Newbie 841 - Game over!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

You awaken to the hustle and bustle of your home town’s daily activity. Little did you know that the peaceful quiet of your normal, everyday life would come crashing down today. It seems that one of your fellow citizens has angered the Mob, and has paid for it with his life! What are you going to do? Why, you’re going to get your peaceful, little town back, that’s what…

Your job, fair citizens of the town’s Ruling Council, is to discover who among you belong to the Mafia and summarily lynch them. Two of your fellow Council members are working for the Mafia - find them before they take over the Council and the town!

Living Players (1)

-

Confirmed players are in bold.

PaltryExcuse

,

Mafia Goon

The IC(s) are here to help you learn to play the game. Their play is governed by the wiki article Being a good IC.

Dead Players (8)

RayFrost

(replaced OMGLyncher),

Townie

, lynched Day 1

MiteyMouse (SE)

,

Townie

, killed Night 1

almightybob (SE)

(replaced DeathNote),

Mafia Roleblocker

, lynched Day 2

Albert B. Rampage

(replaced Mafia_failure),

Doctor

, killed Night 2

Pablo Molinero (IC)

,

Townie

, lynched Day 3

Tororingu-chan

,

Cop

, killed Night 3

havingfitz

(replaced CancerBottle during confirmation),

Townie

, lynched Day 4

Starbuck

(replaced ronnieroo),

Townie

, killed in Endgame

PaltryExcuse

won the game for the

Mafia

team!!

Game Links

Day 1 Lynch | Day 2 Lynch | Day 3 Lynch | Day 4 Lynch

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Game Rules:

General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
   
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.
   
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to me by the posted deadline. If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions.
   
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
   
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
   
6. In order for all players to play at least one game day this game will start with a Day phase. Communication outside the thread (if your role specifically allows it) is allowed until the game begins.
   
7. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
   
8. All Newbie games have strict 3-week deadlines.
   Extensions are given only in extreme circumstances.

Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. A simple majority of all living members must agree on one person for a Lynch to occur (simple majority = ½ # of living players +1, rounded down).
   
2. Votes should be bolded or they may not be counted (e.g.
   Vote: Player
   ).
   
3. Vote revocations should be bolded or they may not be counted (e.g.
   Unvote: Player
   or
   Unvote
   ). Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
   
4. You may
   Vote: No Lynch
   - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a Lynch.
   
5. Votes/Unvotes that are bolded correctly and are unambiguous (with respect to player nicknames/abbreviations) will count.
   
6. At deadline, ½ the original number of votes will be required for a lynch. In the case of a tie, the person who first received the required number of votes will be lynched. If this number is not met, a No Lynch will occur.
   There will be no reduced number of votes in LyLo.
   
   
7. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.
   
8. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; the lynched player may not post during twilight but all other living players may continue to post.
   
9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post except for a brief “Bah!”-type post.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Red
   or
   Purple
   text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed.
   
2. Votecounts will be posted once per page or once per day, whichever is less.
   
3. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
   
4. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
   
5. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
   
   
6. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request or on the 4th day of no activity. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to possible replacement without further notice.
   
7. Rules violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill. Modkills may be accompanied by a change to day/night.
   
8. Any situation not explicitly covered above is subject to Mod discretion and will be handled as the Mod sees fit on a case-by-case basis.
   
9. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.
   Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Helpful Links:

• Main Wiki Page
  
• Newbie Guide
  
• Frequently Asked Questions
  
• Commonly Used Abbreviations
  
• Mafia Theory

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

The F11 setup is the current game format used in Newbie games. To prevent the development of game-breaking strategies, these Newbie Games are Semi-Open, wherein the actual game setup is randomly chosen from one of four possible setups as detailed below:

• 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Sane Doctor, 5 Townies
  
• 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies
  
• 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies
  
• 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Doctor, 6 Townies

If either of the first two setups are in play, and the situation occurs where the Goon is lynched first, the Roleblocker will still be able to submit both night kills and roleblocks (roleblocking is a function of the Roleblocker; night kills are a function of the scum team as a whole).

These are the Role PMs that have potentially been sent to the players:

Mafia-Aligned players:

Mafia Goon:

You are a member of the Mafia along with your partner,

name

. Since your plot to quietly overtake the town has failed, you will attempt take it by force by eliminating the others until you outnumber the populace.

• During the day, try to blend in with the normal Townies, and attempt to get someone lynched.
  
• During the NIGHT cycle ONLY, you may talk with your fellow Mafia (via PM) and choose another player in the town to kill that night.
  
• You may communicate privately with your fellow Mafia up until the game thread is opened. Once the game begins, all outside communication must cease until the night cycle.
  
• You win when the number of Mafia equals or exceeds the number of remaining Town players, whether you survive to the end or not.

Mafia Roleblocker:

You are a member of the Mafia along with your partner,

name

. Since your plot to quietly overtake the town has failed, you will attempt take it by force by eliminating the others until you outnumber the populace.

• During the day, try to blend in with the normal Townies, and attempt to get someone lynched.
  
• As a Roleblocker, you have the ability to distract any player throughout the night, effectively negating their night ability, if they have one.
  
• Send the moderator a PM with your choice of player that you want to block. If they have a Night action, it will have no effect. You will not be informed as to whether your roleblock worked or not.
  
• During the NIGHT cycle ONLY, you may talk with your fellow Mafia (via PM) and choose another player in the town to kill that night.
  
• You may communicate privately with your fellow Mafia up until the game thread is opened. Once the game begins, all outside communication must cease until the night cycle.
  
• You win when the number of Mafia equals or exceeds the number of remaining Town players, whether you survive to the end or not.

Town-Aligned players:

Townie:

You are a normal townsperson, trying to make a living and survive this insanity.

• You have no abilities at Night other than getting a good night's rest.
  
• Although you do not have any special abilities, your voice and vote are powerful weapons in their own right. Use them to your best advantage!
  
• At no time may you privately communicate with any other player.
  
• You win when all the Mafia players are gone, whether you survive to the end or not.

Cop:

You are the local law enforcement, and can tell the good guys from the bad.

• Each NIGHT, you may send the moderator a PM with your choice of player that you want to investigate.
  
• The Moderator will inform you as to that person’s guilt or innocence.
  
• At no time may you privately communicate with any other player.
  
• In a Newbie game, you will always get a correct result (no sanity issues).
  
• You win when all the Mafia players are gone, whether you survive to the end or not.

Doctor:

You are the local physician, and can protect people from harm.

• Each NIGHT, you may send the moderator a PM with your choice of player that you want to protect.
  
• If someone attempts to kill that player during the Night, they will be spared.
  
• You may not protect yourself.
  
• At no time may you privately communicate with any other player.
  
• In a Newbie game, your protection target will always live through the night (no quacks).
  
• You win when all the Mafia players are gone, whether you survive to the end or not.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

All players have confirmed and Day 1 is a go!

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Lynch. Deadline for Day 1 is the end of Thursday, October 1.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

My apologies for not getting a vote count done sooner. I was out of town Friday house-hunting and haven't had a chance to get on the interwebz until now.

Official Vote Count

OMGLyncher - 1 (Pablo Molinero)
Tororingu-chan - 1 (PaltryExcuse)

DeathNote - 1 (Mafia_failure)

ronnieroo - 1 (MiteyMouse)

Not Voting - 5 (DeathNote, havingfitz, OMGLyncher, ronnieroo, Tororingu-chan)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Thursday, October 1.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

My apologies for not getting a vote count done sooner. I was out of town Friday house-hunting and haven't had a chance to get on the interwebz until now.

Official Vote Count

OMGLyncher - 2 (Pablo Molinero, Tororingu-chan)

ronnieroo - 1 (MiteyMouse)

Not Voting - 6 (DeathNote, havingfitz, Mafia_failure, OMGLyncher, PaltryExcuse, ronnieroo)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Thursday, October 1.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Prodding Mafia and OMG.

Sorry guys, the weekends are bad for me right now for modding as we're focusing a lot of time on trying to get things packed up. Please note that I am moving the first weekend of October, which is also the Day 1 deadline. I may not be able to move the game to Night until Monday the 5th if you go to deadline, although I will try to do so.

If someone disappears between now and Oct. 5, please PM me to ensure I get to it ASAP.

Thanks for your patience.



Official Vote Count

OMGLyncher - 3 (Pablo Molinero, Tororingu-chan, DeathNote)

Not Voting - 6 (havingfitz, Mafia_failure, MiteyMouse, OMGLyncher, PaltryExcuse, ronnieroo)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Thursday, October 1.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Replacing Mafia_failure and OMG

.


Albert B. Rampage replaces M_f and RayFrost replaces OMG.



Official Vote Count

RayFrost - 3 (Tororingu-chan, DeathNote, havingfitz)

havingfitz - 1 (Pablo Molinero)

Not Voting - 5 (Albert B. Rampage, MiteyMouse, PaltryExcuse, RayFrost, ronnieroo)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Thursday, October 1.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

RayFrost - 4 (Tororingu-chan, PaltryExcuse, DeathNote, Albert B. Rampage)

havingfitz - 2 (Pablo Molinero, MiteyMouse)
Pablo Molinero - 1 (RayFrost)

Not Voting - 2 (havingfitz, ronnieroo)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Thursday, October 1.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Final Day 1 Vote Count

RayFrost - 5 (Tororingu-chan, PaltryExcuse, DeathNote, Albert B. Rampage, havingfitz)

havingfitz - 2 (Pablo Molinero, MiteyMouse)
Pablo Molinero - 1 (RayFrost)

Not Voting - 1 (ronnieroo)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Thursday, October 1.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Ray's final arguments are not enough to save him from the noose. Hopefully the remaining members of the Council can root out the Mafia and avenge his death.

RayFrost,

Townie

, lynched Day 1

Night has begun. Those of you with night actions must submit your choices before October 2.

I will get the game opened ASAP, hopefully before I pack up the computer on Friday morning.

Mafia and any Town PRs are encouraged to get their night choices in sooner rather than later so that you don't have to wait until next week for the game to restart.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

MiteyMouse takes one for the team, spilling her blood across the polished marble floor of the Council chambers. Hopefully her death can be avenged!

MiteyMouse,

Townie

, killed Night 1

Day 2 has begun. With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is the end of Wednesday, October 21.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

NOTE: I am going offline starting Thursday, October 1 until further notice for a move down to North Carolina. If anything happens between now and then, please be patient and I am going to try to get back by the 5th at the latest.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (havingfitz)

Not Voting - 6 (Albert B. Rampage, DeathNote, Pablo Molinero, PaltryExcuse, ronnieroo, Tororingu-chan)

4 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Tuesday, October 27.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

DeathNote has requested replacement.



Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (havingfitz)

DeathNote - 1 (Tororingu-chan)

Not Voting - 5 (Albert B. Rampage, DeathNote, Pablo Molinero, PaltryExcuse, ronnieroo)

4 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Tuesday, October 27.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

...

Did he give a reason, VRK?

His reason was that he forgot about this game and then was disappointed when, after being prodded, he only saw wall posts with little content.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

almightybob replaces DeathNote.

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (havingfitz)

almightybob - 1 (Tororingu-chan)

Not Voting - 5 (Albert B. Rampage, almightybob, Pablo Molinero, PaltryExcuse, ronnieroo)

4 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Tuesday, October 27.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (havingfitz)

almightybob - 1 (Tororingu-chan)
havingfitz - 1 (Albert B. Rampage)

Not Voting - 4 (almightybob, Pablo Molinero, PaltryExcuse, ronnieroo)

4 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Tuesday, October 27.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

almightybob - 4 (Albert B. Rampage, havingfitz, almightybob, Pablo Molinero)

Not Voting - 3 (PaltryExcuse, ronnieroo, Tororingu-chan)

4 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Tuesday, October 27.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Tororingu-chan drops her badge on the table of the Council hall. The remaining Council members immediately grab her named suspect, almightybob, and hand him over to the mob to be hanged.

The days are looking brighter, considering which of the Mafia the Council found...

almightybob,

Mafia Roleblocker

, lynched Day 2

Night has begun. Those of you with night actions must submit your choices before Sunday, October 18.


ronnieroo has requested replacement.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

The sun rises, and with it the six remaining Council members do the same.

Wait, did I say six? Silly me....

Albert B. Rampage,

Doctor

, killed Night 2

Day 3 has begun. With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Deadline is the end of Sunday, November 8.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Starbuck replaces ronnieroo.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (PaltryExcuse)

Not Voting - 4 (havingfitz, Pablo Molinero, Starbuck, Tororingu-chan)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, November 8.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (PaltryExcuse)

PaltryExcuse - 1 (Pablo Molinero)


Not Voting - 3 (havingfitz, Starbuck, Tororingu-chan)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, November 8.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Vel.....can you prod Starbuck?

Her role is pivitol (if we don't get today's vote right) and she has only made two very short introductory posts since replacing Ronnieroo last Tuesday. And it's been 70+ hrs since her last one.

Will do, as soon as I get home (at a wedding this weekend). Should be tonight.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Question for the more experienced players....when you are provided your roles at the beginning of the game...if you are Mafia and your game has a Mafia Roleblocker and a Mafia Goon like our does....are you informed that your scum partner is a Roleblocker if you are the Goon or would the only way you know your partner was a Roleblocker if he/she told you during your night PMs to each other?

This is dependent on the Mod, but most Mods tell you your partner's role as well as yours if you are Mafia.

Yes, in my games the Mafia members know each others roles without having to talk to one another.

For future games, I am going to update my role PMs post (post 2) to reflect this information. Thanks fitz.

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (PaltryExcuse)

PaltryExcuse - 1 (Pablo Molinero)


Not Voting - 3 (havingfitz, Starbuck, Tororingu-chan)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, November 8.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (havingfitz)

havingfitz - 2 (Starbuck, Pablo Molinero)

Not Voting - 2 (PaltryExcuse, Tororingu-chan)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, November 8.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

:arrow: Going back to the D2 fitz vs Pablo... maybe it's just me, but why is hypocrisy a scumtell? o_O;; I don't get it. havingfitz made a pretty bad case against Pablo,

but you don't lynch people for making bad cases, especially not in newbie games. =_=;

Admittedly I paid the exchange less attention than I should have since I had a guilty on DeathNote and was planning to claim.

Actually, that's a reliable scumtell pretty much everywhere on site.

Scum must try to lynch town. Scum have to make cases against townies in where they (the scum) know their basic premise (lynching scum) is inheriently false. This breeds cases based on falsehoods and reaching logic and these are identified as "bad" cases. Therefore these cases are more likely used by scum.

Now, yes, there are times when scum can use legit cases against people who unwittingly commit scumtells and there are also times when townies just don't "get it" and use bad cases because they're trying too hard, but

as a whole

the probability of someone using a bad case is more likely to be scum.

You follow?

Hence this is a scumtell - something that scum do more often than town.

-Vel

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (havingfitz)

havingfitz - 2 (Starbuck, Pablo Molinero)

Not Voting - 2 (PaltryExcuse, Tororingu-chan)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, November 8.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (havingfitz)

havingfitz - 2 (Starbuck, Pablo Molinero)

Not Voting - 2 (PaltryExcuse, Tororingu-chan)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, November 8.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

OK let's curtail this discussion for now.

fitz, I'm with Starbuck and Pablo - I have NO idea where you're getting this idea from, but no it's not disallowed. Her being in the military (or anyone being at any job for that matter) has no bearing whatsoever on the game or this website so I don't understand why you'd even consider asking.

I agree with you that Starbuck should have just answered the question outright (

hint, hint, Starbuck

) but I can see exactly why she didn't. I had the same reaction she did when I read the question.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (havingfitz, PaltryExcuse, Tororingu-chan)

havingfitz - 2 (Starbuck, Pablo Molinero)

Not Voting - 0 ()

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, November 8.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

After a bad case of hyper-focusing and tunnel vision, the town decides to lynch Pablo because...honestly, I don't remember. There was so much stuff in there my eyes glazed over pages ago

Pablo Molinero,

Townie

, lynched Day 3

Night has begun. Those of you with night actions must submit your choices before Tuesday, November 3.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

As expected, Toror does not survive the night. The remaining unconfirmed Council members turn their eyes towards Starbuck, and prepare their cases against one another as the fate of the town hangs in the balance.

Tororingu-chan,

Cop

, killed Night 3

Day 4 has begun. With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Deadline is the end of Monday, November 23.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Final Vote Count

havingfitz - 2 (Starbuck, PaltryExcuse)

Not Voting - 1 (havingfitz)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Monday, November 23.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Discussion?!? We don' need no stinkin' discussion!!!


That's what you think!

havingfitz,

Townie

, lynched Day 4

Starbuck,

Townie

, killed in Engame

PaltryExcuse

wins the game for the

Mafia

team!!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Role Reveal:

havingfitz (CancerBottle) [col]Townie almightybob ^ (DeathNote ^) [col]Mafia Roleblocker Albert B. Rampage (Mafia_failure) [col]Doc MiteyMouse ^ [col]Townie RayFrost (OMGLyncher) [col]Townie Pablo Molinero * [col]Townie PaltryExcuse [col]Mafia Goon Starbuck (ronnieroo) [col]Townie Tororingu-chan [col]Cop

---

Night Actions:

Night 1:

DeathNote blocks ronnieroo.
ABR protects Pablo Molinero.
PaltryExcuse kills MiteyMouse.
Toro investigates DeathNote.

Night 2:

ABR protects Tororingu-chan.
PaltryExcuse kills ABR.
Toro investigates ronnieroo.

Night 3:

PaltryExcuse kills Tororingu-chan.
Toro misses deadline.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Everyone should use this time to post thoughts and observations about the game. Ask questions and try to figure out what went wrong (and right) with your play and how you can learn from it and improve. Be polite in pointing out mistakes made by others! Conversely, if someone points something out, learn from it – don’t get offended!!

My Observations

:

Post 538:

Ah, I guess that depends on opinion then~~ ^_^ I should think that anyone wouldn't want to die at this stage.... >_>;;

Bad assumption. This is a common misconception in Mafia – I have to stay alive to help my team. Due to the numbers, it is actually less necessary for a Townie to “need” to stay alive than a Mafia. In fact, it is usually the better option for the Townie to get lynched out of the game, especially if it will eliminate him as a possible suspect going forward. This is especially true when the Townie has done a lot of scummy things and the scum are likely to use him as a scapegoat if he survives until the endgame.
This is even worse with new players who are given power roles (cop, doc, etc.). They mistakenly believe that the Town can’t possibly win without them, so if they do something scummy they tend to dig themselves in deeper trying to hide their PR status, making themselves more of a target and distracting the Town from finding a Mafia. If you screw up so badly that you’re distracting the Town from finding scum, I believe your best bet is to get lynched and give the Town a chance tomorrow.
By no means should you just roll over and admit defeat – fight like hell. Make the scum work to lynch you. That way it may be easier to find them later on by the veracity they needed to use to push your case.
It’s a balancing act, and it gets easier with time.

@Toro: Don't EVER fail to submit a Night action as a Town PR just because you think you're going to be killed. What would have happened if Paltry hadn't gotten his kill in before the deadline? It has happened!!

You had a good game for your first. There are some rough patches in your logic, but overall you did a great job as the Cop.

In the future, when you get a guilty result, you may want to consider asking pointed questions about how the guilty person feels about the other players, and make him/her answer in SPECIFICS. You need to do as much as possible to get him/her to either narrow down the field, or out his/her partner completely.


@Starbuck: You should know better than to throw a vote in LyLo without letting everyone speak. LONG DAYS = GOOD FOR TOWN.

VERY poor play - tunnel vision lost the game for the town after your cop did an excellent job of putting the town in a FANTASTIC position to win the game.

Day 3 was a giant clusterfuck, and you should have taken the time to have a discussion. You may have gotten something that made you reconsider your position.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

In fact, it is usually the better option for the Townie to get lynched out of the game, especially if it will eliminate him as a possible suspect going forward. This is especially true when the Townie has done a lot of scummy things and the scum are likely to use him as a scapegoat if he survives until the endgame.
......................If you screw up so badly that you’re distracting the Town from finding scum, I believe your best bet is to get lynched and give the Town a chance tomorrow.
By no means should you just roll over and admit defeat – fight like hell. Make the scum work to lynch you.

Just re-read this. I fought like hell too long after having admittedly a lot of scummy actions that could point suspicion on me. Even with the fight like hell push I wish I had deferred to the lynch on day three since the lynch on day four was more of a foregone conclusion than I imagined it could/would be.

No I think you played correctly. ABR put it bluntly above, but nevertheless it is true: Starbuck should not have rushed to the lynch on Day 4. She had a horrible case of tunnel vision and it worked in PE's favor.

PE never got examined for his fence-sitting and lack of commitment, and I think if Starbuck, who I believe is an extremely thorough player normally, would have not jumped the gun and gone back and re-read the game she would have seen it.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Paltry...re: my questions about when mafia knows their partner role. Since you knew DN was a roleblocker did that 50-50 chance there was a cop and doc affect your play any...did you suspect TC was a cop and did it cause you to try and distance yourself from almightybob/DN? Why did you NK ABR?

I'm not so sure it does affect your play. It probably makes you PR hunt a bit more, but as scum you have certain priorities: don't look scummy, and act like a Townie and go after anyone else who does look scummy, including your partner.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Thanks to both of you by the way for the compliments. I just have to figure out what it means to be 'too townie' or how that translates to my gameplay.

Too Townie

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

As for the allegiance question...I am also in the military and earlier in the game I had almost mentioned something in that regard. I didn't because of this line in the rules:

Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes

threats, bribes, wagers, promises,

alliances

, etc.

My question to you was not intended to 'start anything' or infer anything negative. Since you had mentioned your military affiliation (which I took as an allegiance ... or as te rule mentions, alliance) I was simply asking for your take on the rule. I thought you had played a bit longer than you have so maybe I should have just posed it directly to the IC or VRK but I think that would have come across worse than just asking you. That went wrong.

Ah that rule. I was wondering what you were talking about! I believe, in that context, it is more aimed towards blackballing someone on the site ("vote how I tell you or I'll make sure you never play in another one of VRK's games again").

Using your alliances

on the site

to influence how others play. As stated, outside allegiances have nothing to do with MS.net.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Thanks for the link, VRK. It's probably my playstyle that makes me look townie. However, I really want to actually play town so I know how I'll act then. Hrmm...

Better not act too differently! Sucks to lose due to meta.

As you go forward, you'll hear talk about people's meta - if you've ever played a pen and paper RPG you'll understand the term. Basically it's a way of analyzing someone's play to determine whether they're town or not.

Everyone plays differently when they're scum as opposed to town. In the good players, the difference is almost unnoticeable. By analyzing how someone has played before, you can use that information to determine whether they're town or scum this time around.

So your best bet is to try to play the same way every time. As a newbie, it's going to be a few games until you begin to establish a meta, because most newbies tend to change their style naturally as they get more comfortable with the game. Try to aim for minimizing the differences now, while you're still fresh to the game and you're ideas and concepts are still malleable. It's very difficult to change a meta later, because you have to retrain habits that you've established over time.

From day 1, you should always think, regardless of alignment, "If I was Town, what would I do in this situation?". Granted, 70 - 80% of the time this is going to be a moot thought, because you will be town aligned. However, it will go a long way towards making your scum play mimic your Town play as closely as possible, which is what you really want to do.

No one can completely make their scum play match their town play - the two roles are diametrically opposite, and there are things that you must do as scum that you'd never do as town. So everyone will have some sort of meta, because this opposition is what the meta springs from. The really good players can mask it well enough that a meta analysis of their play is a wash.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

It hit me that we were in LYLO when I was at dinner.

You're saying you didn't realize we were in LYLO when you made your vote? I don't believe that for one second. Even I will give you more credit than that. You were just set on voting me. Even if we weren't in LYLO that quick a vote was uncalled for. You just pulled the rug out of ~seven weeks of the town's efforts. Admit it.

Ok this is unnecessary - take it easy fitz. You're not a mind reader, so I think benefit of the doubt is due here.

I see this from both sides, and I wasn't emotionally involved in the game as the Mod. This is coming dangerously close to taking this situaiton personally, which is against the rules in every Mafia game on this site, yet happens all too frequently. You guys are here to have fun and not take things personally. Time to apologize and let things go.

Did Starbuck screw up? Yep, she did, and she'll probably never do it again for what that's worth. But you're screwing up just as bad by hounding her for it.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I don't recall exactly, but was Pablo's non-response due to being asked directly what he thought, or that he just never commented on it?

If it's that he just never commented, then I think the scummiest move goes for the wishy-washy accusation. Being asked a direct question should always generate a response, and I don't think you should stop asking until you get an answer. Wishy-washy is a scum hallmark. Scum have to fence sit to leave their options open for the next day.

A good scumtell is someone who is wishy-washy suddenly takes a stand later in the game. Their options have narrowed down and now they have to push for a particular lynch outcome. That happened in this game (re: PE's sudden interest in Pablo on Day 3), and I've seen it a lot in other games.

I think the easier question to answer is the reverse - which of the three was the most town-tell. For a Newbie game, fitz defense of someone moves him up on the Town scale for me. It's not a scumtell to defend someone, as long as the attacks are crappy or bad logic. In that case, you're actually defending someone by showing that their attacker's logic is incorrect. Now, the person may still be scum, but I don't think that using bad logic to catch them is the way to go about it. This helps focus the town on catching scum using good logic, and since you're trying to watch out for the town's best interests, and not one specific player, that makes you more likely to be Town.

Combine that with the fact that fitz is a newbie (it's only his 2nd game?) and this actually becomes a wash for me. Newbies don't know any better, and they sure as hell don't think about the ramifications of their actions for "tomorrow". There are a host of questions that are situational - is the player being attacked acting scummy? What's the experience level of the defending player? Are the attacks good? Are they coming from another noob or a more experienced player? Even with DN acting noticeably scummy and fitz defending him, that would be a newbie scum mistake, and fitz should have been on the chopping block immediately. He also should have been the investigation target on Night 2 (hint, hint T-chan!!!).

I think a big issue was ronnie lurking and then flaking when she did - it really caused T-chan to waste an investigation to try to get alignment information on someone who was lurking. This is a great example of how lurking can really kill your team's chances.

If this were to happen in a mini or large game, where there are experienced players, red flags would fly all over the place, but in a Newbie game I think this is more of a null-tell.

This post turned into a lot of random thoughts. Hope it's cohesive enough!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

So, in your opinion VRK (or anyone else) on the topic of the T-chan v. Bob situation, is Pablo's non-response on the case, fitz's defense of DN, or my wishy-washy accusation the most telling of scumminess?

Pablo's non-response: Town-me would have found strange that he didn't comment at all, but not neccessarily indicative of scum.

Exactly.

Fitz's defence: I would have found more scummy, since it came before the cop claim and so perhaps would have been scumfitz trying to easy pressure on his scumbuddy.

Your accusation: I take it you mean this?

@Bob: I think the major problem with your argument as of right now is that one post. It's still making you look suspicious in my eyes. On the other hand, the volume of posts where DeathNote points towards NewbScum is a plus on your side. I'm watching you.

Town-me wouldn't have seen that as scummy at the time, it seems as if you've considered the initial argument and my responses. And on reread if Town-me became suspicious by it, I would have probably been appeased by the fact that you put DN as your top scum suspect at the start of D2.

Of the three, Town-me would have probably found fitz's reaction to be scummiest.

/agree. And I think that the Town as a whole made a big error in not lynching fitz on Day 3. Starbuck is not the only one guilty of tunnel vision this game, as the Pablo wagon was led by T-chan. The rest of you played sheep and it worked out for the scum in the end.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Starbuck is not the only one guilty of tunnel vision this game, as the Pablo wagon was led by T-chan.

I think I aided in making sure T-chan was thinking a Pablo lynch was a good lynch.

Possibly. But we won't know until T-chan posts. If T-chan was more experienced I don't think you'd have been able to influence her. Nicely done though!

VRK - Did I have any ground to stand on when bringing up the Day 1 townie-lynch (which fitz/PE both were both a part of and I was not)?

I understand why you did it, but I had the benefit of knowing roles. I think to the uninformed majority it looked like you were trying to cast suspicion elsewhere, and I think that's the way I would have taken it had I been a player.

I still think the case on you was much weaker than the one on fitz. Sorry fitz, but that's just your inexperience talking. It will improve


RE: Toro's alt status - if T-chan is an alt, it's not showing up on an IP search, which is why she was placed as a new player instead of an SE.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

It hit me that we were in LYLO when I was at dinner.

You're saying you didn't realize we were in LYLO when you made your vote? I don't believe that for one second. Even I will give you more credit than that. You were just set on voting me. Even if we weren't in LYLO that quick a vote was uncalled for. You just pulled the rug out of ~seven weeks of the town's efforts. Admit it.

Ok this is unnecessary - take it easy fitz. You're not a mind reader, so I think benefit of the doubt is due here.

Agreed...I'm not a mind reader.

I agree it would be good to hear from Starbuck...especially since we now know she is town and is set to play the deciding vote in Day 4 if we don't get it right today. Please get into the game Starbuck....

You did replace confirmed town and if this game goes to day four....you hold the deciding vote.

Her role is pivitol (if we don't get today's vote right)

I just hope we're right on Pablo and he flips scum since Starbuck has her sights locked on me and if she's forced to choose between me and Paltry on day four....Paltry will have played a good game and scum will be in line to win.

-- If Pablo is being truthful with his last post...at least give me the courtesy of making my case on Paltry before you go through with your chiseled in stone vote for me.
I'll wait to go to the trouble until VRK confirms but we have all put too much effort into this game to see it go down as a quick loss to scum.

.... Nope, you guys are going into LyLo. Good luck, Starbuck.

I admit I'm frustrated at the way day three transpired and day four started but I at least think Starbuck should elaborate on what her thought processes were and not attribute the day four quick vote to not knowing we were in LYLO. And there is no need to call anyone names. I'm not trying to make anything personal...I've giving my opinion on game events.

I'm enjoying everyone's post game comments and hope to file them away and would be just as interested in SB's if they had any content to them. Sorry and I forgot isn't a whole lot to take away from the key player at game's end.

I've enjoyed both games I have played in but there is more room for improvement (for me) than I care to admit.

I can understand the frustration, but that post was very, very aggressive and it did border on getting personal. There were a lot of tempers flaring Day 3, and I possibly should have given the Night cycle another 24 hours to let everyone cool off further.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

This is just a historical question, but has there ever been a 2-post final day before?

Yes. I don't have a game number for you, but I have seen

at least

one.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Last post.