Mini 848 - Second String Muppets Mafia - Game Over.

[Zorblag]

Vote Count 4.1

The numbers by the voters indicate the order in which the vote was cast. If two or more players are tied for the most votes to lynch at the deadline the tiebreaker will be the player who has the earliest active vote.

elvis_knits: 2: Snix (2), MonkeyMan576 (3)

Not Voting: Ectomancer, ekiM, elvis_knits, Kikuchiyo

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Currently elvis_knits would be lynched at deadline. Deadline is 11:00 PM EDT/8:00 PM PDT on Monday, November 2nd 2009.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[elvis_knits]

I would certainly bank on two scum still alive, solely based off the fact that town has five(one alleged) power roles and the only dead scum is vanilla. Not sure if my mind will change on my read through, but I think it would be foolish to assume anything less. due to kill flavor, though, I would assume the actual tally is one scum, one sk. Unless someone took credit for the blowings up?

Without the read through, Monkey looks like the safest lynch. He is certainly the most anti-town.

I think it was charter who blew people up. He was a compulsive vig, IIRC.

I also think there are 2 scum left. In a gave with a compulsive vig it doesn't make sense for there to be less. I don't often see ANY mini game with less that 3 to start.

At this point, I don't favor lynching ecto. That seems like the worst thing we could do, and I don't know why monkey suggests it. Monkey is looking better and better to me since he has not done one good thing for the town. I also find it hard to believe he's this clueless.

[MonkeyMan576]

I would certainly bank on two scum still alive, solely based off the fact that town has five(one alleged) power roles and the only dead scum is vanilla. Not sure if my mind will change on my read through, but I think it would be foolish to assume anything less. due to kill flavor, though, I would assume the actual tally is one scum, one sk. Unless someone took credit for the blowings up?

Without the read through, Monkey looks like the safest lynch. He is certainly the most anti-town.

I think it was charter who blew people up. He was a compulsive vig, IIRC.

I also think there are 2 scum left. In a gave with a compulsive vig it doesn't make sense for there to be less. I don't often see ANY mini game with less that 3 to start.

At this point, I don't favor lynching ecto. That seems like the worst thing we could do, and I don't know why monkey suggests it. Monkey is looking better and better to me since he has not done one good thing for the town. I also find it hard to believe he's this clueless.

Well, you wouldn't if he's your scumbuddy. Wanting to lynch me is fairly self serving and OMGUSy.

[Ectomancer]

At this point, I don't favor lynching ecto. That seems like the worst thing we could do, and I don't know why monkey suggests it.

I can make an educated guess as to why you would say this, but could you spell it out? I don't see how lynching me could be the

worst

thing you could do from any point of view that isn't my own.

[elvis_knits]

The reason is you seem the least like scum to me.

I'm trying to think of the possible scenarios. Let's say snix is scum and you and him cooked up this little gambit. You would obviously support him in trying to lynch me (sort of like how monkey is acting). Or you could go for the buss and try to get him lynched. But you don't want to lynch either of us, which seems like it is not helpful to you if you're scum.

Let's say snix is town and you're scum who sent in a no-kill last night. Which gives a sort of false positive to snix. Well, if you're scum this is your dream scenario, this is what you would have been hoping for, and you definitely support snix and try to lynch me (again, like monkey is doing). But you're not trying to lynch me, so this scenario isn't true.

So whether or not snix is scum, you're not acting like scum would act in any scenario I can think of.

On the other hand, whether snix is scum or not, monkey

is

acting the part of scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

The reason is you seem the least like scum to me.

I'm trying to think of the possible scenarios. Let's say snix is scum and you and him cooked up this little gambit. You would obviously support him in trying to lynch me (sort of like how monkey is acting). Or you could go for the buss and try to get him lynched. But you don't want to lynch either of us, which seems like it is not helpful to you if you're scum.

Let's say snix is town and you're scum who sent in a no-kill last night. Which gives a sort of false positive to snix. Well, if you're scum this is your dream scenario, this is what you would have been hoping for, and you definitely support snix and try to lynch me (again, like monkey is doing). But you're not trying to lynch me, so this scenario isn't true.

So whether or not snix is scum, you're not acting like scum would act in any scenario I can think of.

On the other hand, whether snix is scum or not, monkey

is

acting the part of scum.

Only in your world, Elvis. We supposedly should ignore the night action implications against you.

[Ectomancer]

The reason is you seem the least like scum to me.

I'm trying to think of the possible scenarios. Let's say snix is scum and you and him cooked up this little gambit. You would obviously support him in trying to lynch me (sort of like how monkey is acting). Or you could go for the buss and try to get him lynched. But you don't want to lynch either of us, which seems like it is not helpful to you if you're scum.

Let's say snix is town and you're scum who sent in a no-kill last night. Which gives a sort of false positive to snix. Well, if you're scum this is your dream scenario, this is what you would have been hoping for, and you definitely support snix and try to lynch me (again, like monkey is doing). But you're not trying to lynch me, so this scenario isn't true.

So whether or not snix is scum, you're not acting like scum would act in any scenario I can think of.

On the other hand, whether snix is scum or not, monkey

is

acting the part of scum.

Holy crap someone is using reasoning

[elvis_knits]

The reason is you seem the least like scum to me.

I'm trying to think of the possible scenarios. Let's say snix is scum and you and him cooked up this little gambit. You would obviously support him in trying to lynch me (sort of like how monkey is acting). Or you could go for the buss and try to get him lynched. But you don't want to lynch either of us, which seems like it is not helpful to you if you're scum.

Let's say snix is town and you're scum who sent in a no-kill last night. Which gives a sort of false positive to snix. Well, if you're scum this is your dream scenario, this is what you would have been hoping for, and you definitely support snix and try to lynch me (again, like monkey is doing). But you're not trying to lynch me, so this scenario isn't true.

So whether or not snix is scum, you're not acting like scum would act in any scenario I can think of.

On the other hand, whether snix is scum or not, monkey

is

acting the part of scum.

Only in your world, Elvis. We supposedly should ignore the night action implications against you.

Monkey... seriously, are you this clueless or are you scum?

He could be LYING or scum could have no-killed last night. This is not a black and white issue even if you're not me with the benefit of knowing my allignment. You're acting like the result is definitive and it's not.

[MonkeyMan576]

The reason is you seem the least like scum to me.

I'm trying to think of the possible scenarios. Let's say snix is scum and you and him cooked up this little gambit. You would obviously support him in trying to lynch me (sort of like how monkey is acting). Or you could go for the buss and try to get him lynched. But you don't want to lynch either of us, which seems like it is not helpful to you if you're scum.

Let's say snix is town and you're scum who sent in a no-kill last night. Which gives a sort of false positive to snix. Well, if you're scum this is your dream scenario, this is what you would have been hoping for, and you definitely support snix and try to lynch me (again, like monkey is doing). But you're not trying to lynch me, so this scenario isn't true.

So whether or not snix is scum, you're not acting like scum would act in any scenario I can think of.

On the other hand, whether snix is scum or not, monkey

is

acting the part of scum.

Only in your world, Elvis. We supposedly should ignore the night action implications against you.

Monkey... seriously, are you this clueless or are you scum?

He could be LYING or scum could have no-killed last night. This is not a black and white issue even if you're not me with the benefit of knowing my allignment. You're acting like the result is definitive and it's not.

It's not definitive, but ecto's previous play and kirby's analysis point to him being scum, imho. No need for the insulting appeal to emotion.

[elvis_knits]

Well I didn't mean to appeal to emotion. If you're telling me you're not clueless and you're really paying attention to this game and thinking things through then I have to conclude that you're scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Well I didn't mean to appeal to emotion. If you're telling me you're not clueless and you're really paying attention to this game and thinking things through then I have to conclude that you're scum.

Which, is, again, OMGUS.

[MonkeyMan576]

In the previous page, Elvis has WIFOM'd(guessing at Ecto's behavior), OMGUS(calling me scummy for voting her), and appealed to emotion(calling me clueless).

My vote stays. I believe snix.

[Ectomancer]

You are definitely clueless. You can believe Snix is a roleblocker and blocked Elvis last night and it still does not make Elvis scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

You are definitely clueless. You can believe Snix is a roleblocker and blocked Elvis last night and it still does not make Elvis scum.

More appeal to emotion. Calling me clueless without actually giving a reason?

[elvis_knits]

How does looking at the possible scenarios = WIFOM?

And I didn't call you scummy for voting me. I showed how anyone who is scum in this situation is going to want to vote me. It's not like I'm mad you're voting me so I'm calling you scum. I showed you how it favors scum to act how you're acting.

Also, I was more asking if you were than calling you clueless. And it's because you are ignoring everything that doesn't match with what you want to do.

[elvis_knits]

You are definitely clueless. You can believe Snix is a roleblocker and blocked Elvis last night and it still does not make Elvis scum.

More appeal to emotion. Calling me clueless without actually giving a reason?

I think the reason is right there.

[MonkeyMan576]

How does looking at the possible scenarios = WIFOM?

And I didn't call you scummy for voting me. I showed how anyone who is scum in this situation is going to want to vote me. It's not like I'm mad you're voting me so I'm calling you scum. I showed you how it favors scum to act how you're acting.

Also, I was more asking if you were than calling you clueless. And it's because you are ignoring everything that doesn't match with what you want to do.

I'm not ignoring alternative evidence. Trying to guess what scum would do vs. what town would do is the very definition of WIFOM, and a possible scum tactic. It's not a towntell, at the least.

[elvis_knits]

Monkey, it's not WIFOM to look at the possible scenarios. Because in EVERY scenario ecto's behavior is not scummy and yours is. I'm not picking one possibility over the other (which would be WIFOM), I'm showing how every scenario supports my conclusion.

[elvis_knits]

It's like if you knew both wine glasses had poison in it, it doesn't matter which one you pick.

[MonkeyMan576]

It's like if you knew both wine glasses had poison in it, it doesn't matter which one you pick.

In Mafia, WIFOM arguments are often a

Scum tactic

used to distract the Town. The scum will make an unusual play at night, which would lead to a situation that would 'clear' them (because players will think, "Why would a scum do that?"). These arguments are sometimes used by Newbies and should be avoided in favor of clearer arguments.

[elvis_knits]

I don't understand how you quoting the wiki makes your point at all.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't understand how you quoting the wiki makes your point at all.

Trying to discern how ecto's play is town vs. scum is WIFOM. WIFOM is scummy, especially when you are the subject of a night action result.

[elvis_knits]

I wasn't making huge leaps there monkey. Unless you think scum don't like to lynch town.

[MonkeyMan576]

I wasn't making huge leaps there monkey. Unless you think scum don't like to lynch town.

Scum will lynch scum all the time. I did it in my last game that just ended. It's called bussing. Standard scum tactic.

[elvis_knits]

I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

I accounted for bussing. If ecto were scum and snix were scum then he could either try to lynch me or go for the buss by lynching snix. Seeing as he doesn't want to de either, I do not think they are scum together.