Mini 843- The Fast and the Furious Mafia! (Over-Mod Error)

[don_johnson]

i disagree. but whatever. if starbuck flips town then tomorrow should probably be a mass claim. at that point, the inventor role would become more clear as well as faraday/spyrex. if everything pans out for those roles(and unless this lynch is a town win) it will most likely be dj/mordys tomorrow.

*takes off t-shirt. points to "uber-town" tatooed on chest.*

"let's do this."

[MordyS]

What bothers me about Faraday/JereIC/Knights of Cydonia is that, even when they participate, they're really coasting during this game. It's not townie behavior. There's been almost no scum-hunting or discussion out of them. The whole thing has gotten me very paranoid, and I'm starting to feel like almost anyone could be a good lynch at this point. (I have very few super town reads, and a lot of neutral/wavering-scum reads.)

[don_johnson]

What bothers me about Faraday/JereIC/Knights of Cydonia is that, even when they participate, they're really coasting during this game. It's not townie behavior. There's been almost no scum-hunting or discussion out of them. The whole thing has gotten me very paranoid, and I'm starting to feel like almost anyone could be a good lynch at this point. (I have very few super town reads, and a lot of neutral/wavering-scum reads.)

they have all claimed some sort of evidentiary facets. i.e. one is claimed inventor, two have claimed to have recieved inventions. faraday has shown some scumhunting(just not very good). also, we have two conflicting softclaims which methinks will make it easy to find the sk if the scumteam is, in fact starbuck/shadow/animorph.

i'd rather not discuss this more at this time, but some sort of contribution(including, but not solely consisting of, a hammer) should be made by the three players in question.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I have a day off college tomorrow. That day will be my Mafia day. Oh, and there's that Philosophy essay to write. And the Politics one. But Mafia will be done first.

Mordy, stop throwing bullcrap out and read what other people have posted. I'm at college. I do not have a massive amount of time to lurk on this forum. When I get chances to do proper posting, I do it. Saying "I could lynch anyone" is also very suspect - lining up so that when you switch targets, you can point at that post and say "I already told you, so I'm not flip-flopping at all,

honest!

"?

[MordyS]

I have a day off college tomorrow. That day will be my Mafia day.

Go for it, dude. That's today, correct?

[SpyreX]

I'm shocked and awed:

1. My thoughts were focused on other people than SK.
2. I don't understand what you are getting at here. Elaborate please?
3. Where have I used my meta at all? Serious Strawman here. I debunked Tjoe's case on me and he was using outside the game influences towards his case. Mordy is now doing the same thing because I posted a question in the general mafia discussion area.
4. Someone not talking about someone else isn't always a scum tell
5. WTF are you talking about? I would like you to list similiarities.

1.) So, in a mini, it takes 60+ posts before you mention someone. How? Why? Further, your stance was one of DEFENSE based on flavor grounds of a now proven scum, which leads me into:

2.)

I definitely don't think that Ani was a neutral survivor because of the following bolded line.

As the sun was going down on the first day for the town, they began narrowing down their suspects. Animorpherv1 slowly began getting pressured, until he finally cracked. As he was pushed up the the lynching rope, and was asked to claim, he put the rope around his own neck, and right before he jumped, he yelled,

"I'm a Doct..."

I do think he listed him as neutral because he was modkilled. I don't like that you just assume that though.

Now, this is your quote. Based on 66 you are insinuating that this statement above means that you DO NOT believe a.) he was neutral and apparently b.) that he was a doctor.

Now, color me confused because every which way I hold that up it sure reads "He wasn't a survivor, but he was a doctor". No reference to him being SCUM (which is what your defense of Sk would entail) is made.

3.) Ahh, yea, I must be strawmanning right:

If you guys need to check out my meta

in order to prove that I don't actively lurk, flake, or drop out of games, please do so. I replace into more games than I actually start from the beginning. I did have real life stuff come up due to the fact that I am in the military, and had posted as such in the V/LA thread as well as in each of my games.

No examples of anything, and yes, I do admit that I was absent for the time due to work & real life stuff.

But my meta can disprove the fact

that I actively lurk or flake.

I have never replaced out of any of my games, and if you need to see a history of my games and view my activity please

go to my Wiki.

Also about #3, it wasn't anything to do with the games I'm currently in.

My guess is that you have never read my Wiki

, and therefore aren't doing your full background check.

The fact that you are both using outside the game influences now, bothers me. There's a reason why there's a general mafia discussion forum, and now I'm having shit given to me because I posted that question.

Now, follow me here. Meta, by nature,

is bad

is an outside influence of a specific game. You were quick to say "look at my meta!" as a defense when questioned. Yet, on the other side:

I would pop in to read up when I had a chance, but I didn't have any time to respond. I'm pretty sure you all have had times like this when you've played. But as I said earlier, I've never once dropped from a game or have I been replaced. Actually, I've replaced into a great number of games.

If I have something come up, I always let the mods know and I post in the V/LA thread. Just because someone's V/LA doesn't mean they can't at least read and stay up on things. Also, I have games going on that are moving very slow compared to this one, so it wasn't too hard to stay up on that. But I guess it doesn't matter.

At this point, he's using outside the game influences and not anything that's happened in the game.

As I said before, if you guys want to lynch me. I'll make it easy for you.

Unvote
Vote: Starbuck

I'm against self votes but this is getting ridiculous.

It's obvious that I'll never win this argument and I'm done. This game has become super unfun for me having a person in a town neighbors team with me that never showed up and cost us our ability, coming clean about all of that and still being doubted,

and then having outside influences being used as a case

.

If you want to hammer me or have me hammer me after this, I'm fine with that. I just want to help the town garner info and I think I have here. Unfortunately, my schedule did get in the way and I'll make sure never to play a game with Tjoe again for using outside of the game influences. It's fucking weak. Apparently, you can't even fucking check the site when you are V/LA and keep up on your slow moving games. Are we done analyzing my personal life and my real life? Or do we need to keep going over and over this?

Are we going to keep letting stuff happening outside of the game fuck up what's going on inside the game?

How so? I'm asking a general question in the Mafia Discussion and I didn't name any of my roles. I'm also in six games currently. Should I have waited until I'm not playing any games to ask a general question? I thought that was what that forum was for.

If you read my Wiki, the games I'm currently in are listed but with no information about them other than what the game is, the mod, and the number of players.

Sounds like you are trying to pull a Tjoe by using things that are outside this game.

Also about #3, it wasn't anything to do with the games I'm currently in. My guess is that you have never read my Wiki, and therefore aren't doing your full background check.

The fact that you are both using outside the game influences now, bothers me.

There's a reason why there's a general mafia discussion forum, and now I'm having shit given to me because I posted that question.

Yea, I think that about sums that up.

NEXT

4.) A confirmed scum flipping who's only real mention of you was defensive in nature then bolstered by your only real interaction

again being defensive

is a scumtell. It's one I'd lynch on every time.

Even if its wrong (which again, I doubt) its still a legitimate tell. Pushing it as otherwise is woosh.

5.) I've posted TOO many words to want to go into this in detail but lets look at it:

1.) I post a case on SK.
2.) DJ jumps on.
3.) SK attacks DJ.
4.) I go what the hell?
5.) SK flips scum.

1.) Mord posts a case on you.
2.) I and DJ jump on.
3.) Starbuck attacks DJ.
4.) I again go what the hell?
5.) Well, we're not here yet but guess what I done expect to be here!

[SpyreX]

Ohh yea the tl;dr version:

Talk some, then lynch Starbuck. Win prizes.

[JereIC]

Ok, I've had a solid hour to read the Starbuck case, and I've got some questions.

SpyreX: What's the relevance of your fifth point (that both SK and SB went after DJ when they were in trouble)? It's doubtful they coordinated that defensive mechanism in QuickTopic - is it just that DJ's an easy target for them to try to divert suspicion to?

Mordy:
1. In post 662, you state that, "Starbuck did a good job of tempering her defense, making it impossible to tell whether she defended SK because she's scum or because she sincerely believed her defense." Was it scummy she came to his defense at all, or is that a null tell?
2. At the end of Day 1 (post 244), you said that you thought Starbuck was poor town rather than scummy. However, you started Day 2 saying you thought she was scum and that "Coming into Day Two with a classic scum-tell only helps matters." Besides the scum tell, what changed your mind from late Day 1 to early Day 2?
3. Back to post 662, you also stated that the points you made about SK's subtle defense of her were in addition to points you had made earlier. Does that include what you said in Day 1 before you said you thought she was a poor townie?
4. Did you find something in the thread you linked in 707 (and the post you quoted in 718) that influenced your decision to unvote in 719? If so, what was it, and why had your opinion changed by 723? If not, what did you mean when you said you were "flustered by the meta"?

[SpyreX]

SpyreX: What's the relevance of your fifth point (that both SK and SB went after DJ when they were in trouble)? It's doubtful they coordinated that defensive mechanism in QuickTopic - is it just that DJ's an easy target for them to try to divert suspicion to?

I dont think (although I'll admit I go back and forth on it) that SK and DJ were bussing.

Thus, by nature, I find DJ to be town.

So, watching someone perform the same dog-and-pony show that scum just did is :bonk:.

But, yes, the basic idea is the "scumhunting" isn't genuine and its just pointing at what would be an obvious target.

[MordyS]

1. In post 662, you state that, "Starbuck did a good job of tempering her defense, making it impossible to tell whether she defended SK because she's scum or because she sincerely believed her defense." Was it scummy she came to his defense at all, or is that a null tell?

I think it's too WIFOM to call it either way. When read in the broader case it reads as scummy, but on its own I do believe she did an excellent job of distancing herself even while making a defense. So on its own, I think it's just a null tell.

2. At the end of Day 1 (post 244), you said that you thought Starbuck was poor town rather than scummy. However, you started Day 2 saying you thought she was scum and that "Coming into Day Two with a classic scum-tell only helps matters." Besides the scum tell, what changed your mind from late Day 1 to early Day 2?

I don't recall what the exact thing was. I've flipped back and forth on this and I'll speak more about it before.

3. Back to post 662, you also stated that the points you made about SK's subtle defense of her were in addition to points you had made earlier. Does that include what you said in Day 1 before you said you thought she was a poor townie?

In light of broader critiques, things I didn't feel were strong enough grow in importance. Basically stated, one thing may not be enough on its own, but when you accumulate enough evidence - even if each piece is fairly weak - it becomes stronger in accumulation. A fortiori, when you're marrying weak evidence to substantially stronger evidence (such the stuff I think I've uncovered today), it strengthens the case altogether. (I hope this makes sense. If it doesn't, let me know and I'll try to give some examples for how this works.)

4. Did you find something in the thread you linked in 707 (and the post you quoted in 718) that influenced your decision to unvote in 719? If so, what was it, and why had your opinion changed by 723? If not, what did you mean when you said you were "flustered by the meta"?

Yes. What influenced me is her meta that seemed to suggest she's just a bad (or scummy looking) player. It's hard for me to believe that she'd make a meta thread to try and trick us (that seems unethical w/r/t the game), so that might mean it was produced by frustration with this game. In addition, people in that thread noted that when she's town, she sometimes uses some of the arguments she's used in this thread. That's what I meant when I said I was flustered by the meta.

Now a question for you JereIC: Who do you think is scummy? Do you think Starbuck makes a good target for today? If not, why not? Also if not, who is a better scum target for today? Please answer these questions. Asking a bunch of what seems like simple questions can easily be a camouflage tactic to make it look like you were participating today without actually having to take a stake in the action.

[Starbuck]

@SpyreX

1. You could go through every single person's posts and find someone who they maybe have mentioned once or twice.

2. You realize that afatchic corrected me after that because he used whatever that Ani said last before he was modkilled. I NEVER SAID "He wasn't a survivor, he was a doctor". I threw out a theory, and I was wrong, and I admit it. Most mods when they modkill make that person (whether scum or not) a neutral survivor. You've been on this site long enough that you should know that. Way to misrepresent me yet again.

3. My Wiki can show the fact that I've never been replaced, and that I do more replacing into games than I start from the beginning. For my iso 17, 19, and 39, that was during the time that Tjoe was trying to use outside the game influences about my posting on me, and iso 101 is when Mordy was reading my general mafia discussion thread. He only read that thread so I asked him if he ever read my Wiki to see what I was talking about in that thread. If you read that thread, and then read my Wiki, you will see what I am talking about.

Again iso 42, 43, 47 are about Tjoe's case, he WAS going after me for stuff outside the game, and 99, 101 again, were because Mordy was using a thread that I posted outside the game and wasn't referring to any of my current roles.

This part alone is chock full of misrepresentation of me because OUTSIDE INFLUENCES were being used repeatedly.

4. Yes, I know how damning it looks, but seriously, if I was scum with him, do you think that I would defend him at L-1? Absolutely not. I'd be doing whatever I could to distance myself from him, which is exactly what his partner/s did.

5. So how does this make any sense?

[SpyreX]

1. You could go through every single person's posts and find someone who they maybe have mentioned once or twice.

I could? I could go through and find 60 posts without really mentioning someone and then them coming out to defend said player?

2. You realize that afatchic corrected me after that because he used whatever that Ani said last before he was modkilled. I NEVER SAID "He wasn't a survivor, he was a doctor". I threw out a theory, and I was wrong, and I admit it. Most mods when they modkill make that person (whether scum or not) a neutral survivor. You've been on this site long enough that you should know that. Way to misrepresent me yet again.

No, you never SAID that "He wasn't a survivor, he was a doctor". But, we're not playing semantics. The implication is very clear. Lets go look at the way back machine (paraphrase style):

SpyreX: Two kills after a

survivor

flip points at not an SK, but a vig.
Starbuck: I do not think ani was a survivor. (Quotes flavor, BOLDS doctor). Further, I don't like your assumption.

Now, at that point you

very, very clearly

were implying what you just said you never said (Posts 320 and 321 if someone wants to look at this debacle).

Now, lets get to the other half of this - the giant Appeal to Authority.

You are right - I've been around the block some on here. In 30+ games I can not think of ONE instance outside of this game apparently where a modkill didn't have the flip. If I get my druthers I'll go check your games and when that comes up nil just vote yourself.

So, yea, where in the name of anything is there even a pretending at a misrepresentation? Are you saying you never implied he was a doctor? Are you saying you somehow rectified that this was a theory before you used it to try and save SK?

3. My Wiki can show the fact that I've never been replaced, and that I do more replacing into games than I start from the beginning. For my iso 17, 19, and 39, that was during the time that Tjoe was trying to use outside the game influences about my posting on me, and iso 101 is when Mordy was reading my general mafia discussion thread. He only read that thread so I asked him if he ever read my Wiki to see what I was talking about in that thread. If you read that thread, and then read my Wiki, you will see what I am talking about.

Again iso 42, 43, 47 are about Tjoe's case, he WAS going after me for stuff outside the game, and 99, 101 again, were because Mordy was using a thread that I posted outside the game and wasn't referring to any of my current roles.

This part alone is chock full of misrepresentation of me because OUTSIDE INFLUENCES were being used repeatedly.

Meta is an outside influence.

You are double-handledly attempting to use meta as a defense from a case on avoiding the thread AND then condemning attacks that come from "outside influence".

Further, the point of that was simple. You accused me of strawmanning you by saying you've used meta when you haven't. You have. Be it in defense of "outside influences" or what have you this is what you've done.

Its a can of worms once opened that works both way. You are using it as a tool for survival, plain and simple. That does not fly.

4. Yes, I know how damning it looks, but seriously, if I was scum with him, do you think that I would defend him at L-1? Absolutely not. I'd be doing whatever I could to distance myself from him, which is exactly what his partner/s did.

Its not often I actually get to bring this out - but, hello WIFOM how are you today?

Further, if this is

exactly

what his partners did how does that equate to DJ's play if he is scum?

Double further, if you are now admitting that it "looks damning" why was your first response to say that

it is not a scumtell?

5. So how does this make any sense?

How does voting for DJ after what you did make sense as town looking for scum versus scum trying to survive?

How does, if town, not taking umbrage at the case but DJ make sense

after watching the flipped scum

do the exact same thing?

How does voting for DJ over other players make sense with what you've said in this post?

[Starbuck]

As I was reading back through, I found this little tidbit:

Yea this is scum stalling. A claim takes a minute. A fakeclaim takes a lifetime.

Eh. Not so sure about this. TMJ took some time to cough up and explain his claim. Also, I'll help you understand DJ.

He's hitched his apple wagon to your star. Whether or not this makes him scummy, I leave up to other players. It certainly rubs me the wrong way, though.

I'm wondering why now that Mordy doesn't really feel this way about DJ anymore.

[Starbuck]

I could? I could go through and find 60 posts without really mentioning someone and then them coming out to defend said player?

You could go through every person in this game's iso and find someone who they really didn't talk about much. Quit taking my words out of context.

No, you never SAID that "He wasn't a survivor, he was a doctor". But, we're not playing semantics. The implication is very clear.

How is the implication clear? It's not.



So why would the following not be an SK, but a vig? This is quite WIFOM-y.

I did mention here that I did acknowledge the fact of a third party. I said SK, but it could very well not be an SK.

Two kills after a survivor flip points at not an SK, but a vig.

but I was looking for the post in which you said it in, and I cannot find it. Can you link me please?

Now, at that point you very, very clearly were implying what you just said you never said (Posts 320 and 321 if someone wants to look at this debacle).

I said that I "DON'T THINK" that he was a neutral survivor. I NEVER once said that he couldn't be. Way to strawman.

So, yea, where in the name of anything is there even a pretending at a misrepresentation? Are you saying you never implied he was a doctor? Are you saying you somehow rectified that this was a theory before you used it to try and save SK?

I implied that he wasn't a neutral survivor. At first (because of the flavor in his kill post), I assumed that he was a doctor because that's what afatchic had written him up as saying. Afatchic later corrects us and says that he just used whatever was the last thing that Ani said. The last thing that Ani said was that he was a doctor, so I figured that since this whole game is PRs that Afatchic would not reveal Ani's role to us, and therefore paint them as a neutral survivor. I have seen this done once before in the Large Theme Death Note game that I played in. A modkill occurred and the mod didn't reveal the role of the person and just said they were a Neutral Survivor.

My posts about the SK lynch can be found in 577 and 583. I said "Animo said was that he was Vin, doctor (I know, I know, bad bad name claims but it's out there). How likely is it that Vin would be a doctor?". Who are you referring to in your question? You say "he" but you don't say whether you are referring to SK or to Animo.

I think you are mixing up what I said about SK and what I said about Animo.

You are double-handledly attempting to use meta as a defense from a case on avoiding the thread AND then condemning attacks that come from "outside influence".

Further, the point of that was simple. You accused me of strawmanning you by saying you've used meta when you haven't. You have. Be it in defense of "outside influences" or what have you this is what you've done.

Its a can of worms once opened that works both way. You are using it as a tool for survival, plain and simple. That does not fly.

How is the fact that I never have been replaced and that I replace into more games than I start part of my meta? It's fact, and can be easily found out. I would think meta is how you play and how you act in game, not how you end up in a game either by starting it from the beginning or replacing in.

Its not often I actually get to bring this out - but, hello WIFOM how are you today?

Further, if this is exactly what his partners did how does that equate to DJ's play if he is scum?

Double further, if you are now admitting that it "looks damning" why was your first response to say that it is not a scumtell?

How does it equate to everyone?

Let's look at all the bandwagons shall we?


Day 1 - Before the modkill, we have this:

animorpherv1-(6)-Faraday, RossWilliam, Doombunny9,

don_johnson, SpyerX, MordyS

Day 2 -

Shadow Knight-(5)-

SpyerX

, Boxman,

don_johnson, MordyS

, JereIC

Day 3 -

Starbuck-(4)-

MordyS, SpyerX, don_johnson

, Boxman

Look who's all on bandwagons every single day.

[Starbuck]

Sorry, I had to travel from home to work....now to finish...

Double further, if you are now admitting that it "looks damning" why was your first response to say that it is not a scumtell?

When did I say that it didn't look damning? Please refer to Post 597 because this is not a new revelation as you claim it to be.

How does voting for DJ after what you did make sense as town looking for scum versus scum trying to survive?

Because DJ has committed some very questionable behavior as I highlighted in my iso read of him, and I'm not the only one who has thought so, see Post 737.

How does, if town, not taking umbrage at the case but DJ make sense after watching the flipped scum do the exact same thing?

I really don't get the wording of this question. Can you rephrase please?

How does voting for DJ over other players make sense with what you've said in this post?

Because I do find DJ to be the scummiest, but as of late you are starting to creep up there as well.


Refer to my bandwagon list in 738, and then go back and read my iso analysis of DJ and see how he jumped onto each of those bandwagons.



The Animo bandwagon - Post 228

vote: animorphery

"oh no he didn't!"

yes. he did.

The Shadow Knight bandwagon - Refer to Post 672 for my full analysis of his play on Day 2. He voted 7 different times on Day 2. 3 times for Tjoe, 3 times for SK, and once for me.


The Starbuck bandwagon - Post 665

well then. it wouldn't be a bandwagon without don_johnson!

unvote, vote: starbuck

oh, i'm sorry. was that rude?

[Faraday]

What bothers me about Faraday/JereIC/Knights of Cydonia is that, even when they participate, they're really coasting during this game. It's not townie behavior. There's been almost no scum-hunting or discussion out of them. The whole thing has gotten me very paranoid, and I'm starting to feel like almost anyone could be a good lynch at this point. (I have very few super town reads, and a lot of neutral/wavering-scum reads.)

SUPERWAT. how have i been coasting/ I'm pretty sure I made cases against kodamma/starbuck on days 1 and 2. I've been pretty active and involved in a lot of discussion. You wound me, good sir.

Hey Starbuck why are you using bandwagoning on known scum as a negative thing. Also you just point it out, what conclusions do you draw from it.

I'll be quite happy to rosso carne Starbuck, but I think there's more to discuss atm.

[Faraday]

Look, someone posted on that meta,

I remember we lynched you as town in twilight mafia. I remember thinking the way you claimed was scummy in that game. And I think you were sort of angry we were going to lynch you and being like "I can't wait til you jerks see I flip town! I almost want to die now to screw you all." Those kind of comments only make people want to lynch you more, in my experience. Of course, you were right and it's only natural to feel picked on when you're being strung up as town, but still, comments like that speed your death.

I read this and, as someone who wants to win this game, I can't help but second-guess my instincts here. I'm sorry that you feel your meta is unfairly being used here, but until I'm told it's not allowed, I'm not going to ignore possible evidence that exculpates you.

I find her play different to Twilight ftr.

I'm just picking out stuff that I deem relevant btw. lawls, should be doing my confocal microscope report.

[Faraday]

i'm not really sold on boxman being town, btw. i think the only thing in his favour is a vote on sk is quite early. the other points are largely very weak, as listing someone as leaning scum that early is not really very unusual for scum to do.

I could easily see a boxman/starbuck/sk scum team too from some of the points Mordy brought up, i.e. boxman's seemingly chainsaw defending Starbuck.

Wanting to see what KOC has to say too, and probs a bit more for Jere.

Yo Starbuck who do you think is scum? You probs said so but tell me again.

[Starbuck]

I'm leaning on DJ and Jere, but on Jere, it's only because he's been so quiet and that I found rolandgarros very scummy before he replaced out.

[Starbuck]

Hey Starbuck why are you using bandwagoning on known scum as a negative thing. Also you just point it out, what conclusions do you draw from it.

The scum bandwagon wasn't for negative purposes but I didn't want to leave it out when I was pointing out the pattern that I saw.


And that's my bad, I had to leave for work, so I figured I'd post what I had already written and finish it when I got to work.

I think it's really odd that all three of them are on every bandwagon. The thing that bothers me most is DJ's entrance onto all of the bandwagons. I've had a town read on Mordy since around Day 2, but Spyre lately has my scumbells ringing.

[Starbuck]

Boxman has been way quieter than I'm used to him being. I almost keep forgetting that he's in this game.

[don_johnson]

For being inconsistent and contradicting yourself more than once

a) i wasn't going to bother with this, but i might as well. you took my quotes out of context. during the "neighbor" discussion i was defending your "role" as confirmed, not your alignment. at first i thought your alignment may be confirmed especially coupled with the fact that at that time you hadn't done anything i saw as scummy, but when the nature of the role itself was revealed i didn't once attempt to say you were confirmed as town. regardless, the quotes you pulled were in regards to role and not alignment, so yeah.

b) if contradicting oneself is a scumtell then you should be self voting, no?

The last thing that Ani said was that he was a doctor, so I figured that since this whole game is PRs that Afatchic would not reveal Ani's role to us, and therefore paint them as a neutral survivor. I have seen this done

once

before in the Large Theme Death Note game that I played in.

Most mods when they modkill make that person (whether scum or not) a neutral survivor. You've been on this site long enough that you should know that.

so you have one experience with this sort of thing and suddenly its "most mods"?

another nice contradiction is your stance on how scum act towards their scumbuddies wagon(which by your own logic should clear me) but continue to push suspicion on me. seriously, if you are town, you are doing quite terrible.

funny, now that you see a dj wagon won't take off you are starting to be more suspicious of others. thing with ani is this: he claimed doctor. which means he isn't bodyguard because a townie wouldn't lie. so he is either doc or scum. i don't think he was doc.

you never voted animorph. you FoS's his predecessor, but never got on the wagon. interesting.

anyways, sorry if i bother you that much. i'm here to have fun. if i've made you uncomfortable i apologize. enjoy your hanging.

[Starbuck]

Is that absolutely necessary? Do you have no tact at all?

[MordyS]

I'm wondering why now that Mordy doesn't really feel this way about DJ anymore.

Are you kidding, Starbuck? For future reference, if you want to know why people find you scummy, look back at comments like this. I've clearly said in the last couple pages that I find DJ scummy, but that I don't find him scummy enough to deal with at the moment. You completely mischaracterize people's positions (not just mine), which gives the impression of scum flailing.

[Starbuck]

I'm wondering why now that Mordy doesn't really feel this way about DJ anymore.

Are you kidding, Starbuck? For future reference, if you want to know why people find you scummy, look back at comments like this. I've clearly said in the last couple pages that I find DJ scummy, but that I don't find him scummy enough to deal with at the moment. You completely mischaracterize people's positions (not just mine), which gives the impression of scum flailing.

Why is he not scummy enough to deal with at the moment? I know you've been mentioning it, but you never care to elaborate, which is why I posted that.