/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832

[Goatrevolt]

I ended up being out all night. Tomorrow it is.

[TDC]

I will not state what I think of Spy's alignment.

Uh, what? You just moved him to the fucking safe floor. If the reason is NOT that you think he's town and want him to be safe from being night killing, then please, please tell me what is going on in your mind.

My question is at this point: what are you aiming for with this?

Am I scum? Is this a scum move? Why?

I don't really know where I'm going with this and I don't really see a scum motive for your behaviour.
I'd like to think you did it to avoid fl being lynched (that would at least somewhat associate you with her), but clearly she wasn't going to get lynched anyway. I agree with your assessment that you were not the most likely night kill on the planet, so pushing this as an excuse for not dying later on, isn't all that plausible either.

What is bugging me is that you agree that it wasn't all that helpful to move you, because you think you're more likely to get lynched thatn nightkilled and that the only evidence that she actually thought you were town is your gut (and she isn't even willing to back you up on that) - yet you never even asked her why she moved you and instead took it as confirmation of her being town.
I can't get my head around that.
I've asked that before, but how is her moving a townie (from your perspective) a confirmation of her being town? Moving scum makes no sense. Moving nobody makes her suspicious. Moving nobody but claiming to have moved scum ties her to her buddies.
Moving townies that are not widely seen as town and hence unlikely to get nightkilled, and can be lynched later on, would seem to be the optimal scum move to me.
Now what would your motivation be to confirm town-fl if you are scum? None.
But if you're both scum, why do this whole claim-thing at all?
On the other hand, if I was in your shoes, I'd (if I did claim at that point, which I wouldn't), sure ask her why, of all people, she moved me?
In fact, if I did claim, then probably only to ask her that question..

It just makes no sense either way and you don't really seem interested in explaining it.

A partial reread really didnt help too much. GR moved up my scum list for reasons I need to go look at closer over the next few days, and I am still thinking LG-TDC is a town-scum but am not sure which all that much. Im almost to the point where I think its one of GR-spy, one of TCD-LG, and one that im missing.

I assume LG-me is still because we're both soooo scummy but can't be scum together?
But what's with GR and SpyreX? Why can't they have the same alignment?

[forbiddanlight]

Uh, what? You just moved him to the fucking safe floor. If the reason is NOT that you think he's town and want him to be safe from being night killing, then please, please tell me what is going on in your mind.

I find it more wise to keep it unknown, so scum are not sure if I'm trying to move them or move town. Of course, if you think this course of action unwise, I'm fully willing to listen

This is to anyone, btw

I've asked that before, but how is her moving a townie (from your perspective) a confirmation of her being town? Moving scum makes no sense. Moving nobody makes her suspicious.

Moving scum actually does have an advantage, I just don't think it's greater than the advantage of moving town.

Or so I say.

[TDC]

Okay, suppose you think SpyreX is scum.
Why do you not tell us about it and get him lynched? Assuming you already thought so yesterday, why did you not tell us about it yesterday?
How is moving him to the safe floor and thus barring him from sending in a kill (starting tomorrow) better than that?

I can hence only conclude that you think he is town.

If your aim is to keep secret who is moved, why no reaction on SpyreX spoiling the plan?

[forbiddanlight]

He did what he did. I can't stop him retroactively and claiming I didn't move him would only make things worse.

In the future, I think it would be wise to keep my targets secret though, yes.

Further, I understand your logic about that.

So yes, I do think SpyreX is town.

I apologize for the mysteriousness...I'm wary of giving up too much information in this scenario.

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day Three Vote Count #3

1 – Elmo (Battousai)
1 – Lord Gurgi (Elmo)
1 – SpyreX (Debonair Danny DiPietro)
1 – TDC (SpyreX)

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch and

3

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is October 10, 9:59 pm CDT.

Not Voting – 5 – forbiddanlight, Goatrevolt, LlamaFluff, Lord Gurgi, TDC

---

LOCK COUNT

6 – Green (Goatrevolt, Lord Gurgi, forbiddanlight, SpyreX, Debonair Danny DiPietro, LlamaFluff)
0 – Blue
0 – Red
0 – Yellow

Not Locking – 3 – Battousai, Elmo, TDC

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lock a floor.

At nightfall, the floor to be locked is: GREEN.

[LlamaFluff]

A partial reread really didnt help too much. GR moved up my scum list for reasons I need to go look at closer over the next few days, and I am still thinking LG-TDC is a town-scum but am not sure which all that much. Im almost to the point where I think its one of GR-spy, one of TCD-LG, and one that im missing.

I assume LG-me is still because we're both soooo scummy but can't be scum together?

You are actually both just bugging me right now. I still dont think I have seen much concrete from you in the suspicion game, or at least less then I would expect at this point in the game. Something about how LG is playing though is sort of reminding me of how I used to play as scum, picking someone and pushing them enough to appear to be scumhunting, but not enough to get them lynched and take heat for it.

But what's with GR and SpyreX? Why can't they have the same alignment?

Gut is telling me they arent scum together, but also that they are not both town. I would expect both scum before both town. I thought GR was saying spy was scummy earlier today, which apparently he didnt, so I could see that pairing actually existing. Maybe I want to see it exist because it supplements my town reads somewhat.

[SpyreX]

There's two options from my point with FL:

FL is a scum bellhop that is limiting their choices by moving people to the correct floor while not knowing if OTHERS were on the floor meaning that they could create a scenario where if we lynch her buddies then, whoops, screwed.

FL is a town bellhop doing the above because it is town driven. By stating that I've been moved and her confirming it there is no wiggle room for MADNESS later.

Further, by the absence of anyone ELSE being moved unless we have a scum bellhop moving buddies OFF green (which is still fine, considering) a town could have spoken up and said "ohh snap, I was also moved too" and we'd know whats going on.

So, end result?

Fl is town. Another hop can no longer claim, period. That is death.

What is still missing is anything resembling TDC going after scum in this scenario though.

And if GR is scum he has me floored and has from the earliest point.

[Battousai]

Okay, suppose you think SpyreX is scum.
Why do you not tell us about it and get him lynched? Assuming you already thought so yesterday, why did you not tell us about it yesterday?
How is moving him to the safe floor and thus barring him from sending in a kill (starting tomorrow) better than that?

I can hence only conclude that you think he is town.

If your aim is to keep secret who is moved, why no reaction on SpyreX spoiling the plan?

Why no reaction on TDC telling everyone that you think SpyreX is town? Ok, SpyreX claiming took most of the mystery out of Fl's night action, but you are trying to get rid of the rest of the mystery.

[forbiddanlight]

Why no reaction on TDC telling everyone that you think SpyreX is town? Ok, SpyreX claiming took most of the mystery out of Fl's night action, but you are trying to get rid of the rest of the mystery.

Again, he did it. I can't stop it, and honestly, he's right. The logic was obvious. It was good of him to reveal it.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm feeling directionless just at the moment. It seems like the people I've seen as scummy, primarily DDD and LF, everyone else is simply uninterested in. Now that I think about it, I'm surprised that FL isn't trying to lead the town more. You're not even voting, FL, I just don't get it. Honestly, I've seen more of what needs to be said being said by Elmo and TDC than the practically confirmed townie. This feels sort of like a rant, I'm not sure where I'm going with it. Generic whining, I suppose. I suppose I should vote, but I don't see a purpose in voting when everyone knows who I want dead but couldn't care less. Might do a reread of SpyreX in the next day or two, if I start to get over this cold. Maybe join a fun-time popular wagon.

Batt: I don't get the Elmo wagon. If you find so much issue with TDC, why Elmo? Could you explain to me why I should get on wagons against the two people that are actually saying what should be said?

DDD: Could you just drop a quick list of stuff against SpyreX if you haven't already? It'll help if I have some direction in my reread.

Seems like the people with apparently strong convictions, like LF or TDC, should be voting. Particularly LF, who has dropped more names in relation to scum than anyone.

While I'm whining, Elmo have you gotten anything off your vote on me? I might as well defend myself from something if I'm not going to bother attacking. If not, what are your plans? Do you have plans? Maybe that was rude. Is it bad that I think it's not terrible to be rude with you even though I like you personally? I should probably go to sleep.

Am I harping too much on LF? I just feel like unless I point out that he does these things, everyone will just go along and notice.

Brainpuke over.

[Battousai]

I found more issue with Elmo than TDC. If you are referring to my recent post, it is because TDC is actually posting after I placed my vote whereas Elmo hasn't.

Tell me, what is TDC and Elmo saying when they choose not to vote at the end of the day?

[TDC]

There's two options from my point with FL:

FL is a scum bellhop that is limiting their choices by moving people to the correct floor while not knowing if OTHERS were on the floor meaning that they could create a scenario where if we lynch her buddies then, whoops, screwed.

FL is a town bellhop doing the above because it is town driven. By stating that I've been moved and her confirming it there is no wiggle room for MADNESS later.

Further, by the absence of anyone ELSE being moved unless we have a scum bellhop moving buddies OFF green (which is still fine, considering) a town could have spoken up and said "ohh snap, I was also moved too" and we'd know whats going on.

Can you please actually answer the question?
What would you expect FL the scum bellhop to do instead of moving you?
Moving scum makes no sense.
Moving nobody looks bad.
Moving someone who is widely considered town indeed limits her options.
You on the other hand, claim about yourself that you're an easy lynch and not a likely nightkill.

Is it really that hard to follow my train of thought here?

FL: Is there any particular reason why you're not telling us

why

you think SpyreX is town? Do you fear that it would be too easy to conclude whom else you find town if you did?

[TDC]

Gurgi: What do you mean with Elmo says what's needed to be said?
Or rather, which of his four posts could you mean?
The vote on you that came without reason?
The requoted question to fl, which fl still hasn't answered and Elmo hasn't followed up on?
The picture?
The question why DDD thinks it's pathetic that we didn't vote?

[Goatrevolt]

Ugh, sorry was out again tonight.

This is going to be a busy weekend. I'm going to try to set aside time tomorrow otherwise I don't see myself getting around to this thread until Sunday.

[SpyreX]

@Gurgi: DDD did. It was meta. Huzzah! I haven't lost sight of LF either I'm just embroiled in my own madness.

Can you please actually answer the question?
What would you expect FL the scum bellhop to do instead of moving you?
Moving scum makes no sense.
Moving nobody looks bad.
Moving someone who is widely considered town indeed limits her options.
You on the other hand, claim about yourself that you're an easy lynch and not a likely nightkill.

Is it really that hard to follow my train of thought here?

Apparently it is. What question haven't I answered?

If I were a scum bellhop that jumped out and claimed early I'd either be moving my partners to where they could perform the kill or not moving anyone - the chances of all the players doing a go/no go check are minimal and even then you can push a mislynch out of it without screwing your partners.

And where did I say I was an "easy" lynch. Never that. My being vocal and wrong thus far makes me a mislynch target but that != an easy kill.

However, once again, scum. Find them. Or say I'm scum. Whatever. Take a stance.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Gurgi: DDD did. It was meta. Huzzah! I haven't lost sight of LF either I'm just embroiled in my own madness.

Don't forget that you were on both mislynches. Now granted so were three other people, but that doesn't mean we ignore your hand in them.

[SpyreX]

Hence my absolute distaste for the fact the wagons are so small. Normally, yea, I'd be all over the wagon. But, when a wagon is as apathetic as these have been?

Blah.

But, if its meta + both mislynches the case well there isn't too much to refute except for the fact your conclusion is wrong.

[Goatrevolt]

Going to start the read through right now....

[forbiddanlight]

LG 810: I probably should but...it's really hard to care...it's like we are falling short of the critical mass for an interesting game. And it irritates me...

FL: Is there any particular reason why you're not telling us why you think SpyreX is town? Do you fear that it would be too easy to conclude whom else you find town if you did?

Not really. It was a gut call. More precisely he feels like he's acting the same way he's acted as town in a certain game I modded.

Though it doesn't look like we made an UNBREAKABLE ALLIANCE this time

[petroleumjelly]

Elmo has been prodded.

[Battousai]

Good, I want him to explain his actions better.

[Elmo]

Explain what better? You haven't asked me to explain anything.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The question why DDD thinks it's pathetic that we didn't vote?

Because it's nothing more than a glorified surrender. If you thought the Nuwen lynch was a good one then you should've been behind it and voting, if you thought it was a bad lynch then you should've been voting someone else trying to push your own candidate or find a viable alternative. You willfully deprived the town of useful information and essentially facilitated the lynch of a townie without having to put your neck out to get it. That’s why it was pathetic.

[Elmo]

If you thought the Nuwen lynch was a good one then you should've been behind it and voting, if you thought it was a bad lynch then you should've been voting someone else trying to push your own candidate or find a viable alternative.

And this lynch should fit clearly into those two categories? I thought it was dubious at best, but not outright terrible. I did think she was mildly townish, and I said so at the time. If you would have liked me to do one or the other, then you should have talked to me at the time and we could have discussed it, instead of you informing me of your preferences well past the point where I can do anything about it.

And I am

not

going to defend Nuwen, either directly or indirectly by pushing a counter-wagon for the purposes of a counter-wagon, without a reasonably strong town read on her.