Mini 859 - Cleansing of Falls Church - Over


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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:15 am

Post by DeathRowKitty »

dj wrote: DRK 93 and 94 are just terrible. no reason to defend bigbear, but it happens and its the "too scummy to be scum" fallacy.

a quick bandwagon does not leave an obvious target for a day 2 lynch. narrows choices down, but nothing would necessarily be obvious there.
Interesting how you stuck 94 in there with no explanation :wink:

As for post 93, I iso'd BB in his other game (he was scum) before making that post and he played considerably better than he was in this game. Of course that doesn't mean he isn't scum, but to me, that pretty clearly means his actions weren't because he was scum playing badly. It's more of a "too scummy to be a reliable scum tell for a decent player" kind of thing.

The reason I think the Day 2 lynch would have been obvious isn't just the fact that there would have had to be a quick bandwagon; it was the fact that there would have had to be a quick bandwagon
based on random reasons
.

I seem to recall a few instances of players defending other players early in the game (shrine comes to mind but I'm too lazy to dig up posts right now). Any particular reason you singled out my post?
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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:18 am

Post by Sanjay »

Kreriov: do we have a deadline to worry about?[/url]
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:25 am

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Also, CA has disappeared (from the site, not just this game).
Mod, if you haven't already, please prod CA
.
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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:36 am

Post by Sanjay »

Whoops, I fail at tags.

Kreriov: do we have a deadline to worry about?
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:37 am

Post by don_johnson »

DeathRowKitty wrote:]Interesting how you stuck 94 in there with no explanation :wink:
dj wrote:a quick bandwagon does not leave an obvious target for a day 2 lynch. narrows choices down, but nothing would necessarily be obvious there.
so yeah.

i'm on page 4. relax.
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:01 am

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Sorry, I somehow thought that quote referred to post 93 too :oops:
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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:33 pm

Post by BigBear »

ZazieR wrote:
What I'm asking is why you didn't enter the discussion about your self-vote.
You voted yourself --> FC voted you for that --> Players discussed FC's vote --> Bear does other stuff --> Bear finally states that he agrees with a post from DRK about FC.
Other than that post from DRK, you don't mention the discussion that your self-vote caused at all. And you never push the thing you did comment on. I'm interested in hearing why.
The only thing that I can think of, was either me being lazy, or just overlooking it. Since only one(or two) person(s) really commented on it. the best explanation is that I probably overlooked it.
ZazieR wrote:
Well, I actually asked how your vote against Shrine should have proved your not scum together. So it's strange that you now state that it would have been a reinforcing move for the assumption from Looker about you and Shrine.
But after reading this, I need to look at something.
(And yeah, it's not a chainsaw defense. That's when you're attacking/voting a player who's attacking/voting your buddy.)
I think they just thought it was a CSD because I was trying to distract from Shrines lynch. (what did you need to look at?) I don't remember if I was actually trying to prove that we weren't scum together, because no matter what I do, someone could twist my actions into saying that we are a scum pair, that it was bussing or something. So either way, i probably should have been burned at the steak for that.

ZazieR wrote:
Bear wrote:I know you must be tired of this, but no, I didn't really see him as scum, mostly just putting pressure on him.
What did you wish to gain from this pressure on EC?
Would you believe, to see how he would react?
ZazieR wrote:
As far as I know, they don't have 60+ player games. The most I know of is 56. I meant 60+ pages. (Also, it had Mastin in that game with Mastin-posts)
And I don't know when he gets back.
oh balls thats still big. I kinda like replacing into games, but i also enjoy starting games.

Two questions for you zaz...

1. who do you think is scum, aside from Brother nature
2. Do you think that the random voting stage was a normal length for a mini normal?
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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:09 pm

Post by Looker »

unvote

ZazieR's [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1924621#1924621]Post 534[/url] wrote:
Looker wrote:Just posting to show my face and stuff. @ Zaz, I forgot, but I'll get back in all these games around the site. Just kinda busy right now...
At what is that part regarding me aimed?
Once again, I forgot. :(
Sanjay's [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1925281#1925281]Post 543[/url] wrote:
Looker wrote:So does that mean the people voting brother can...um...transfer over to Confid...?
What's the deal with this post, Looker?
Don't know, cuz now I'm interested in
vote: Don_Johnson
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:54 am

Post by Kreriov »

Vote Count

BigBear (1) - EtherealCookie
don_johnson (4) - ZazieR Shrinehme Peabody Looker
ConfidAnon (3) - Sanjay DeathRowKitty BigBear
DeathRowKitty (1) - ConfidAnon
EtherealCookie (2) - nook KnightOfCydonia

Not voting: don_johnson

With 12 alive is takes 7 to lynch.

Looking for replacements for nook and Peabody


Please ask friends if they would like to replace in.

There is no deadline at this time. I would like to find more replacements and get responses to prods before imposing one.
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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:47 am

Post by don_johnson »

page 5:

looker is scumhunting. i guess there's a first for evrything. :)

103 is horrible, trerible, no good wifomic meta defense that essentially creates a circular pattern of knowledge confirmation. "bear is competent scum, so he wouldn't no lynch as scum, so he must be town, but if i think he's town and he's really scum then he's most certainly competent scum."

106 echoes my thoughts.

107 is way off. shrine distances from bear rather pedantically(is that a word?) points out obvious possible town motivations for bear's play. post reads more as fluff than anything.

108 *facepalm* looker: confid ran the wifom. not fc. not sure why you question one and not the other, especially when you question the one who implies bear might be scum after stating you want to vote for bear. good ol' looker! conclusion: coincidence? whatever.

109 leans more and more scum on shrine.

116 breath of fresh logic. i agree with the vote, but it is inexplained.

117 again: *facepalm* one self voter is enough.

cookie is a bit... spastic. no problem with an L-2 vote on shrine here. unfortunately for us it seems as though the resident jokers of ms have all been gathered together in one thread. at this point a random lynch seems like it might be the best idea. onward.

page 6:

shrine confirms he's scum.

vote: shrine

bigbear wrote:I don't see how WIFOM at this point in the game really helps the town.
then why did you self vote and then vote no lynch? claiming gambit in retrospect(i did it to spark discussion) is lame.

add bear to "willing to lynch" list.
bigbear wrote:The truth is, long and active day ones are very profitable, and me creating this type of discussion is priceless.
^^ yes and no. the price of wifomic self votes and no lynch discussion starters are more often than not trips down wifom lane that do nothing more than spam threads full of useless discussion that is better off taking place in a general theory forum as opposed to a game where players have to replace in and read through pages of crap about nothing.

129 is correct. cases without material to respond to are difficult to respond to. :)

add cookie to "willing to policy lynch" list.

DRK 131 is a bit non-sequitur. it seems as though shrine is who he finds scummier, but continues attack on farcry for defense of a "bad" vote? i am not following. feels like he should be jumping to shrine here but is choosing not to. filed for future reference.

132 is fail logic by cookie. no surprise there.

DRK now defends shrine. very odd. reads to me like: "lynch shrine, then lynch DRK regardless of the flip."

DRK echoes reasoning of "L-2 out of random stage is bad." fail logic. scum is scum. time is relative.

unvote, vote DRK


not voting shrine is okay, but defending him makes no sense.

139 comes out of the shadows attacking the "easiest" target. lots of quote, not many words...

peabody as well. ^^ read above comment.

if cookie is lynched it should be policy for anti-town behavior, but to imply it is scummy to keep a suspect wagon at L-2 seems counterproductive.

i like 145

i hope we have a vig and i hope its not cookie.

i like 148

i don't like 149. there is no "proper" way to play mafia. posts like this more often come from scum trying to look town. vote stays.

DRK
Shrine
Confid
all for independently scummy behavior.

cookie for policy.

end page 6.
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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:22 am

Post by ZazieR »

Sanjay wrote:What would you like to hear from me, ZazieR?
Nothing much. I'd ony like to hear some content from you. No biggy.
Did you already explain why you've been absent?
Nope, you didn't. Could you do so?
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:27 am

Post by ZazieR »

Kreriov wrote:And Peabody has asked for a replacement. (Before DJ replaced in. I just read DJs PM first.) I do hope all the replacing out is not because I am sucking at modding and mainly because fall classes are starting!

Sending out prods as well.
Though Peabody did stay in his other mini game. That's noted.

(You're not a bad mod. I've seen much worse *cough*NAME WITHHELD as the game is still ongoing*cough*)
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:30 am

Post by ZazieR »

EtherealCookie wrote:Right, I'm still around. I don't really have much to say right now, unfortunately. We're still in Day I, I'm very engaged in two of my games, and I should probably be posting here more but I can't find much to say :X. That's why I was asking for questions directed to me, but I didn't really get any. People just dropped the bandwagon on me instead.
So why don't you ask questions to those who you suspect or comment on recent discussion(s)?
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:41 am

Post by ZazieR »

For
Shrine

Zaz wrote:Question: What was your opinion of FC's vote against Bear? And what was your opinion of Bear's No Lynch vote?
Meaning: Scummy or not and why?
Zaz wrote:But the actual BN vote came much later then when you wanted to vote him according to you. How come?
Also, why did you want to vote BN back at Post 173?
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:51 am

Post by ZazieR »

DRK wrote:As for post 93, I iso'd BB in his other game (he was scum) before making that post and he played considerably better than he was in this game. Of course that doesn't mean he isn't scum, but to me, that pretty clearly means his actions weren't because he was scum playing badly. It's more of a "too scummy to be a reliable scum tell for a decent player" kind of thing.
Which is what you're being accused off.
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:21 am

Post by ZazieR »

Bear wrote:what did you need to look at?
The Shrine-wagon. And after seeing EC's post, the EC-wagon as well.
Bear wrote:I don't remember if I was actually trying to prove that we weren't scum together
Then why state it as reason?
Bear wrote:Would you believe, to see how he would react?
Would need to look at it in context to see if it's believable. Will do so later
But why ask?
Bear wrote:1. who do you think is scum, aside from Brother nature
2. Do you think that the random voting stage was a normal length for a mini normal?
1. Shrine, Nook and KoC.
Not sure about two other players.
2. Nope.
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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:23 am

Post by ZazieR »

Looker
, why did you vote DJ?
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:39 am

Post by ZazieR »

DJ
- What do you think of Bear from what you've read so far?
And can you elaborate why Shrine confirms he's scum to you on page 6?
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:12 am

Post by don_johnson »

none of bear's actions have me leaning town. so a neutral read would be most accurate as of page six. he is using anti-town tactics but has left nothing reliable in either direction at this time.

shrine's 125 reads as though he is trying to convince himself that he is town. i don't know how to better describe it, but he seems to entertain the idea he is scum. odd. realize that my opinions are dynamic as i am posting as i catch up. day 1 is never cut and dry. i have seen town players claim scum. what makes this game more difficult is the player list. very hard to read a bunch of jokers. i would be fine with some sort of policy lynch at deadline, but i am also not fully caught up and since we don't have a deadline that may not be necessary.
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:33 am

Post by Knight of Cydonia »

Mod: see sig, would prefer not to burden with further replacement, but if necessary, feel free.
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:06 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

I wrote:As for post 93, I iso'd BB in his other game (he was scum) before making that post and he played considerably better than he was in this game. Of course that doesn't mean he isn't scum, but to me, that pretty clearly means his actions weren't because he was scum playing badly. It's more of a "too scummy to be a reliable scum tell for a decent player" kind of thing.
Which is what you're being accused off.
To me, there's a difference. BB's behavior by no means cleared him in my mind (slightly scummy read at the time for another post of his I found suspicious), though I do have a town read on BB right now. Basically, I knew he was capable of playing much better as scum than he was (in his only game on the site, nonetheless). There's no reason for me to believe his behavior was serious, especially since it was in the RVS. If he'd continued to play like that, I would have found it scummy, but...I don't know...it just seemed obvious to me that that wasn't serious BB scum play.
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:02 pm

Post by EtherealCookie »

If I was a vigilante, I'd shoot you because I don't like you, so I'd be worried!
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:35 pm

Post by Looker »

Because my current conclusion is that the Mafia are:
Don_Johnson, Sanjay, & [Cookie - OR - BigBear]
, so
FoS the whole lot of'em
.
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:34 pm

Post by ZazieR »

DeathRowKitty wrote:
I wrote:As for post 93, I iso'd BB in his other game (he was scum) before making that post and he played considerably better than he was in this game. Of course that doesn't mean he isn't scum, but to me, that pretty clearly means his actions weren't because he was scum playing badly. It's more of a "too scummy to be a reliable scum tell for a decent player" kind of thing.
Which is what you're being accused off.
To me, there's a difference. BB's behavior by no means cleared him in my mind (slightly scummy read at the time for another post of his I found suspicious), though I do have a town read on BB right now. Basically, I knew he was capable of playing much better as scum than he was (in his only game on the site, nonetheless). There's no reason for me to believe his behavior was serious, especially since it was in the RVS. If he'd continued to play like that, I would have found it scummy, but...I don't know...it just seemed obvious to me that that wasn't serious BB scum play.
You're exactly describing said fallacy. You saw something scummy, but thought that it was so scummy, it couldn't have come from that player as scum.
That's the 'too scummy to be scum'-fallacy
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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:35 pm

Post by ZazieR »

ZazieR wrote:
EtherealCookie wrote:Right, I'm still around. I don't really have much to say right now, unfortunately. We're still in Day I, I'm very engaged in two of my games, and I should probably be posting here more but I can't find much to say :X. That's why I was asking for questions directed to me, but I didn't really get any. People just dropped the bandwagon on me instead.
So why don't you ask questions to those who you suspect or comment on recent discussion(s)?
Still waiting on this,
EC

And an explanation why you aren't doing so.
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