Mini 855: Colorless Rainbow Town (Halted for list mod error)

[MonkeyMan576]

I think it's natural to want to seem pro-town when someone is attacking you.

Again, I don't believe you were being attacked on that point. In the above example, Dizzle was just asking you why you Voted ZEE. Aside from that, wanting to seem proTown and blatantly calling your own play proTown are 2 very different things.

As to you 'attacking' Raivann, you clearly said that you wanted your Vote on Raivann to be 'on record'. It's never really sat well with me, but it got dropped for want of jucier conversation after a few posts. Your p200 reads exactly like the 'bringing out lurkers is proTown' comment. It doesn't help the fact that you end p200 by saying you'd be ok taking your Vote off if the Town didn't want it there.

It feels like you're trying to appease us and tell us why you're proTown instead of showing us. Oh, and you did say...

I already FOS'd him(for avoiding questions, and for calling someone pro-town after only 2 posts, if anything the lack of posting is

lurking

, and anti-town)

{emphasis mine} This wasn't

that

long ago, so I'd be careful saying that he wasn't exactly lurking when it was clearly a reason for you to start in on him.

It was one of the reasons, then he started posting again, so he wasn't lurking anymore. But I very clearly had reasons for voting Raivann besides lurking.

I can see your suspicions, and there is some validity to them, but I am just frustrated at every vote I make being questioned, where others are getting free passes on their lurkiness. I think people are wanting to see things as scummy that really aren't.

[cruelty]

lol @ my post, that didn't copy + paste right at all.


Answer THIS:

But explain that. How does waiting for Zeenon make my argument against you premature and foolish?

You're trying to attack me because I was questioning you. OMGUS.


You're also only selectively responding to questions/posts directed at you. I don't like it at all, it's not pro-town, it's not scumhunting, you're just frantically trying to survive and it's not helping anyone.

[d3x]

I didn't even realize I had been ninja'd there!

cruelty- Where did your quote {"the quality of most of the players..." } come from? I just combed over your Iso and didn't find it.

-------------

@MM- I take note that you didn't respond to my entire post. In fact, you spent more time on my afterthought than the main thrust. As this can be written off to a mere difference of opinions, I'll let it slide. As this isn't the first time you've done it with me {see p194 for full details}, I'm still bringing it up.

Your point on lurkers is a valid one, however scummy behaviour trumps lurkers in my book every day. I have not come after you for "every Vote", so please do me the courtesy of not lumping me in with a generic 'they/them'. It also comes across as a tad bit AtE-ey. Just sayin'.

You're even saying some of my suspicions are valid, so I'm not seeing how you can say that I'm seeing scummy things that really aren't scummy. If that's not what you're saying, I retract that last sentence.

On to the lurkers, who specifically do you think needs more attention? How would you suggest we get lurking players to not get 'free passes'? Are you suggesting a policy lynch of LynchAllLurkers?

[cruelty]

Also, OMGUS = counter attack based solely on the fact that someone attacked you. Which is what you're trying to do here:

I'd say withholding your vote is scummier than anything you've attacked me on. Seems that you don't want to take sides so you can leap on whatever the prevailing wagon is.

here:

Then it stands to reason your argument against me is premature and foolish.

here:

It just looks like you're trying to play both sides without having to take a stance, so that whichever side benefits you more later on you can take advantage of, rather than having an actual argument.

You've basically said the same thing twice and thrown in a ridiculous retort for colour. You're not advancing your game at all, you're not bringing up any valid points... this is you trying to make me look like the bad guy for questioning you.

[cruelty]

cruelty- Where did your quote {"the quality of most of the players..." } come from? I just combed over your Iso and didn't find it.

It was a copy+paste error. The correct quote is in the post above yours.

[d3x]

Ninja x2.

That makes a lot more sense.

[MonkeyMan576]

I didn't even realize I had been ninja'd there!

cruelty- Where did your quote {"the quality of most of the players..." } come from? I just combed over your Iso and didn't find it.

-------------

@MM- I take note that you didn't respond to my entire post. In fact, you spent more time on my afterthought than the main thrust. As this can be written off to a mere difference of opinions, I'll let it slide. As this isn't the first time you've done it with me {see p194 for full details}, I'm still bringing it up.

Your point on lurkers is a valid one, however scummy behaviour trumps lurkers in my book every day. I have not come after you for "every Vote", so please do me the courtesy of not lumping me in with a generic 'they/them'. It also comes across as a tad bit AtE-ey. Just sayin'.

You're even saying some of my suspicions are valid, so I'm not seeing how you can say that I'm seeing scummy things that really aren't scummy. If that's not what you're saying, I retract that last sentence.

On to the lurkers, who specifically do you think needs more attention? How would you suggest we get lurking players to not get 'free passes'? Are you suggesting a policy lynch of LynchAllLurkers?

My point is that if I was trying too hard to seem town, I would be suspicious of the same thing, but that's not what's happening here. I think what's happening is you're trying to isolate things that sound scummy and not looking at the overall picture.

I'm not necessarily in favor of LAL, if there is someone that is a better lynch target, but in the abscence of a good lynch target, it's certainly a valid strategy.

[MonkeyMan576]

Also, OMGUS = counter attack based solely on the fact that someone attacked you. Which is what you're trying to do here:

I'd say withholding your vote is scummier than anything you've attacked me on. Seems that you don't want to take sides so you can leap on whatever the prevailing wagon is.

here:

Then it stands to reason your argument against me is premature and foolish.

here:

It just looks like you're trying to play both sides without having to take a stance, so that whichever side benefits you more later on you can take advantage of, rather than having an actual argument.

You've basically said the same thing twice and thrown in a ridiculous retort for colour. You're not advancing your game at all, you're not bringing up any valid points... this is you trying to make me look like the bad guy for questioning you.

I've advanced the game plenty. I was a part of the attack on Raivann that eventually led to him saying "I'm not having fun" in frustration and thus getting modkilled. I've called for Zeenan to speak up. I'm not sure what you think you're doing that I'm not.

[cruelty]

So... you were a part of the Raivann bandwagon, and you were also amongst the numerous people who commented on Zeenon being inactive. Kudos.


You still haven't answered my question in 351.

[MonkeyMan576]

So... you were a part of the Raivann bandwagon, and you were also amongst the numerous people who commented on Zeenon being inactive. Kudos.


You still haven't answered my question in 351.

I already said I wasn't OMGUSing you, and you were taking a very liberal approach at the definition. I'm not dodging anything, but it is possible I'm not aware of the question.

[d3x]

if I was trying too hard to seem town, I would be suspicious of the same thing

I am suggesting that you are doing exactly that, trying too hard to seem Town; so much so that you are physically pointing out what

should

gain you Town points.

what's happening is you're trying to isolate things that sound scummy and not looking at the overall picture

Well, they say that the Devil's in the details. Ok, I'll play it your way. What is the overall picture that I should be looking at?

in the abscence of a good lynch target

Are you suggesting that we don't have a "good lynch candidate"?

it's certainly a valid strategy

Here's what concerns me. In my first game {Newbie 782} we did exactly that. The Town decided to lynch a lurker instead and it helped my partner and I to secure a perfect Scum victory. It was glorious.

Gotta cut this short. I'll be back...

[cruelty]

I'm not dodging anything, but it is possible I'm not aware of the question.

...

vote: MonkeyMan576

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not dodging anything, but it is possible I'm not aware of the question.

...

vote: MonkeyMan576

Okay, now you're full of it. You're clearly more interested in pointing fingers and not being an object of interest than actually having a discussion.

[cruelty]

Oh, ok.

You're not discussing anything. If I ask a question, you ignore it (although oddly you address the fact that I'm asking about you not responding to my question), if I hint that you're scum you call me scummy for holding my vote.


Now we find out that if I vote for you, I'm now "pointing fingers". Additionally, I'm probably the most active right now, I don't think I'm exactly hiding in the shadows here, and I think that my posts are pretty clear. So I don't think your accusation of me attempting to "not [be] an object of interest" is a viable one.

[MonkeyMan576]

Oh, ok.

You're not discussing anything. If I ask a question, you ignore it (although oddly you address the fact that I'm asking about you not responding to my question), if I hint that you're scum you call me scummy for holding my vote.


Now we find out that if I vote for you, I'm now "pointing fingers". Additionally, I'm probably the most active right now, I don't think I'm exactly hiding in the shadows here, and I think that my posts are pretty clear. So I don't think your accusation of me attempting to "not [be] an object of interest" is a viable one.

I never said you were lurking, I said you chose to mindlessly vote for me rather than address my responce, which was that you may have asked a question and I didn't notice it.

[cruelty]

I never said you were lurking, I said you chose to mindlessly vote for me rather than address my responce, which was that you may have asked a question and I didn't notice it.

a) I didn't say I was lurking. I said I'm not trying to divert attention away from myself:

I don't think your accusation of me attempting to "not [be] an object of interest" is a viable one.

b) You still haven't answered my question, I don't really understand why.


c) Mindlessly vote for you? C'mon.

[ZEEnon]

Sorry I got completely distracted when I got home and I ended up watching T.V. I promise I will post tomorrow.
I don't understand why the deadline didn't change due to the modkill, but whatever.

[Skruffs]

Okay that modkill and role flip should be HUGE for everyone
Instead everyone is like, "oh, hmm" but not really going back.
We need to go back and analyze everything Raivann did, because I'm pretty sure he was not intentionally trying to get himself modkilled. Look at his last post - what does that tell you?
Look at how he acted towards Scien/Zee when I took what he said and ran with it - what does that tell us about his interaction between those two?
Look at the interaction between Scien and Me/Raivann - He brought up a few times, I think, asking me what I thoguht about Raivann. I never gave a good response about Raivann. Isn't that suspicious?

Let's start being suspicious of each other, without being extremely zealous.
In the presence of a vacuum, leadership wise, the scum are the ones who have the most to gain.

[Skruffs]

Sorry for hte absence, work kills me sometimes.

[d3x]

I know that mass prods are going out, but I'm seriously concerned here. Hero has never posted in game. Skruffs hasn't posted in a week. jason hasn't posted since Sunday. Fuzzy and Dizzle haven't posted since Monday. Now, this is less than 72 hours, so I'm not too concerned about Dizzle, but Fuzzy hasn't really participated as much in this game. That does concern me.

Thoughts, guys?

[d3x]

Oh. Skruffs is a Ninja.

[d3x]

So I just read over that last interaction we had MM, and I noticed that you are continuing to selectively answer small points in my posts. Why? This time, I'm not feeling as forgiving.

[Dizzle]

As of right now, I'm sticking with my Monkey vote. Since I've last checked in, he's incorrectly attempted to claim that cruelty suggested that he should ignore lurkers and...

Voting me for giving a town read on someone? Giving town reads on players is protown

I recognized him as lurking, and bringing out lurkers is pro-town

...both Raivann and Monkey seemed desperate to point out their townlike actions when neither was really being accused of anything. It smacks of nervous, scrambling scum.

Along with Monkey, Raivann listed Zee as probscum and both China and Fuzzy as probtown. Like everyone else, I am waiting for Zee to return and make some meaningful posts. I am also looking forward to Fuzzy making his first meaningful post. By my count, all but 2 of his posts have been less than 1 sentence. Coupled with Raivann's super early town declaration of him, I would like to hear much much more from Fuzzy. Finally, I never really understood why China unvoted Monkey and I hope that he can further explain that the next time he posts.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

MonkeyMan576 4:

Chinaman (285), Dizzle (316), dvx (340), cruelty (361)

Scien 1:

ZEEnon (302)

ZEEnon 3:

Fuzzyman (100), Scien (297), MonkeyMan576 (300)

Not voting: Hero764, Skruffs, Manzcar (who somehow got forgotten about—can anybody tell me whom, if anybody, this person is voting?)

With 11 alive, it's 6 to... *falls asleep*

Yeah. Work was tiring today.

I'm seriously considering that. If he doesn't post before 5:18 PM MDT on the 9th, he's being replaced, and that's the LATEST.

Mod- Not to push you, but he hasn't posted in game a single time. I just checked.

Fine. Replacing him.

[Chinaman]

I'll go ahead and assume that the last part of your post was a question toward me Dizzle. I unvoted after Raivann was Modkilled. First of all, it kinda set a new tone for the game and had more info. Secondly, I was drawing a connection with MM and Raivann and that needed to be re-evaluated after the flip of scum. I was/am just gathering more info. Didn't see a need for my vote to remain where it was after we had a flip. That's pretty big additional info to take in and evaluate. I will say that MM is by no means close to a town read for me, but I personally don't have enough on him to cast my vote on him again yet. You all are making some good points though.

As I stand right now though, I'm re-reading the game with the knowledge that Raivann is scum. Seeing if anyone besides MM stands out to me as possible scum and going from there. Will post my thoughts on the re-read once they are gathered.