Newbie 839 - Game over

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The bottom part of your list is wrong other than me, one or both of the SEs are scum.

[starkmoon]

Del has asked to be replaced.
Skitzo will be replaced if he doesn't post within 72 hours of the prod being sent. (Tuesday Midday GMT)

CSL prodded
Skitzo reminded to post
Raskol messaged to enquire after his health

[Maemuki]

The bottom part of your list is wrong other than me, one or both of the SEs are scum.

Why do you think so?

[CSL]

Sorry, my dad had really important things to do on the comp that took the whole weekend. Trying to get an analysis post done by tonight.

[Raskol]

Still not 100%, but here's something.

EBWOP: If your reasoning that I'm a lurker, I'm sorry to say there is indeed far worse lurkers than me. Why has no one commented on Ibrahmagic's lack of posts, while commenting on mine? Seems like better reasoning could be used here than is.

Blame the next person! Blame him damnit! [/typicalscumbehaviour]

I would bandwagon him, if I believed in that logic! I personally don't feel that your reasoning holds up, so I don't follow it. I want solid fact before I go to lynch someone

Welcome to Mafia. Unless you're a cop/scum, you never know anybody's alignment for sure. Live with it.

Now my vote isn't parked on anyone.

And that will make us believe that you're town...because?

Can you explain what you were doing here, Maemuki?

It seems like you were treating the Tehstefan wagon as a serious wagon, not a random bandwagon on a lurker to get them into the game.

I hope I don't have to explain why that doesn't sit well with me (though I will if I do have to).

[skitzo]

so sorry guys but i have just had a big thing coming up "literally" if you know what i mean?
let me get this straight
you guys actually lynched tehstefan coz he hadnt posted and then he did post and you didnt jump off the wagon?
i dont get that but there might be something with my reasoning?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The bottom part of your list is wrong other than me, one or both of the SEs are scum.

Why do you think so?

The night kill. Newb scum usually guns down an SE or IC at very least you'd expect some power role hunting and as far as I could tell there were no hints from Ibr that he had a power role.

So his kill was likely for one of two reasons or a combination thereof, one, the classic zero information kill we gain basically no knowledge from last night's death. That's a move of a player with some experience and two, it killed a lurker which suggests the player has a vested interest in keeping the game alive. Since this group of newbs other than Bub have shown basically no interest in pushing forward it's much more likely that it was undertaken by one of the SEs who have an interest in the game continuing.

[CSL]

I still have an interest with a few players in this game. There should be a mass prod on players that are inactive that aren't being replaced.

Also, I had to give up the comp while Iwas halfway done with my analysis post, so expect that post shortly, while I motivate myself to do so.

[Maemuki]

So his kill was likely for one of two reasons or a combination thereof, one, the classic zero information kill we gain basically no knowledge from last night's death. That's a move of a player with some experience and two, it killed a lurker which suggests the player has a vested interest in keeping the game alive. Since this group of newbs other than Bub have shown basically no interest in pushing forward it's much more likely that it was undertaken by one of the SEs who have an interest in the game continuing.

Well, makes sense I suppose.

It seems like you were treating the Tehstefan wagon as a serious wagon, not a random bandwagon on a lurker to get them into the game.

I hope I don't have to explain why that doesn't sit well with me (though I will if I do have to).

Good thing that you are better~

Anyways. I wanted to see his reactions to those pseudo-serious questions - and then decide whether to bring stuff to a real wagon, or unvote because he started posting. Which he never did, because he was lynched.



The fact that Raskol is building a case on me when DDD just said what he said strikes me as weird, though. Don't get me wrong, I do not want to OMGUS. But still, something fishy is going on.

[Raskol]

I understand that it looks that way, but it's pure coincidence---I had planned to say something about it since day 1 ended, but with my illness I never got around to it until yesterday.

Anyway, what do you mean, bring stuff to a real wagon?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Glad that you're feeling better Raskol. You've got an excellent point DDD, because both Raskol and Maemuki have tried to keep the game moving in both D-1 and D-2.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Though, DDD, while I do agree with the logic, how is it in a mafian's best interest to keep the game moving?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Though, DDD, while I do agree with the logic, how is it in a mafian's best interest to keep the game moving?

It's not especially beneficial which is why it's that much more likely to come from someone who is invested in the game and the community.

[Maemuki]

Anyway, what do you mean, bring stuff to a real wagon?

I mean - see if was really scummy or not.

[Raskol]

Though, DDD, while I do agree with the logic, how is it in a mafian's best interest to keep the game moving?

It's not especially beneficial which is why it's that much more likely to come from someone who is invested in the game and the community.

That seems pretty weak to me. You're assuming that keeping the game going had something to do with the NK, when there could have been any number of reasons for it.

Also, I don't blame you for this as you can't be expected to incriminate yourself, but I'd like to remind the rest of the players that the point you've made against the SEs applies equally well (in fact, better) to yourself, as an IC.

Anyway, what do you mean, bring stuff to a real wagon?

I mean - see if was really scummy or not.

You haven't struck me in any of your other posts as an aggressive player, so I don't buy this. Why would you fish for reactions in this way for Tehstefan, and not any of the other players?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Though, DDD, while I do agree with the logic, how is it in a mafian's best interest to keep the game moving?

It's not especially beneficial which is why it's that much more likely to come from someone who is invested in the game and the community.

That seems pretty weak to me. You're assuming that keeping the game going had something to do with the NK, when there could have been any number of reasons for it.

No, I said it was one of two possible/partial reasons along with it being a zero information kill.

Ibr wasn't a threat to anyone, he wasn't viewed as pro-town, there's nothing to suggest he was a power role. The two reasons I noted are the only two logical reasons for an Ibr kill and they point to (one of) the SEs having a hand in the affair.

If you've got another possible reason for the kill feel free to share, but I'm not seeing it.

[Raskol]

First of all, just because you don't think there's anything to suggest he's a power role doesn't mean no one could have thought he was. I happen to agree that he didn't seem like a PR, but I'm not going to assume that everyone shares my read.

Second, insofar as Ibrahim did have stances on the game, and he did, we can't simply assume that he wasn't perceived as a threat by anyone. He asked you a question which might have been out of suspicion, and he expressed a clear desire to see Diakron dead---actually, Diakron seemed interested in killing Ibrahim during the day, as well. So there are two people who might potentially have seen him as a threat. Bub Bidderskins also wanted to lynch him, so add him to the list of people who might have wanted him dead.

In addition to all the plausible little stories one can think of, there's also the simple possibility that someone killed him for a reason that wouldn't make any sense to me at all. We have a lot of first timers in this game and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them NK someone for reasons we don't usually see. That's part of why I think this case would be weak even if if your reason really were the only 'logical' one---it's not at all unlikely that the kill was a suboptimal newb play.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

First of all, just because you don't think there's anything to suggest he's a power role doesn't mean no one could have thought he was. I happen to agree that he didn't seem like a PR, but I'm not going to assume that everyone shares my read.

He had three posts, one of them was his RVS post, another was a single question directed to me. If you're going to tell me that it's possible that someone found a PR tell in his posts then I'm going to say that you've passed from improbability to impossibility just so you can disagree with me.

Second, insofar as Ibrahim did have stances on the game, and he did, we can't simply assume that he wasn't perceived as a threat by anyone. He asked you a question which might have been out of suspicion, and he expressed a clear desire to see Diakron dead---actually, Diakron seemed interested in killing Ibrahim during the day, as well. So there are two people who might potentially have seen him as a threat. Bub Bidderskins also wanted to lynch him, so add him to the list of people who might have wanted him dead.

Diakron was replaced either before night began officially or overnight by CSL, so Diakron couldn't have had any say in the NK. And why would scum Bub kill Ibrahim, you don't generally kill those you think you can secure a mislynch of.

In addition to all the plausible little stories one can think of, there's also the simple possibility that someone killed him for a reason that wouldn't make any sense to me at all. We have a lot of first timers in this game and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them NK someone for reasons we don't usually see. That's part of why I think this case would be weak even if if your reason really were the only 'logical' one---it's not at all unlikely that the kill was a suboptimal newb play.

Don't give me that Raskol, at this level this isn't a tricky game. There are a few basic reasons you kill someone in this game and occasionally a few WIFOM counters to those. Most of those don't fit so the reasons I supplied are likely correct. When you eliminate the impossible, whatever left, however improbable must be the truth.

[Raskol]

He had three posts, one of them was his RVS post, another was a single question directed to me. If you're going to tell me that it's possible that someone found a PR tell in his posts then I'm going to say that you've passed from improbability to impossibility just so you can disagree with me.

Some people would say that such lack of activity itself is a PR tell. I know for a fact that the wiki, for example, gives that impression, which is something newbies may follow.

Diakron was replaced either before night began officially or overnight by CSL, so Diakron couldn't have had any say in the NK.

A replacement has the same reason to fear those who wanted to kill the person they replace as the person they replaced would have. Null point.

And why would scum Bub kill Ibrahim, you don't generally kill those you think you can secure a mislynch of.

He tried to get Ibrahimagic lynched and found no support. So this actually strengthens my point: thank you.

There are a few basic reasons you kill someone in this game and occasionally a few WIFOM counters to those.

Which newbies (especially first timers) are more likely than anyone else to be unfamiliar with.

In any case, I don't think turning the game into a discussion on this is terribly useful. If you want to regard your thoughts about the NK as a reason to distrust the experienced players, fine. I've pointed out why I think it's weak, and that any strength it does carry applies to you as well, which is all I really have to say about it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Mod: Another round of prods and replacements... plz.

Well then Raskol, since you've so enjoyed tearing down my theories who do you believe to be scum and why?

[Raskol]

Well, I'm waiting for a response from her before I vote, but I'm going for Maemuki atm, because of that post and her explanations for it, and the incongruence of both of those with the rest of the game she's played.

I also feel like the game is stalling, though. There are a lot of people I simply haven't heard enough from.

[Bub Bidderskins]

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever left, however improbable must be the truth.

But is a noobie voting for a random reason impossible? I find that an SE is just as likely to be mafia at this point as a newbie. They may not know who to kill or why to kill. I thought that it would be in favour of a mafian to kill somebody who was contributing. And the way this game is going, that might be enough to let it coast right up to the deadline.

Oh, and Del. If you're out there. Why did you come in for no reason and give an L-1 vote in D-1? Why?

[starkmoon]

Feeres replaces Del

votecount will be here once I've finished it. (or y'know I'll forget I put in a placeholder)

[starkmoon]

CSL
skitzo
Bub Bidderskins 1 Maemuki
Del 2 Debonair Danny DiPietro, Bub Bidderskins
Raskol
Maemuki
Debonair Danny DiPietro


Not Voting

CSL
skitzo
Del
Raskol

[starkmoon]

Prodded

skitzo
maemuki
CSL