Newbie 855 (Game over)

[CthulhuDreams]

Dude, summer is coming up. Daylight savings just started. What do you mean you live in the northern hemisphere?

[YankCane151]

Vote:Alduskkel

You vote Y for giving advice, then claim it wasn't random? Is giving advice a scum tell?

[Alduskkel]

Way to misrepresent. Go reread the post where I gave my reason.

[Y]

I'm also keen to find out why Y is misrepresenting his actions to make Alduskkel look worse though - he put him at L-2 NOT L-1, and that is a pretty significant difference even if the 2 and the 1 is right next to each other.

I never claimed to be at L-1. I asked Alduskkel why he didn't unvote when he thought (Mistakenly) that I am at L-1.
The point isn't how many votes I really had, but how did Alduskkel react when he thought I'm about to be lynched.

[Socrates]

Y, real quick, how many people do you think are required to lynch? (Hint: it rhymes with bive.)

[Alduskkel]

Y, give me a post where I said that I thought you were at L-1. Hint: You can't give me one. The confusion was over whether you were at L-2 or L-3.

[Y]

Sorry, thought we need four to lynch. My bad.

[CthulhuDreams]

Yeah - hence questioning your motives in saying that you thought Alduskkel thought that he was putting you at L-1.

Which was an oversight that definitely contributed to the

Aura of Confusion

around the voting here.

[Socrates]

Well, this is going nowhere fast.

For discussion purposes:

- Aldus, I know you said your vote was serious, but just how serious is it? Do you believe Y committed a real scumtell?

- What does everyone else feel about this?

To answer my own question I feel that being "helpful" is only a bad thing if it is used as a substitute to actual scumhunting, so I think it is a little too early to pursue such an angle. If Y keeps that up once the game starts in earnest, then we might have something.

- Cthulu, do you really think its possible that Y was lying about knowing whether a third vote would put him a L-1? I mean, its not like its something a scum can reasonably expect to trick the town with.

- Yankcane's vote on Aldus looks pretty bad as it is, I want him to get in here and defend his reasoning. His point is pretty off from what Aldus actually said, but he might have just failed to understand him.

So, for now,

UNVOTE, VOTE: YankCane151

because its better than a random vote.

Was it a misunderstanding or a deliberate misrep? inquiring minds want to know.

[YankCane151]

By the way, my vote isn't random. I think Y is trying to get all the benefit of looking helpful without actually being helpful.

What, is there a sarcastic tone to this post? I do not get this at all, and Socrates, are you helping a scumbuddy there?

[VertFire]

It sounds like Alduskkel is trying to take down Y early. But I myself haven't seen anything suspicious yet.

[Alduskkel]

I don't get how YankCane can quote the correct post and still not get it.

@Socrates: Yes, what Y did was scummy.

VertFire: I don't expect Y to get lynched over what I'm saying. I'm trying to increase discussion, and to do that there needs to be something to talk about, which in this case is Y.

[Y]

Actually, I believe Aldus is trying to create conversation, which is better than random voting.

@ Adus: I did repeat what you said, but I added content which I thought is important. It didn't just look like I'm helping, I really did.

@ Socrates: When a player helps people, they tend to trust him. Scum uses that to earn the trust of the town. The problem is that scum don't want to help the town, so they just make it look like they're helping. That's what Adus is saying.

[Alduskkel]

Pretty weird that you called me Aldus the first time then called me Adus a bunch of times after that.[/offtopic]

Y: Why did you repeat what I said?

[Socrates]

@ Socrates: When a player helps people, they tend to trust him. Scum uses that to earn the trust of the town. The problem is that scum don't want to help the town, so they just make it look like they're helping. That's what Adus is saying.

I understand the argument, (its YankCane that doesn't) I was asking people whether they consider it significant enough to actually pursue at this time, especially since the incident he cites happened in the pregame. Yes, scum want to appear helpful and trustworthy to the town, but a townie IC wants to

actually

be helpful, and so I don't think scum IC are significantly more likely to throw around lots of advice than a town IC.

If the advice is consistantly pointless filler over a long time period or the IC has been avoiding actual scumhunting and analysis instead just commenting on theory and whatnot, then that is awfully scummy and the player should be voted, but it is far too early to say that you are doing that and as such I won't be voting you yet.

If your and Aldus's positions were switched, would you vote him?

@YankCane: Was Y's explanation enough for you to understand why Aldus voted him?

[foilist13]

Y's mistake was not a scum tell. There is no advantage for scum to mislead the town into thinking it requires fewer votes to lynch, ergo a scum player would not have done it intentionally. A town player is equally likely to make that mistake as a scum player, and it does not advance the game either way. You are voting from the standpoint that mistakes are scum tells, but they are not.

[Alduskkel]

foil, no one's voting for Y because of that.

[CthulhuDreams]

My current thinking: Y vs Alduskkel has been a pretty fast and furious start to the game, and there have been decently sized mistake on both sides (wrong number of votes vs wrong lynch threshhold) by the players on both sides - especially considering that they are also the more experienced players.

FOS: Random accusations by YankCane that make no sense at all.

@Foilist13: What was the reasoning behind the 'random' vote on Alduskkel after the (reasonably serious) accusations on both Alduskkel & Y for making scumtells? Seems like an attempt to provoke a bandwagon imho, but I'm keen to hear your reasoning behind it before I move my vote.

To me its especially bad if you thought Y and Alduskell where making mistakes, not scumtells because it injects more confusion into the debate.

@Ventfire:

It sounds like Alduskkel is trying to take down Y early. But I myself haven't seen anything suspicious yet.

Trying to get someone take down fast on day 1 is a really suspicious move - so do you think Alduskkel is being suspicious or not?

I'd like purple princess to delurk.

[CthulhuDreams]

EBWOP: I just noticed that I hadn't answered Socrates question - No, I don't really think the mistakes are a scumtell, but I do think it is possible that the mistakes were made in the execution and defence against scummy moves. So as Y is in no danger of being lynched, I'm not moving my vote until we get something out of foilist, ventire and purple princess.

[VertFire]

Well to me it looked like he wanted us to all follow his lead and vote for him, but it seems everyone is starting to calm down and think with their heads now.

[Y]

I wouldn't vote in this case. The ICs are supposed to answer those questions.

Just to be noted: I'm not accusing Aldus with anything and I actually do understand his point.
That said, in this case that point doesn't apply, since I did add extra content.

About the vote mistakes: There's nothing there. Aldus counted bolded votes without checking the voters' names, so he missed the fact that one is a re-vote.
I just didn't do the math. Once I realized it, I corrected myself.

It seems like there's a lot of confusion around here. It might be a good idea for everybody to re-read the thread. It isn't too long.

[Zhero]

I don't see what Y did to be a scumtell... even if he hadn't extrapolated with more information, posting to look helpful without actually saying anything isn't much of a tell in the pregame since there's nothing to coast through yet.

I think voting someone to what you think is L-2 this early on is suspicious, but helps generate conversation and move us past the random votes.

Other than that, I agree with Y that some people seem to be confused as to what's going on.

[CthulhuDreams]

To be honest, I feel most of the confusion was with Y and Alduskkel making mistakes. Everyone else's moves have to be seen in context - which still leaves YankCane and Foilist looking a bit dicey.

[foilist13]

I'm fine with dicey. I'm not going to lie, I didn't read the thread carefully at all on day 3 of a newbie game when we are BARELY out of RVS. If you think I continue to act scummy then we'll see, but for now I don't feel like I'm any more or less pro-town than anyone else.

[purple princess]

Imo I don't see Y's comments to be a scumtell, I believe that it was confusion on both parts, which just kind of snowballed.
I think this has been blown out of all proportion, but I think it has been helpful to come out of RVS with something to talk about, instead of people being queit and waiting for things to happen.