Mafia 102: No-Frills Game Thread(Town wins!)

[SerialClergyman]

Sando - don't tell me I touched a nerve, did I?

What are your thoughts about bigmc's alignment?

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 450):

RayFrost - 2(mask man, crypto)
Staple - 4(le Chat, bigmc109, muh316, Pomegranate)
crypto - 1(X_~)
X_~ - 1(EtherealCookie)
muh316 - 1(Sando)
bigmc109 - 4(Staple, charter, Empking, SerialClergyman)
charter - 1(hiphop)

Not Voting:Kaiveran, RayFrost

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[hiphop]

I'm saying it's obviously not a scumtell, since I do it as town, but oh wait, that's why you're voting me. And you still are.

It is because you try to say all the points against him are bad, when only a few points are weak.

It also appears that you are trying to use your town meta, to say you are town. Which you could be playing to it.

[Sando]

Sando - don't tell me I touched a nerve, did I?

What are your thoughts about bigmc's alignment?

Sorry dude, that's not the spot, I've heard you struggle with finding the spot though, so I'll forgive you.

Bgmc, quite possibly scum, certainly up there, I just tend to like the fact that he's talkative, prepared to defend his position. I think that his attack on Staples was opportunistic, ie scummy. However, the fact that he's prepared to defend that position and not back down makes me think it was less opportunistic and more thought out than I initially thought.

Muh on the other hand... What do you think of Muh, who doesn't post much to the point where he's basically forced to post, jumps on the best looking BW, then shuts up again?

Why is Bigmc better than Muh?

[charter]

Bigmc tried to set up a muh lynch if (when) staple flips town.

hiphop, if I do it as town as well, it isn't a scumtell, hence not a reason to vote me. Obviously I could still be scum and doing it, but you can't vote me for that reason since I do it as town too (you can, but it's a really bad/scummy vote).

[SerialClergyman]

This. Bigmc and mug both make opportunistic and scummy attacks, but then bigmc says if staple
flips town he'll go after muh. Super scummy points to bigmc and if that's true then provisional townie points to muh. And pom came out in favour of bigmc, so add that to the list. And charter is in favour of a bigmc lynch and seems very town to me.

And then you chose to vote muh instead of bigmc which earns you provisional scummy points.

Now we just need to get some coal in the engine of this wagon. All aboard!

[Sando]

Post 363

Unvote, Vote: Muh316

Post 398

Yes, muh is looking pretty bad, and if Staple flips town, I'll definetely be voting muh tomorrow.

And then you chose to vote muh instead of bigmc which earns you provisional scummy points.

Wanna rethink that one there champ, or would you rather keep making up your own timeline? You’re not stupid, a misrep like that doesn’t look like an honest mistake to me. Or would like to keep claiming that I voted Muh after Bigmc posted setting up a second lynch?

I voted Muh before Bigmc did what you think was scummy, I don’t think Muh has done anything to remove my vote, Bigmc has been posting, scumhunting etc. I want my vote on Muh for reasons previously stated.

[SerialClergyman]

.. who said anythign about a timeline?

I'm not claiming you voted muh after bigmc set up the second lynch. I'm claiming that you had (have) a direct choice between the two and you chose (and are still voting) the wrong one (in my eyes.)

Given my reasoning at the moment puts scumbigmc trying to chainlynch townmuh after townstaple, the fact that you continue to push for muh's lynch over bigmc makes you scummy by default.

[Sando]

Bigmc and mug both make opportunistic and scummy attacks, but then bigmc says if staple
flips town he'll go after muh. Super scummy points to bigmc and if that's true then provisional townie points to muh. And pom came out in favour of bigmc, so add that to the list. And charter is in favour of a bigmc lynch and seems very town to me.

And then

you chose to vote muh instead of bigmc which earns you provisional scummy points.

When you say "and then" it means you're saying that I did that after what you'd previously mentioned. I've shown that the major point you have against Bigmc happened after my post, and I believe the rest did as well. You implied that I only did it after everything else you mentioned.

I'm not claiming you voted muh after bigmc set up the second lynch. I'm claiming that you had (have) a direct choice between the two and you chose (and are still voting) the wrong one (in my eyes.)

Given my reasoning at the moment puts scumbigmc trying to chainlynch townmuh after townstaple, the fact that you continue to push for muh's lynch over bigmc makes you scummy by default.

So you're categorically saying that Muh is town? Or are you saying that your reasoning is so awesome that anyone not toeing the line is by default scum?

Given that I've said that I find Muh's inactivity, followed by jumping on the Staple BW, followed by refusing to show up now that pressure has been applied, why would I stop applying the pressure given he's

still

doing what I find scummy?

[SerialClergyman]

1) rubbish - I also said

And

charter is in favour of a bigmc lynch, but that didn't mean it happened after everything I wrote before it. The 'and then' was to indicate why I started on you.

But whatever - this whole line of discussion is a bit of a red herring I think. The key thing is you are still favouring one over the other.

2) Well, bigmc's townflip would certainly put a crimp in my theory, as well as muh's scumflip. I'm saying that for me, my reasoning suggests that people who would choose to vote muh over bigmc are more likely to be scum. If bigmc flips scum, you are definitely likely to be a buddy of his. You can choose to do as you like, and disagree with my reads as much as you like, I'm letting you and everyone else know what I'm seeing in this game.

[Sando]

If bigmc flips scum, you are definitely likely to be a buddy of his.

Yeah righto, because I've gone totally out of my way to try and defend him...

1) rubbish - I also said And charter is in favour of a bigmc lynch, but that didn't mean it happened after everything I wrote before it. The 'and then' was to indicate why I started on you.

Then: subsequently or soon afterward

'And' has no timeline connotation, 'then' does. Seems pretty clear that you were saying that 'first this happened,

and then

this happened'. Wait wait, I'll quote it for you:

Bigmc and mug both make opportunistic and scummy attacks, but then bigmc says if staple
flips town he'll go after muh. Super scummy points to bigmc and if that's true then provisional townie points to muh. And pom came out in favour of bigmc, so add that to the list. And charter is in favour of a bigmc lynch and seems very town to me.

And then

you chose to vote muh instead of bigmc which earns you provisional scummy points.

Yep, that's exactly what it looks like.

The key thing is you are still favouring one over the other.

So are you, so is everyone every time they vote someone, what's your point? Do you think my reasoning is invalid? Or do you merely think that your reasoning is better than mine? Considering you seem to have conveniently forgotten the meaning of the word 'then', forgive me if I don't just blindly follow your reasoning.

But by your reasoning, if Bigmc turns scum, I get lynched, if Muh turns scum, you get lynched?

[SerialClergyman]

I don't care about the 'and then' point and am dropping it.

As for the second point, I'm not going to get drawn in by your little barbs or silly questions. Your perogative is to find scum, presumably, and that doesn't mean having little deals about who to lynch under what circumstances. Currently I have a theory of the game that makes you scummier than average, time to convince me otherwise if you're that worried about it, not try to push the point beyond recognition.

[Sando]

I don't care about the 'and then' point and am dropping it.

You want to drop the issue of you mis-representing me? Colour me surprised.

As for the second point, I'm not going to get drawn in by your little barbs or silly questions. Your perogative is to find scum, presumably, and that doesn't mean having little deals about who to lynch under what circumstances. Currently I have a theory of the game that makes you scummier than average, time to convince me otherwise if you're that worried about it, not try to push the point beyond recognition.

Your theory is fairly ludicrous, and you know it. Your theory can basically be summarised as 'you're voting someone other than me, so you're scum'. Your theory is amazingly arrogant, something I know that you're normally not, I'm forced to wonder why.

And I wasn't suggesting a 'deal', I was asking confirmation regarding this theory that you have. Interesting that you saying '

Sando is scum if Bigmc flips scum

' is a theory, me suggesting that '

Serial is scum if Muh flips scum

' is a little deal.

I like that you don't want to get drawn into my 'little barbs' though, after:

You'll get much more kudos if you get on the wagon and start bussing

Clearly it's me playing word games and not you...

[SerialClergyman]

Oh, you think I misrepresented you? Well ok, you keep pushing that line.

My theory isn't ludicrous at all, it's about as good as you'll get on D1. Two scummy votes on the VI, one of them then threatening to turn on the other the next day - easy vote for bigmc. If I'm right about bigmc being scum, those trying to push the alternate wagon are more likely to be scum. That simple. Happy to be sitting where I'm sitting.

[Empking]

BigMc: In regards to 447. Why do you think people find Muh and co scummy for parrotting you, when most of the players for Muh's lynch find you the scummiest?

[charter]

MOD, what is the status of prods/replacements

I feel like only half the players in this game are participating and it hurting the game bad.

[crypto]

Charter, Staple is scummy because he said he would start taking the game seriously (in terms of scum hunting, I believe) and then never did. When he asked people to give him something to comment about—that's utter scum BS. Flagrant scum tell. He has experience. He doesn't need to ask. Townies read through the thread and post (hell, so do half-decent scum). Look at his other ongoing game. He clearly knows what he's doing to a degree where he doesn't need to ask to be spoon-fed information to comment on.

Oh, yeah, and add to the steaming heap of evidence that Staple is scum that he piggybacks on my Pomegranate attack. He hadn't said a word about Pom until then.

I don't get why BMC is taking so much heat. If my memory serves me correctly, he didn't say anything that marks him as scummy as Charter and SC have made him out to be. Setting up future bandwagons is not a scum tell. Townies have done it many times. I've done it

a lot

. The argument against BMC is a load of crap. SC looks worse than Charter because he's the one doing the following. He seems to be trying really hard to get a scum read from my gut.

Pomegranate or Staple should be lynched. Or RayFrost, if he continues to be a complete asshole.

I might've mentioned this before, but another thing about Pomegranate:

I think it's reasonable to notice that I was V/LA for about 6 pages of content. During read-throughs everything jumbles it self into a pile of posts.

That's bull. Six pages are not nearly enough information to confuse Pom so much that she can't even make some decent observations.

Especially

when she continued to make (glib) remarks about recent posts.

[crypto]

I was ready to vote bigmc since he strted lining up lynches. Then pom spoke up on his side and I had one of those happy crystalising moments.

And pom came out in favour of bigmc, so add that to the list.

So if Pom supports BMC, he's scum, and if Pom attacks BMC, he's scum?

I'm not claiming you voted muh after bigmc set up the second lynch. I'm claiming that you had (have) a direct choice between the two and you chose (and are still voting) the wrong one (in my eyes.)

This is a horrible argument. When Sando voted, BMC had hardly any suspicion on him. Muh was the clear choice.

SC also just broke the flimsy gut meta that gave me a town read on him. Yecch.

---

Red lines are attacks. Blue lines are defenses. Dotted lines are what I judge to be implicit or weak; solid lines are full blown.

[crypto]

And they're numbered chronologically.

[SerialClergyman]

crypto - lining up lynches in D1 on townflips is absolutely a scumtell. Saying if A turns up scum we should lynch B is fine, because you're looking at scumteams. But saying if A is town, we should move on to B is an easy way to get a couple of mislynches, andin this case they were two juicy targets. It looks to me like bigmc went for lynchbait number one and signalled his intent to turn on lynchbait number two (and co-voter of staple) the next day.

Yes, when someone does something I think is scummy and the people against him I think are town and the people for him I think are scummy, it absolutely has an impact on the read. Charter being anti-bigmc and Pom being pro-bigmc is good news for my read.

As for being a follower -

Early reports from my gut suggest staple is likely to be the VI scapegoat lynch.

[SerialClergyman]

This is a horrible argument. When Sando voted, BMC had hardly any suspicion on him. Muh was the clear choice.

Sando has had plenty of time to change his vote and hasn't. He's in the camp I find scummy along with Pom (although that's obviously dependent on a bigmc scumflip)

[crypto]

No, lining up lynches is not a scum tell in any situation. Furthermore, I doubt BMC-scum would be so

stupid

bold as to say that. (Watch him turn out scum now that I've said that.)

I think Muh is a much better choice for a lynch than BMC. So you should FOS me as well.

You win as far as not following goes.

[SerialClergyman]

Disagree totally on lining up lynches, especially D1. Absolute scumtell.

I'm also too cool to FoS . But your position is noted for when we know bigmc's alignment.

[crypto]

Fo sho.

I doubt BMC is scum. My beef is more with the case against him, especially in light of MUCH scummier player (Staple, Pom). Arbitrarily tagging Staple the village idiot is yecch.

I think you're giving Charter too much leeway. I don't have a scum read on him, but using him as support for your BMC case is also yecch.

You didn't explain the contradiction in the 466 quotes.

[EtherealCookie]

Ehrm. I don't see how BMC is scummy. Can someone explain the case against him?

[SerialClergyman]

Gotta run, so will answer quickly -

a) charter looks town to me. Following townreads is another solid play of mine early.
b) It wasn't arbitrary. Staple looked town to me. Some reads are better than others, and obviously I think his play is unhelpful, but that doesn't make him scum.
c) There is no contradiction in the 466 quotes, which is why I didn't say anything about them. Have a look again - I'm saying Pom supported bigmc, and given I had a scum read on Pom before that started that made me happier with my read on bigmc.
Short version - if Pom attacked bigmc I'd be more worried about my read, and possibly more inclined to view Pom or bigmc as town. As it was, my two biggest scumreads agreed with each other, and I sit happy in my theory.