Mini 848 - Second String Muppets Mafia - Game Over.

[Zorblag]

Vote Count 1.7

The numbers by the voters indicate the order in which the vote was cast. If two or more players are tied for the most votes to lynch at the deadline the tiebreaker will be the player who has the earliest active vote.

MonkeyMan576: 3: MacavityLock (7), ekiM (12), Eldritch Lord (19)
Debonair Danny DiPietro: 3: Snix (16), Kirbyoshi (25), MonkeyMan576 (26)
Kirbyoshi: 2: charter (21), Debonair Danny DiPietro (22)
~Jordan`: 1: springlullaby (2)
Eldritch Lord: 1: elvis_knits (24)

Not Voting: Ectomancer, ~Jordan`

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Currently MonkeyMan576 would be lynched at deadline. Deadline is 1:00 PM EDT/10 AM PDT on Wednesday, October 7th 2009.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[charter]

Charter, whenever you are ready to defend your assessment on me, I'll be happy to destroy it.

3 of your *points* against me are scum pair speculation based upon the actions of another player, and that was all by page 3.

Appeal to page noted, and ignored. Something scummy on page three is just as lynchworthy as page 30. ML's actions reflect poorly on you, but you're right, it's more of a reason to lynch ML before you.

1 of your points is against the alt's issue, which has already been discussed ad infinitum and criticized by a number of other players already. I see of all the points that could possibly actually be made against me, you chose the easy strawman and

never

actually addressed the case on Monkey, did you?

I never really looked at the case on MM. Cases can be engineered to say anything you want. I looked at the people that voted him, how they went about doing that, and when they did it. Far too many of MM's voters never looked at anyone else, never actually tried to discern his alignment, and voted him very opportunistically. His wagon is HEAVILY scumdriven, at least two scum on it. I don't really care if you can list points against him, I can do it too, doesn't mean he's scum.

Finally, your "Ecto is so scummy" post.

Let's see, MM is at L-2 and very little in other cases has been made aside from Jordan's (who I know is a big nub). L-1 follows

the very next post

.
I suppose you would like to argue that trying to establish where other players stand than on the main case is scummy?

No. Your post looked like distancing. You never explained why you thought Kirby was deserving of a vote, just threw it out there. You've done virtually nothing but try and get MM lynched. I have no idea why you think Kirby is suspicious or why you currently aren't voting him.

What

really

cracks me up is your almost certain move had I agreed to lynch my second target is that you would have switched from an accusation of buddying to one of bussing. Neat trick. Take my 2nd suspect, accuse me of buddying with them, then vote them after I had removed my vote from Monkey and stated that I was awaiting other assessments before making a decision, when it is almost certainly obvious that Kirby is my man on deck.

You can throw out all your baseless speculation you want, I'm sure no one is buying it.

Oh, by the way, the

only

time you can vote when someone calls you out on not voting is

after

they said it. So your argument is bunk trash. The only thing you could say there is that by that point in the game I should have placed a vote and not doing so is scummy.
Except I shouldn't and it isn't.

unvote[/i]

Yes, but the way you did it was scummy. You did it because you were pressured to vote, not because you were ready to. You could have said "I'm not ready to vote" or something, and continued not voting, but your next post you voted, so yes, you only did it to get Elvis off your back.

[charter]

You're not making much sense here. First I'm "only now not liking the last two votes," then you say how you do know that I "even mentioned before that I thought their votes were fishy." I mentioned it before, hence, it is not the first time I said I don't like the votes. And the continued absence of EL has made me feel he's a much better place to put my vote.

Well, you only now voted someone else. Before you said you didn't like the last two votes, but it seemed as if you still wanted MM lynched and you kept your vote on him. I think it's odd that it took you so long to decide to vote someone else. I really don't see why this change happened so long after the last two votes on him.

@charter: I'm not generally one to bite the hand that feeds me, but first you say I'm obvtown, and then you say all vanilla claims should be lynched. Which is it?

Vanilla's should be lynched. They're either scum or vanilla, neither is a big loss for the town. Claiming vanilla should never save you from a lynch. You claim has nothing to do with why I'm trying to get someone else lynched, I'd be doing it if you didn't claim (which you shouldn't have done, no one was threatening to hammer). I'm doing it because it's really obvious you're not scum, and there's no need to lynch you.

Kirbyoshi gets -1 points for failing to use any of the phrases "blatant(ly)", "ham-handed", "brazen", or "unabashedly" in his post.

Since DDD refuses to answer his accusations, and he was over-promoting himself early as obvtown, I'm inclined to,

Unvote:
Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

Ok, you're going to have to start trying to help yourself. I'm done defending you now, if you keep doing stuff like this, you'll probably get yourself to L-1 again. Kirby's vote is scummy too, and I'm now REALLY sure he's scum. He dismisses everything I've said with "Most of charter's case against me is bullcrap" but of course doesn't explain why or anything. He also jumps on to DDD, which I guess is the next easy target for Kirbyscum to vote.

MM, you are obvtown because your wagon was obvscumdriven. It really has nothing to do with your play, which has not been stellar.

At first I was just gracious not to be on L-1 anymore, but looking at things a bit more objectively it looks a bit odd.

Are you even thinking? If I was scum, I would just post 'claimed vanilla, hammer' and proceed to night. Unless of course you're trying to argue that you are scum and I am scummy for calling you town. This seems very disingenuous to argue against preventing your own lynch.

[MonkeyMan576]

You're not making much sense here. First I'm "only now not liking the last two votes," then you say how you do know that I "even mentioned before that I thought their votes were fishy." I mentioned it before, hence, it is not the first time I said I don't like the votes. And the continued absence of EL has made me feel he's a much better place to put my vote.

Well, you only now voted someone else. Before you said you didn't like the last two votes, but it seemed as if you still wanted MM lynched and you kept your vote on him. I think it's odd that it took you so long to decide to vote someone else. I really don't see why this change happened so long after the last two votes on him.

@charter: I'm not generally one to bite the hand that feeds me, but first you say I'm obvtown, and then you say all vanilla claims should be lynched. Which is it?

Vanilla's should be lynched. They're either scum or vanilla, neither is a big loss for the town. Claiming vanilla should never save you from a lynch. You claim has nothing to do with why I'm trying to get someone else lynched, I'd be doing it if you didn't claim (which you shouldn't have done, no one was threatening to hammer). I'm doing it because it's really obvious you're not scum, and there's no need to lynch you.

Kirbyoshi gets -1 points for failing to use any of the phrases "blatant(ly)", "ham-handed", "brazen", or "unabashedly" in his post.

Since DDD refuses to answer his accusations, and he was over-promoting himself early as obvtown, I'm inclined to,

Unvote:
Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

Ok, you're going to have to start trying to help yourself. I'm done defending you now, if you keep doing stuff like this, you'll probably get yourself to L-1 again. Kirby's vote is scummy too, and I'm now REALLY sure he's scum. He dismisses everything I've said with "Most of charter's case against me is bullcrap" but of course doesn't explain why or anything. He also jumps on to DDD, which I guess is the next easy target for Kirbyscum to vote.

MM, you are obvtown because your wagon was obvscumdriven. It really has nothing to do with your play, which has not been stellar.

At first I was just gracious not to be on L-1 anymore, but looking at things a bit more objectively it looks a bit odd.

Are you even thinking? If I was scum, I would just post 'claimed vanilla, hammer' and proceed to night. Unless of course you're trying to argue that you are scum and I am scummy for calling you town. This seems very disingenuous to argue against preventing your own lynch.

You're not making much sense here. First I'm "only now not liking the last two votes," then you say how you do know that I "even mentioned before that I thought their votes were fishy." I mentioned it before, hence, it is not the first time I said I don't like the votes. And the continued absence of EL has made me feel he's a much better place to put my vote.

Well, you only now voted someone else. Before you said you didn't like the last two votes, but it seemed as if you still wanted MM lynched and you kept your vote on him. I think it's odd that it took you so long to decide to vote someone else. I really don't see why this change happened so long after the last two votes on him.

@charter: I'm not generally one to bite the hand that feeds me, but first you say I'm obvtown, and then you say all vanilla claims should be lynched. Which is it?

Vanilla's should be lynched. They're either scum or vanilla, neither is a big loss for the town. Claiming vanilla should never save you from a lynch. You claim has nothing to do with why I'm trying to get someone else lynched, I'd be doing it if you didn't claim (which you shouldn't have done, no one was threatening to hammer). I'm doing it because it's really obvious you're not scum, and there's no need to lynch you.

Kirbyoshi gets -1 points for failing to use any of the phrases "blatant(ly)", "ham-handed", "brazen", or "unabashedly" in his post.

Since DDD refuses to answer his accusations, and he was over-promoting himself early as obvtown, I'm inclined to,

Unvote:
Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

Ok, you're going to have to start trying to help yourself. I'm done defending you now, if you keep doing stuff like this, you'll probably get yourself to L-1 again. Kirby's vote is scummy too, and I'm now REALLY sure he's scum. He dismisses everything I've said with "Most of charter's case against me is bullcrap" but of course doesn't explain why or anything. He also jumps on to DDD, which I guess is the next easy target for Kirbyscum to vote.

MM, you are obvtown because your wagon was obvscumdriven. It really has nothing to do with your play, which has not been stellar.

At first I was just gracious not to be on L-1 anymore, but looking at things a bit more objectively it looks a bit odd.

Are you even thinking? If I was scum, I would just post 'claimed vanilla, hammer' and proceed to night. Unless of course you're trying to argue that you are scum and I am scummy for calling you town. This seems very disingenuous to argue against preventing your own lynch.

Okay, now I'm definately suspicious of you. You're acting like you're my savior, and I would have been lynched if not for you. It has nothing to do with MY arguments of course. Add to the fact your PGO claim. Then you call my play bad, when you have only been playing for a couple days, like your play has been so great.

[charter]

Your play HAS been bad. You got yourself run up to L-1 with it. It wasn't because people thought you were town, I can tell you that much. Like I said, the only reason I don't want to lynch you is becasue I'm pretty sure you're not scum. Can you show me evidence of how you were planning on not being lynched before I replaced in? No.. Your arguments weren't working, like you said.

[Ectomancer]

Your play HAS been bad. You got yourself run up to L-1 with it. It wasn't because people thought you were town, I can tell you that much.

Holy contradiction Batman! I thought his wagon was scum driven? Now it was town driven?

[Eldritch Lord]

My point is that when people wanted to widen the net of suspicion to include you, you suggested we stay on the three others.

You should keep in mind here that by widening the net of suspicion to include me, you mean MonkeyMan weakly deflected at a time that I thought it was inopportune (by suggesting I "go find my own scum"), especially since he had been slipping up so much.

Okay so which "fairly thoroughly town" people were you trying to help? Because it looked to me that you were trying to help ecto for a long time there and he's on your list of acceptable lynches. So is he town or is he an acceptable lynch?

Help Ecto? No, I was trying to scumhunt on Money, the fact that you notice that I'm not helping Monkey or Ecto should tell you that I truly believed the case on both was weak. But since you ask, Snix strikes me as fairly town; though this may be because of personal experience I've had playing with Snix in the past.

Ecto has been playing some kind of deflection game, backing down because from L-1 and then seeming to resume his case against monkey in 288.

Posts that make me believe Monkey may be scum:

That's not what I'm doing at all. What's with all the psychoanalyzing? I have actual semi-hard evidence of a connection between two players and people are coming up with all this fluff stuff.

The Jordan/Ecto connection has pretty much boiled down to nothing by general consensus (except by charter perhaps, who seems to think he's the only Town in a BastardMod game). Yet he's claiming semi-hard evidence and plays my quoted post off as psycho-analyzation as though it would be irrelevant if it was.

why don't you try to find your own scum, rather than lynch those that are willing to put themselves on a limb trying?

Emotional outburst or weak defense, you decide.

I've pushed for the Ecto/Jordan voters to consolidate for awhile now. Jordan seems to be the better choice, and I continue that assesment.

Pushing for consolidation without specifying exactly who he thinks is scummier, sets him up for a nice D2 position...if it works.

I second this, this, in conjuction with his willingness to lynch scumhunters, gives me enough reason to change my vote for the time being.

Vote: Eldritch Lord

I read this as: "Since it's no longer an OMGUS and he's still willing to lynch me, I'll vote."
Post Right After:

Also, it's pretty scummy to be directly promoting your own towniness, it causes one to think that your motives for your actions are not to find scum, but to project towniness.

Really, isn't that what he was just doing to justify his voting for me?

If by mysteriously vanished, you mean I've been too busy to give this game the time it deserves, then you are exactly right. Keep in mind I've been gone for maybe two days. It's a forum game, not an IRL/IM/Skype game.

[Eldritch Lord]

Charter, your playstyle, your abrasiveness, it strikes me as odd. I think I'll work on a summary of my thoughts on you pretty soon here. You rub me the wrong way, beyond insulting my ability to post (or lack thereof.)

[charter]

Your play HAS been bad. You got yourself run up to L-1 with it. It wasn't because people thought you were town, I can tell you that much.

Holy contradiction Batman! I thought his wagon was scum driven? Now it was town driven?

Holy twisting things batman! There were obviously townies voting for him that didn't think he was town. Kind of funny that you're arguing that you're scum though.

[charter]

Ecto, why did you unvote MM? Why aren't you voting right now?

[Snix]

I enjoy the fact that never once did I come up in the Charter Inquisition. I don't really know how to take that...

Also, Charter: Why do you not think DDD is scum? Or at least very scummy?

[Eldritch Lord]

Snix, I'd like to hear your read on Charter, if at all possible.

[Snix]

Snix, I'd like to hear your read on Charter, if at all possible.

Right now I'm waiting for a response to my questions and then will give a verdict. Don't want my attitude to taint the response in any way.

[Ectomancer]

Ecto, why did you unvote MM? Why aren't you voting right now?

If you read the game, you'll see that I answered both questions. Busy tonight, I'll get around later to what looks like a ton of issues with your posts.

[charter]

I enjoy the fact that never once did I come up in the Charter Inquisition. I don't really know how to take that...

Also, Charter: Why do you not think DDD is scum? Or at least very scummy?

You didn't stand out very much in my read (which is good, I normally just note scummy things). Right now, I'm leaning town on you. I went and checked, and I see you're voting Ectomancer, so townpoints for that, but it also seems like you have been doing this all game. Why have you only voted Ectomancer?

I don't think DDD is scum because the only questionable thing he's done is vote MM.

[elvis_knits]

My point is that when people wanted to widen the net of suspicion to include you, you suggested we stay on the three others.

You should keep in mind here that by widening the net of suspicion to include me, you mean MonkeyMan weakly deflected at a time that I thought it was inopportune (by suggesting I "go find my own scum"), especially since he had been slipping up so much.

MM was not the only person suspicious of you for calling all the cases (which you were actively advancing) weak.

I don't see how you can really defend the fact that you
1) Questioned and helped build cases and then said they were weak and blamed them on other people
2) Didn't want to build cases on your own
3) Repeatedly help others further cases (like you believe in them), then come out and say the opposite. This amounts to manipulation and hiding your true opinion.

Okay so which "fairly thoroughly town" people were you trying to help? Because it looked to me that you were trying to help ecto for a long time there and he's on your list of acceptable lynches. So is he town or is he an acceptable lynch?

Help Ecto? No, I was trying to scumhunt on Money, the fact that you notice that I'm not helping Monkey or Ecto should tell you that I truly believed the case on both was weak. But since you ask, Snix strikes me as fairly town; though this may be because of personal experience I've had playing with Snix in the past.

I guess I really don't understand what you were trying to do or what the point was, by helping people question/attack when you believed the attack was weak. Why do that when you could be building a case you do believe in?

It seems like you're just trying to help the town go the wrong way. Which isn't helping at all.

[Kirbyoshi]

Right now I'm waiting for a response to my questions and then will give a verdict. Don't want my attitude to taint the response in any way.

You have an attitude, one of anticipation; therefore, your attitude will affect his response (joke).

I don't think DDD is scum because the only questionable thing he's done is vote MM.

Really? The ONLY thing? Good job noticing the buddying to a claimed town PR, and maybe others, I'll have to reread before I give a list.

[Snix]

I enjoy the fact that never once did I come up in the Charter Inquisition. I don't really know how to take that...

Also, Charter: Why do you not think DDD is scum? Or at least very scummy?

You didn't stand out very much in my read (which is good, I normally just note scummy things). Right now, I'm leaning town on you. I went and checked, and I see you're voting Ectomancer, so townpoints for that, but it also seems like you have been doing this all game. Why have you only voted Ectomancer?

I don't think DDD is scum because the only questionable thing he's done is vote MM.

Bold is mine.

It's also the only thing he has done. And it put someone at L-1 and he had almost no explanation and even you have said you don't think Monkey is scum.

To answer your question: I am currently voting DDD and started voting Ecto for reasons already stated. He answered my questions sufficiently but my vote stayed because a) he was still on the top of my scum list and b) he was in no danger of being lynched.

I am still for the DDD wagon, it seriously looked like a bad attempt to quick hammer that went wrong because no one else (either his scum buddy or misguided town) finished MM off.

[Eldritch Lord]

I'm questioning your read-through charter, it's pretty clear that Snix voted DDD a while back.

[charter]

I don't see how you can accuse DDD of not doing anything when no one has questioned him really. I guess the putting MM at L-1 is a fair point, but I don't think DDD is scum. I missed that Snix voted DDD, my bad.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

It's also the only thing he has done. And it put someone at L-1 and he had almost no explanation and even you have said you don't think Monkey is scum.

It's almost like my posts 162 and 170 don't exist. Except they do, you might not like my reasons but to suggest that that I didn't provide an explanation is a fabrication.

I am still for the DDD wagon, it seriously looked like a bad attempt to quick hammer that went wrong because no one else (either his scum buddy or misguided town) finished MM off.

This seems awfully contingent upon the knowledge that MM is actually town which isn't confirmed at all and it's something only scum would know.

[Snix]

It's almost like my posts 162 and 170 don't exist. Except they do, you might not like my reasons but to suggest that that I didn't provide an explanation is a fabrication.

Those reasonings are nothing more than rehashes of ecto's points and I would have thought some new revelation would have come to you to suddenly make you stop lurking.

This seems awfully contingent upon the knowledge that MM is actually town which isn't confirmed at all and it's something only scum would know.

So as scum I'm defending a townie to do.... what?

I know what you're getting at but it makes no sense. I believe someone is town and see someone else attempting to set up a quick-hammer I'm going to be suspicious.

You don't seem to be defending yourself DDD merely brushing off votes with responses like:

Kirbyoshi gets -1 points for failing to use any of the phrases "blatant(ly)", "ham-handed", "brazen", or "unabashedly" in his post.

[Ectomancer]

Alright, I'm going to shift gears here. Rather than picking apart Charter's game assessments, I want to examine the ramifications in general of his claim, how it can be proven, and a general town strategy to make use of it. If I have it right, he doesnt have to be smart, just alive if he is telling the truth.

Monkey, you said you had experience with it, so looking to hear you expound on the role in games you've played. The more I put thought to it, the more questions come up, and I think that some of them actually shouldn't be answered if he is town. Realize that this is a better MD discussion simply because of the ever present spectre of manipulating the argument to fit the game. Here's to objectivity.

So, if I understand this correctly, charter is claiming that anyone targeting him will die. If town, that is great for us as he can only die by being lynched. We get one more confirmed townie to endgame and we win. But, first we have to confirm charter's claim.
It seems the only opportunity is for a power role with targeting abilities to target charter and then die. Given charter's ability, for most roles that will be akin to trading a rook to save the queen. My hypothesis is that a power role targeting him and dying would confirm him as town. I cant fathom that scum would have that ability, then claim it for some reverse psychology ploy. It would make more sense for it to be a fake claim to

avoid

being targeted.
Now, of course, we have to confirm that the reason the power role died was indeed because of targeting. That should be a trick with scum having some options to play with it.
If we get 2 deaths, we can mostly assume that is what happened, though if a Vig or SK exists and actually made the 2nd kill, we would have to depend upon them then claiming in order to prevent charter from being wrongly 'confirmed'.
If we get 1 death and it is a power role that already softclaimed, it wont tell us anything. If it is a power role who

hasn't

claimed, I would tend to believe scum didn't kill in order to try to prevent charter from being confirmed.
I really don't like the odds on return should we have a town charter and only 1 death. We would have a dead power role and no information gained.
Now here all kind of WIFOM games could be played to trick scum up or trick ourselves up.
We can instruct our 2 softclaims to cast a random die, something like heads target charter, tails do nothing or target someone else. That accomplishes a few things.
First, they haven't claimed, so we don't know if they can target anyone or not in the first place. This adds to the random factor.
Second, if scum doesnt make a kill, hoping to discredit a confirm of charter if a power role dies, it is possible there will be a no kill.
Third, if charter is scum, he wont know who is doing the targeting in order to kill them to 'confirm' himself.

So...basically the best we can do is get the 2 softclaims to agree to flip a coin and target charter if it comes up heads. Even if you cant do it, and Jordan you better not say whether you can or not...
Then hope we get 2 deaths over the next night or two? The cost if we cant is that we will eventually be forced to decide to lynch charter or give the game over into his hands.
Of course we could end up with 2 PR targeting a town charter and both dying. Still, cant dictate who does it either.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

It's almost like my posts 162 and 170 don't exist. Except they do, you might not like my reasons but to suggest that that I didn't provide an explanation is a fabrication.

Those reasonings are nothing more than rehashes of ecto's points and I would have thought some new revelation would have come to you to suddenly make you stop lurking.

So instead of agreeing with arguments I found credible and acting upon that I should've continued lurking because I had nothing new to add to the discussion?

So as scum I'm defending a townie to do.... what?

Earn positive cred with MM and/or lynch a better townie since you can easily assume MM has a decent chance of getting himself lynched later anyways.

You don't seem to be defending yourself DDD merely brushing off votes with responses like:

Kirbyoshi gets -1 points for failing to use any of the phrases "blatant(ly)", "ham-handed", "brazen", or "unabashedly" in his post.

I defend myself by brushing off the points people raise as trivial, misinterpreted, or wrong. I'm not sure how I would defend myself otherwise.

[MonkeyMan576]

Alright, I'm going to shift gears here. Rather than picking apart Charter's game assessments, I want to examine the ramifications in general of his claim, how it can be proven, and a general town strategy to make use of it. If I have it right, he doesnt have to be smart, just alive if he is telling the truth.

Monkey, you said you had experience with it, so looking to hear you expound on the role in games you've played. The more I put thought to it, the more questions come up, and I think that some of them actually shouldn't be answered if he is town. Realize that this is a better MD discussion simply because of the ever present spectre of manipulating the argument to fit the game. Here's to objectivity.

So, if I understand this correctly, charter is claiming that anyone targeting him will die. If town, that is great for us as he can only die by being lynched. We get one more confirmed townie to endgame and we win. But, first we have to confirm charter's claim.
It seems the only opportunity is for a power role with targeting abilities to target charter and then die. Given charter's ability, for most roles that will be akin to trading a rook to save the queen. My hypothesis is that a power role targeting him and dying would confirm him as town. I cant fathom that scum would have that ability, then claim it for some reverse psychology ploy. It would make more sense for it to be a fake claim to

avoid

being targeted.
Now, of course, we have to confirm that the reason the power role died was indeed because of targeting. That should be a trick with scum having some options to play with it.
If we get 2 deaths, we can mostly assume that is what happened, though if a Vig or SK exists and actually made the 2nd kill, we would have to depend upon them then claiming in order to prevent charter from being wrongly 'confirmed'.
If we get 1 death and it is a power role that already softclaimed, it wont tell us anything. If it is a power role who

hasn't

claimed, I would tend to believe scum didn't kill in order to try to prevent charter from being confirmed.
I really don't like the odds on return should we have a town charter and only 1 death. We would have a dead power role and no information gained.
Now here all kind of WIFOM games could be played to trick scum up or trick ourselves up.
We can instruct our 2 softclaims to cast a random die, something like heads target charter, tails do nothing or target someone else. That accomplishes a few things.
First, they haven't claimed, so we don't know if they can target anyone or not in the first place. This adds to the random factor.
Second, if scum doesnt make a kill, hoping to discredit a confirm of charter if a power role dies, it is possible there will be a no kill.
Third, if charter is scum, he wont know who is doing the targeting in order to kill them to 'confirm' himself.

So...basically the best we can do is get the 2 softclaims to agree to flip a coin and target charter if it comes up heads. Even if you cant do it, and Jordan you better not say whether you can or not...
Then hope we get 2 deaths over the next night or two? The cost if we cant is that we will eventually be forced to decide to lynch charter or give the game over into his hands.
Of course we could end up with 2 PR targeting a town charter and both dying. Still, cant dictate who does it either.

There's a flaw in your plan. I'm a vanilla townie and can't target ANYONE. Jordan hasn't said weather he has a night action or not. Even if we could, sacrificing a townie to determine the alignment of a potential PGO is anti-town. Trading a non-power role townie for scum is acceptable, trading a townie to confirm another potential townie's claim is not. Even if someone were to die after they were instructed to target the PGO, there is no way to know with 100% certainty that that's what they died from. Sure, the evidence would be in favor of it, and that would be probably enough to lynch the PGO, but there are still ways clever scum could use it to their advantage. The better solution is to keep charter under the microscope, analyze who he votes for and doesn't vote for in relation to who ends up town and scum, and do our best to determine his alignment. If we get to endgame and three scum are dead and the game is over with a town victory, we know he is town. If there are two proven townies and him, we know he is obvscum. My point is, there are better ways to handle a PGO than to possibily lose someone over targeting him.