/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832

[Goatrevolt]

Mod: Prod FL please

[Battousai]

Are you going to change your vote then, or do you find SpyreX scummiest and rather have a no lynch over LF/TDC?

There's still two days left until deadline, plenty of time for me to move my vote

as needed

.

So then you would be comfortable not voting LF if LF has the amount needed for lynch already?

[SpyreX]

That doesn't surprise me. This game has some apathy in the hunting because well, only a fraction can decide the lynch.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Are you going to change your vote then, or do you find SpyreX scummiest and rather have a no lynch over LF/TDC?

There's still two days left until deadline, plenty of time for me to move my vote

as needed

.

So then you would be comfortable not voting LF if LF has the amount needed for lynch already?

Well with this first vote tiebreaker nonsense and a competing TDC wagon, I think my vote will be needed eventually so I'm not sure a realistic situation where my vote isn't needed exists. I would be comfortable to varying degrees with lynches of SpyreX, LF, and LG whether I'm casting a vote on those wagons or not. I'm pretty ambivilant as to whether or not I'm on their wagon or not as long as one of them gets lynched.

[Lord Gurgi]

Are you going to change your vote then, or do you find SpyreX scummiest and rather have a no lynch over LF/TDC?

There's still two days left until deadline, plenty of time for me to

move

cast my vote as needed.

Hmm, I wonder...

Seriously, I want a guy lynched, I'm still wondering why it emerged after no serious change. I don't know why it would be scum-driven, I'd still like a satisfying explanation about

something

. Lucky for me it looks like my vote might actually

matter

. Good leverage. I like that DDD is thinking similarly.

[Goatrevolt]

Are you going to change your vote then, or do you find SpyreX scummiest and rather have a no lynch over LF/TDC?

There's still two days left until deadline, plenty of time for me to

move

cast my vote as needed.

Hmm, I wonder...

Seriously, I want a guy lynched, I'm still wondering why it emerged after no serious change. I don't know why it would be scum-driven, I'd still like a satisfying explanation about

something

. Lucky for me it looks like my vote might actually

matter

. Good leverage. I like that DDD is thinking similarly.

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

What is this "something" you want explained?

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day Three Vote Count #6

3 – LlamaFluff (Elmo, Goatrevolt, TDC)
2 – TDC (SpyreX, Battousai)
1 – SpyreX (Debonair Danny DiPietro)

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch and

3

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is October 10, 9:59 pm CDT.

Not Voting – 3 – forbiddanlight, LlamaFluff, Lord Gurgi

---

LOCK COUNT

6 – Green (Goatrevolt, Lord Gurgi, forbiddanlight, SpyreX, Debonair Danny DiPietro, LlamaFluff)
0 – Blue
0 – Red
0 – Yellow

Not Locking – 3 – Battousai, Elmo, TDC

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lock a floor.

At nightfall, the floor to be locked is: GREEN.

forbiddanlight has been prodded.

[forbiddanlight]

Has any progress on stuff occured at all? I'll read from where I last posted...

[forbiddanlight]

Eh, yanno what? My mind can't really process this.

How bout this.

LG, Batt, and Llama are scum.

I have no idea why, but this will now be my assumption from now on

as such,

Vote Llamafluff

[SpyreX]

You have no idea how hard it is to not hammer right here.

Seriously.

[LlamaFluff]

Im just a townie, not on green either.

I dont see a way out of being the lynch so...

dont just quicklynch TDC or anything like that tomorrow. Im not completely sold on him being scum which is the main reason I havent been going into a strong push for him. If he is town, doing that would basically seal the game for scum, which when calculating my confidence, is not a risk I am willing to take.

I do hold to that one of TDC and LG are almost certaintly scum, the same applies to Spy and GR. Chances are that Elmo and Batt are both town, FL is town as well. DDD I can see being scum here, and if a counterwagon at the last second shows up, I would almost prefer that one just for the information it would yeild, as there would of been opportunities for a TDC and DDD wagon, which is a low chance of being two town.

So tomorrow, please no quicklynching of TDC. Push yes, quicklynch... I think that could have disasterous ending. Make LG explain why he backed off me a whole lot better then he actually has. That is another big reason I have shyed from a TDC lynch, as that happening really makes no sense to me and its something to first figure out.

If I had to make a complete guess (which it is) we are looking at DDD-LG-GR. Now watch them all be town to complete my epic fail.

Vote DDD

I will put stuff up later.

[SpyreX]

If TDC wasn't here I'd be hammering.

My impatience also makes me want to hammer.

[forbiddanlight]

If I had to make a complete guess (which it is) we are looking at DDD-LG-GR. Now watch them all be town to complete my epic fail.

Well, I agree with LG at least ^-^

let's see that flip when the time comes.

[Elmo]

SpyreX, why do you want to hammer?

Llama, can you give any reasoning behind any of the reads? Like, one of LG and TDC being scum. I just want to hear what you're thinking, really.

GoatRevolt could easily be scum here and tbh the people who seem to believe otherwise scare me. I figured I'd say that since no-one is talking much about him. (Honestly, I'm reconsidering my conspiracy theory from Day 1 with Goat + FLight as scum while telling myself it makes no sense.)

This is irritating because I have like one single tiny towntell on most people and I'm chasing my tail trying to decide which to follow. I should really have checked in earlier and decided what to do, I think it's fairly inevitable that fluffy gets lynched at this point. Derp.

[SpyreX]

2 parts thinking he could be scum, 2 parts sheer irritation at this game.

I'm still holding to Goat being town although it seems that the apathy monster has devoured him as well.

[Goatrevolt]

GoatRevolt could easily be scum here and tbh the people who seem to believe otherwise scare me. I figured I'd say that since no-one is talking much about him. (Honestly, I'm reconsidering my conspiracy theory from Day 1 with Goat + FLight as scum while telling myself it makes no sense.)

Anyone could be scum. Do you have reason to believe I'm scum? If so, I'm more than willing to clear up any misconceptions now. I feel like my play this game has been pro-town, so I'm not really seeing the reason people are including me in their scum lists, or are so anxious about dispelling other players town reads of me. Elmo, you seem mighty interested in removing the idea that I'm town from everyone's mind, yet you have not brought anything up against me. Nobody has presented any reasons why I might be scum beyond...gut...or POE, giving me essentially nothing to defend myself against, and likewise no room for me to really question those reads to determine validity.

I really don't like you pushing to try to get people away from reading me as town while likewise not actually presenting any points against me yourself. It feels like I'm being set up.

This is irritating because I have like one single tiny towntell on most people and I'm chasing my tail trying to decide which to follow. I should really have checked in earlier and decided what to do, I think it's fairly inevitable that fluffy gets lynched at this point. Derp.

This reads as your disappointment in LlamaFluff being the likely lynch. This is a bit interesting considering your current vote on LlamaFluff...

I'm still holding to Goat being town although it seems that the apathy monster has devoured him as well.

Day 2, I was absent most of the day, due to a combination of factors. I did come back near deadline and try to do something meaningful, but meh. Today I've made an effort to remain as active as I can despite having a bad flu since Monday. I don't think you can look at any of my posts and say I've been apathetic. I've tried today to get people to take stances and arrive at a lynch that isn't a weak deadline deal. Far from apathy.

Meh, I really hope I'm not fucking the game up here, but I think I have to

Unvote

Gurgi doesn't want to join his wagon on Fluff. Elmo doesn't seem "happy" about the Fluff lynch but is again doing a grand total of nothing to stop it and even has his vote on Llama. Llama's not even making an attempt to self-preservation vote. As much as Llama feels like scum, this wagon feels worse...

I don't really think DDD is scum. I'm really second guessing my earlier town call on Elmo. I really don't like his stance on Fluff + push on me. Maybe LG/Elmo/Spyre or Batt?? This is driving me nuts...

[Elmo]

Anyone could be scum. Do you have reason to believe I'm scum?

I meant exactly what I said, that you could easily be scum, not that I have any particular reason to think that you are. People like SpyreX are discounting the possibility, and I don't like that. I'm not attacking you, just

- it's too damn easy for one person to look helpful and slip through

I really don't like you pushing to try to get people away from reading me as town while likewise not actually presenting any points against me yourself. It feels like I'm being set up.

How exactly would I be setting you up?

This reads as your disappointment in LlamaFluff being the likely lynch. This is a bit interesting considering your current vote on LlamaFluff...

I don't see how. It's irritating because my read on him isn't significantly different from my read on most other people, my original vote was bandwagoning, and I meant to check in between then and now but I don't think I did.

I'm also not a fan of how the wagon's going; I actually considering unvoting and voting SpyreX in that post, but like I said, it looked/looks fairly inevitable, though, so meh.

I'm really second guessing my earlier town call on Elmo.

I told you so

[Elmo]

Yay for posting without previewing. I'm not attacking you, I'm just wary of the fact that people who are active, make sense and post a fair amount tend to not to be examined in any great detail - it's too easy for one person to look helpful and slip through without anyone seriously thinking about whether they're scum. And you've done basically nothing that I think you wouldn't do as scum, probably nothing that I think anyone competent wouldn't do as scum.

Elmo, you seem mighty interested in removing the idea that I'm town from everyone's mind

Why am I "mighty interested"? I think I said pretty much one sentence in one post, thus far.

[Battousai]

It's not inevitable. You can always switch to TDC and lynch scum. All you have to do is place your vote on him to get him to 3. Hell, you and goat could just switch to SpyreX and basically backdoor him at the last second. The fact that you claim the lynch is inevitable, when it clearly isn't, leads me to believe that you are trying to distance yourself from the lynch as much as possible, which also leads me to believe now that LF is town.

[Lord Gurgi]

What is unclear about why I'm not on the LF wagon? What stopped me from jumping on a wagon like a SpyreX is that this wagon on LF doesn't seem to be motivated by conviction. It seems just like the Nuwen wagon, like people are making a wagon because they think this guy is going to be lynched anyway. At any rate, this isn't my wagon, it's a bad wagon on a guy I suspect. I'm in a position I'll call a reverse-policy-lynch. I won't lynch him when people are getting on the wagon for such terrible reasons or unexplained. I would appreciate a little less hypocrisy, though, because when I explicitly asked why the LF wagon was only emerging now, the only answer I got was from LF! Now you ask me what I want explained.

[egorub]I notice that LF is voting for the other person I have primarily suspected in the long term out of self-interest.[/egorub] At the same time, Goat is dropping off the wagon and saying it's not a self-preservation vote. Please explain, Goat, how a vote on a non-candidate isn't self-preservation. Please explain why you got on the wagon in the first place, because I can't think of any aspects of your complaint that have changed since you got on.

I think Goat just killed the wagon, too. Now that I think about it,

Vote: DDD

. Don't grow this wagon quickly. If the people who join this wagon are who I predict they will be, I'll have a threesome all nicely sorted.

Elmo, have you got any convincing reasons to think LF is town? Your post where you say that you think the lynch is inevitable seems phrased with that knowledge.

Batt, I am having trouble making sense of that post. At the beginning it seems that you think he's town, and by the end you seem to think he's scum distancing from a townie wagon. Which is it.

Where's TDC?

[Goatrevolt]

Anyone could be scum. Do you have reason to believe I'm scum?

I meant exactly what I said, that you could easily be scum, not that I have any particular reason to think that you are. People like SpyreX are discounting the possibility, and I don't like that. I'm not attacking you, just

- it's too damn easy for one person to look helpful and slip through

Ok, sure...

I really don't like you pushing to try to get people away from reading me as town while likewise not actually presenting any points against me yourself. It feels like I'm being set up.

How exactly would I be setting you up?

My feeling of being setup is that by trying to remove the notion that I am town you are sowing seeds of suspicion on me. Then some sort of a catalyst, like say I lead a mislynch on Llama, and those seeds bloom tomorrow and I get mislynched afterward. Both your play and Gurgi's play gave me this feeling, in how you reacted to the Fluff wagon.

I don't see how. It's irritating because my read on him isn't significantly different from my read on most other people, my original vote was bandwagoning, and I meant to check in between then and now but I don't think I did.

You don't see how that post reads as you expressing disappointment with the LlamaFluff lynch?

I'm also not a fan of how the wagon's going; I actually considering unvoting and voting SpyreX in that post, but like I said, it looked/looks fairly inevitable, though, so meh.

No, this is not an excuse. If you unvote, TDC and Fluff will be tied in votes. If you voted SpyreX he would also be tied in votes. I refuse to accept this as valid.

Elmo, you seem mighty interested in removing the idea that I'm town from everyone's mind

Why am I "mighty interested"? I think I said pretty much one sentence in one post, thus far.

You pushed SpyreX on it earlier today, and then brought it up again today. Looking at how many relevant posts you've made today, it's been a fairly prevalent topic for you.

[Goatrevolt]

[egorub]I notice that LF is voting for the other person I have primarily suspected in the long term out of self-interest.[/egorub] At the same time, Goat is dropping off the wagon and saying it's not a self-preservation vote. Please explain, Goat, how a vote on a non-candidate isn't self-preservation. Please explain why you got on the wagon in the first place, because I can't think of any aspects of your complaint that have changed since you got on.

Do I really need to explain why a vote on a non-candidate isn't self-preservation? Self-preservation means you are acting in a way strictly for the purpose of surviving. Voting someone who is unlikely to be lynched, making it more likely that you get lynched yourself is the opposite of self-preservation. What about this doesn't make sense?

This is why I voted Fluff:

This is nothing like the town play I remember from Llama at all. I've never seen him content to sit back and do relatively nothing while lynch after lynch goes through.

Nothing has changed between my vote on him and the subsequent unvote in terms of Llama's play itself. What has changed is my perception of other players interactions with him and my feel that he is probably not scum based on the way the wagon built up. Finding scum is not a strict "he did, he did not do" equation. I always factor in the rest of the game and how they interact as well.

Now that I think about it,

Vote: DDD

. Don't grow this wagon quickly. If the people who join this wagon are who I predict they will be, I'll have a threesome all nicely sorted.

I don't like this kind of shenanigans close to deadline. Isn't expressing that you will know who is scum based on who joins the wagon counterproductive to determining who those scum are? Is DDD one of those scum, or are you voting him as bait? I'm not content to allow this vote to stand in this fashion at this point in the game.

[Lord Gurgi]

Voting a non-candidate IS self-preservation. That you don't understand it is why he did it. Why would he explicitly vote out of self-preservation when TDC was bit for it? So then he votes for a non-candidate for either townie points or a new wagon. Win-Win.

So the reason you got off the wagon is because of other people's reasoning for getting on it... The same reason I never got on it. It seems like I did what you did, but more clever.

Wait you are asking me to explain an explanation for a vote that may or may not already be invalidated then asking questions that would almost certainly invalidate it, following telling me it's silly. Why? Don't you think there's a conflict?

Thanks for the quick response.

[Goatrevolt]

Voting a non-candidate IS self-preservation. That you don't understand it is why he did it. Why would he explicitly vote out of self-preservation when TDC was bit for it? So then he votes for a non-candidate for either townie points or a new wagon. Win-Win.

Eh, this is what I assumed you meant. Sure, it's possible this is the reason he did it. I still think scum in that situation (gun put to their head) are going to look for the more concrete solution, and not try the tricky backdoor way out of their lynch. So yes, this is possible, but I argue less likely.

So the reason you got off the wagon is because of other people's reasoning for getting on it... The same reason I never got on it. It seems like I did what you did, but more clever.

No, actually this is not true. It wasn't other player's reasoning for getting on it, but rather you and Elmo's stance in regards to it. You pushing the wagon for a long time, but then not wanting to commit to it, and Elmo expressing both disappointment with the wagon but doing nothing to change the status quo and leaving his vote on gives the impression that Fluff is a mislynch.

Wait you are asking me to explain an explanation for a vote that may or may not already be invalidated then asking questions that would almost certainly invalidate it, following telling me it's silly. Why? Don't you think there's a conflict?

No. I don't care for trickery 2 days from deadline, especially since it seems like you defeated your own purpose by declaring the exact type of trickery you were going for.

Do you honestly think there is enough time for you to learn anything meaningful from this? Can you at least answer this question: "Is DDD who you want to lynch most and why?"

[Lord Gurgi]

I don't think arguing LF's incompetence is a good arguing point.

Do you think my unwillingness to join the wagon is unreasonable?

If it is a pointless move, why are you trying to undermine it further? How can it be trickery if I announce my purpose from the outset? Do you think I inadvertently announced my purpose? I'm not sure how you can, in good conscience, maintain that I both intended subterfuge and to expose it. The two motives are contrary.

I think that two days is plenty of time for things to happen. Voting DDD may well help me sort out which connected group is scum and which is town. I'm probably not going to give you something better than this if you're unsatisfied. Do you have a better idea for how I should spend the time before deadline? I can't imagine you do, or you'd be off doing it.