Mini 855: Colorless Rainbow Town (Halted for list mod error)

[Scien]

Saying that the Manzcar discussion was "boring".

It was boring. Manz generalized what you were saying, and I believe it was due to townish concerns. You stretched his meaning, I believe for townie concerns. The only think I got out of that is that you both are willing to fight for your concerns. But the actual points you were raising on each other I think were pretty much 'meh'.

Hence boring. Other's people's reactions with the situation at that time however were more interesting.

possibly trying to derail the Wagon with a Zeenon wagon

There is no wagon yet. I just want my questions answered. Where is Zeenon anyway?

giving Raivann "town points" for defending himself better, when he is clearly still behind on town points overall.

I gave him points for admiting a mistake. It would have been just as easy to come up with something of d3x's and called it scummy to justify his 'another scummy post' claim. Instead he owns up. Seems ok to me, and removes one of my criticisms of him. Townie points awarded. Or scum points removed... however you want to phrase it.

It's like saying someone is a good baseball player for batting .240, because he was batting .180 before.

Heh. I never said he was looking town now. More that he was looking more neutral these days.

Let's use your analogy. If our team is mostly batting .300, he was batting .100. He answered some questions, and removed a couple of my concerns. That raises him to batting .200. My votes not off him, because I want him to answer my new questions. When he does, that will most likely bump him up to .250 (the fuzzy townie read is still kinda negative in my mind). At that point there are people under .250 I want to look at and he is not worth my vote anymore.

[Dizzle]

FYI, it's Dizzle, not Drizzle. Common mistake, carry on.

[Scien]

My bad. I'll be more careful.

[MonkeyMan576]

Saying that the Manzcar discussion was "boring".

It was boring. Manz generalized what you were saying, and I believe it was due to townish concerns. You stretched his meaning, I believe for townie concerns. The only think I got out of that is that you both are willing to fight for your concerns. But the actual points you were raising on each other I think were pretty much 'meh'.

Hence boring. Other's people's reactions with the situation at that time however were more interesting.

possibly trying to derail the Wagon with a Zeenon wagon

There is no wagon yet. I just want my questions answered. Where is Zeenon anyway?

giving Raivann "town points" for defending himself better, when he is clearly still behind on town points overall.

I gave him points for admiting a mistake. It would have been just as easy to come up with something of d3x's and called it scummy to justify his 'another scummy post' claim. Instead he owns up. Seems ok to me, and removes one of my criticisms of him. Townie points awarded. Or scum points removed... however you want to phrase it.

It's like saying someone is a good baseball player for batting .240, because he was batting .180 before.

Heh. I never said he was looking town now. More that he was looking more neutral these days.

Let's use your analogy. If our team is mostly batting .300, he was batting .100. He answered some questions, and removed a couple of my concerns. That raises him to batting .200. My votes not off him, because I want him to answer my new questions. When he does, that will most likely bump him up to .250 (the fuzzy townie read is still kinda negative in my mind). At that point there are people under .250 I want to look at and he is not worth my vote anymore.

Well, I'm still suspicious of the buddying, although I agree Raivann might be bad town rather than scum. It's hard to tell at this point.

[Fuzzyman]

Does it really matter, though? From what I can tell, we're in twilight right now.

[Scien]

Uh wut?

[Fuzzyman]

Rai has unfortuantely said that he isn't having fun. As per the last rule, we're waiting for a modkill.

[Dizzle]

Oh right, good catch Fuzzy, I didn't know what ruleset you were talking about earlier either.

[Scien]

Woah. Number one, would that end the day?

Number two, do I detect a whiff that you are happy about this?

BTW I was aware of the rule. I was hoping it would be ignored... and he would play.

[Raivann]

I'm not having fun.

I strongly dislike WIFOM statements like this minor complaint or his earlier one that said we'd be sorry if we lynched his poor townie butt. If you're town, defend yourself and find the real scum. If you're scum, defend yourself and find a townie to lynch or a fellow scum to bus. As Scien has noted, Raivann has actually done a better job of defending himself recently, but don't waste our time with this nonsense.

No, this isn't WIFOM. Look at the final rule of the ruleset.

@MOD:

Please dont kill me!It was supposed to be funny.
Everyone knows that Wed. is opposite day anyway.

@MOD:

Do we get deadline ext.?

It is funny that I seem to ripped a new one no matter what I post though.

Take now for instance, if I talk with Scien I'm suspicious.
If I ask questions like would you support Zeenon lynch, I'm suspicious.
Which is a good question, BTW.

[Chinaman]

I appreciate Scien giving Raivann a chance, but he's agreeing with some stuff that is clearly scummy. Saying that the Manzcar discussion was "boring", possibly trying to derail the Wagon with a Zeenon wagon, giving Raivann "town points" for defending himself better, when he is clearly still behind on town points overall. It's like saying someone is a good baseball player for batting .240, because he was batting .180 before. I'm questioning the logic here, and the possibility of a Raivann/Scien scum team.

His VERY NEXT post

Well, I'm still suspicious of the buddying, although I agree Raivann might be bad town rather than scum. It's hard to tell at this point.

Talk about your flip-flop! That sounds like scum trying to cover their mislynching azz. Or am I just crazy? Hell, the only post in between those two post was from Scien.

Monkey wrote:
Saying that the Manzcar discussion was "boring".

It was boring. Manz generalized what you were saying, and I believe it was due to townish concerns. You stretched his meaning, I believe for townie concerns. The only think I got out of that is that you both are willing to fight for your concerns. But the actual points you were raising on each other I think were pretty much 'meh'.

Hence boring. Other's people's reactions with the situation at that time however were more interesting.

Monkey wrote:
possibly trying to derail the Wagon with a Zeenon wagon

There is no wagon yet. I just want my questions answered. Where is Zeenon anyway?

Monkey wrote:
giving Raivann "town points" for defending himself better, when he is clearly still behind on town points overall.

I gave him points for admiting a mistake. It would have been just as easy to come up with something of d3x's and called it scummy to justify his 'another scummy post' claim. Instead he owns up. Seems ok to me, and removes one of my criticisms of him. Townie points awarded. Or scum points removed... however you want to phrase it.

Monkey wrote:
It's like saying someone is a good baseball player for batting .240, because he was batting .180 before.

Heh. I never said he was looking town now. More that he was looking more neutral these days.

Let's use your analogy. If our team is mostly batting .300, he was batting .100. He answered some questions, and removed a couple of my concerns. That raises him to batting .200. My votes not off him, because I want him to answer my new questions. When he does, that will most likely bump him up to .250 (the fuzzy townie read is still kinda negative in my mind). At that point there are people under .250 I want to look at and he is not worth my vote anymore.

I don't like this play from MM at all. First off, I'm getting a town read from Scien at this point. Secondly, his is the only post in between the first quoted post from MM and the second. This is pretty much a scumslip in my eyes. Going to go back now and take a nice long look at MM. Before you go saying, "what, are we not aloud to change our minds" or some other similar post, note that I already explained why this wouldn't be ok (it's too quick in case you missed my above points). The other reason this wouldn't be ok, is because you didn't explain at all why you had such the sudden change of heart. Going from full throttle lynch someone to maybe they are town so quick just reeks of scum.

Also note: You say there is a possible scien/raivann team in one post then take Scien's explanation at face value the next? I don't even need to go back on you in order to

VOTE: MonkeyMan

....I am still going to though.

[Chinaman]

It seems my overview is taking longer than expected. I'll attempt to have it ready for tomorrow.

I took out the color for your viewing pleasure

Also, I don't like ZEE's lurking. Above is his last post posted on the 27th of Sept. I didn't care much for his posting to begin with (whether is was color or a scummy feeling I got from him I can't remember).

FoS: Zeenon

Going to do a re-read of him as well.

[MonkeyMan576]

I appreciate Scien giving Raivann a chance, but he's agreeing with some stuff that is clearly scummy. Saying that the Manzcar discussion was "boring", possibly trying to derail the Wagon with a Zeenon wagon, giving Raivann "town points" for defending himself better, when he is clearly still behind on town points overall. It's like saying someone is a good baseball player for batting .240, because he was batting .180 before. I'm questioning the logic here, and the possibility of a Raivann/Scien scum team.

His VERY NEXT post

Well, I'm still suspicious of the buddying, although I agree Raivann might be bad town rather than scum. It's hard to tell at this point.

Talk about your flip-flop! That sounds like scum trying to cover their mislynching azz. Or am I just crazy? Hell, the only post in between those two post was from Scien.

Monkey wrote:
Saying that the Manzcar discussion was "boring".

It was boring. Manz generalized what you were saying, and I believe it was due to townish concerns. You stretched his meaning, I believe for townie concerns. The only think I got out of that is that you both are willing to fight for your concerns. But the actual points you were raising on each other I think were pretty much 'meh'.

Hence boring. Other's people's reactions with the situation at that time however were more interesting.

Monkey wrote:
possibly trying to derail the Wagon with a Zeenon wagon

There is no wagon yet. I just want my questions answered. Where is Zeenon anyway?

Monkey wrote:
giving Raivann "town points" for defending himself better, when he is clearly still behind on town points overall.

I gave him points for admiting a mistake. It would have been just as easy to come up with something of d3x's and called it scummy to justify his 'another scummy post' claim. Instead he owns up. Seems ok to me, and removes one of my criticisms of him. Townie points awarded. Or scum points removed... however you want to phrase it.

Monkey wrote:
It's like saying someone is a good baseball player for batting .240, because he was batting .180 before.

Heh. I never said he was looking town now. More that he was looking more neutral these days.

Let's use your analogy. If our team is mostly batting .300, he was batting .100. He answered some questions, and removed a couple of my concerns. That raises him to batting .200. My votes not off him, because I want him to answer my new questions. When he does, that will most likely bump him up to .250 (the fuzzy townie read is still kinda negative in my mind). At that point there are people under .250 I want to look at and he is not worth my vote anymore.

I don't like this play from MM at all. First off, I'm getting a town read from Scien at this point. Secondly, his is the only post in between the first quoted post from MM and the second. This is pretty much a scumslip in my eyes. Going to go back now and take a nice long look at MM. Before you go saying, "what, are we not aloud to change our minds" or some other similar post, note that I already explained why this wouldn't be ok (it's too quick in case you missed my above points). The other reason this wouldn't be ok, is because you didn't explain at all why you had such the sudden change of heart. Going from full throttle lynch someone to maybe they are town so quick just reeks of scum.

Also note: You say there is a possible scien/raivann team in one post then take Scien's explanation at face value the next? I don't even need to go back on you in order to

VOTE: MonkeyMan

....I am still going to though.

I'm not against the Raivann lynch, I'm keeping options open for discussion. Scien raises some good points. You would have me stay on one person the whole time?

[Chinaman]

I would like you to explain how you can say "I'm questioning the logic here, and the possibility of a Raivann/Scien scum team. " then suddenly Scien (someone you just got done calling scum-mate with Raivann) makes some "good points" and all a sudden....

I think it's scummy. Hence my post. And I already told you that a simple post like the one you just posted was not gonna be a good enough explanation for me. Seriously...read the end of my post...I'll even re-post it for you.

Before you go saying, "what, are we not aloud to change our minds"

or some other similar post

, note that I already explained why this wouldn't be ok (it's too quick in case you missed my above points).

It's not adding up. I don't see how you say there's a possible team then take one of the persons on that team's post and say it had good points. If you thought there was a possible team, why would you even consider one of those people on that team that their post would be good advise or points? Shouldn't you take it with a large grain of salt? You would if you were town.

[Chinaman]

Oh, and I now realize there is some pretty bad grammar in the above post. Sorry all, but I think it's understandable. If not, I'll try and make it clear.

[MeMe]

Due to Josh Lyman's misfortune, StrangerCoug will be stepping in as your (possibly temporary) replacement moderator.

[MonkeyMan576]

I would like you to explain how you can say "I'm questioning the logic here, and the possibility of a Raivann/Scien scum team. " then suddenly Scien (someone you just got done calling scum-mate with Raivann) makes some "good points" and all a sudden....

I think it's scummy. Hence my post. And I already told you that a simple post like the one you just posted was not gonna be a good enough explanation for me. Seriously...read the end of my post...I'll even re-post it for you.

Before you go saying, "what, are we not aloud to change our minds"

or some other similar post

, note that I already explained why this wouldn't be ok (it's too quick in case you missed my above points).

It's not adding up. I don't see how you say there's a possible team then take one of the persons on that team's post and say it had good points. If you thought there was a possible team, why would you even consider one of those people on that team that their post would be good advise or points? Shouldn't you take it with a large grain of salt? You would if you were town.

It's called being on the fence. Not everything is always black and white. On the scum side of things, they could be a possible team, but if Raivann starts behaving more townish, then Scien's points could be valid.

[Scien]

Thanks for the replace StrangerCoug, and sorry to hear about your problems Josh if you read this.

But for the new mod, can we get a prod on Zee? I think we are at 5 days now?

Thanks.

Still want to hear from Raivann too.

[cruelty]

It is funny that I seem to ripped a new one no matter what I post though.

Take now for instance, if I talk with Scien I'm suspicious.
If I ask questions like would you support Zeenon lynch, I'm suspicious.
Which is a good question, BTW.

Huh. It's like you're pulling for some sympathy here. Sucks. Rather than feeling sorry for yourself (after all this is a game and I don't think anyone is deliberately picking on you or anything) how about changing your gameplay to more aggressively scumhunting? Withdrawing into your shell with woe is me posts just reinforces my confidence in my vote placement. If I'm wrong, prove me wrong.




I also tend to agree with Chinaman that MM is alarmingly easily swayed - I don't really understand how you can think two people are possibly a scum team, and then let one of them convince you that perhaps the other isn't scum at all. Changing tack like that is so horrifically dangerous to town..

[Raivann]

Hmm. That's almost fair too. Why did your views change?
I read d3x in Iso and his posts did seem protown.


Actually your answering so far helps a bunch. I would like answers for my d3x question as as well as why you were bored at game start. I am willing to unvote if you cooperate here.

Well for one I missed the RVS and the argument had already started, I don't think I got a post in until page 4.

[Raivann]

Oops quote fail. I actually answered your question in your quote Scien.

[MonkeyMan576]

It is funny that I seem to ripped a new one no matter what I post though.

Take now for instance, if I talk with Scien I'm suspicious.
If I ask questions like would you support Zeenon lynch, I'm suspicious.
Which is a good question, BTW.

Huh. It's like you're pulling for some sympathy here. Sucks. Rather than feeling sorry for yourself (after all this is a game and I don't think anyone is deliberately picking on you or anything) how about changing your gameplay to more aggressively scumhunting? Withdrawing into your shell with woe is me posts just reinforces my confidence in my vote placement. If I'm wrong, prove me wrong.




I also tend to agree with Chinaman that MM is alarmingly easily swayed - I don't really understand how you can think two people are possibly a scum team, and then let one of them convince you that perhaps the other isn't scum at all. Changing tack like that is so horrifically dangerous to town..

All I said is that I want to hear more from him. A lot of time's there can be a rush to judgement, especially on day 1, and players that don't present themselves well aren't scum, just players that don't present themselves well.

[Scien]

Both in line with what I suspect. I hope I didn't feed them to you. Please catch up on the game and participate. It looks like it is going to be awesome.

Unvote

Vote: Zee

Get the heck back in here and answer my questions/participate.

[StrangerCoug]

Posting to let you know that I'm here. I actually had this on watch since I picked up Josh Lyman's PM regarding his problems (he had to replace out of my game), but was debating whether to take over or not. Now I'm committed to this, so here I am. I'll prod ZEEnon.

Vote count when I have time—I have other stuff to check.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, first things first: I don't know how Josh Lyman was planning on telling everybody about dead players. I also don't know how he planned on dealing with modkills. Therefore, I am going to use my format for both:

Raivann, who was a

Mafia goon

, has been modkilled on Day 1 for stating he wasn't having fun.

I know, but Josh Lyman wants me to do this and he was serious about enforcing that. Any objections, yell at him. Day will keep going as per how I mod things.

VOTE COUNT

MonkeyMan576 1:

Chinaman (285)

ZEEnon 2:

Fuzzyman (100), Scien (297)

Not voting: Dizzle, Hero764, Skruffs, dvx, Zeenon, MonkeyMan576, cruelty

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.