Mini 833 - Empire at War(The game is over?)

[Slicey]

@Slicey- I did comment on Santos, briefly:

Blah. I am not sure on Santos. I think Santos is actually trying to scum hunt this game. This is unlike my current suspect (Macavitylock) who I know is perfectly capable yet has not contributed as much as I have seen him do as town.

And Santos Replied:

Thank you. I thought I was talking to walls this entire game so far.

Santos obviously thought I commented on him. Why did you think I did not?

Now Slicey, I looked at your posts and noticed you were ignoring several people yourself. Why are you ignoring Zwet? Why are you ignoring Mclock?


@Furry/Slicey- I think he is either scum or Slicey misused his power.

A daykiller, if he was town, should daykill the would be lynch target. This way it effectively gives more information to us. If he would of daykilled santos for instance, we would of had most of the information we have now, and then we could of seen who would of wanted to lynch BC which would of been even more reads on people. With the way things happened, we have none of that. Now granted- the deadline was nigh, but that would be the optimum use as I see it.

Then again he did target a miller (in claim)...so that seems town. Thats probably the reason I am not voting him. I am getting mixed signals.

So you thought he was town, correct?

I can't get a read on zwet (shock and awe). Nothing was standing out with MacLock.

You're trying to paint me like I'm scum. I think it's blatantly obvious that I'm not scum. Look, if I vigged Santos instead of BC, then we would have ended in No Lynch because the deadline is so close. Thus, BC would still be alive and we'd still have to deal with miller WIFOM. If I killed Santos it would have been a waste of a kill. My kill was the optimal use for a kill in my position because I thought BC was a miller. I like my vote where it is for the time being.

Reckoner, to answer your question, I don't see a single valid point against Kdub. It consists of nothing but reaching IMHO.

Reckoner, let me ask you this: did you target Kre last night?

[zwetschenwasser]

I want Reckoner to claim first, and then Kreriov to claim. Krer's reasoning for why he didn't deem it necessary to go after his supposed tracker result isn't convincing me.

[Kreriov]

@Zwet - I have already claimed or did you miss that part?

[zwetschenwasser]

FULL claim. but not until Reckoner claims.

[Starbuck]

I posted my V/LA in the V/LA thread. I have military stuff (command wide inspection/inventory) going on all this week and a bit of next. I am off and on. I'm following along, but I really don't have time right this second to make the analytical post that I want to. I should be able to catch up on all my games on Sunday. I apologize for the inconvenience but that's the way of life when you are in the military.

[Furry]

I could ask you the same question, Kre. To your off topic: if you aren't lying about that role/result, then it's entirely possible you got redirected or roleblocked... though I don't know what kind of roleblocker would give you a partial result?

Also, let's get a show of hands: full claim or no from me. Yay or nay?

Yes, you full claim. Role and flavor. That is what happens when someone claims something like this on a player.

[Furry]

Also I really dont think that Kre being RBed is a possibility here. Most mods tend to not put two roleblocking roles in a game (we saw JK already). This is just due to the fact that people are split on how these roles will intereact if one hits the other. Mods like to avoid headaches, everything should be as simple as possible, if not simpler.

Now, there also is the fact that Kre tracked reck to KoC. He is not a reporter, he is not a watcher which it sure sounded like he was claiming at first. Anyways, he didnt get blocked, a block would of been something like "you have been roleblocked" or "you start to follow reck but the camera cuts out before you can tell if he is doing anything". There was a result, he was not roleblocked.

Now, if there is a redirector, I need to think if its worthwhile for the redirector to claim. I do instinctively lean to yes though, if someone bussed or redirected reck they should be claiming.

[Slicey]

Reck, a couple more questions.

Do you have an action where you target someone else? If so, when does this ability activate? Is it during the day, like my kill, or is it a twilight (AKA Night) ability?

Reck, don't claim till you answer these questions and I respond to them. I have a theory and these questions depend on if that theory is true. We may be going after the wrong people (i.e not Sajin and Furry)

[xRECKONERx]

@Slicey: I guess it's out of the bag that I'm a power role. So yes, I have an ability where I target someone else, and it activates during the day.

[Sajin]

@xReckoner- who did you target and with what?

[Kdub]

I've read Kreriov's play today again and I am leaning toward believing his claim. I initially had doubts because he did not immediately try to build a case on Reckoner, but his answers to questioning and explanations for his ability seem consistent. It's time for Reckoner to explain, but let Slicey respond to your previous post first. Slicey is the only player I see as very townish right now, so I'd like to hear his theory.

[MacavityLock]

Unvote.

Letting Krer/Reck/Slicey play out. I agree with Furry that Krer's camera cutout is probably more about flavor than about roleblock.

[Kreriov]

@Zwet - Ok, as there seems to be a general sentiment among those who are active for claiming, I will wait for Reck to claim then fully claim myself with complete role names. Per Kdub's request i will wait for Slicey to comment after Reckoner.

@Furry - I wasn't claiming watcher or tracker or anything. I was trying to describe The Camera Eye ability. I guess it does function more like a tracker even though the description is I pick a player to watch with the cameras.

@All - Furry seems to think I was not roleblocked. Do others concur? I think Furry almost right. It is unlikely that there are two town roleblocking roles. I have no way to judge the issue, but I have certainly been in a few games where there is a town jailkeeper and a scum roleblocking role. Basically I am afraid that if there IS another roleblocking role out there, it is a scum role. Of course should I live through the night we will probably know one way or the other. Once all the claiming shakes out this will be important to me and I would appreciate the input.

[xRECKONERx]

Why would the presence of a scum blocker be that hard to believe?

Also, my claim:
I'm Commander Nahdonnis Praji, the right hand man of Darth Vader. When the Squad 19 debacle occurred, Vader sent me in as a special interrogator to find out who was who. Each day I may use my ability,

High Command Interrogation

, to find out the role of one person each night. Last night, I investigated Zwet, and received "Stormtrooper" as a result. So basically, he's vanilla...something (I'm going to assume town, since I don't think scum would be called XXXXXX Stormtrooper).

So Kre, now that you've got me out in the open, it's time to figure out if you're lying or if you had a legitimate malfunction with your camera. Also, it's time for your claim.

[Furry]

zwet dont confirm or deny this yet

@reck - So you are a role cop and each night can get the role name of a certain player? If I am leaving anything out tell me now.

Also you got just "Stormtrooper" as a result?

[xRECKONERx]

Yes to everything. I don't get alignments, only role titles. It's a pretty meh role, especially since if I got, say, roleblocker, that could be town or scum.

[Kreriov]

@Reckoner - If that was directed at me about the scum blocker, I believe it.

My claim.

I am an Imperial Officer, Imperial Database Expert.

I have two abilities - The Camera Eye and Database Check.

I already described the first one. For the second, I can choose a person to investigate. My investigation reveals whether or not that person is a member of Squad 19.

I have not chosen which one to use yet today. I do not know if the timing of my decision has any affect on what I do or do not see. The database thing should not matter when I submit it.

I find it awfully convenient that your claim indicates you are not a member of Squad 19. HOWEVER, that actually gives a bit of verisimilitude. I would bet my last dollar that if I had had the chance to investigate BC he would have turned up as not a member of Squad 19. Why not a second townie who is not a member of Squad 19? (If BC knew this, maybe he wasn't so stupid to claim miller) I just don't know what to think. I would also bet that BC had a second ability to go with that Imperial Interrogator part of his role, on that would probably be very similar to your ability. I am going to do something I normally do not do, try to cooperate with someone I suspect. I want you to investigate me. Reveal your results tomorrow. If I am not lying, no offense, but I am more valuable to the town than you. If you say I am lying, I die. Simple. If you say I am not lying, we can verify by lynching you. (You know that people will no say we are in collusion.) That would also clear Zwet if you are telling the truth. Basically, by either no lynching or lynching someone other than me, you, or zwet we have the opportunity to get two known townies, one of which is a power role. Also, the scum have a WIFOM choices. We may have a protective role out there. Which to kill? If they do have a roleblocker, which to block? You either confirm me or I get to do an investigation clearing someone or finding scum. If either of us is killed, well, we will also know the other is lying. I have already committed to the risk of being lynched in order to prove my veracity. I have no problem risking it through twilight.

Well, there it is. The only decision I have left to make it whether I think no-lynch is better than picking someone else.

For now

Unvote

Vote: No-Lynch

[xRECKONERx]

Hmm. Interesting deal, Kre.

Unvote

, I'll consider it. Of course, if one of us is roleblocked or one of us dies, it kind of screws us over. Do you have any idea why you'd get me following KoC, then? The malfunction thing sounds pretty legit.

Also, I don't think no lynching is the way to go. We still need to lynch today, and I'm narrowing my field of vision down to either Kdub or Mac for the time being. I'll try to get that done this weekend sometime, but I will have limited access until Sunday due to me traveling to the mountains to visit a friend at college.

[Furry]

I would prefer to lynch reck today as I do not really buy that claim

1) Look at his role name, look at how the other role names work. They are all XXX, Imperial XXX. Reck claims XXX, XXX. The other two power roles do not follow this format.

2) He was tracked to KoC. He claims to of targeted zwet. The only way this can happen is a redirector role, or a framer that actually messes with a tracker. The latter is something I have never seen in a game, and is very overpowered.

3) This is a bit meta-ish, but role cop is usually a scum role. Also kre is claiming half role cop, so unless we have two role cops, one of them is lying.

@Kre - Unless you are arguing that Reck got framed or redirected to targeting KoC instead of zwet, the tracker role picked up on it, there is a VT cop and a role cop, and a single role that does not fit the format of everything else. Move your vote back to reck.

@All - If someone redirected Reck to KoC, claim now or be lynched if you claim it later.

[Kreriov]

I have consider the cases where one of us dies or is roleblocked. More from my side as I am unsure of your alignment and of course know mine. Basically, if I die, well, your next so that really doesn't concern me. That is the same situation as now. If you die and flip town, I am next. Again, same situation as now with the bonus that zwet is cleared and I possibly get one more investigation in. That is worst case from my standpoint. I am less concerned about the roleblocking. If you are roleblocked, well, that means my investigation goes through and zwet is cleared. If I am roleblocked, the situation is a bit more interesting. Either you are town and can verify me, are scum and will verify me anyway hoping to live longer, or are scum and will not verify me. If you verify me, you will have to die sometime before LYLO, assuming we ever make it that far. If you do not verify my, you are definitely scum and will die right after I do and will have prevented me from getting in another investigation and making zwet alignment uncertain again.

[Kreriov]

@Furry - I am not claiming role cop. I am claiming straight cop. I investigate and get a result as to whether a person is in Squad 19 or not. No info on abilities or role names.

[Kreriov]

@Reck - No idea at all. I am only speculating that it had to do with the timing of me watching you, which was very early on in D1. In the ability description is says I see whatever happens including instants. From the flavor I just got the impression that had something happened before I started watching I would not see it is all.

[Furry]

@Furry - I am not claiming role cop. I am claiming straight cop. I investigate and get a result as to whether a person is in Squad 19 or not. No info on abilities or role names.

You are claiming vanilla cop, a varient of role cop. Scene of the BC lynch showed us that PRs are not S19 members, so you get VT, not-VT results in laments terms.

I dont buy a role cop and tracker/VT-cop combo.

[MacavityLock]

I kind of agree with Furry, except I read Krer's other ability as more a "flavor" cop than a vanilla cop.

Still, Krer, if you thought that it was straight cop, why wouldn't you have used that ability on Reck? Isn't cop far more powerful/useful than tracker?

[Kreriov]

@Furry - Yes, I am still very much suspicious of Reck. I do not have much of a problem believing that there is a townie role cop and a townie cop. Given BCs flip, I just think HE was a townie role cop. The thing is, I have given Reck-town a great opportunity. He can confirm a powerful town role or reveal a scum. At the very least he can give a possible town role the chance to do an investigation. In either case Zwet is confirmed town. On the other hand, this puts Reck-sum in a very tough spot. If scum really can kill every twilight, he can try to kill me and if successful, he dies next. Or, come tomorrow, he must choose to either verify me or lie. If he lies, I die then he dies. If he verifies me, he has more opportunity to convince us he is town. As far as I am concerned, I have done my job and given the town the best opportunity to kill scum or gain confirmed townies and power roles.