Mini 848 - Second String Muppets Mafia - Game Over.

[MonkeyMan576]

I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

I accounted for bussing. If ecto were scum and snix were scum then he could either try to lynch me or go for the buss by lynching snix. Seeing as he doesn't want to de either, I do not think they are scum together.

I didn't suggest ecto and snix were scum, I suggested you and ecto were scum.

[kikuchiyo]

Apparently my player slot is corrupted. The only reason I would think Jordan would say "I'm not vanilla" would be to draw an nk. Kind of odd, but it leaves me a bit fucked.

I think MM could surely have been the victim of bussing by Macavity Lock. Elvis' day 1 interaction with ML is quite suspect, as well as Snix/ML.

Hardest thing to swallow at this point in the game is a town aligned roleblocker.

Vote: Snix

I will try to get some more reading in tonight, but I can't promise too much as this thread has my eyes bleeding.

[kikuchiyo]

Just double checked my role pm in case I had missed something. Still vanilla, however, mod said i could talk about my old role as long as i don't quote the pm.

Janitor cleans up a body during night phase eliminating the garnering of information.

[Ectomancer]

It's ok, I'm not worried about it. I know why Jordan likely did it, I'll find a link later. Unvote Snix though. I explained why. Monkey is our lynch today methinks. let's just chat a bit first though.

[MonkeyMan576]

It's ok, I'm not worried about it. I know why Jordan likely did it, I'll find a link later. Unvote Snix though. I explained why. Monkey is our lynch today methinks. let's just chat a bit first though.

More OMGUS. Let's hear from the people I'm not fingering.

[elvis_knits]

Apparently my player slot is corrupted. The only reason I would think Jordan would say "I'm not vanilla" would be to draw an nk. Kind of odd, but it leaves me a bit fucked.

I actually think I know why jordan did that.

You want the mafia to overestimate you as much as possible, especially if ur vanilla.

[Ectomancer]

I was thinking that it had to do with this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=2872

but I think he was subscribing to the idea that as vanilla you should always claim a power role. Not certain that is the right thread. I read quite a bit of Jordan in MD in the weeks prior to this game.

[ekiM]

There will be two scum left. Two scum out of twelve is just about balanced in mountainous, let alone with a town vig, cop, and possibly roleblocker too. Probably both power roles, something like redirector or framer to explain EL.

I'm not bothered that Jordan claimed not to be vanilla, I could see a new player like him doing that.

I'm trying to remember why I thought monkey looked town earlier. He certainly doesn't today.

Ecto's logic on not lynching either Snix or Elvis is sound, unless there's some stronger evidence on either one than I've seen so far. Anyone who disagrees, explain why. His reasoning is here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 87#1911387

I think I need a full re-read but it's Friday and I'm tired.

[ekiM]

What is the flavor justification for Hilda being a roleblocker? According to http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Hilda she is a seamstress.

[Snix]

Here is my problem with not lynching Elvis. But I don't see scum not Night Killing in this type of situation. All it would have taken today (if they had NK'd) was one wrong vote. This doesn't seem like an intelligent gambit. Ecto's fence sitting also worries me. Taking neither side he seems content on hoping that town hits the other scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

There will be two scum left. Two scum out of twelve is just about balanced in mountainous, let alone with a town vig, cop, and possibly roleblocker too. Probably both power roles, something like redirector or framer to explain EL.

I'm not bothered that Jordan claimed not to be vanilla, I could see a new player like him doing that.

I'm trying to remember why I thought monkey looked town earlier. He certainly doesn't today.

Ecto's logic on not lynching either Snix or Elvis is sound, unless there's some stronger evidence on either one than I've seen so far. Anyone who disagrees, explain why. His reasoning is here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 87#1911387

I think I need a full re-read but it's Friday and I'm tired.

I don't like that Ecto proposes who not to lynch, without stating a good lynch target. It sounds like he's just trying to hinder the town, the same way he was trying to hinder the town yesterday by wanting a no lynch and mass claim. Seriously, proposing a no lynch and then claiming a roleblocker is lying about them is a pretty obvious scum gambit in my book.

[kikuchiyo]

I see no reason to unvote at this time. If we follow Ecto, then its either Ekim or Monkey. I will have to reread between the two. Ecto is only "clear" based on the amount of participation and logic I have seen thus far. He certainly didn't come off scummy on Day 1, so yeah.

Someone please explain the issue surrouding EL. I have read much of the thread, but only piecemeal.

Snix: Respond to 708.

Though I cannot shoot holes in Ecto's logic at this time, I can't shake the feeling that Snix is scum. The interaction with MCL is too wierd to ignore.

[Ectomancer]

...and we see Snix begin to break down.

With his buddy Monkey headed to the lynch today, and himself caught in the logic puzzle we will have the liberty to lynch both himself and Elvis, he can't possibly agree to it.

Monkey, however this turns out, you should study this game because many of the things we said here will help you improve your play.

[Ectomancer]

Kiku you will have to unvote at some point. It will take 4 votes to lynch and we can be certain that we will not get Snix's vote on his partner. It is clear he doesnt want it to be Monkey.

What do you mean "issue surrounding EL"? You mean the false guilty on DDD? That is why I think there is a redirector or framer or something on the mafia side. I didnt see sanity issues listed and DDD was a watcher, not miller.

[kikuchiyo]

Kiku you will have to unvote at some point. It will take 4 votes to lynch and we can be certain that we will not get Snix's vote on his partner. It is clear he doesnt want it to be Monkey.

What do you mean "issue surrounding EL"? You mean the false guilty on DDD? That is why I think there is a redirector or framer or something on the mafia side. I didnt see sanity issues listed and DDD was a watcher, not miller.

Makes sense. Maybe that's where the janitor would come in? Kind of a roleblocker to the redirector? I hadn't read the false guilty. That explains a bit, though. I'd rather lynch Snix. Is there reason to believe that he is town? As scum, couldn't he be protecting townMonkey to set us up? It makes sense, I just find it hard to believe that the entire scum team jumped on such poor logic in lylo. Lol.

I'm going to hold out and see if I can change your mind. If need be, I'll switch, but I'd rather stay for now and read more on you and Ekim.

[Ectomancer]

I get the feeling that you haven't finished reading yet. It doesnt matter if Snix or Elvis is scum today because they are trapped in a bubble we can pop tomorrow so long as we choose correctly between 4 of us today (Ecto, Kiku, Ekim, Monkey).

My assessment of you is through my assessment of your predecessor's play.
Ekim is not outstandingly town, but has done some good things and nothing bad that I see.
Monkey has reason upon reason to lynch him. As in, I can't not lynch him today. I'm 90-95% convinced I'm right.

Also, here the url again for why we don't lynch Elvis or Snix today

viewtopic.php?p=1911387#1911387

If you want, we can go even further into why, even if there is a redirector.

Now I do think Snix is likely scum, but we still play it safe.

[MonkeyMan576]

I get the feeling that you haven't finished reading yet. It doesnt matter if Snix or Elvis is scum today because they are trapped in a bubble we can pop tomorrow so long as we choose correctly between 4 of us today (Ecto, Kiku, Ekim, Monkey).

My assessment of you is through my assessment of your predecessor's play.
Ekim is not outstandingly town, but has done some good things and nothing bad that I see.
Monkey has reason upon reason to lynch him. As in, I can't not lynch him today. I'm 90-95% convinced I'm right.

Also, here the url again for why we don't lynch Elvis or Snix today

viewtopic.php?p=1911387#1911387

If you want, we can go even further into why, even if there is a redirector.

Now I do think Snix is likely scum, but we still play it safe.

Ecto is playing exactly like charter(who was actually town but lied about his role, which was scummy). He's trying way to hard to get his way, pretending he is using logic just because he posts the same thing over and over.

[elvis_knits]

There will be two scum left. Two scum out of twelve is just about balanced in mountainous, let alone with a town vig, cop, and possibly roleblocker too. Probably both power roles, something like redirector or framer to explain EL.

I'm not bothered that Jordan claimed not to be vanilla, I could see a new player like him doing that.

I'm trying to remember why I thought monkey looked town earlier. He certainly doesn't today.

Ecto's logic on not lynching either Snix or Elvis is sound, unless there's some stronger evidence on either one than I've seen so far. Anyone who disagrees, explain why. His reasoning is here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 87#1911387

I think I need a full re-read but it's Friday and I'm tired.

I don't like that Ecto proposes who not to lynch, without stating a good lynch target. It sounds like he's just trying to hinder the town, the same way he was trying to hinder the town yesterday by wanting a no lynch and mass claim. Seriously, proposing a no lynch and then claiming a roleblocker is lying about them is a pretty obvious scum gambit in my book.

No. Ecto did not want us to claim yesterday.

Snix is the one who tried to start a mass claim without agreement.

How is "proposing a no-lynch and then claiming a role blocker is lying" an obvious scum gambit?? I have not heard of this one.

[MonkeyMan576]

There will be two scum left. Two scum out of twelve is just about balanced in mountainous, let alone with a town vig, cop, and possibly roleblocker too. Probably both power roles, something like redirector or framer to explain EL.

I'm not bothered that Jordan claimed not to be vanilla, I could see a new player like him doing that.

I'm trying to remember why I thought monkey looked town earlier. He certainly doesn't today.

Ecto's logic on not lynching either Snix or Elvis is sound, unless there's some stronger evidence on either one than I've seen so far. Anyone who disagrees, explain why. His reasoning is here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 87#1911387

I think I need a full re-read but it's Friday and I'm tired.

I don't like that Ecto proposes who not to lynch, without stating a good lynch target. It sounds like he's just trying to hinder the town, the same way he was trying to hinder the town yesterday by wanting a no lynch and mass claim. Seriously, proposing a no lynch and then claiming a roleblocker is lying about them is a pretty obvious scum gambit in my book.

No. Ecto did not want us to claim yesterday.

Snix is the one who tried to start a mass claim without agreement.

How is "proposing a no-lynch and then claiming a role blocker is lying" an obvious scum gambit?? I have not heard of this one.

Because you avoid a lynch and then avoid responsibility of any night action results.

[elvis_knits]

How is that a gambit though and please tell me why you lied about ecto. He didn't want a mass claim AND a no lynch. He wanted a no-lynch. He didn't want a mass claim.

[MonkeyMan576]

@621
Mass claim and get this over with?

@633
No lynch should have occurred without conversation.

Gonna apologize about the "lying" statement?

It's a gambit because the mafia is trying to get away with as few deaths as possible.

[elvis_knits]

No, I will not be apologizing because those quotes are completely out of context monkey.

Did you miss what ecto was saying all day yesterday??

I believe we are in a No Lynch situation.

A No Lynch is simple math.

Pro-town - No Lynch in order to mathematically improve odds.

So do you two plan to wait until Jordan gets here so you can at best get a /random roll, or are you going to move the game along and vote No Lynch?

There are more quotes... ecto wants to no-lynch all day long. He onle talks about massclaiming when he thinks he has no choice.

If we decide to lynch, we can argue over mass claims, etc when that time comes.

[elvis_knits]

It's a gambit because the mafia is trying to get away with as few deaths as possible.

I don't think you know what gambit means.

[MonkeyMan576]

No, I will not be apologizing because those quotes are completely out of context monkey.

Did you miss what ecto was saying all day yesterday??

I believe we are in a No Lynch situation.

A No Lynch is simple math.

Pro-town - No Lynch in order to mathematically improve odds.

So do you two plan to wait until Jordan gets here so you can at best get a /random roll, or are you going to move the game along and vote No Lynch?

There are more quotes... ecto wants to no-lynch all day long. He onle talks about massclaiming when he thinks he has no choice.

If we decide to lynch, we can argue over mass claims, etc when that time comes.

I don't buy that. We always have choices. Your hyper-defence of ecto is rather telling.

[elvis_knits]

No, I will not be apologizing because those quotes are completely out of context monkey.

Did you miss what ecto was saying all day yesterday??

I believe we are in a No Lynch situation.

A No Lynch is simple math.

Pro-town - No Lynch in order to mathematically improve odds.

So do you two plan to wait until Jordan gets here so you can at best get a /random roll, or are you going to move the game along and vote No Lynch?

There are more quotes... ecto wants to no-lynch all day long. He onle talks about massclaiming when he thinks he has no choice.

If we decide to lynch, we can argue over mass claims, etc when that time comes.

I don't buy that. We always have choices. Your hyper-defence of ecto is rather telling.

HOW CAN YOU NOT BUY THAT? Read ecto's posts. Is there really any doubt he wanted a no lynch and he did NOT want a mass claim??