Mini 862 ~ Mafia of Order (Game Over!)

[Cobalt]

I don't think kmd is town. I think DTM is prolly more likely scum. I didn't say I thought kmd was town. Why do you act as if I did?

[Goatrevolt]

When you say you voted KMD because it was gaining momentum and you wanted to make it easier and more obvious for

scum

to jump on, it assumes that KMD is town. If you thought KMD was scum you would have stuck on his wagon, not jumped off at the first sign of confrontation and you wouldn't have said, "I did it just to see who else jumped on". Trying to bait people into joining a wagon just so you can catch who does it only works when the person being wagoned is town.

If you don't think he's town, then why couldn't you provide any reason for being on his wagon except for "I like wagoning" and "I did it to see who jumped on but nobody did"?

There are basically two reasons you could have wanted to make scum jump on the KMD wagon.

1. You think he's scum, and you want to make it more appealing for scum to bus him. This obviously isn't the case, because you jumped off his wagon as quick as you could.
2. You think he's town, and you want to see who tries to go for the easy lynch. You basically said yourself that this wasn't true and you don't think he's town.

So...care to explain?

[VP Baltar]

Have to say I really hate Cobalt's latest exchange with GR.

As far as today's lynch, I'd support DT Master, LL, fuzzylightning and possibly Cobalt (depending on his answers to GR).

I know I said I was feeling that Cobalt was town earlier, but his reasoning behind voting Kmd doesn't make sense whatsoever from a town perspective.

Everyone should be organizing themselves in their next post and presenting (and voting) for who you'd like to see lynched today. No lynch is not an option and we need to reach a concensus soon.

[Cobalt]

When you say you voted KMD because it was gaining momentum and you wanted to make it easier and more obvious for

scum

to jump on, it assumes that KMD is town. If you thought KMD was scum you would have stuck on his wagon, not jumped off at the first sign of confrontation and you wouldn't have said, "I did it just to see who else jumped on". Trying to bait people into joining a wagon just so you can catch who does it only works when the person being wagoned is town.

If you don't think he's town, then why couldn't you provide any reason for being on his wagon except for "I like wagoning" and "I did it to see who jumped on but nobody did"?

There are basically two reasons you could have wanted to make scum jump on the KMD wagon.

1. You think he's scum, and you want to make it more appealing for scum to bus him. This obviously isn't the case, because you jumped off his wagon as quick as you could.
2. You think he's town, and you want to see who tries to go for the easy lynch. You basically said yourself that this wasn't true and you don't think he's town.

So...care to explain?

I thought it was more likely scum would bus if the wagon had more votes on it, but nobody took the bait. I didn't jump off fast, either. I waited till several people had the opportunity to post, and nobody voted. Then I saw a DTwagon forming- I liked him as scum well enough to switch my vote. I expressed my suspicion of him on D1.

[DTMaster]

@VP

a. What? You a misrepresenting me. My first post was in response to your first post. Let's read this again.

Let's get a serious wagon going as soon as possible to ensure that we don't waste any posts. My guess is that the scum in this game are going to be interested in pulling people into arguments that require a lot of posting, especially if anyone becomes a major threat to them.

My,

I have to Agree with VP Balthar here considering the post cap. This reminds me of writing a paper:

"Be concise but full of content."

Also to fuzzy and Sotty7: I think it would be pointless to post count claim, when it's obvious when someone runs out of posts. Unless someone can determine how someone is scummy based on their cap limit, the posts them selves will show us the way.

Cobalt says

wrong, it's probably possible to fake having run out of posts and use that as an excuse to not post content. so I want everyone's numbers out early, so we know if someone tries to fake running out. it also might be important information later- if so the earlier we get it out the less time scum have to fake it

My second post said: "I don't see how it will help us find scum but I will post the post count." in response.

The issue of posts/post counts become a pointless tool to use in scum hunting since numbers <<<<< content in terms of scum reasoning. I also was refrencing to the fact that we should get right into discussion due to the BAM rule set unless you take on the BattleMageism way to scum hunting.

b. Behavioural analysis?

Explain my following arguments in my ISO posts:

ISO 2 towards KMD's lack of scumhunting, toward's Goat's response on Cobalt's claiming he has a fake claim. The art of fake claiming from a scum perspective is wifomy filled, etc..

ISO 4: Insitgate a test to try and role confirm Cobalt. I also defended a Juls attack where wording = scummy some how. :S

ISO 7: I got back From VLA and went on a sabre KMD attack.

11/10: Are issues with the gut call from KMD and his lack of follow through work.

Yes I'm tunnelling on KMD but I find some of his actions very questionable in a regular scum hunting sense.

I'm not using flavour to attack KMD, I'm asking his position on cobalt based on the whole RB issue.

c. The quote said: I find something odd. My inner head went: Did Cobalt just fake claimed he gave Balther 2 posts and then got RBed just because VP said he got a diffrent number? Is it a Cobalt/VP team? I just can't put a finger on it.

For all I know the whole numbering issue is just a cocincidence since your addition error and miscounting is plausable.

[DTMaster]

After that nonsense blah.

@KMD
Wut so did you just admit to going for the guy who was an easier lynch?

I switched to Saber thinking he had more votes.

After seeing a vote count, DDD was the more likely lynch

and my preference (second to Cobalt of course) anyway, so I went back to DDD. And yeah, my gut said he was scum.

I would like to see either these things:

a. Meta links to your games.
or
b. More reasoning here. I'm getting a BattleMage headache from these gut calls.

@Cobalt
Wut. I'm assuming that you agree with VP's case even after you partially defended me? Or are you just sticking with a wagon here.

@Fuzzy/LL/Sabre
Hellloooo over there contributations?

[Sotty7]

So VP's criticisms of me in one of his posts were pretty much true, so I have been re-reading the game.

Before I called ACSN angry town and it seems his replacement Saber has fallen back into that category. However there was a few instances that have made me re-evaluate my position on that player slot. Post 159 is basically a throw away post by a player who is already admittedly low on posts. Then in post 162 after criticizing Sens, saying he hasn't read the rules, Saber says this:

I hope to change that by posting more relevent info, just please don't expect me to pull a mastin or AndyTony, as I'm more of the midsize poster.

Which suggests to me that Saber also hadn't read the rules as posts are capped at 450 words so he couldn't do a mastin post if he wanted.

Saber, you said you had a theory that you were going to with hold in post 158. Care to share what that was?

Fuzzy has been sitting on the outside looking in this whole game. He seems to be posting just enough to scrape by and yet he doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table. I am getting scum vibes off him.

Also getting scum vibes off DTmaster. Post 26 he votes for KMD when he seems to have a much better/stronger reason to be voting for Cobalt. He also votes for Triple D in an effort to get him to post more in post 88. He quickly drops this in 136 to go after ACSN even though Triple D barely posted anything in that time. Another thing I noticed is that he barely mentioned me on day one. In fact he mentions me in his opening post and then never mentions me again all day. Not really sure what this means honestly. Just really makes my paranoia hit the roof.

Have neutral reads on KMD and Locke right now for different reasons. KMD's early day one posting seemed really off and I was feeling scum vibes off him. However as we got closer to deadline he was posting more and it made me feel a bit better about him. Locke is in neutral simply because he is not posting anywhere near enough. This really needs to change.

VP is leaning town just above the menstrual line. I go back and forth on him. Others feel town.

Vote: DTmaster

[Sotty7]

Oh lord.

VP is leaning town just above the

menstrual

neutral line. I go back and forth on him. Others feel town.

Fixed... Silly open office auto correct.

Oh also, Cobalt in post 84 you said you one of the reasons you claimed because sens asked and he was your only solid town read. Then in post 137 you said sens maybe scum. What changed?

[Cobalt]

@Cobalt
Wut. I'm assuming that you agree with VP's case even after you partially defended me? Or are you just sticking with a wagon here.

Partially defend you? I just mentioned that you were on V/LA. That's not a defense.

Oh also, Cobalt in post 84 you said you one of the reasons you claimed because sens asked and he was your only solid town read. Then in post 137 you said sens maybe scum. What changed?

I used to have a town read on him but he's closer to neutral now. He's basically been tunneling on me, calling for a lynch since early in the game. Between those two posts I reevaluated his position and looked over his posts again. I originally felt his attack on me was over-zealous town, but I started to consider that he was scum trying to force a mislynch on me.

[DTMaster]

@Sotty
26: I had two reasons but 1 vote. Does voting and questioning somehow make it not as effective to scum hunt the same issue? Recalled I said: I never saw a town-fake claim before, while reading Tar's game. That doesn't mean it might exist and waited for a response.

88/136: Um so my issue with 1 liner/lack of explainations is somehow a weaker argument to lurking? Lurking is anti-town yes, both I've seen both town and scum do it. I moved on when ACSN was posting his 1 liner blurbs which made no sense analytically. Am I supposed to just lurker hunt? No i'm supposed to vote who I find is scummy at the time. I voted ACSN since I found him > then DDD in terms of scuminess.

My gut was right when DDD flipped town.

Lastly, I didn't need to comment much since I had nothing to comment on? I donno I don't have the time to post as often. You can see that with my posting style. If I missed something that you wanted me to address point it out.

(Aside: >>;; at the auto correct...... )

@Cobalt
I guess. A 1 liner statement doesnt =/= much defense. I concede to your point but you didn't answer any of the above questions in that post. Why?

[VP Baltar]

@DT
a)alright, I can give you this one. I thought post cap was referring to me saying we shouldn't claim our post caps.

b)I never said you were using flavor to attack Kmd. I said you claimed you were going to focus on behavior analysis and have spent a good deal of time talking about flavor. My point is that your actual scumhunting is very lacking in this game for how gung ho you were about it. Out of the iso posts you claim are you scumhunting, I'd say maybe 2 and 10 actually resemble any thing I would call scumhunting (and that is giving you the benefit of the doubt). The rest is pretty much jabs from the sidelines or just general opinion stuff.

c)That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Please explain why you put your vote on ACSN and left it there for the last five days of yesterday even though you said saberwolf was making you feel a bit better about that player slot.

Your latest post stinks of scum as well as you: 1) complain about me attacking you 2)misrep kmd for voting someone who he said he thought was scum, 3)claim Cobalt was defending you when he was not, and 4) deflect attention toward lurkers

Locke is in neutral simply because he is not posting anywhere near enough. This really needs to change.

How would you compare his play here to that in WWF mafia?

VP is leaning town just above the menstrual line.

Well...I...ah....er....ok?

My gut was right when DDD flipped town.

This was on Day 1? Where? I think I'm missing it.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty
26: I had two reasons but 1 vote. Does voting and questioning somehow make it not as effective to scum hunt the same issue? Recalled I said: I never saw a town-fake claim before, while reading Tar's game. That doesn't mean it might exist and waited for a response.

I just feel like the fake claim thing was a bigger deal than your discussion KMD almost as if you were looking for an excuse to vote KMD or not to vote Cobalt.

Locke is in neutral simply because he is not posting anywhere near enough. This really needs to change.

How would you compare his play here to that in WWF mafia?

I realize my memory might be a tad hazy seeing as he basically won us the game, but I remember him posting and playing more than he has in this game. You were calling him out on lurking at one point but I really believed that was because of the timezone difference. I will have a look back and see if I am remembering right, but I am also in another game with him right now where he is lurking equally as hard. I'm not sure if it is much of a tell other than he has no time to play.

[DTMaster]

@VP

b. Um. I am? I've been questioning people about their scum hunting methods? Me attacking people and asking questions?

I can conceded flavourwise for Cobalt I used it for his defence but that was pre-Fuzzy note. But for Sabre I just interjected a detail saying his claim makes sense for this game. Originally I had bread crumbed my name on day one but after that note I gave up because flavour wise it does not prove innocence according to Fuzzy's note.

Since it's two days before the deadline I'm claiming Mia the Townie Duelist (Just Townie). This is probably what Juls meant when he said he saw weird syntax:

My, I have to Agree

with VP Balthar here considering the post cap. This reminds me of writing a paper

Post 1: First letter addressed to ACN, Cobalt and KMD spells Mia.
Post 2: Same thing

Originally I was planning to bread crumb my name to show that I'm Mia but it's now evident that that's pointless.

c. This is called dumb theory which is why I didn't mentioned it. I have a tendency to do this stuff. Read my first newbie game, I thought two people were scum buddies because they were RVSing voting each other at the start of the day.

@Vote Issue
I was gone? I'm sorry but when you get sick and can't post for a couple of days, you leave a lot of games hanging. Your votes stick when you are V/LA. Please note this if you didn't plan on getting sick

@Last comments
1. When I'm defending myself, I'm complaining? How is that a fair argument? It's not since It's just mudslinging. You just painted me in a poor image that when I defend myself against just creates a endless loop that equates defense into complaining.

2. I attacked him for vote hopping in the late bandwagon. His gut said DDD was scum. Now I think I found him admitting he was jumping on the easy wagon = me misreping him?

If KMD is town explain this to me and how that wasn't an admission to go for the easy wagons.

3. I conceded that the statement was a null? >>;; Do you read any more?

4. I deflect towards lurkers how? Its 2 days towards deadline I just asked them to contribute to something. Deflection would mean I attacked them for lurking and voted them to deflect the attention off me. In fact I defended LL since he didn't post when the bandwagon was on him. I did a post search, he didn't post prior to this game. Explain now.

[DTMaster]

@Sotty

After the "wut reaction", I let Cobalt explain himself. Scum claiming fake claim ability makes no sense when I thought it through. The shock value is subjective to the person, I think with reasoning the only conclusion is that there is no sense in claiming fake claim abilities when it defeats the purpose of the fake claim. It's very circular logic to work around.

@VP
Forgot to talk about the last bit. Anyways, I changed my vote from DDD to ACSN right? I said before, I found ACSN scummier then DDD at the time. That's about it.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm not enthralled with a DTMaster lynch. Can we please lynch Locke Lamora?

[VP Baltar]

Unvote, Vote: Locke Lamora

[Vi]

Oh, I'll fight! A general of Gallia does not hide behind his men! Leave this "tactics" garbage to the beorc. We need only our claws and teeth! I call an end to this meeting! Time to kill!

Vote Count:

Locke Lamora (L-3) ~ Goatrevolt, saberwolf, VP Baltar

DTMaster (L-4) ~

VP Baltar,

Cobalt, Sotty7
Kmd4390 (L-4) ~ DTMaster, Locke Lamora,

Cobalt

Cobalt (L-4) ~ SensFan, Kmd4390

Not Voting:

fuzzylightning,

Sotty7

-Everyone who did not post today is being prodded.

--With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
--Deadline is Tuesday, October 27 2009.

(This is your last day!)

Post Count:

saberwolf - 22
Cobalt - 46
DTMaster - 15
fuzzylightning - 13
Goatrevolt - 29
Kmd4390 - 32
Locke Lamora - 7
SensFan - 23
Sotty7 - 16
VP Baltar - 28

[Cobalt]

Whoa, I had no idea deadline was so close. Ugh, I don't have support for a competing wagon.

unvote vote: locke lamora

[Locke Lamora]

All I can say about not posting enough is that I haven't been able to get on the site much and that I'm in too many games for the amount of time I can get online. It doesn't look like I'm going to get a KMD lynch now and I dislike Cobalt's vote-hopping and her inconsistent reasons for doing so, which leads me to:

unvote; Vote: Cobalt

I will endeavour to get back online and claim later if I'm going to be put at L-1. As we're this close to deadline I agree that lynching me is preferable to a no-lynch and I understand why people think I'm active lurking, so all I can really do at this stage is apologise for that.

[VP Baltar]

More votes folks. Deadline is rapidly approaching and we need a concensus in short order. DT and Sotty need to take a side. It is looking like either LL (L-2) or Cobalt (L-3). fuzzy isn't even voting cause he's scum. Let's focus here and reach some kind of decision with time to spare.

[Sotty7]

unvote vote: Locke Lamora

[fuzzylightning]

I apologize for having gone missing this weekend, got really busy with school and real life.

The wagon on Locke seems to be for his lurking, and I can't really jump on that for that reason because I have been lurking as well to this point, or it has been interpreted like I have. He also seems to be willing to sacrifice himself instead of a no-lynch, which probably isn't a tell either way, but I am not sure how to take that.

I don't like Cobalt hopping onto an easy wagon in a gambit of sorts. It just seems like an opportunistic reason to get out of what could be seen as a scummy move.

VP: Just because I am not voting, doesn't mean anything regarding my alignment. I haven't posted here recently because I have been busy and since I hadn't had a vote before my last post, I wasn't going to have one now.

Sensfan: I don't like his extreme tunneling on Cobalt and his hop to Sabre without ever once mentioning him or ACSN in a post prior to his switch on Day 1.

Vote: Cobalt

because for some reason, I just don't feel comfortable with a LL lynch because I can't find a reason outside of lurking, which I have been guilty of too.

[Locke Lamora]

I believe that's L-1; I am Janaff, the right wing of Hawk King Tibarn. I have 3 1-shot abilities under the title of Insight - character name, role name and post count. My post count restriction is 60. My voice of Yune says 'I wonder how much the post count restriction matters anyway?'

[VP Baltar]

So, you know the role names of three players and the post counts they should have?

[Locke Lamora]

No, each one is an individual investigation. I can find out a character name one night, a role name one night and I've already investigated Saber's post count because the way he claimed it sounded dodgy to me, but he did indeed start the game with a restriction of 50. I'll investigate whoever people would like investigated for either of the other two tonight.