Mini 843- The Fast and the Furious Mafia! (Over-Mod Error)

[SpyreX]

Thats cause he's hitched himself to the alpha and the omega. I am the bringer of death.

[don_johnson]

DJ, seems VERY overconfident today. I need to go back and re-read a bit.

as opposed to when?

you don't need to reread. you need to think of some more bullshit.

[Starbuck]

you don't need to reread. you need to think of some more bullshit.

Your rudeness is not needed or warranted.

[don_johnson]

you don't need to reread. you need to think of some more bullshit.

Your rudeness is not needed or warranted.

kind of like your appeals to emotion.

*sigh* sorry. sometimes dj doesn't know when to say when.

speaking of which: do you have any opinions now, or are we going to have to wait for your reread?

[afatchic]

Sorry guys, for some reason my comp. hasn't wanted to load the MS page. I'll get to a votecount when i get home.

[Starbuck]

Sorry guys, for some reason my comp. hasn't wanted to load the MS page. I'll get to a votecount when i get home.

It's not just you. The site was down. They were doing maintenance to get ready to move to the new server.

[MordyS]

I'd love to know if Starbuck intends to do any scumhunting today.

[Starbuck]

I'm currently in work in Notepad and re-reading.

[SpyreX]

You mean posting 13 times in your other games, right?

[MordyS]

I hate to do this, but I just reread Boxman, and in light of the SK flip, I'm less certain that he's scum. In particular:

(Sep 13, 2009 2:57 pm) ShadowKnight: Short posts, and very few of them. Would appear to be active lurking. Leaning scum here as well.

This was written long before a consensus had formed on SK. And here:

(Oct 07, 2009 4:30 pm)SK is a whole other story. Aside from his monster post on faraday, which no one is going to read ever, especially since it is a town read, most of SK's posts are short with some content. Honestly, given the choice between Mordy and SK, I think SK looks scummier.

When he wrote this post, only SpyreX had voted for SK. The vote count after Boxman's vote was:

TJoe Min Ja-(2)- Starbuck, don_johnson
DonJohnson-(2)- Tjoe Min Ja, Faraday
Shadow Knight-(2)- SpyerX, Boxman
MordyS-(1)- JereIC
Boxman-(1)- MordyS

This essentially means that if he were looking for a better target than throwing his partner under the bus, he could've easily helped drive a lynch on TMJ or DJ (putting either at 3 votes, instead of putting SK at 2). While it's possible that he predicted SK was going down, and decided to preempt the wagon, it seems more likely that he's clean. I'm unvoting for now (L-1 worries me), tho if Spyre (or one of the other Boxman-voters) can convince me otherwise, I'm swayable. (There is other mitigating evidence against Boxman, but nothing imho as persuasive as what I've just presented in his favor.)

[MordyS]

Oops. EBOWP:

Unvote

[SpyreX]

Hmmmm.

Ok, lets play talky-time then.

Assume that Box ISNT scum and the above is true (you are putting more weight on those than I do, but lets play along).

You, then, either as scum just saved a mislynch that you could have easily finger-pointed at me on (which seems unlikely) or are being towny mctowntown and are going down a path of salvation (which could be true).

So, at that point, who IS the scum?

I'm far too awesome to be scum. It's pretty clear.
DJ took a path of little gain and great risk (chaining himself to me means no town cred on a scum flip AND a lot of suspicion on a town one) which doesn't strike me as awesome.
If we rule out box, based on the above I'd be very tempted to rule you out.
KOC being a scum inventor doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

That leaves us with: Faraday, JereIC, Starbuck.

Faraday has got a town-vibe a flowin. No one has claimed that other kill and I could easily see them taking a shot that way.

So, Jere and Starbuck? One throwing the hammer down on a partner while the other tries to save them?

Hmmm. Maaybee.

[MordyS]

Your case looks very close to the one I just typed up. Take a look at this:

I'm sure I'm about to sound like a broken record here, but I'd like to point something out. Consider this in addition to any argument I've made against Starbuck in the past. I was curious about possible links between Starbuck and SK. Starbuck did a good job of tempering her defense, making it impossible to tell whether she defended SK because she's scum or because she sincerely believed her defense. I wondered, though, how SK may have treated Starbuck over the last day. So I pulled up a bunch of quotes and I'm presenting them as objects of curious interest.

(Oct 03, 2009 7:51 am) Holy crap. With every post they make, Tjoe and DJ just get scummier and scummier.

@Spyre- personally, I think your case on me is bull, but if you really think I'm the best lead, then by all means, vote me. What makes DJ scummy, is the fact that he's blatantly barning you (then jumping across to the Starbuck wagon on a horrible case made by Tjoe).

Makes me feel much better about DJ and Tjoe in hindsight. Also, the first time he ever mentions Starbuck (outside his huge wall of text defense on Faraday). Basically he attacks DJ for joining a Starbuck wagon. Not defending Starbuck explicitly, but attacking DJ. Possibly a good way to protect a partner without making it explicit. (Quick sidenote: I feel good about Faraday in light of the SK lynch. I don't think the dumbest scum writes a million word post trying to clear their partner.) Here's a bit of a wall of text of quotes where SK basically does the same thing over and over: Attempt to defend Starbuck from a wagon, not by defending her explicitly (which might draw a connection between them), but by attacking the people on her wagon (basically TJ, DJ, and myself).

(Oct 03, 2009 5:14 pm) Then, today, I get 2 new leads in Tjoe (who voted for Starbuck, a claimed neighbor with no counter claim and then tried to force a bandwagon based on V/LA claim) and you DJ, who have done nothing at all except barn Spyre. In the interest of not posting 2 walls of text, I'm trying to figure out which of you I want to put the time and effort into building a case on.

(Oct 03, 2009 5:54 pm) @Tjoe- in light of your attack on Starbuck for the V/LA issue, how do you feel about DJ defending his early lurking with RL issues but then shortly thereafter offering to cross replace into another game? If you're so lurker concious, why didn't you jump all over him for that?

(Oct 08, 2009 9:15 pm, re: His Case on DJ) 3- Disappears for a while, cites school, but pops back in when someone mentions that he's lurking to agree with the case on starbuck and throw some dirt on doombunny.

I look at the list of people left and here's what I come up with:

Knights of Cydonia/Tjoe: Verified at inventor by two players (Faraday, JereIC), also attacked by SK.
Faraday: Got a townie feeling off him earlier. Some of that shine has rubbed off, but looking back at SK's huge bizarre defense post on him, I feel in my gut that he's town.
SpyerX: Lead the wagon on SK, feels very town to me.
Boxman: Read my explanation above for why I believe he's town.
DJ: Haven't liked his posts at all, but after seeing SK's attacks on me, I'm feeling like he might be town.
JereIC: My second most scummy target. His lurking and general gameplay has given me a general scum feeling, but I don't have an explicit read on him yet.
Starbuck: My target for today. I'm willing to hear whether my case is totally wrong/misguided, but she's been giving me bad impressions all day, and I can't shake this feeling that she's scum.

[bold]Vote: Starbuck[/bold]

[SpyreX]

You know what?

I like your style.

Lets give each other high fives and make this happen.

Unvote, Vote: Starbuck

[Boxman]

Whoa, I come back and there are votes on me and then removed in the space of a day.

I'm assuming you don't want a claim out of me anymore, but I'm looking over SK's posts and, considering Starbuck's move to help him at L-1, it does make her look suspect. It also colors my feelings about dj - SK was pushing especially hard for dj's lynch. Either there was some major bussing going on, or dj is not a member of the mafia. I feel it is the latter.

Star isn't posting much in this game either - little scumhunting aside from pushing the suspicion on her onto Tjoe, who is probably the closest thing to clear we have.

That said, she is the only person to come forward and claim neighbor - however, neighbors can be and often are scum.

Not voting yet(awaiting votecount), but a

Very Strong FoS: Starbuck

.

[don_johnson]

well then. it wouldn't be a bandwagon without don_johnson!

unvote, vote: starbuck

oh, i'm sorry. was that rude?

[Starbuck]

Wow, another quick bandwagon.

No one is even going to mention the fact that DJ is joining the bandwagons without cases of his own?

[MordyS]

No, but I'll mention the fact that you were building a case in Notepad more than an hour ago and came back with a one sentence about DJ's wagoning (which has already been discussing w/r/t to other lynches).

[Starbuck]

Also, I guess the fact that MS was down for almost a full day doesn't matter either?

[MordyS]

Doesn't matter to what?

[Starbuck]

We are at 27 pages and I'm re-reading back thru the game which definitely takes longer than an hour. I have Mozilla, so I have that nice tab thing open where I have this game open in one and the rest of MS in another (plus my other random sites in other tabs).

It's also about 3 am for me and I haven't been to bed yet. So I may not have this up until sometime tomorrow.

Currently though,

FOS: everyone on my wagon, for pushing for a quicklynch twice

[Starbuck]

DJ - Day 1

Day 1 - Vote History
He never RVS votes
Votes Boxman - For a semi decent reason, no complaints
Votes Animo - No reason, except his tagline (oh no he didn't, yes he did).


He has a significant amount of lurking all through this day, but I have been busy too so I can't really hold it against the guy. I didn't go back and count his posts because I'm not Tjoe, but it's worth mentioning.

I really don't have any issue with his posts at the beginning of the game until Post 214. Officially entering skim mode and then asking if someone will garner his vote instead of coming up with his own case?

He doesn't give reasons when he votes. He waits until questioned like when Faraday asks him why he's voting for Ani, he replies here.

[Starbuck]

DJ - Day 2

Lots of Vote Hopping on this day.

Day 2 Vote History
Votes Tjoe - No complaints about reasons here
Votes SK - Completely parrots off SpyreX
Votes Me - For no reason other than ad hom
ReVotes SK
Votes Tjoe - Even admits his vote hop here
ReVotes Tjoe - For no reason
Votes SK - Finally comes up with his own case, I am definitely getting the feeling of bussing here

i have to go with my gut here and think spyrex must be scum. sorry, man, but you should get whacked night one, all the time, when you are town.

He seems pretty certain here that Spyre is scum. Why the change of heart?



He says this:

i think starbuck is clear without a counterclaim.

someone should investigate her. lynching at this point is stupid. her role is as confirmed as it can be, and her alignment can be discovered other ways. continuing to push this angle is distracting from actual scumhunting imo, and the behavior itself should be indicative of lazy scum latching onto the "easy" suspicion.

But then says this?

i never said starbuck was "clear" due to her claim. i just said it was stupid to argue the truthfulness of it. shadow knight: wonderful omgus and deflection. i will ask you again, if the case is bad, debunk it for us.

He completely contradicts himself!

Then Tjoe brings up my post #s and he jumps all over that VERY opportunistically.

nice omgus. your scumhunting is magnificent. perhaps you would care to address the "case" presented by tjoe? you say you had no time to post. he has presented evidence of 36 posts during this time period. sounds like you had plenty of time. again: what gives?

This post directed towards Faraday bothers me:

faraday: so its scummy to pressure other players to respond to cases brought against them that contain tangible evidence?

you realize that you are now voting for someone who has backed off two wagons that were at L-1?

spyrex: lovin it. i am much surprised that oone is coming forward and acknowledging receipt of an item from our 'inventor". seems silly for him not to have used his ability last night, and if someone is witholding info then they are most likely scum so i see no reason for tjoe to be protecting his target here.

The bolded is very, very scummy.



You guys are all over me about suggesting that Vin seemed more like a bodyguard, but look at this:

^^ vin seems more like a bodyguard. i doubt ani was doc. i think he may very well have been scum.

DJ AGREED with me.

if we mislynch, we mislynch a power role regardless. we are all power roles. "bodyguard" isn't all that good anyway, if his ability works, it still doesn't clear anyone as we have no way of knowing who he's taking the bullet for.

I know this was talking about SK, but this is seriously scummy in my eyes. It seems like he doesn't care who is lynched (as his vote history shows, in my eyes) as long as someone is.



He also started using racial slurs here.

shadowkniggit wrote:

Mod - I find the above to be very offensive and out of line.

I also don't care for his constant ad hom attacks that are just rampant throughout his posts.

[Boxman]

"Shadowkniggit" seems to be more of a play on ShadowKnight's name than a racial slur. You're taking the quote tags there too seriously.

Yeah, dj's posting record is a bit... weird, but the fact that SK was really pushing for a dj lynch makes me less suspicious.

[Starbuck]

DJ - Day 3

Day 3 Vote History
Votes Boxman - For nothing other than: Oh no I didn't, Yes he did. But then asks Spyre here, why Boxman is being voted?
Votes Me - For no reason of his own other than "it wouldn't be a bandwagon without DJ" and then another rude remark.


Most of his posts so far today have added nothing to the conversation, and some just reek of overconfidence and cockiness, like scum close to a win, such as

how you like me now?

oh yeah. spyrex is waaaayyyyyyyy town!

^^ come on, now. we can't all be don_johnson.

He doesn't even know why he's voting Boxman??

vote: boxman

"oh no he didn't!"

yes. he did.

And the very next post...

ebwop: wait.

spyrex: why are we voting boxman?

DJ, seems VERY overconfident today. I need to go back and re-read a bit.

as opposed to when?

you don't need to reread. you need to think of some more bullshit.

Also, more adhom attacks and general rudeness.