Newbie 844 - Game Over (Scum Win)

[DarthRandal1138]

Original Roll String: 1d9

1 9-Sided Dice: (6) = 6

[DarthRandal1138]

Vote: startransmission

The dice never lie!

Hi, everybody. This is my first game played, but I've been reading the site for a while now. Looking forward to a good time!

[DarthRandal1138]

I'm definitely *not* in favor of a no-lynch, D1 or otherwise. If it's obvious we're voting no-lynch, the mafia can just sit back and relax, wait for night, and then off a townie. If we start discussion, pursue leads, and apply some pressure, the mafia may slip. Even in the case of a D1 mislynch, the day's discussion can prove revealing in the future. Who voted who? Who defended who? Did someone make a slip no one picked up on at the time. The town's greatest weapon is information, and a no-lynch gives us none, aside from perhaps looking at those who were pushing for said no-lynch...

just me
DarthRandal1138
Dondero
Annachie
xvart
Pyrogen 1 xvart
hitogoroshi
startransmission 1 DarthRandal1138
fhqwhgads 1 startransmission

No Lynch 1 Pyrogen


Not Voting

just me

Dondero
Annachie
hitogoroshi
fhqwhgads

[DarthRandal1138]

[quote=Pyrogen]BTW, here is what I think the vote count on a person means this first day:[/quote]

So you're saying that then number of votes on a person has a

direct correlation

to how scummy they are? If someone gets to 4 votes, would you just auto-hammer, regardless of your feelings as to that person's scuminess?

That, my friend, is mindless bandwagonning, not scumhunting. Each person here should vote their own personal convictions, and not allow themselves to be swayed by some mythical "will of the town."

Given that I feel that there is a "slightly better than random possibility (2/9) you are scum," I think I should

Unvote; Vote: Pyrogen

.

[DarthRandal1138]

EBWOP: Upon reread, just me has a vote on you as well, so I guess, by your own system, we should upgrade you to "suspiscious looking," yes?

[DarthRandal1138]

Well, hitogoroshi beat me to the punch a bit, so I'll just say that my vote on Pyro was a pressure vote, intended to elicit a response, and did it ever!

BTW, here is what I think the

vote count

on a person means this first day:

(Emphasis mine)

I read this as "Anyone with two votes already on them is automatically suspicious." If it was intended to read as "If I place the second vote on someone, then I find them suspicious," then I'll concede to a simple misunderstanding. I'll keep my vote where it is until Pyro has a chance to respond.

Also, my EBWOP was a joke, as indicated by the ";)". In this text-based medium, it's difficult to convey humor, so I generally uses smilies as an indicator. If my post doesn't contain a smilie, you can generally assume it's serious.

[DarthRandal1138]

What is EBWOP?

Edited By Way Of Post

Since we're not allowed to edit our posts, it's a way to indicate an addition or correction to your previous post.

[DarthRandal1138]

@Annachie

No one is proposing a "random lynch." While games do tend to *start* with a lot of random voting, the D1 lynch should not itself be random. The purpose of the random voting is to elicit reactions.

For instance, I started by throwing a dice-determined random vote on startransmission. Had he reacted by getting very defensive, or otherwise overreacting, that could have been a potential scumtell. The idea behind the RVS (Random Voting Stage) is to start conversation, and thereby keep the D1 lynch from being random.

Granted, mislynches are still possible, particularly on D1, but a mislynch still provides the town with information, i.e. voting patterns, bandwagonning, who started the wagon, who hammered, etc. A no-lynch, in contrast, provides the town with no information. Likewise, if we *do* hit scum D1, not only are we halfway to winning, but we can look to see who was defending (subtly or otherwise) the lynchee, or perhaps look for signs of bussing (scum voting for their partner to divert suspicion, or "throwing them under a bus").

[DarthRandal1138]

Well, for starters, as he did me the courtesy,

Unvote: Pyrogen

.

With that out of the way, there are a few points I'd like Pyro to address.

I'm not saying we have to not lynch anybody today(...)

Then why the vote? Why not just bring up the idea of a no-lynch; see what we all have to say? By committing your vote, you imply that you are strongly in favor of a no-lynch.

Don't worry though about an early no lynch, if anybody jumped on my "no lynch" bandwagon I'd be the first to vote for them instead.

So what does everyone else think about the Day-1 no lynch?

So were you just waiting for someone to support a no-lynch so you'd have a "reason" to vote them?

Vote Annachie
For being the only one not to disapprove of the no-lynch while mentioning it(...)

Hmm... guess so.

Vote DarthRandal

Personally I think you're at the level of 2-very suspiscious, but I only have one vote, so whatever.

Subtly implying that others should vote for me as well? Or quietly telling your scumbuddy that I would be a good target for a mislynch?

Vote: Pyrogen

OMG A Bandwagon! Talk!

.....

Yeah on second thought, I'm not that dumb.

Unvote: Pyrogen


Talk! Am I a suitable lynch today?

Not yet, but keep talking...

[DarthRandal1138]

EBWOP:

Also, as far as the idea of "helping your future play;" while that is all well and good, you need to play *this* game to

win

, not use it as a stepping stone in future endeavors. The rest of us are here to play *this* game, and I, for one, would prefer that you play to the utmost of your abilities, whether as town or scum.

[DarthRandal1138]

(...)and I have no intentention of getting lynched.

You've a funny way of showing it.

That said, my point was that, if you're town, getting a bandwagon thrown on yourself is not "playing to win." If you are town, and we mislynch you, we (and by extension, you) could very well win, but the town would be giving up a lynch to help you evaluate your play (or whatever).

Your antics with the self-vote aren't scummy

per se

, but they *are* anti-town.

[DarthRandal1138]

This will also help me in my future play, in both cases of my being scum or town.

You've also now claimed, unsolicited, that this move will help you if you are, in fact, scum.

Pyro, could you address this point by xvart?

[DarthRandal1138]

Mod:

I unvoted Pyrogen here.

@Annachie

It really means that the first vote should include 1 scum with a fair chance of both of them voting.

By "first vote," do you mean the first *lynch*, or are you saying that anyone who places the first vote on someone is likely to be scum?

Except in the case of a townie who is acting

really

scummy, almost any mislynch is bound to have one or both of the scum voting on it, and even in the case where we lynch scum, you can't automatically assume that everyone who voted for scum is town, or that anyone who did *not* vote is obvscum.

[DarthRandal1138]

I don't see how people keep saying I'm trying to trap them.

So I set a little conversation trap, if you will(...)

Moving on, in the interest of avoiding tunneling on Pyro, I'm going to put together a post with my thoughts on everyone else in the game. Back soon.

[DarthRandal1138]

Annachie

Decent posting frequency, but a lot of his posts are lacking in content.

DarthRandal1138

Obvtown. This is a man we can trust.

Dondero

Would like to see more posting. I know he replaced in, but only a day after the rest of us started.
Also not a big fan of this:

@Annachie – If I’m cahoots with justme then we have to be the most inept pair of scum this site’s ever seen. I merely raise a couple of queries regarding Pyro’s motives for no-lynch, the vote on him drops from one to zero, and then….justme strikes? Yep, we’re the Laurel and Hardy of mafiascum alright!

This is a little too "aw, shucks" for my taste. "Yep, I could be mafia alright, but if I were, I'd be really bad at it, yup."

Pretty high on my scumdar right now, but I'll hold off throwing a third vote on him until after he posts some more.

fhqwhgads

While he hasn't posted much yet, his posts are chock-full of content.
Solid townie read.

hitogoroshi

Of his 6 posts, only half contain any content, but he did get to the party two days late.
No real read yet; would like to see more posting.

just me

Fairly frequent poster, but not much real content.
No real read right now, but:

also, we should be aware for any major twisting, I think there has been one instance of this but can't be bothered checking right now(…)

Please, bother…

Pyrogen

Ah, Pyro…

At this point, I'm leaning more over-enthusiastic newbtown than scum, but IGMEOY.

Neither the no-lynch thing nor your self-voting shenanigans seem to have endeared you to the rest of the posters, so, please, if your town, chill out a bit. Trying to provoke reactions is a good thing, but when the reactions all involve the rest of us questioning your motives, not so good.

Unless, of course, you're scum, in which case please keep digging.

startransmission

Hasn't said much, but has promised content soon. Very soon, I hope.

xvart

Fairly solid town read.
Not sure what to make of the accusations of coaching from fhqwhgads, particularly as he is my other reasonably firm townie.

In summation:

FOS: Dondero

IGMEOY: Pyrogen

post moar, plz: hitogoroshi, startransmission

[DarthRandal1138]

How the hell is the "Laurel and Hardy" bit possibly a scumtell?

You really don't see it as very WIFOM-y? "I couldn't possibly be scum, because if I was, I'd be pretty inept, wouldn't I?"

[DarthRandal1138]

Sorry for my absence over the weekend, folks. I got hit pretty hard by the flu, and my enthusiasm for anything other than lying around and moaning quietly was pretty much nonexistant. :$

I like the analyses from startransmission & xvart. In startransmission's case, I may have to accept the fact that the dice do, occasionally, lie.

@hitogoroshi: I'm willing to agree with you on the point that Annachie's case against a just me/Dondero scumteam is *very* weak, but I still dislike the tone behind Dondero's now-infamous "Laurel & Hardy" comment.
I'm not saying that I find it outright scummy, but it does reek of WIFOM, and I'm hardly the only one to point this out.

@Annachie & just me: Could the two of you upload avatars at your convenience? It would make telling your posts apart *much* easier at a glance.

@Dondero: Alright, it has now been *over 5 days* since your last post (4 if we count the weekend as 1 day). I, and quite a few of the others, would really like to hear from you.
You haven't posted anywhere else on the site, but I'm hoping you haven't just abandoned the game. To give you some motivation to post:

Vote: Dondero

[DarthRandal1138]

I'm here. I haven't posted because I've been waiting to hear from Dondero. Now that he's being replaced, hopefully his replacement will be a bit more active, and we can get discussion flowing again.

[DarthRandal1138]

My apologies for my decided lack of activity lately. It's partly real life, and partly a dissatisfaction with both the general lack of conversation, and the protracted wait for a replacement for Dondero. As both of these problems have been cleared up:

First off,

Unvote: Dondero/HackerHuck

. While I'm still a bit wary of Dondero, the vote was largely pressure to post, and I like what I see in Hacker's post. I'll be keeping my eye on him, nevertheless.

I don't like Darth's vote on Dondero. If he hasn't posted elsewhere on the site, what makes you think a vote will do anything?

That was more observation than suspicion:

You haven't posted anywhere else on the site,

but I'm hoping you haven't just abandoned the game

.

I voted your predecessor for inactivity, but I was conceding the possibility that he had simply (for whatever reason) abandoned the game and/or site altogether.

/vote fhqwhgads

He's cautious and barely scumhunting at all (besides me and Annachie), instead addressing only minor issues. This is my reason for the vote.

"He's not scumhunting (except for when he's coming after me and one other person), so I'm gonna vote him."



I also dislike this:

I don't think we'll get anybody.

You seem to be stopping just short of suggesting a no-lynch again. I think you noticed you were tied for the most votes with a lurker who had just been replaced, and were starting to get nervous.

Vote: Pyrogen

[DarthRandal1138]

(...)I was pretty sure he was scum trying to start a mislynch bandwagon. His activity dropped off,

but he did cast the first vote

on the eventual mislynch.

(Emphasis mine)


Umm, I was the *third* vote on Pyro. xvart voted Pyro here, way back on page 5, and startransmission voted here, 59 posts later. I didn't place my vote for another 38 posts, after which Annachie votes nine posts later, followed by hitogoroshi's hammer after another 12 posts.

[DarthRandal1138]

Darth, why did you ignore your original vote on Pyro in your summation?

For the same reason I ignored xvart and just me's initial votes for Pyro; we had all unvoted. I was responding to Kill-kill's suggestion that I was the first vote "on the wagon," which I took to mean "the sequence of votes that led to Pyro's lynch." At any rate, even accounting for that, I *still* wasn't the first vote on Pyro.

Can I link to games in which I am dead, but the game itself is not over, or is that "discussing an on-going game"?

I

believe

that's considered kosher, but *please* don't take my word for it. We may want to wait on Word of Mod on that, but I *would* still like a link to your completed game, as well as a link to a "town" game once you get the go-ahead.

DarthRandal - What do you think about KillKill's "all scum all the time" play style?

Fixed it for ya; one "ell" please.

As I said above, I'd *really* like to see an example of his playstyle as town before making final judgment, but as of now, I find the statement on the scummy side. It seems like a nice way to weasel out of getting called on something later: "Nono, remember? I told you guys I act scummy as town, yeah?"

[DarthRandal1138]

I'm still here, folks.

@Kill-kill: Thanks for the link. I'm reading through your part of that game now. In the meantime, any comments on why you were misrepresenting me as having the "first vote on the eventual mislynch" of Pyro?

[DarthRandal1138]

My apologies for my protracted absence from this game. I've had a lot going on at home and at work, and probably should have listed myself as V/LA. That said, I don't want to get replaced out in my first-ever game, so I'm going to try to be more attentive from here on out.

I'm *really* not liking Kill-kill's play so far. He replaces a scummy-ish lurker (not really his fault), and then proceeds to play the, "Don't worry if I act scummy, it's just how I come off," card, followed by fairly blatant misrepresentations of both myself and HackerHuck. Any one of those things I could write off as errors, but taken together, I don't like what I see.

Vote: Kill-kill

As Hacker pointed out, if you're aware that your normal town play comes off as scummy, you should make an effort to change it. Otherwise, you are doing a disservice to both the town and yourself. It's far too easy for scum to hide behind "lolplaystyle" excuses. If you're town, you need to avoid scummy actions, since scummy town players only cause confusion and mislynches, as was ably demonstrated by Pyrogen Day 1.

[DarthRandal1138]

Hmm.

The way I see it, there are currently two likely possibilities regarding startransmission's sudden hammer:

1) If Kill-kill flips town, startransmission is probably scum, and will be on the deserving end of some heavy scrutiny tomorrow.

2) If Kill-kill flips scum, I find it entirely possible that startransmission just performed a very un-graceful bussing of his scumbuddy, and will be on the deserving end of some heavy scrutiny tomorrow.

I suppose we must also acknowledge the possibility that:

3) startransmission is town, and just playing exceedingly poorly, whether for "real life stuff," or just

because

, and will be on the deserving end of some heavy scrutiny tomorrow.


Frankly, star, if you *are* town, that was a really bad move on your part. As xvart said, I agree with a hammer on Kill-kill, but *not* with the manner in which you executed it. Kill-kill had not had the chance to respond to being at L-1, whether to claim or at the very least defend himself.

On top of that, you hadn't posted in 6 days when you swooped in and hammered, and you hadn't posted any

content

in 12 days.

After some consideration(...)

How about letting the rest of us in on your thought process before dropping the hammer on someone who had not yet responded to accusations against him?

TL/DR:

*Major* FOS: startransmission

[DarthRandal1138]

Bah! Go town!

[DarthRandal1138]

Good game, everybody! Well played, xvart & HackerHuck! I can honestly say I was surprised to find out who the scum was in this game. Aside from my early suspicions of Dondero(Hacker), I never had either of you very high on my scumlist. In particular, I think you both did a good job of distancing from one another on the final day, without it seeming like "distancing."

Of course, you were aided by some less than stellar play from the town, myself included. I was a lot less active than I should have been, a flaw I hope to correct in my next game. I'd love to hear any comments any of you have on my play, particularly fhqwhgads, if you're still keeping tabs on this game. What did I do well? What did I do poorly?

Thanks again, everyone, for a great first game! Maybe next time I'll stay alive longer.