Mini 852- Crayola Catastrophe Game Over (Post 1158)

[ZazieR]

I have a question for you people: what did scum gain by snow_bunny's hammer?

You really need us to answer this? Ok...

Snow, unless she has some role-revealing role, would not have known that SOG was Jester. If she was scum, which most of us believe she was/you are, scum didn't really "gain" anything. Rather, they lost something they're glad to be rid of; a voter, who could assist in lynching them, and a vocal player (remembering they/y'all had no idea he wasn't scum), who could build up cases against them.

See, the more I think about it, the less I think this really holds. I firmly believe that by that point the semioldguy lynch was inevitable. If this is the case, then surely all the town lost was time. The scum gained, in essence, a slightly shorter day: an advantage, but not one that merits the risk snowbunny is taking by hammering.

This. Which is why the 'no color in vote post' isn't valid in my opinion.

[ChiboSempai]

Zazier, why exactly do you believe Shanba isn't scum? Do you think his reasonings (posts) this day are just legitimately good?

Even though all mafia gained from the SoG lynch (besides them voting for someone they knew wasn't another mafia member and potentially town) was more time. SB joined not too long ago (1 month, 4 days ago) and I would think it's a very common noob scum tactic to instantly hammer whoever is not scum when the opportunity arises. Perhaps it was her first time in a scum role?

[ZazieR]

*Some of the things zazie said I don't agree with, I wasn't particularly in agreement with his scumlist in post160.

During which read?
And since when is disagreement a scumtell? Because if it is, many players in my games are scum
(Inkt is gone ._.)

I don't understand why zazie is so different in some games -- zazie, can you explain why you either lurk to replacement or go into spam overdrive?

If I can stay uptodate with a game, you'll get 'spam'. If not due to RL, you'll get 'lurky' in which I try to catch up. But I always stall the read as long as possible. Which leads to my replacement most of the time ._. Trying to change that though.
Is this important?

Also, how come you make many statements, but don't address the reasons made by the players about these statements?

[ZazieR]

Regarding this post from Elvis:
-I think both would want to lynch the jester, but townies more. The jester is a distraction for the town which is useful for a lynch and it's still a free lynch for the scum.
-SoG was acting scummy.
-His strategy was to attack players for reasons that would make him look scummy.

Why didn't you answer questions 1 and 3?

[SocioPath]

ooh, I've managed to slightly shock shanba.

Noted that this was the only thing you had to say in response to Post 345

Humorous, considering:

Wow, I think this is the first post I disagree with Socio.

Noted that this was the only thing you had to say in response to Post 337.

If correct, everybody has posted after the lynch. So I'm curious:
How come nobody asked what a jester is and how it already won?

This question should be answered in this queue:
First - Chibo and Nacho
Second - GD and Kirby
Third - Pome, Socio and Budja.

Doesn't matter when you answer, as long as the those mentioned before your group answered before your group.

I refuse to answer that question based on that it is dumb.

I agree with EK in that this was not necessary, and also a bit scummy, but I don't like her last sentence. Why do you think this, EK?

I don't think shanba is obvtown or anything. But the fact that chibo seems to be rolefishing hard makes me think shanba

may

be town. You know, that he's the victim of rolefishing-scum-chibo.

Perhaps Chobo is too new to know otherwise.

Seems this isn't the case as he just pointed out he has played before. Thoughts about his rolefishing?

Playing a few games is different than knowing what to do in them. Knowing a few roles is different than knowing how to play them.

[Pomegranate]

So you would recommend to the town to lynch you immediately if Shanba turns up pro-town, right? If not, why not. Being that confident in scum or not-scum suggests something more than just a vanilla townie.

Actually, I disagree with this. See Glork's play for example. Players often deliberately overstate their degree of confidence. Plus, some people do just become really convinced they're right.

I agree with this; sometimes people are more confident than they should be(, which in general isn't a good thing).

LEt's just compromise and lynch pome.

You seem kinda rushing to lynch me in this post. Why is that? Isn't more discussion a better thing for the town?

*Well, he based a somewhat random vote based off of it, so I thought he'd looked at it correctly. Also, I knew it was likely it was a typo, and that's why I asked him. I didn't mean to accuse him; I wanted him to clarify that he hadn't twisted my words.

But you didn't ask

if

I twisted your words; you asked

why

. There's a difference there. I don't find you scummy for it, I'm just pointing it out.

I asked you 'why' because you did. Saying 'if' would imply that you mayor may not had, which wasn't true.

But is "twisting words" really the same as committing a simple typo?

I meant it that way at the time; I was asking why my words were changed.

If correct, everybody has posted after the lynch. So I'm curious:
How come nobody asked what a jester is and how it already won?

This question should be answered in this queue:
First - Chibo and Nacho
Second - GD and Kirby
Third - Pome, Socio and Budja.

Doesn't matter when you answer, as long as the those mentioned before your group answered before your group.

I don't understand the question.

While deciding who to vote in D1, we don't have much to go off of, nothing has really happened yet. Move forward to D2 however, and we have the voting procedure leading to the lynching of SoG from D1, the night kill, and the morning reactions. All of these things together point directly at Shanba.

How are all these pointing towards Shanba?

I agree with this- all that points toward him is the hammer(, or lynch in general) D1, but I am still suspicious of Shanba.

I have a question for you people: what did scum gain by snow_bunny's hammer?

Earlier end of day, meaning less discussion.
Easy target next day if

SB/Shanba isn't scum, which I think is the case

.

Why?

[ZazieR]

I said 5 posts because I wanted to see how he would respond. If he spammed 5 posts, then I'd know he was in a rush to get the votes off me. If he made 5 content-filled posts, I'd view him as more pro-town. If he make 5 semi-spammy posts, I'd count that as a point against him. In giving him more freedom in how to respond, I gain more information.

Why did I leave SoG's second vote out of my analysis... Because I didn't notice it, maybe? I am human, y'know.

SoG was mainly focusing on you, you were mainly focusing on him. Congratulations, we're back to square one. Oh, and you mentioned other people every now and then, but nothing even kind of significant.

In response to the bit about Josh, you still wanted more content from Josh when you unvoted. Which you haven't explained yet why you did that.
You missed the second vote? In Post 256, I give two links to the posts where SoG voted me. In Post 257, you state that SoG's

first

vote was possibly a pressure vote. Explanation?
Of course I mentioned SoG the most in my posts. He was my top suspect? However, I did point most (If not everything) out that struck me as scummy from other players.

Can't say why that post activated my gut. It just did

[ZazieR]

Unvote

as promised. But I still want more content.

@Snow Bunny:

1) To me, vote patterns (how much you vote) are null-tells. You can vote for one person because you find them the scummiest, or you can vote for multiple because you believe in pressure voting.

2) Did you read my bit on SoG's hypocrisy? If so, what do you think about it?

3) Not necessarily stretching. Pointing FoSes without votes down suggests a fear to have to explain a vote.

4) Self-preservation isn't scummy either. If you are a townie and are trying to avoid being lynched, defending yourself and starting a bandwagon against someone else is preventing a mislynch, which is pro-town.

You voted Josh for more content, but here you unote him, eventhough you want more content? Yep, needs some explanations.

And why did you respond before SoG did?

But did I ask for posts or content? Hmm...

You asked for posts

[ZazieR]

The case against me is as follows:

Unspecified Snow_bunny scumminess
Snow_Bunny's hammer
I'm buddying up to chamber
I used a scumtell that EK and others disagree with
I've laid out too much detail on who I think is scum and not enough on who I think is town?

+Bunny Being replaced for no apparent reason.

Is her allignment revealed in the games she did stay?

[ZazieR]

No comments on my catch-up post?



I worked so hard.

Well, I did ^.^ (At least, the part aimed at me)

[ZazieR]

Scummy:
Pome
*Generally does nothing, her posts amount to active lurking as she says nothing in them

She explained that as being caused be school and religion. I started to press her on it and she explained that she had a lot on her plate with her holidays. Which is believable.

Active Lurking isn't the same as Lurking.

[elvis_knits]

zazie, your posting is really rubbing me the wrong way how you seem to ask about stuff that is in some cases seems really obvious, and in others seems completely inconsequential.

It's making me not even want to answer anything that you've written because I have to sift through so much stupid stuff.

[Shanba]

Perhaps EK is successfully buddying up to me (but why do that when she could simply get me lynched instead) but I'm going very cold on thinking she is scum. I'm cooling on chibosempai too. I may need to give this game another once over.

Unvote, Vote: budja

[Pomegranate]

You forgot to bold your vote.

[elvis_knits]

Shanba, I thought you were scum at first but changed my mind. I really don't think you would saying "Chibo's not rolefishing" or "Don't hold chibo responsible for my lynch when I flip town" if you were scum. It would be totally easy for you to bury Chibo, or atleast throw some doubt his way, but you're not doing that. And I sure as hell would if I were you and I were scum.

I really want to turn your budja vote into a wagon but pome still isn't scum hunting so I can't unvote her

[ChiboSempai]

Read through all of Shanba's posts today and ask yourself is he:
1)Is legitimately posting like he is town and trying to fix his reputation from SB
2)Is mafia trying to do nothing but appear as town to people (such as purposely saying the things Elvis Knits just pointed out)
3)Still has a mafia vibe despite what he's said this day

He's trying to do whatever he can to clear suspicion on himself. The majority of his posts so far have been based on how he is not scum or locked into a dispute with me at times having suspicions on me for the load of attention I'm adding to his cause.

In the incredibly unlikely chance that Shanba flips town, what situation does that put us at? It wouldn't be too bad to be honest considering we're only down one townie at this point. Hell, a lot of games end up being down 3 townies Day 2 from a Day 1 mislynch, mafia kill and another kill source night 1. We're still fine. However, it doesn't even matter because that's not the case, he is going to flip scum, trust me. And if we can nail a scum this early, the advantage this puts us at is huge.
Trust me that he will flip scum, I'm surprised you guys don't see these scumtells the same way I do. The only reason for this paragraph was to show you that it's still statistically a good choice to lynch Shanba, considering the pros outweigh the cons.
Trust me, I already said I would put my reputation and life at stake.

[elvis_knits]

Maybe Shanba is some devil of deception but I don't normally see scum accuse town of buddying to them.

I mean, when I'm scum I just thank God that I got a townie to agree with me and I let them do it all day long. I certainly don't discourage that behavior.

[ChiboSempai]

I have no freicken idea why Shanba is trying to buddy me -_-

I don't cosign that!

[elvis_knits]

lol, but I was actually talking about Shanba saying I'm buddying to him. I don't know why he would do that if he's scum.

[Pomegranate]

lol, but I was actually talking about Shanba saying I'm buddying to him. I don't know why he would do that if he's scum.

I could see slight motivations.

[elvis_knits]

Scum list, plux.

[Pomegranate]

Scum list, plux.

Huh? (I dunno what plux is.)

[Nachomamma8]

I said 5 posts because I wanted to see how he would respond. If he spammed 5 posts, then I'd know he was in a rush to get the votes off me. If he made 5 content-filled posts, I'd view him as more pro-town. If he make 5 semi-spammy posts, I'd count that as a point against him. In giving him more freedom in how to respond, I gain more information.

Why did I leave SoG's second vote out of my analysis... Because I didn't notice it, maybe? I am human, y'know.

SoG was mainly focusing on you, you were mainly focusing on him. Congratulations, we're back to square one. Oh, and you mentioned other people every now and then, but nothing even kind of significant.

In response to the bit about Josh, you still wanted more content from Josh when you unvoted. Which you haven't explained yet why you did that.
You missed the second vote? In Post 256, I give two links to the posts where SoG voted me. In Post 257, you state that SoG's

first

vote was possibly a pressure vote. Explanation?
Of course I mentioned SoG the most in my posts. He was my top suspect? However, I did point most (If not everything) out that struck me as scummy from other players.

Can't say why that post activated my gut. It just did

I asked for more posts because

content cannot be measured

. Asking for more contents is subjective "Hey, I DID have more content this time", while asking for a set number of posts is objective "Nope, that was 4 posts, not five." I moved the vote because he gave me what I asked for, I told him I still wanted more content so he knew I had my eye on him. Is that a good enough explanation for you?

And where was my analysis again? I'm not a player that worries on every single thing everyone else says; when I search for a reason to vote to lynch someone, I find a good reason. Any person can look scummy if you try hard enough to make him to, and being hung up on one or two words in a person's post is the perfect way to. And you commenting other player's scumminess is NOTHING if you don't follow up with it.

Then why not bring it up later, when you've found the reason of your gut feeling? You're basically screaming at the scum "HEY! Watch out, I might be getting a bit suspicious of you..." or "By the way, I have my suspicions on so-and-so but can't explain them... Mind doing the hard work for me?". Bringing up gut feelings is a useless move as town unless you have something behind them.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote

as promised. But I still want more content.

@Snow Bunny:

1) To me, vote patterns (how much you vote) are null-tells. You can vote for one person because you find them the scummiest, or you can vote for multiple because you believe in pressure voting.

2) Did you read my bit on SoG's hypocrisy? If so, what do you think about it?

3) Not necessarily stretching. Pointing FoSes without votes down suggests a fear to have to explain a vote.

4) Self-preservation isn't scummy either. If you are a townie and are trying to avoid being lynched, defending yourself and starting a bandwagon against someone else is preventing a mislynch, which is pro-town.

You voted Josh for more content, but here you unote him, eventhough you want more content? Yep, needs some explanations.

And why did you respond before SoG did?

But did I ask for posts or content? Hmm...

You asked for posts

Exactly... >.>

I asked for posts, he gave me posts. So I kept my word...

[Battousai]

Vote Count

Shanba (3) – ChiboSempai, SocioPath, Kirbyoshi
ChiboSempai (1) – Shanba
Kirbyoshi (1) – Budja
Pomegranate (1) - elvis_knits

Not Voting (4): Pomegranate, GreenDude, Nachomamma8, ZazieR


It takes 6 to lynch!