/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832

[Nuwen]

/facepalm @ floor moving fail.

Lock: Green

(You're still on Green, right FL?)

This game still gives me a massive headache. Consider this one of those annoying "I'll read and post... sometime" posts.

[forbiddanlight]

/facepalm @ floor moving fail.

Lock: Green (You're still on Green, right FL?)

To the latter, correct.

To the former, you don't know that.

It's possibly implied, but I respectfully ask that that layer of WIFOM be maintained for the time being.

[Battousai]

Minor suspicion- TDC, DDD, Nuwen

Uncomfortable with the idea as scum- Elmo

Townie- FL, Goat waffling with Gurgi

Voted for: Batt, Nuwen.

Elmo

With a minor suspicion, I would think scum would feel safe taking him out as his suspicion was only minor. Less probable that FL, Goat, or Gurgi would want Patrick dead, as a player that has marked you as townie is an asset. I would say the most probable killer was Nuwen (minor suspicion and was voted for) or someone who wanted to frame Nuwen.

[forbiddanlight]

With a minor suspicion, I would think scum would feel safe taking him out as his suspicion was only minor. Less probable that FL, Goat, or Gurgi would want Patrick dead, as a player that has marked you as townie is an asset. I would say the most probable killer was Nuwen (minor suspicion and was voted for) or someone who wanted to frame Nuwen.

Alternate interpretation. Elmo makes sense as a killer since Patrick is good at reading her. Or Elmo was framed.

But, in the end the X is the killer or someone framed X WIFOM gets us nowhere.

[SpyreX]

Or the fact that Patrick was, ya know, pretty damn town while not being an obvious protection target.

Regardless, we're kind of a bit too mellow. Down for Nuwen at this point. Starting to get itchy over Gurgi a little.

[Nuwen]

Or the fact that Patrick was, ya know, pretty damn town while not being an obvious protection target.

This. Suggesting any type of frame job requires information the collective town simply doesn't have to confirm right now. Occam's Razor this one. Patrick always oozes towniness.

[Battousai]

With a minor suspicion, I would think scum would feel safe taking him out as his suspicion was only minor. Less probable that FL, Goat, or Gurgi would want Patrick dead, as a player that has marked you as townie is an asset. I would say the most probable killer was Nuwen (minor suspicion and was voted for) or someone who wanted to frame Nuwen.

Alternate interpretation. Elmo makes sense as a killer since Patrick is good at reading her. Or Elmo was framed.

But, in the end the X is the killer or someone framed X WIFOM gets us nowhere.

It is not total WIFOM. With past actions, a player can predict what happened the last night by using it as a tool to figure out which side of the WIFOM is the most likely scenerio.

So... Which scenerio with Elmo do you find most probable, and what has lead you to believe this?

I would think that Nuwen killing Patrick is more likely than Nuwen being framed, based on Nuwen's D1 reaction to the Elmo wagon. The reaction has shown Nuwen to be, well, less cautious or show less discretion in acting scummy.

[Nuwen]

The reaction has shown Nuwen to be, well, less cautious or show less discretion in acting scummy.

Is scum or town player is more likely to be conscientious about his or her appearance? Are the chances equal, but for different reasons? Which faction has incentive to walk on eggshells?

[Battousai]

The reaction has shown Nuwen to be, well, less cautious or show less discretion in acting scummy.

Is scum or town player is more likely to be conscientious about his or her appearance? Are the chances equal, but for different reasons? Which faction has incentive to walk on eggshells?

Both factions, IMO, try not to get lynched. Plain and simple. Since you acted less cautious, I said it was more likely you killed Patrick over being framed as I feel you wouldn't be shy killing someone who found you scummy.

[Lord Gurgi]

Patrick is one of those that I would lynch for not dying Night One. So, I don't think it's particularly shocking he's dead, nor indicative of anything about Nuwen.

[Lord Gurgi]

Also, SpyreX, itchy about what?

[SpyreX]

I can't even pin it down. You just seem too go with the flow.

[SpyreX]

Its just an itch and I'm not pushing on it until I can pin down what needs to be scratched, but its there.

[Lord Gurgi]

Let me know if you figure it out. I don't think I was going with the flow when the Elmo lynch was gathering steam, honestly, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[SpyreX]

Ohh I will. It could just be brain damage but something seems off. Of course there's some hypocrisy there because I've been off too.

However, still far more comfortable with Nu. Or, even Batt.

[forbiddanlight]

So... Which scenerio with Elmo do you find most probable, and what has lead you to believe this?

Dunno, don't care. Not enough info, waste of time to discuss.

This. Suggesting any type of frame job requires information the collective town simply doesn't have to confirm right now. Occam's Razor this one. Patrick always oozes towniness.

Wouldn't know that. Played with him once, furthers my point against Batt.

[Goatrevolt]

Lock Green

This game is last on my priorities right now. Sorry.

[Battousai]

So... Which scenerio with Elmo do you find most probable, and what has lead you to believe this?

Dunno, don't care. Not enough info, waste of time to discuss.

Then why did you suggest that Elmo was either framed or killed Patrick? The reason I think, is to put a counter point out there in which you feel is more likely. Since you have an opinion, there is obviously enough information to form one. By expressing these opinions, it adds more information than not, or at least something to talk about to gain more information.

I just don't get why the collective town of this site allow scum get a free pass N1. No one discusses it, to avoid the WIFOM and suspicion.

This. Suggesting any type of frame job requires information the collective town simply doesn't have to confirm right now. Occam's Razor this one. Patrick always oozes towniness.

I'm just suggesting two possibilities and comparing them together and giving an opinion. You being framed or you doing the killing. These two possibilities are easily compared with past information. Patrick being townie can't be as easily quantified, as players can have different opinions, expressed or held back.

[SpyreX]

I reread LG in iso and I can't find anything specific but I still have that itch. Le sigh.

Time for... unbridled agression!

Vote: Nuwen

.

Still don't like Elmogate.

[Elmo]

I guess I'm obligated to point out that, if I'm town and Patrick can read me, he'd probably have swung round to defending me, and would therefore make a good kill. (shrug)

Elmo, where and why is the line of questioning coming from?

There seems to be a double standard, and I'm curious where it comes from. There isn't really a specific why.

SpyreX / Goatrevolt: What specifically do you dislike about Nuwen's play?

The defense of Elmo was hyperfocused and completely ignored the equal sized Zazie wagon, yet Nuwen's stated rationale was to avoid lynching a lurker/non-contributor, which should have applied to both.

In particular, this is not what I got out of her posting. I think there is a fairly obvious difference between someone who is pure-lurking and someone who says "yes, I'm here, I don't have much to contribute", and that she referenced that e.g. in 496. I haven't found a stated argument from you two, but I guess it revolves around TownNuwen not having sufficient confidence to defend me like that? I'd like to know, anyway.

The point is that, at least in my mind, Nuwen identified some set of behaviour, hypothesised about my alignment and then acted on it. Gurgi's posting didn't seem to be affected by or really reference my alignment. Now, it may be personal bias on his part because we're friends, but I'd nonetheless think an average townie is less likely to defend someone without a read of some kind. It's also notable that Gurgi's comments were more low-key and therefore probably got the best of both worlds, in that it didn't reduce the chance I'd be lynched. So I am having a hard time seeing an objective argument why Nuwen is worse than Gurgi.

Gurgi: You said I was helpful as both alignments. What scum games of mine did you base that on?
SpyreX: Would you go for a Gurgi wagon?

[Lord Gurgi]

None really. I just figured. When I played with you last it didn't seem like anything you said had anything to do with your personal interests. I wasn't defending you because I thought you were town. As far as I'm concerned, if we're going to lynch a lurker, we might as well lynch someone who is less likely to be helpful. I feel like a broken record. It's just being objective.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: Battousai

The NK speculation really chafes me the wrong way.

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day Two Vote Count #1

2 Nuwen (forbiddanlight, SpyreX)
1 Battousai (Debonair Danny DiPietro)
1 LlamaFluff (Lord Gurgi)

With

10

alive, it takes

6

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is September 22, 9:59 pm CDT.

Not Voting – 6 – Battousai, Elmo, Goatrevolt, LlamaFluff, Nuwen, TDC

---

LOCK COUNT

7 – Green (forbiddanlight, SpyreX, Lord Gurgi, Battousai, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Nuwen, Goatrevolt)
0 – Blue
0 – Red
0 – Yellow

Not Locking – 3 – Elmo, LlamaFluff, TDC

At nightfall, the floor to be locked is: GREEN.

~

“Please ignore the fact that Señor Picklewick is being led to a back room. Also, please ignore any gunshots and screaming you may hear. Finally, please ignore the fact that Señor Picklewick may look slightly different when he returns to the room... after all, it's the clothes that make the man."

LlamaFluff is being replaced.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX / Goatrevolt: What specifically do you dislike about Nuwen's play?

The method and timing of jumping to your defense + the rest of the play. I wish I could quantify it better but being on the low end of contribution and then hard-lining on you to drift back into nothingness is blah.

SpyreX: Would you go for a Gurgi wagon?

At this EXACT moment in time? No. Not without something revolutionary that makes my itch make sense.

[SpyreX]

Those were Elmo, stupid quoting.