Newbie 843 (Game Over)

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Post Post #150 (ISO) » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:40 pm

Post by manho »

WrathofShadows wrote:I don't make a vote unless i have what i conceive to be concrete reason.
WrathofShadows wrote:I admit that my vote is 25% retaliation. But still it strikes me odd that he's so focused on one or two people (mainly manho, tubby and me) which accounts for the other 75% of why i placed my vote the way i did. I've got three ideas for scum at this point.
i don't think 75% is concrete. and focusing on 3 people in a review is not a concrete reason for voting someone, especially when you say you rarely vote. so,
vote: Wrath
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Post Post #151 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:35 am

Post by EtherealCookie »

Someone just randomly comes into the defense of Wrath and votes for me with a terrible reason to, as well. It was already obvious Wrath's reason for voting for me was just a retaliation. Funny you support him. Hmmm. If Wrath gets lynched and shows scum, I'll know who to look into next.
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Post Post #152 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:56 am

Post by WrathofShadows »

EtherealCookie wrote:Someone just randomly comes into the defense of Wrath and votes for me with a terrible reason to, as well. It was already obvious Wrath's reason for voting for me was just a retaliation. Funny you support him. Hmmm. If Wrath gets lynched and shows scum, I'll know who to look into next.
You know, I don't see why you think it's random that someone would come to the defense of someone else. If someone thinks another person is town, they'd come to that person's aid if they were being slandered/targeted (or at least i'd hope people would be nice enough to do that on a regular basis).

It interests me that you're trying SO HARD to make my arguments sound trivial, despite the fact that YOUR OWN WORDING implies that its your opinion that my reasons suck.

I stated my reason's, i'd like to think i explained them well enough (at least it made sense to at least one other person..) and then Pianist decided to voice his opinions on the subject as well.

It's getting more and more suspicious that you've centered on me as the main target, so I'm leaving my vote right where I had it.
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Post Post #153 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:21 pm

Post by EtherealCookie »

And it's suspicious that his defense for you seemed hardly reasonable. Secondly, the fact he voted me is more suspicious. If he just defended against my points, I'd be fine with that. But the fact he voted for me, along with the fact
you
voted for me with the reasoning that 25% of it was retaliation, when NONE of it should be retaliation, is suspicious.

I admit that my vote is 25% retaliation. But still it strikes me odd that he's so focused on one or two people (mainly manho, tubby and me) which accounts for the other 75% of why i placed my vote the way i did. I've got three ideas for scum at this point.
I'm pretty sure people've already mentioned this: The others don't seem as scummy or haven't posted yet. Hell, I've already mentioned it.
The town creates the "reasons." The scum just have to grab on to those reasons and add a few of their own. Have you played as scum before? (Sorry if that was already answered)
Uhm. Yes. One game off these forums that was poorly done. Secondly, have you ever seen scum grab onto the reasons? It's a bit obvious. They have poor reasoning for why they agree, other than "What he said." They don't bring anything new for suddenly switching the vote as soon as a band wagon starts.
Where did he say he knew it wasn't going to be a tell? The brush-off was after Manho responded (or at least that's what Wrath implied).
Regardless, that was a very pointless post. Even if it didn't get brushed off, how exactly was it going to reveal anything?
So when you're town you don't proofread your posts to see if anything suspicious pops out at you?
Of course I do. But I don't point out what will catch attention and what won't. What's he trying to do, give tips for Mafia? Not to mention it was one of the first posts, and he's already thinking about catching attention.
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Post Post #154 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:30 pm

Post by WrathofShadows »

You must be running out of ammo if you're just going to keep rehashing the same things over and over again. Starting to seem like you want to force a lynch and get me out of your hair..

Now, I was under the impression that this was explained, but since you need more clarification, here it is. I DID NOT expect to get brushed off with that maneuver, I expected some sort of response I could try to get some insight off of. But just to let you know, sometimes "No Answer" is an answer.

And by the way, everyone votes out of retaliation to some extent, i'm just intelligent enough to realize why I'm doing what I'm doing and NOT TRY TO HIDE IT. And while I'm at it, I'd think that everyone who's composing a post would think about any repurcussions that post may create. Regardless of the timing of the post in question.
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Post Post #155 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:07 pm

Post by Meji Fan »

Hmmm. manho seems to be pretty willing to change votes and vote for the new popular thing . . . see tubby and now Wrath

Interesting

unvote, vote manho
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Post Post #156 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:03 pm

Post by crazypianist1116 »

EtherealCookie wrote:Someone just randomly comes into the defense of Wrath and votes for me with a terrible reason to, as well. It was already obvious Wrath's reason for voting for me was just a retaliation. Funny you support him. Hmmm. If Wrath gets lynched and shows scum, I'll know who to look into next.
In case you didn't notice, I wasn't defending Wrath, I was critiquing your arguments which held no water.
EtherealCookie wrote:
crazypianist1116 wrote:The town creates the "reasons." The scum just have to grab on to those reasons
and add a few of their own.
Have you played as scum before? (Sorry if that was already answered)
Uhm. Yes. One game off these forums that was poorly done. Secondly, have you ever seen scum grab onto the reasons? It's a bit obvious. They have poor reasoning for why they agree, other than "What he said." They don't bring anything new for suddenly switching the vote as soon as a band wagon starts.
See bolded. Additionally, mafia aren't the only ones who make slips. If they're good scumhunters in the first place they'll realize what's scummy about the townies' posts.
EtherealCookie wrote:
crazypianist1116 wrote:Where did he say he knew it wasn't going to be a tell? The brush-off was after Manho responded (or at least that's what Wrath implied).
Regardless, that was a very pointless post. Even if it didn't get brushed off, how exactly was it going to reveal anything?
Regardless, you're moving the target.

Finally the if I were mafia comment was just bad. What I would and wouldn't is WIFOM.

My vote stands.
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Post Post #157 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:37 pm

Post by EtherealCookie »

WrathofShadows wrote:You must be running out of ammo if you're just going to keep rehashing the same things over and over again. Starting to seem like you want to force a lynch and get me out of your hair..

Now, I was under the impression that this was explained, but since you need more clarification, here it is. I DID NOT expect to get brushed off with that maneuver, I expected some sort of response I could try to get some insight off of. But just to let you know, sometimes "No Answer" is an answer.

And by the way, everyone votes out of retaliation to some extent, i'm just intelligent enough to realize why I'm doing what I'm doing and NOT TRY TO HIDE IT. And while I'm at it, I'd think that everyone who's composing a post would think about any repurcussions that post may create. Regardless of the timing of the post in question.
I have to repeat myself because you're claiming I'm suspicious for focusing on a few people, and I've already stated the reason for that, which you fail to acknowledge. And once again, I fail to see what insight you could get out of it. It's like FoSing someone just so it looks like you're contributing into scum-hunting.

Anyhow.
My vote is remaining on Wrath.
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Post Post #158 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:10 am

Post by manho »

Meji Fan wrote:Hmmm. manho seems to be pretty willing to change votes and vote for the new popular thing . . . see tubby and now Wrath

Interesting

unvote, vote manho
bandwagon and pressure is good in D1, as it can get reaction from others, especially those who are likely to be scum. my vote on tubby is an asking for respond vote.
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Post Post #159 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:58 am

Post by Zachrulez »

I don't really see any problem with Manho's Wraith vote. I can understand the reasoning for it and his vote for Tubby was much earlier in the game.
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Post Post #160 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:42 am

Post by Meji Fan »

Can you elaborate then on your case on Wrath? Im not wholly following it

And since Wrath hasnt replied to you since your vote, doesnt seem he is seeing it either
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Post Post #161 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:36 am

Post by WrathofShadows »

Thanks for bringing that up, Meji, I'd actually forgotten that Manho had voted me up at all..

On reading through that post, I don't really see anything I can really comment on that I haven't already explained, and I'm not big on repeating myself.

So far, there doesn't seem to be anything new to comment on, but then Zach generally just uses one-liner posts and we haven't heard much from Soyasushi lately at all..
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Post Post #162 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:35 pm

Post by manho »

manho wrote:
WrathofShadows wrote:I don't make a vote unless i have what i conceive to be concrete reason.
WrathofShadows wrote:I admit that my vote is 25% retaliation. But still it strikes me odd that he's so focused on one or two people (mainly manho, tubby and me) which accounts for the other 75% of why i placed my vote the way i did. I've got three ideas for scum at this point.
i don't think 75% is concrete. and focusing on 3 people in a review is not a concrete reason for voting someone, especially when you say you rarely vote. so,
vote: Wrath
Wrath's vote on EtherealCookie is 25% OMGUS and 75% for him focusing on 3 people, which is not a scum tell. so, wrath's vote didn't have much basis but OMGUS, which is scummy. and that he said before that he won't vote without concrete reason, which lead to inconsistence, which is also scummy.
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Post Post #163 (ISO) » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:07 am

Post by EtherealCookie »

Manho brings up a very good point.
WrathofShadows wrote:I admit that my vote is 25% retaliation. But still it strikes me odd that he's so focused on one or two people (mainly manho, tubby and me) which accounts for the other 75% of why i placed my vote the way i did. I've got three ideas for scum at this point.
WrathofShadows wrote:I don't make a vote unless i have what i conceive to be concrete reason.
Huh?
Are you
sure
it's only 25% retaliation?
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Post Post #164 (ISO) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:46 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

Unvote, Vote: Wraith


Not wanting people to do scumlists is a style of play that tends to stifle scumhunting and is an anti-town position. Sure, the scum could take advantage of information we discuss, but scum have the advantage anyway. Discussion is vital to the town's success, and scumlists are one of the best ways a lot of players find to communicate their stances.

I am also disliking how suddenly suspicious he became of ethereal only after Ethereal voted for him. I'd be interested to know what Wraith thought of Ethereal before Ethereal voted for him, but that presents the problem of whether I could take Wraith at his word for it.
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Post Post #165 (ISO) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by Meji Fan »

Okay, I went back and looked over this whole crazy scumlist battle and the Wrath/Cookie war

Zach / Cookie - do note on the scumlist topic

tubby - good, but near the end of the day
manho - bit anti-town
myself - you have to decide yourself
soyasuhi - doesnt seem to have an opinion (was asking)

Zach + Cookie - like scumlists

Hardly unaminous support, I hardly find the opinion that scumlists are less helpful to be a great scumtell

That said - lets look at Wrath's posts

55 - nothing, says net down
59 - says the discussion could be interesting, but doesnt share any of these interesting insights. Also assures me he knows of the scum lurk bit (which I said I didnt suspect him of really)
65 - Assures me AGAIN (ookay. Im sure my 61 wasnt that accusatory), answers soyasushi's question, says starting discussion is pro-town
66 - cant post much
82 - FoS Manho . . for no discerned reason to gather response? (I question in 83)
92 - not doing anything suspicious makes you suspicious? Right, a version of the too-townie fallacy almost? Also doesnt like scumlists
95 - more on not liking scumlists
103 - votes only when concrete. Arguing with Zach on scumlists and Zach saying he isnt scum hunting really

And then in 131 the Cookie go round begins!
And his main focus in 131 is 'Cookie is smart and charismatic, and has other options, so why me?'

Im not to terribly impressed . . . especially with his, uh, not one shred of suspicion generated toward ANYONE in the previous 6 posts (not counting the net down one), the FoS Manho doesnt count, since didnt give any reason for suspicion (and blatantly said, in the post where he FoSed, just to see reaction)

I am beginning to think yeah, we have our scum here

We need a votecount <b>Mod, votecount please</b>

But Im happy with Wrath now, just dont want to accidentally hammer before the 'good at end of day' scumlists appear
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Post Post #166 (ISO) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:41 pm

Post by Meji Fan »

[EBWOP b]Mod, votecount please[/b]
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Post Post #167 (ISO) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:41 pm

Post by Meji Fan »

Oh for the love of tags,
Mod, votecount please
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Post Post #168 (ISO) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:15 am

Post by Soyasushi »

Apologies. Trying to catch up now, though it looks hard. ._.

Meh, this'll take a while...

So far from what I've seen, however, yernab still looks suspicious in my eyes, but from the current voting pattern, he doesn't seem to be very much suspected by the others. I guess I'll have to do a reread to see why Wrath is so targetted at the current moment.

Mod: May I request for a prod on yernab?
I only play one game at a time, until further notice.
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Post Post #169 (ISO) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:13 am

Post by tubby216 »

re-reading thoughts soon
"I swear tubby is scum in every game I've read, even some of the ones he wasn't in. "~Vi
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Post Post #170 (ISO) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:42 pm

Post by hohum »

Official Vote Count:

WrathOfShadows(3): EtherealCookie, manho, Zachrulez

yernab(2): Soyasushi, tubby216
EtherealCookie(2): WrathofShadows, crazypianist1116
manho(1): yernab, Meji Fan

Not Voting(0):

With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch
Last edited by hohum on Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #171 (ISO) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:43 pm

Post by hohum »

bjl replaces yernab
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Post Post #172 (ISO) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:49 pm

Post by bjl »

/confirm

and
Unvote
because I believe yernab had a vote out there. let me get caught up. It may not be until tomorrow morning before I have anything substantial to post, though.
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Post Post #173 (ISO) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:28 pm

Post by EtherealCookie »

Mod: When is the deadline?
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Post Post #174 (ISO) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:39 pm

Post by Soyasushi »

tubby216 wrote:re-reading thoughts soon
That's like the 3rd time you've said that, but you never got around to doing it, eh.

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