Perfectionist Mafia - Resultas

[almightybob]

In response to my emoticon thing. Are you fudging serious!?!?!? haha. They're emoticons. You do or do not mind them MME? Which one? Surely you dont expect me to go back and trawl through my town games where i have used them too? *facepalm*

You don't need to, MME already did that for you.

I think he's implying that over-use of emoticons has a meta for you as being a sort of subconscious nervous tick when you're scum. I don't know how many games he went through to get those stats, and I'm well aware that correlation does not imply causation, but it's interesting nonetheless.
I'm not sure how seriously he meant it, but sometimes people do things like that without even realising they're doing it. Perhaps scum-you subconsciously uses more emoticons to try to appear more friendly, that kind of thing.

I'm not really inclined to take it as a serious scumtell/piece of evidence, but it'll be interesting to see if it really did predict how you flip.

[My Milked Eek]

In response to my emoticon thing. Are you fudging serious!?!?!? haha. They're emoticons. You do or do not mind them MME? Which one? Surely you dont expect me to go back and trawl through my town games where i have used them too? *facepalm*

You don't need to, MME already did that for you.

I think he's implying that over-use of emoticons has a meta for you as being a sort of subconscious nervous tick when you're scum. I don't know how many games he went through to get those stats, and I'm well aware that correlation does not imply causation, but it's interesting nonetheless.
I'm not sure how seriously he meant it, but sometimes people do things like that without even realising they're doing it. Perhaps scum-you subconsciously uses more emoticons to try to appear more friendly, that kind of thing.

I'm not really inclined to take it as a serious scumtell/piece of evidence, but it'll be interesting to see if it really did predict how you flip.

Exactly my sentiment. I'm aware that correlation doesn't cause causation, but it is interesting nonetheless. And for the record, I checked every game of hers that finished or where she died and thus flipped.

Catching up today

[Starbuck]

Unvote

, in case I'm currently voting anyone.

The first part of my analysis is almost done.

[Starbuck]

Starting on Page 1

I would like to add that while Empire of the Sun may be a band. The name "Empire of the Sun" is more famously known from the amazing movie made by Steven Spielberg in the 1980s.

Ok, serious WTF on the bandwagon right out the gate. You guys had BC at L-3 before the bottom of the first page.

On my predecessor, Nook

Finally shows up at Post 69. He responds to Snow White's reasoning for voting Saber, and I think it's very well thought out. Random votes Sanjay, and mentions that the possible roles are interesting.

He does stay a bit too quiet for my liking.

On BloodCovenent

Why would you not read the rules and self-vote when it blatantly says not to? You have the first post in the entire game.

Anyone notice how quiet BC got?

On almightybob

I feel sheepish. Apologies to Cookie for the PM-reading accusation. My bad.

What are you talking about here? I don't see anything about PM reading in any of the posts prior to this.

On Snow White

Secondly. Why call for a bandwagon and then FoS myself, Mufasa and Lowell for obliging you.

You can garner a lot of info by who votes when and why.


Votes Lowell in Post 25 for nothing other than "I have my reasons".

@DeathNote. Why risk BC like this, for all you know he could have a power role. Is it worth such a risk?

Says someone who was also voting for him and didn't seem to have a problem with voting him.


Nice OMGUS on Saber in Post 55. Also on Post 55:

@ Saber. How are competing bandwagons useful for town? We should examine everyone as equally as possible instead of concentrating on two random individuals to avoid what could be an inevitable mislynch.

So now that focus is on you, everyone should be looking at everyone else equally? That's not really how mafia is played.

I really don't care for Post 75.

1. How are we supposed to look at everyone equally? It seems to me like you are trying to deflect attention off yourself.

2. Saberwolf already answered your questions before you ever asked them in 59. It seems you have given him a good reason to keep his vote on you based on your reactions.

My Milked Eek - Where is my Appeal to Emotion? Just for the record i do it quite a bit as scum and town but i fail to see where i used it.

I don't think that using AtE at all helps your game whether you admit to using it or not.


I have found a couple appeals to emotion from her

Appeals to Emotion: Posts 19, 25

And quite a bit of fluff too.

Fluff: 33, 36, 38, 41, 47, 48, 51.

It's just a lot of spam, like she is definitely trying hard to be seen as active and participating.


On Post 83, how did Sanjay answer Lowell's question? Lowell had more than one question and I'm glad to see at the time that this was occuring that someone did take the initiative to show how contradictory of a question that "How do you know that there are many scum?" is, especially because Lowell didn't say that there were "MANY" scum. He said "One scum down,

however many

to go." You then go on to praise Wicked for the question, and then insinuate that it could be a slip on Lowell's part. Wow. Way to not read Lowell's 2 posts in iso and see what he really said.



On Post 121...

1. You're right showing emotion is not prohibited, and no one except one person was talking about your smilies. It's when you show emotion and scummy reactions to people voting for you and using AtE because you say it's part of your meta.

2. Your question to DeathNote was "Why risk BC like this". I can see why you would ask this because at this point BC was at L-3 (for those of you that don't believe me go back and read, you guys almost had a lynch on the first page).

3. If I was here at the beginning of the game, I probably would have done the same and voted him when I saw that he asked.

4. So you voted for Lowell because of what happened in another game, and this is supposed to do what for this game?

5. You completely contradicted yourself here. First you say you voted him because he was infuriating (nice ad hom btw) and the second you said you voted for pressure? Make up your mind. On top of it all, your vote is OMGUS, and you are being quite scumtastic while you are trying to prove that wrong.


I also think that you refer to joking and humor way too much. You can easily say that everything that you say is a joke, but that just makes you look more scummy.

My vote is staying because im infuriated.
Arrogance is scummy. I feel as though im being hunted and i dont expect that this early in the game from someone supposed to be town.

Also the way he placed his vote on me was scummy imho. Ill elaborate soon.

Ad hom. Ad hom. Ad hom. You need to attack the argument not the person.

And more appeals to emotion!

On DeathNote

FOS: DeathNote

for the following post....

Vote: BloodCovenant

I wonder if anyone would be brave enough to hammer when the time comes...

I don't like this at all. Seriously? The dude was almost lynched within the first two pages.

On Mufasa

Why the fos when you self voted that gives me the warrant to auto vote you.

Why does it give you the warrant to auto vote? Self voting can garner information in the right setting.


You say this:

you vote me in every game saberwolf

And then were debunked here

mufasa this is our second game together. Our first game we lynched you for suspicious hammering, and even then I was your only supporter as I was sure you were town, but you not contributing didn't allow us the luxury of keeping you around.

Were you trying to cast some early suspicion on saber?

On Dramonic

Random votes? (I'm questioning this because should he have seen that you guys skipped RVS?) SW in Post 20. Although, it seemed to me like he was voting her based on her AtE in the previous post, but he says in Post 31 that he's voting her because she's her and that he doesn't like her avi.

He kind of asked you to answer your question, not someone else's. Noted, however.

So just because Wicked asked a question of someone else, Sanjay can't voice his opinion? Doing this analysis, I'm in agreement with Sanjay. This is a rather scummy comment imho.

And for the record, he said:

One scum down,

however many

to go.

And then you go and vote Sanjay because quite a few of you have misunderstood what was originally said by Lowell.

On Sanjay

I'm going to leave my vote where it is right now because I don't see how I'll get another chance to put it there.

Aren't you just filled with regret that your vote can never go back to you?

What if you find out you are mafia later?!!

I lol'd at this.

On Wickedestjr

This question is based at Lowell

How do you know that there are many scum?

Did you not read what Lowell said? Or did you only take the part that you could easily misrepresent him about? Sanjay called you out on it when it happened, now I'm calling you out on it. Lowell said "One scum down,

however many

to go." He has only two posts in his iso and you can easily go back and see this. So you DID misrepresent him.

Now that I've read farther, I see that you did misread it, and I can see how you would do so.

You pretty much claimed to be scum.

Serious strawman here. How and when did he claim to be scum? Last I knew, claiming to be scum in any role (town, mafia, independent, etc) is against the rules here at MS.

Mufasa - Does it bother you that saberwolf votes you in every game he and you play together?

I don't think this question is a good one because Saber specifically stated that they have only played one game together.


So explain to me how Saber's vote on Snow White was a random vote because I honestly don't see it. She had been posting nothing but fluff and adding barely anything to the game at this point. He did state a reason of "competing bandwagons are useful for town IMO", which is not random. I definitely think you are misrepresenting him. I'm also concerned with the fact that you keep trying to push for a response from Saber about your vote when really you voted for him based on some pretty horrible reasons. You keep stating over and over again that he placed a second random vote when he didn't.

On Saberwolf

So far, I'm getting a town read on Saber.

I definitely agree with saber about Mufasa in his Post 100. I have played with Mufasa before and I have seen the same thing.



SolemnJ and Santos' silence is bothering.


Leaving off at the bottom of Page 5.

[Starbuck]

Starting on Page 1

I would like to add that while Empire of the Sun may be a band. The name "Empire of the Sun" is more famously known from the amazing movie made by Steven Spielberg in the 1980s.

Ok, serious WTF on the bandwagon right out the gate. You guys had BC at L-3 before the bottom of the first page.

On my predecessor, Nook

Finally shows up at Post 69. He responds to Snow White's reasoning for voting Saber, and I think it's very well thought out. Random votes Sanjay, and mentions that the possible roles are interesting.

He does stay a bit too quiet for my liking.

On BloodCovenent

Why would you not read the rules and self-vote when it blatantly says not to? You have the first post in the entire game.

Anyone notice how quiet BC got?

On almightybob

I feel sheepish. Apologies to Cookie for the PM-reading accusation. My bad.

What are you talking about here? I don't see anything about PM reading in any of the posts prior to this.

On Snow White

Secondly. Why call for a bandwagon and then FoS myself, Mufasa and Lowell for obliging you.

You can garner a lot of info by who votes when and why.


Votes Lowell in Post 25 for nothing other than "I have my reasons".

@DeathNote. Why risk BC like this, for all you know he could have a power role. Is it worth such a risk?

Says someone who was also voting for him and didn't seem to have a problem with voting him.


Nice OMGUS on Saber in Post 55. Also on Post 55:

@ Saber. How are competing bandwagons useful for town? We should examine everyone as equally as possible instead of concentrating on two random individuals to avoid what could be an inevitable mislynch.

So now that focus is on you, everyone should be looking at everyone else equally? That's not really how mafia is played.

I really don't care for Post 75.

1. How are we supposed to look at everyone equally? It seems to me like you are trying to deflect attention off yourself.

2. Saberwolf already answered your questions before you ever asked them in 59. It seems you have given him a good reason to keep his vote on you based on your reactions.

My Milked Eek - Where is my Appeal to Emotion? Just for the record i do it quite a bit as scum and town but i fail to see where i used it.

I don't think that using AtE at all helps your game whether you admit to using it or not.


I have found a couple appeals to emotion from her

Appeals to Emotion: Posts 19, 25

And quite a bit of fluff too.

Fluff: 33, 36, 38, 41, 47, 48, 51.

It's just a lot of spam, like she is definitely trying hard to be seen as active and participating.


On Post 83, how did Sanjay answer Lowell's question? Lowell had more than one question and I'm glad to see at the time that this was occuring that someone did take the initiative to show how contradictory of a question that "How do you know that there are many scum?" is, especially because Lowell didn't say that there were "MANY" scum. He said "One scum down,

however many

to go." You then go on to praise Wicked for the question, and then insinuate that it could be a slip on Lowell's part. Wow. Way to not read Lowell's 2 posts in iso and see what he really said.



On Post 121...

1. You're right showing emotion is not prohibited, and no one except one person was talking about your smilies. It's when you show emotion and scummy reactions to people voting for you and using AtE because you say it's part of your meta.

2. Your question to DeathNote was "Why risk BC like this". I can see why you would ask this because at this point BC was at L-3 (for those of you that don't believe me go back and read, you guys almost had a lynch on the first page).

3. If I was here at the beginning of the game, I probably would have done the same and voted him when I saw that he asked.

4. So you voted for Lowell because of what happened in another game, and this is supposed to do what for this game?

5. You completely contradicted yourself here. First you say you voted him because he was infuriating (nice ad hom btw) and the second you said you voted for pressure? Make up your mind. On top of it all, your vote is OMGUS, and you are being quite scumtastic while you are trying to prove that wrong.


I also think that you refer to joking and humor way too much. You can easily say that everything that you say is a joke, but that just makes you look more scummy.

My vote is staying because im infuriated.
Arrogance is scummy. I feel as though im being hunted and i dont expect that this early in the game from someone supposed to be town.

Also the way he placed his vote on me was scummy imho. Ill elaborate soon.

Ad hom. Ad hom. Ad hom. You need to attack the argument not the person.

And more appeals to emotion!

On DeathNote

FOS: DeathNote

for the following post....

Vote: BloodCovenant

I wonder if anyone would be brave enough to hammer when the time comes...

I don't like this at all. Seriously? The dude was almost lynched within the first two pages.

On Mufasa

Why the fos when you self voted that gives me the warrant to auto vote you.

Why does it give you the warrant to auto vote? Self voting can garner information in the right setting.


You say this:

you vote me in every game saberwolf

And then were debunked here

mufasa this is our second game together. Our first game we lynched you for suspicious hammering, and even then I was your only supporter as I was sure you were town, but you not contributing didn't allow us the luxury of keeping you around.

Were you trying to cast some early suspicion on saber?

On Dramonic

Random votes? (I'm questioning this because should he have seen that you guys skipped RVS?) SW in Post 20. Although, it seemed to me like he was voting her based on her AtE in the previous post, but he says in Post 31 that he's voting her because she's her and that he doesn't like her avi.

He kind of asked you to answer your question, not someone else's. Noted, however.

So just because Wicked asked a question of someone else, Sanjay can't voice his opinion? Doing this analysis, I'm in agreement with Sanjay. This is a rather scummy comment imho.

And for the record, he said:

One scum down,

however many

to go.

And then you go and vote Sanjay because quite a few of you have misunderstood what was originally said by Lowell.

On Sanjay

I'm going to leave my vote where it is right now because I don't see how I'll get another chance to put it there.

Aren't you just filled with regret that your vote can never go back to you?

What if you find out you are mafia later?!!

I lol'd at this.

On Wickedestjr

This question is based at Lowell

How do you know that there are many scum?

Did you not read what Lowell said? Or did you only take the part that you could easily misrepresent him about? Sanjay called you out on it when it happened, now I'm calling you out on it. Lowell said "One scum down,

however many

to go." He has only two posts in his iso and you can easily go back and see this. So you DID misrepresent him.

Now that I've read farther, I see that you did misread it, and I can see how you would do so.

You pretty much claimed to be scum.

Serious strawman here. How and when did he claim to be scum? Last I knew, claiming to be scum in any role (town, mafia, independent, etc) is against the rules here at MS.

Mufasa - Does it bother you that saberwolf votes you in every game he and you play together?

I don't think this question is a good one because Saber specifically stated that they have only played one game together.


So explain to me how Saber's vote on Snow White was a random vote because I honestly don't see it. She had been posting nothing but fluff and adding barely anything to the game at this point. He did state a reason of "competing bandwagons are useful for town IMO", which is not random. I definitely think you are misrepresenting him. I'm also concerned with the fact that you keep trying to push for a response from Saber about your vote when really you voted for him based on some pretty horrible reasons. You keep stating over and over again that he placed a second random vote when he didn't.

On Saberwolf

So far, I'm getting a town read on Saber.

I definitely agree with saber about Mufasa in his Post 100. I have played with Mufasa before and I have seen the same thing.



SolemnJ and Santos' silence is bothering.


Leaving off at the bottom of Page 5.

[Starbuck]

Mod - Can you delete my double post?

My computer screwed up.



Also, I realized that you can't Unvote in this game, lol. Currently the person I find most scummy is Snow White.

Vote: Snow White

[Starbuck]

One thing that does bother me so far (and I haven't finished my analysis yet) is that it seems like Wicked and Snow White are trying their best to tiptoe around each other. It seems like a very fine line between distancing and buddying.

[BloodCovenent]

On BloodCovenent

Why would you not read the rules and self-vote when it blatantly says not to? You have the first post in the entire game.

Anyone notice how quiet BC got?

I'm sorry, this just feels hypocritical.

I've been more quiet because i'm in three large games, and two normal games. I'm still learning my limits.

@BC: I was pretty clear that the IIoA comment was based on an incredibly superficial scan. I read a few random lines, and saw things like this:

BC unvotes himself and votes for me for "starting" the bandwagon.
[...]
Snow White and Dramonic talk EoS
MME and Cookie ask about EoS.
Snow White says we need to get off the subject of the avatar.
Saber jokes "Avatar avoidance = Scum"
[...]
MrSwauve joins.
[...]
The general consensus by page 4 is that Snow White has been misunderstood.
[...]
Builds a case on me post 116.

I state i was infuriated, which, i was cause i felt my words were being twisted.

Almighty Bob votes for Snow White.

Etc etc.

I have re-read the post thoroughly, and clearly my first impression was indeed harsh. It's not IIoA, it's sort of a timeline with running commentary.

Your vote for me, if that's all it's based on, is Weak with a capital W.

Granted. Calling out something as IIoA, when it really isn't, is scummy. Yes i noted that you decided that based on a skim read, however you shouldn't have noted anything until you actually took the time to read it, instead of just skimming. when you read with haste, and make not of things that may not be accurate, scum tend to jump on those things.

Vote: SolemnJ

-Lurker, and anti-town posting when he actually posted.

Vote: AlmightyBob

2: I don't find it as IIoA.

Before you found him to be townie. Now you have switched based on just that?

*Scum read on BC strengthens slightly.*

That never phased you as a pressure vote, since I disagree that Snow's post is IIoA, where as you think that it is?

[Starbuck]

On BloodCovenent

Why would you not read the rules and self-vote when it blatantly says not to? You have the first post in the entire game.

Anyone notice how quiet BC got?

I'm sorry, this just feels hypocritical.

I've been more quiet because i'm in three large games, and two normal games. I'm still learning my limits.

So you have an excuse for your lurking....hmmm....

And how is it hypocritical? I think you used the wrong word there.

[BloodCovenent]

So you have an excuse for your lurking....hmmm....

And what does that mean? Yea, I do, isn't it better than those kids that lurk, don't give reasons and such. Who is it, Lowell and SolemnJ? Their last posts were 11, and 14 days ago respectively. They both have less than 4 posts too. I would like to think that I have been more active then both of them.

And how is it hypocritical? I think you used the wrong word there.

You called me out for not reading the rules regarding self voting, where you tried to unvote just a post down.

[almightybob]

Just a quick note:

Why would you not read the rules and self-vote when it blatantly says not to?

Might I point out that your unvote from the post before is also against the rules.

4. Unvoting is not necessary, in fact, it is pointless, if you do unvote you MUST place a vote on someone else. If you do not, your unvote is invalid

I just found this funny and ironic.


Anyway, back to reading the rest.

[BloodCovenent]

thats what we're talking about dude.

[Starbuck]

I realized it after the fact, and fixed it, but my point on your not reading the rules is the fact that you had THE FIRST POST in the game and failed to see that.

[almightybob]

Ah, I see you realised you couldn't unvote. Never mind then.

What are you talking about here? I don't see anything about PM reading in any of the posts prior to this.

This was because, at the start of the game, I accidentally went back to the signup thread and started posting in there instead of coming to the actual game thread. You can see the little back-and-forth between myself and Cookie on page 3 here.

[almightybob]

Guys, I just realised something. From the open postings of the role PMs, we can tell that

there are 3 scum in this game

.

Look at the first line of each scum role PM. It names the recipient's role (1 scum), their godfather (2 scum) and their one other scumbuddy with role (3 scum). Plus there's a potential traitor, but on D1 they're obviously still Town.

Incidentally, there's nothing about being the traitor in any of the Town power roles.

@Mod: Does this mean the traitor (if there is one) doesn't know they are a traitor?

Anyways, that puts the whole "however many" debate to rest.

There's 3 scum in this game.

[almightybob]

EBWOP: I think this also means that there is definitely a godfather, since every scum role PM contains it.

[BloodCovenent]

I realized it after the fact, and fixed it, but my point on your not reading the rules is the fact that you had THE FIRST POST in the game and failed to see that.

You think that because i was the first post that I must have read the rules? No, I didn't read them in great detail, so much that I missed that one aspect of not being able to vote for myself. How often, when starting a game do you start by reading all of the rules? before anything else? Did you read the rules before you posted your first post? Even after you noted me for not looking at the rules?

[xRECKONERx]

@Starbuck: Nothing about me?

@almighty: But there were a bunch of role PMs posted... I don't understand your logic in picking out three at random? Or am I just not following?

@BloodCovenent: Even if you DIDN'T read the rules...

why

vote for yourself? I also dislike how he completely glazed over responding to what I had said to him (and Wicked, to a lesser extent) and instead decided to continue arguing semantics with Starbuck regarding the rules of the game.

Vote: BloodCovenent

[BloodCovenent]

Reck, is this what you are referring to? About me missing what your questions/statements to me are? Because I don't exactly know what you want me to say, regarding that post. That seems like it's more of a statement, and not so much a question.

As for self voting, i've done it before, I thought I went over this with Zazie already, well, at least who i've learned it from. Mainly because I tend to think that the RVS stage drags out, and it could have potentially gone for several pages. I've seen a mini normal game last for 5 pages because no one was serious. However, in this game, I think my attempt at a self vote was a little premature, anyways.

Also, if you feel that I have missed questions, please point them out to me, and I will be more than happy to answer them.

[xRECKONERx]

Do you think you are playing in line with your meta? Can you point to other times when you've acted out of character in the RVS to push the game along?

[almightybob]

@almighty: But there were a bunch of role PMs posted... I don't understand your logic in picking out three at random? Or am I just not following?

I think you're not following.

Imagine, for the sake of this illustration, that I am the scum doctor. I get my role PM, and it says to me "You are the mafia Doctor with ZZZ (your godfather), YYY (your <insert>) and there may or may not be a traitor." Whichever role PM I imagine myself getting as scum, I'm always given two partners - one Godfather (unless I'm him) and one other random scum role.

From what I gather, the scum makeup is as follows:
1 Godfather
2 scum randomly chosen from the other scum roles, i.e. any two from roleblocker/doctor/framer/redirector.
possibly 1 traitor

Also

@Mod: you can ignore my previous question.

I realised that the Mafia Traitor knows he is the traitor, and knows who all the scum are. I take it he's scum-aligned from the beginning then since his PM is in the scum category, but just can't communicate with his teammates unless he gets recruited.

[xRECKONERx]

Whoa! Good find! I get you now.

So we know that there are three, but we just don't know if there is a traitor. Cool.

[BloodCovenent]

Do you think you are playing in line with your meta? Can you point to other times when you've acted out of character in the RVS to push the game along?

Only in ongoing games, so no. It's a meta that i'm actually working on building up.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the top of page 6

On my predecessor, Nook

Quite a hypocritical post from Nook in Post 143.

On SolemnJ

Even though Nook was hypocritical in 143, he has a point and the fact that you responded to it so quickly proves to me that you are active lurking.

On Sanjay

BC hasn't posted very much to really analyzed, but I think there is more to being on his wagon than simple dislike of self-voters (in my experience self-voting is rather townish).

I used to be of the mindset that self-voting was scummy, but now I've seen it used in so many predicaments that it's now a null tell for me. That being said, I am in agreement with you that there is more to just self-voting for those on his wagon.

On Saberwolf

I am definitely impressed with your play thus far, and I'm still reading townie on you.

Post 126 hit the nail on the head.

On My Milked Eek

So everyone who lies back and watches the game is town?
"supposed to be town"?

Great point towards Snow White here.

On MrSuave

@SW: how does arrogance translate into being scummy? O_o
and how does being mad translate into a valid reason to vote someone?
correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a form of OMGUS?

Somebody gets it.

On Santos

I love how he casually enters the game six pages in at Post 130, and then he votes Lowell who hasn't been around since the start of the game. Seriously dude, you haven't been around either, why don't you try scumhunting?

On BloodCovenent

My question to you still stands. You had the first post in the game and you seemingly neglected to read the rules. I don't find your vote on yourself to be scummy, but I do find the fact that you didn't read the rules of the game to be scummy. You then state that you would have voted "no lynch" if you had actually read the rules. You talk about how you policy vote at the beginning of each game, either yourself or Kise. Why is that?

If you're going to give a pressure vote, then actually put some pressure on the player. When you vote someone, and label it a "pressure" vote almost immediately after the action, it denotes the purpose. A better pressure vote would have been waiting at least a few hours.

I believe his pressure started working before that, as Snow White was already quite defensive prior to him even voting her.

On Wickedestjr

For some reason I thought saber's vote for Snow White was random.

It took you this long to realize this?

After Wicked's Post 156, Post 159, I don't think I'm that far off with the distancing/buddying theory. He quickly goes from semi-defending her to voting her.

Also, good job jumping on dramonic for complaining about pointless discussion, but not doing anything to be rid of it.

On almightybob

Yes, you can. But SW isn't agreeing with any case, she's admitted that she's voting for saber because she

finds him annoying. It feels more like she added the "pressure for an unjust vote" part to make it seem OK, but to be honest, pressure for an unjust vote just boils down to OMGUS.

Now as I've said, I don't think OMGUS is a scumtell, but I don't like votes for weak weak reasons like "I'm irritated".

QFT.

On Snow White

It sounds like you don't have a dictionary in your house, Ms. Queen of teh Ad hom.

Could you explain your reasoning for considering arrogance a scumtell?

Simply it means in my mind anyway, one is concentrating hard on one individual without examining the rest. I find it anti town not to explore other players ideas and concentrating on one, sole individual to get them lynched. I cant call it pro town.

You just defined tunneling, not arrogance.

I really didn't see Saber twist your words because I got the same meaning from them.

You asked MME why you are worthy of pressure, he probably already answered this but I will do so too. You have been acting very scummy. Your vote is textbook OMGUS and your reasons contradict themselves. You are basing everything more on emotion then fact, then try to deflect attention off yourself, but rather fail at doing so.

So why don't you see town being aggressive? Why couldn't town be aggressive? If a townie feels that they have found a scum, should they sit back and twiddle their thumbs or be in there with a case?

Are you saying you assumed Saber to be town? Why is that?

Well im not psychic with any preconcieved visions of who may or may not be scum. Frankly when i go into a game everyone starts with a scum level of zero. It builds from there depending on peoples interactions, thoughts and their votes. Do you not think?

First off, get off your high horse with your insults and put downs. It's getting old. Second, you never answered the question, you beat around the bush, which is definitely a scumtell.

I gave it how i meant it to be interpretted it. Like most people i assumed would interpret it, you were the one to pick it out and if you plan to argue it as a point against me i will defend myself against it. But people may read it as they may.

Now that he wasn't the only one who interpreted it that way, what do you have say now?

@Santos. I voted Lowell randomly because of our last game together he lurked absymally as scum. Id vote him but my vote is now on saberwolf.

You need to learn how to separate your games. I know Lowell only has two posts in this entire game, but seriously, you are already looking very scumtastic and then you post that you're reasoning for voting Lowell was because of a previous game? Grow up, and let go of grudges already.

In regard to my annoyance on Saber. Im willing to leave it behind until i can distinguish is it his attitude or his actions that have me ... unsettled. My vote rests with him atm because frankly id like to do a reread of the topic to date anger subsided

So you finally admit your wrongdoings because you are being led by your emotions, but you still refuse to unvote him.

I love how once people start asking you questions and using words like "pressure" that's when you finally state, "Oh yeah, I voted him for pressure."

In terms of OMGUS. You believe it never should be done? Its neither helpful to town or scum? Then why not use it?

How does that make any sense?

I ave said i have not liked sabers actions toward myself, i do not expect such actions from town so early. This is not to say that i am certain saber is scum. Im not. But that i have not to date liked his actions. In regard to where my vote is, where do you suggest me putting it? Unvoting means i vote myself. I for one am not enticed to do such a thing.

What about his actions? Care to cite specific posts or are you going to continue this baseless argument especially when originally your reasons (after fed to you) were because you were mad and because you were putting "pressure" on him. When really your whole vote was OMGUS.

My other issue is that you react to every single vote on you. Honestly one or two votes aren't going to make a big difference especially if they have horrible cases or horrible reasonings.

Look more AtE:

I dont believe im being all whiny and bitchy. But if i am then if someone would like to point this out i will happily replace out.

On Mufasa

I'd like to see more comprehensive posts from you.

On EtherealCookie

It doesn't seem like he read all the way up to where his post is in Post 181. His defense of Snow White seems very irrational. He says he doesn't understand her bandwagon, and that everyone is trying to justify it with silly excuses and that it seems like we're still in RVS. He also jumps all over saberwolf on one of his points, without citing any other points of his case.

His 189 just flabbergasts me. He admits to not seeing the rest of the points of the cases on Snow, as well as he only sees her as being defensive, not overdefensive.

FOS: EtherealCookie

Caught up to the bottom of page 10

[EtherealCookie]

I admit to not seeing the rest of the points? No, I said "What other points," because I didn't think they were worthy of being adressed, given they were poor reasons.