Mini 862 ~ Mafia of Order (Game Over!)

[saberwolf]

Goat, I have a weak scum read on Starry. And Saber's push on Sens, with deadline staring right at us, doesn't help him any.

Saber, I don't know who cloud is either.

Sotty, starting new wagons late in a day is usually a bad idea/scum tactic.

there is still four days in this day, plenty of time to get things in order and still do lots of scumhunting.

Also, cloud is probably the figurehead of Final Fantasy, mainly known for FF7.

I realise that starting a new BW isn't too helpful, but I had to let you guys know my thoughts on the issue, and see who agreed with me on certain points. I rather not just jump on the largest BW at first, just because it might be the easiest thing to do. I'll take some more time to observe and deliberate my course of action.

[Cobalt]

four days is plenty for a new bandwagon, but I don't think DDD is the best choice. Juls/Locke is better. That's assuming we don't stick with VP, which I'd prefer.
I'm thinking in light of saberwolf's recent posting ACSN's emotion may have been genuine.
I find it ironic that Sens was accusing saberwolf of not reading the game deeply. Also, it's the wincons, not the rules, that tell us to leave 3rd parties alive. Seriously, Sens, it's like you aren't trying to read my posts and just want me lynched regardless of what I say.
Kmd, I want you to look at VP's slip about 3rd parties and tell me how that could come from a town motivation. He's the lynch today.

[Sotty7]

KMD normally I would agree with you, but with this ruleset we have plenty of time left.

Cobalt, why LL over triple D?

[Cobalt]

Sotty, actually, I just saw LL posted yesterday, so they both have 4 posts, but I feel LL is lurkier. I got a scumhunting feel from DDD's posts, but LL's felt more active lurky.

VP didn't slip. More times than not, a 3rd party lynch isn't a bad thing. There are very few exceptions.

And this is one of them.

Why do people think Saber's posting is protown? Saber is worse than Starry IMO.

at least saber is posting content unlike "you're all stupid and I don't feel like explaining why" ACSN.

[fuzzylightning]

Unvote

Now that there seems to be sensible posting (meaning there is content there) from Saber I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the short term, however he is still using a lot of posts and I am not sure that is so good when that slot has a 50 post limit, so that still gets an

FoS: Saberwolf

.

I would like to point out that my voice of Yune told me that PRs are independent of alignment, so with that said I don't think any of the arguments saying how does sacrifice help scum hold any weight at this point, and I will not be paying much attention to those.

I don't like how Cobalt keeps pushihng the fact that he is confirmed because Micaiah is the protagonist of the series, and how everyone of his posts is an advertisement for the VP lynch. The more he posts, the less I like him because he posts more, using more of the posts that he is supposed to sacrifice, which leads me to believe that when tomorrow happens, he won't have any more posts. So with all that said, I am comfortable with a Cobalt lynch.

Vote: Cobalt

[VP Baltar]

If Cobalt is scum he's freaking stupid.

But not if he's town? Seriously, I don't see how anyone with any kind of experience on MS can think he is making good arguments.

I am not going to wagon DDD before deadline, and also I will be gone that entire Saturday with a friend, so Friday night is the last I will post before deadline.

Do you plan on staying with saberwolf then? We definitely need to work out what our plans are ahead of time. Really we should already be having the intended lynchee claiming in my opinion.

Not much saberwolf has said has been useful or logical...so I'm still good with his lynch at this point. That being said, my only other game with him he played horribly...so I don't know if this is a helpful judge.

just please don't expect me to pull a mastin or AndyTony, as I'm more of the midsize poster

Have you read the rules? There are limits on the size of posts. Please check them out if you haven't already.

I am voting VP for the same reason I found you suspicious, the weak unvote of Cobalt while leaving it open to jump back on the wagon if nothing else takes.

That's a hell of an assumption you are making there in terms of intention. Also, if you think Cobalt has done nothing scummy and/or VI-ish this game then you are not the Sotty I know and love.

I am glad to hear, however, that you'd back a DDD wagon, as I am most certain that he is scum on my wagon. (and glad to hear you are feeling better).

Your posts already make me feel better about that player slot.

What about his posts do you think are pro-townish? Also, were you suspicious of ACSN before?

I'm thinking in light of saberwolf's recent posting ACSN's emotion may have been genuine.

What about his posts do you think is pro-townish? Just that he agrees with you?

VP didn't slip.

You're trying to get off of my lynch list aren't you? Logic will get you everywhere.

I got a scumhunting feel from DDD's posts, but LL's felt more active lurky.

Really? Check their posts. DDD has literally not asked a single question this game. LL has lurked as well, but at least he has asked a few questions here and there. Please explain how DDD is scumhunting.

Unvote,Vote: DDD

Never too late, Kmd. Let's lynch scum today.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, what makes you think I don't think you are scum anymore? Just the fact that I won't try to run up a last minute wagon that will probably result in a no lynch considering we already have three popular wagons?

I don't think I suggested that; just that you stated pretty definitively that you wouldn't be voting for me despite having the utmost confidence that I'm scum.

Why do people think Saber's posting is protown? Saber is worse than Starry IMO.

Agreed.

~~~

VPB's nonsensical confidence is giving me pause, as is my discomfort with saberwolf. Might push saberwolf ahead of VPB, but I need some time to reread and think about it, I'll come to a decision tonight. I also don't like Sotty either, but she's not a viable lynch today.

[Sotty7]

KMD, my experience with the BaM ruleset is that every last available hour/day will be squeezed out here. People tend not to waste time here. Four days left is plenty of time.

That's a hell of an assumption you are making there in terms of intention. Also, if you think Cobalt has done nothing scummy and/or VI-ish this game then you are not the Sotty I know and love.

I am glad to hear, however, that you'd back a DDD wagon, as I am most certain that he is scum on my wagon. (and glad to hear you are feeling better).

This is mafia and assumptions are the name of the game, in that we all read each others posts, some people are lying about their intentions others aren't. We all have to figure out who is who.

Expecting your claim to auto clear you isn't the best method of play, but other than that I'm not getting the Cobalt hate. I don't see how his play aids scum.

What about his posts do you think are pro-townish? Also, were you suspicious of ACSN before?

I should have explained this better. My experience of players that start calling others idiots and other fun names becoming frustrated tend to be town more than not. It doesn't excuse their play but they get wrapped up in the heat of things. So my read on ACSN was angry town, saber's post was coherent which makes me feel better about getting good content from the player slot now.

VP, what do you think of Juls?

VPB's nonsensical confidence is giving me pause, as is my discomfort with saberwolf. Might push saberwolf ahead of VPB, but I need some time to reread and think about it, I'll come to a decision tonight. I also don't like Sotty either, but she's not a viable lynch today.

Gonna give reasons? Cause if you don't I am going to go with the assumption that it is because I said I would be happy to wagon you today.

[Goatrevolt]

But not if he's town? Seriously, I don't see how anyone with any kind of experience on MS can think he is making good arguments.

Some of his argument are bad. Some make sense. The idea that the town win-condition says we only need to kill mafia, thus we should focus on hunting for mafia is 100% correct logic, and the mass of arguments otherwise are plain stupid.

Bad logic =/= scum. If that were true, we might as well just go do logic puzzles to determine which faction wins this game.

Do you plan on staying with saberwolf then? We definitely need to work out what our plans are ahead of time. Really we should already be having the intended lynchee claiming in my opinion.

I agree with this. I'm fine with sticking on Saberwolf, although Saberwolf is appearing a lot more pro-town than ACSN was. I also am in favor of lynching Locke Lamora. I will also be willing to vote DDD as a deadline lynch choice, contrary to what I said before. After looking through his posts, I can definitely see him being scum.

[Vi]

To arms, I say! We are not afraid! We shall fight for the prosperity of our fatherland, as did Ike the patriot!

Vote Count:

VP Baltar (L-3) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro, Locke Lamora, Sotty7, Cobalt

Cobalt (L-4) ~ SensFan, Kmd4390,

saberwolf (a cold starry night),

fuzzylightning
saberwolf (a cold starry night) (L-5) ~

VP Baltar,

fuzzylightning,

Goatrevolt, DTMaster
Sotty7 (L-6) ~ Juls
SensFan (L-6) ~ saberwolf (a cold starry night)
Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-6) ~ VP Baltar

-So I take it saberwolf replaces a cold starry night. I'm glad someone chose to tell me about this.

--With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
--Deadline is Saturday, October 17 2009.

(Only got 3 days left)

Post Count:

saberwolf (a cold starry night) - 13
Cobalt - 32
Debonair Danny DiPietro - 5
DTMaster - 7
fuzzylightning - 7
Goatrevolt - 17
Juls - 7
Kmd4390 - 17
Locke Lamora - 4
SensFan - 21
Sotty7 - 7
VP Baltar - 13

[VP Baltar]

Actually, I was wondering that myself Mod. Doesn't the BaM ruleset dictate no replacements?

[Vi]

Actually, I was wondering that myself Mod. Doesn't the BaM ruleset dictate no replacements?

Good question.
I interpreted the original rule (12) as meaning that there are no

forced

replacements. I did leave the option open for people who wanted to replace out (as sometimes people have to for whatever reason) to find their own replacement, and as there are five people who were /in to replace this makes everyone happy.

I haven't talked with either of the people who actually run the show in BaM about this, so consider this a quirk from me~
Of course, in case you haven't seen it yet I give people who have replaced out of my games (or out of games I have played in) a hard time, so--

[Cobalt]

@Vi: so is saberwolf a player or not?

[Vi]

@Vi: so is saberwolf a player or not?

Take a look at the previous vote count and make your own decision.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VPB's nonsensical confidence is giving me pause, as is my discomfort with saberwolf. Might push saberwolf ahead of VPB, but I need some time to reread and think about it, I'll come to a decision tonight. I also don't like Sotty either, but she's not a viable lynch today.

Gonna give reasons? Cause if you don't I am going to go with the assumption that it is because I said I would be happy to wagon you today.

Seemed like a pretty good reason at the time, meet fire with fire. Also there was a bit of confusion on my part as it was actually your points against Juls that had me interested earlier and in my head I had flipped you two in my head as you being the suspicious one of the pair.

~~~

VPB did have it right that we should already be at the point of having a serious wagon and a claim to evaluate instead of waiting till the last possible moment. Everyone who isn't on one of the big three wagons really should be at this point with only three days to go.

[VP Baltar]

Ok folks, let's get this thing moving. We are picking our lynchee today.

Choices are:

VP
Cobalt
saberwolf
DDD

I know DDD doesn't have many votes, but I think adequate interest has been shown there and I implore anyone to look at his posts and see if it doesn't look like scum coasting.

If you are not voting for one of these people, then it is time to move your vote immediately. Not doing so is a sign that you are scum hoping for a no lynch.

Mod, I don't know if it is due or not, but can you please prod DTMaster, LL and Juls so they know they are loved and wanted. Thanks!

Someone needs to be at L-1 or L-2 by today so a claim can be assessed in time. GOGOGO

---

LL, if you think saber has shown some signs of protownness, then I suggest DDD because I don't see anything protown in his behavoir. I'd still support a saber lynch if need be, but DDD is my official preference.

[saberwolf]

ok, well in that case:

unvote; vote: DDD

1. VP seems kinda scummy with his eagerness and wanting to rush everyone, but when he's willing to place himself in the lynch spotlight, it gives me a town feel

2. Cobalt has sold me with his claim

3. I know I am town

4. Sensfan is apparantly not on the list for today

5. That leaves DDD

[VP Baltar]

Kmd, what is the difference if I get run up to L-1 and have to claim now or if DDD does?

You, Goat, Sotty and myself have all said they would (or are) vote for him. That is already equal to the support for my wagon currently. I don't see why you think there is no support for it. Vote him now and give this wagon some wheels.

If people read him in iso and honestly don't support his lynch at all, then I'm willing to switch later today or tomorrow to saber. I think DDD really is the best lynch today and you simply saying "no" even though you find him scummy makes no sense whatsoever. Don't be stubborn.

[VP Baltar]

way to go saber, be a hero!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If people read him in iso and honestly don't support his lynch at all, then I'm willing to switch later today or tomorrow to saber.

What are your reasons for voting for me again other than the dreadedly nonsensical "he didn't ask questions" and maybe a shallow OMGUS?

[VP Baltar]

It's less likely with deadline coming up that DDD will be lynched. If you can prove me wrong, I won't complain, but I seriously doubt we will get enough votes on DDD. Adding a 4th wagon hurts our chances at getting a lynch.

You are not really giving me a valid reason. I have already pointed out that there is ample support for the DDD wagon and saber's vote has only further strengthened that. Vote him now and if it goes nowhere you still have time to switch tomorrow. If you'd stop fighting me on it for illogical reasons, I think it has a very good chance of coming off. So vote in your next post and stop making me bother you about it. You don't even have to waste a post with reasoning. Just vote.

As I think Sotty said, BaM games go down to deadline, so don't act like no one is going to be here. If no lynch happens then you can lynch me tomorrow without hesitation.

What are your reasons for voting for me again other than the dreadedly nonsensical "he didn't ask questions" and maybe a shallow OMGUS?

First, there is no OMGUS about it. Second, nice attempt to strawman. You have not been scumhunting at all this game, which I know you are perfectly capable of. You got on my wagon in your first post for reasons that made little sense ("skepticism with VPB's revote") and have coasted ever since that point. You make some mild commentary jabs early on without making any real effort to fish out the scum, and even those fall off as the game progresses.

Other than that, a majority of your contribution to the game has been "I'm not lynching Cobalt" and "the wagon on me is stupid".

And let's not forget your OMGUS of Sotty which you had to quickly retract when you realized you had no logical reason to call her scum.

Point me to actual scumhunting you have done if I'm not making a valid case against you.

---

Forgot something earlier:

VP, what do you think of Juls?

I don't have a strong read one way or another at this point. I would say, however, that I don't agree with her "meta" of you from ViPod being a valid point.

[Sotty7]

Unvote, vote: DDD

[Cobalt]

I'd rather not jump off the VP wagon for DDD. Juls maybe, but it looks like that won't happen.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What are your reasons for voting for me again other than the dreadedly nonsensical "he didn't ask questions" and maybe a shallow OMGUS?

First, there is no OMGUS about it. Second, nice attempt to strawman.

I don't suck and it was a nice attempt? You're just full of compliments today VPB.

You have not been scumhunting at all this game, which I know you are perfectly capable of.

Oh certainly I'm capable, I've just found my attempts to do so conventionally in the past are completely ineffectual so I've pretty much ditched that.

You got on my wagon in your first post for reasons that made little sense ("skepticism with VPB's revote") and have coasted ever since that point. You make some mild commentary jabs early on without making any real effort to fish out the scum, and even those fall off as the game progresses.

Dude, you said you should've stuck with your gut in regards to voting Cobalt when your initial vote on Cobalt was the first post in the game. You don't see how that comment doesn't make any sense.

Point me to actual scumhunting you have done if I'm not making a valid case against you.

I offer commentary, I answer questions, I vote. Those things constitute scumhunting to me. Elaborate lines of questiong and digging out other people's logical fallacies don't work for me.

~~~

I did fail to do my usual trend analysis, but we just hit the point where I could yesterday. Sotty, Fuzzylightning, Sens, Juls, and ACSN/Saber all register as highly probable as scum. Logic would suggest that only one of Sotty and Juls is scum though the way they've gone after each other early. You also register as highly probable town along with Cobalt and DTMaster. The numbers don't lie, or at least I hope they don't.

Unvote; Vote: Saberwolf

[Goatrevolt]

DDD: I'm very curious why VP went from Scum not playing like the Obv-town you know to highly probable town. What caused this swap?