Newbie 841 - Game over!

[PaltryExcuse]

Just to bite the meta thing in the bud: in this case I think it is a null-tell. Two reasons:
1. Emotion can be faked. Not saying you are, but it can be. From what I've read, people act differently sometimes when scumhunting, are scum... etc. One of the reasons there are problems with fitz's first post of Day 3 is that it could be fake disappointment.
2. You seem very aware of your meta. Whether it was played to your advantage, or it was a genuine reaction, will be determined by your flip.

[Starbuck]

I don't know how I feel about Pablo referring to his own meta.

[havingfitz]

That game in which I was scum was anger due to lack of activity in the game. Go back and look at the total length of that game. Awful. This game's frustration has come out of being voted for via weak cases and others misunderstanding my cases, which falls right into my Meta.

In that post by itself it's not obvious what the deeper reasons of your blowup are...it's just in response to someone else's thoughts on an exchange you had had. Not sure the reasons for either blow up matter. They just cancel each other out in re: to your comment about getting pissed when you are town when it can also be shown you do the same thing as scum.

[Pablo Molinero]

2. You seem very aware of your meta. Whether it was played to your advantage, or it was a genuine reaction,

will be determined by your flip

.

I don't like this statement. It already assumes I will be lynched and in doing so subtlety pushes the town in that direction.

[PaltryExcuse]

2. You seem very aware of your meta. Whether it was played to your advantage, or it was a genuine reaction,

will be determined by your flip

.

I don't like this statement. It already assumes I will be lynched and in doing so subtlety pushes the town in that direction.

That's not what I meant at all. I thought flip just meant when your role is revealed.

[Pablo Molinero]

Agreed that the Meta is null and most likely playstyle. I simply posted it in response to T-c pulling out one of my scum-games to try and make it a point against me when it isn't.

[Starbuck]

Paltry, the word "flip" is always used in connotation with the lynch.

[Pablo Molinero]

2. You seem very aware of your meta. Whether it was played to your advantage, or it was a genuine reaction,

will be determined by your flip

.

I don't like this statement. It already assumes I will be lynched and in doing so subtlety pushes the town in that direction.

That's not what I meant at all. I thought flip just meant when your role is revealed.

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong, Star) that "flip" is understood to be someone’s reveal after they've been lynched unless you specifically say "at endgame".

[Pablo Molinero]

Damn same-time posts. That's happened like 4 times to me in this game.

[Starbuck]

To back it up:

[url=http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Flip]Flip - MafiaScum Wiki[/quote]

The easiest way to link to the Wiki is as follows:

Code: Select all

[wiki]Article Name[/wiki]

No need to use the [url ] tags.

Link --->

Flip

[Starbuck]

Omg failz tagz, Vel can you fix that plx?

[PaltryExcuse]

Page 23 will hereby referred to as: "Teh Fail Page".

In more serious news:

Agreed that the Meta is null and most likely playstyle. I simply posted it in response to T-c pulling out one of my scum-games to try and make it a point against me when it isn't.

I disagree with the fact that you disagree! ^_^ Gosh, I think it's stupid for scum to call any attention to their scumbuddy (whether they agree or not with the arguments put forth) so naturally that makes you scummy for me! @_@;

Also, can't believe you just tried to use Occam's razor. =_=

I don't think you're dense enough to really believe the stuff you're proposing, so I'd have to say I think you're scum! ^_^ I have a better opinion of you than that!

What a f**king terrible attitude. You've slapped me in the face and act as if you don't realize it. Hide behind those cutesy smiley-faces all you want. I'm town and yes I do believe in what I'm saying. You're condescending, dismissive, and oblivious all in one post. I'm pulling the IC card: I believe my argument because I have played many a game on this site and you start to see trends after a while. This is one of them.

...I'm done with you. I'm going to be asking around for opinions after this game is over just to see how wrong you are: your grasp of basic mafia theory is crap if you think lynching me over the others is a good idea based on the points I've put forward/argued.

FYI I have no intention of explaining anything unless asked by someone who is not Pablo~ I really don't think I need to! ^_^;

You don't think you have to explain yourself?!?! What kind of privileged attitude is that bullshit. Come up with some reasons and flow of logic instead of just going "nuh uh" and leaving it at that. You may be cleared as an innocent, but that still means you have to think critically at times. Someone call her on this. Starbuck? Fitz?

Gah, I can already see the inherently false calls of "scum-blowup" coming my way. I urge someone to do a meta on me: I get this passionate/pissed when I'm town.

The second quote was the first indication mention of meta, and it was being used as a possible defense. Am I misunderstanding something here?

[Starbuck]

How can you even use meta in a Newbie Game? I mean seriously.

[PaltryExcuse]

I am not particularly convinced by the case on havingfitz... It's not easy to see when rereading, but when havingfitz dropped his weird L-1 on OMGLyncher the game had stalled -- iirc we were literally getting one post every three days or something! >_< I remember feeling very frustrated and impatient at that point, so I didn't find it a stretch to believe that fitz felt the same way~

Hence why I find the strongest point against fitz is Starbuck's argument nothing RayFrost could do would sway fitz's opinion. I'm still thinking about this one.

There's a difference between defensiveness and OVERdefensiveness.

What are signs of overdefensiveness vs. a defense in your opinion?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Pablo Molinero - 1 (havingfitz)

havingfitz - 2 (Starbuck, Pablo Molinero)

Not Voting - 2 (PaltryExcuse, Tororingu-chan)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, November 8.

[Pablo Molinero]

I think that second quote (the first time I mentioned Meta) was me trying to preemptively head off any comment of "scum getting frustrated" because I have seen

a lot

of times passion mistaken for scuminess in newbie games.

[havingfitz]

I am not particularly convinced by the case on havingfitz... It's not easy to see when rereading, but when havingfitz dropped his weird L-1 on OMGLyncher the game had stalled -- iirc we were literally getting one post every three days or something! >_< I remember feeling very frustrated and impatient at that point, so I didn't find it a stretch to believe that fitz felt the same way~

Hence why I find the strongest point against fitz is Starbuck's argument nothing RayFrost could do would sway fitz's opinion. I'm still thinking about this one.?

I think it is wrong for people to speculate on whether I would have voted for Ray if he had given a good defense. Since he didn't (by his own admission) I voted him out after giving him more time than anyone else to make a defense. Iirc even Pablo would have hammered OMG. I gave Ray time to defend and he did not to a degree worth reconsidering my stance (and apparently for 4-5 others as well).

There's a difference between defensiveness and OVERdefensiveness.

What are signs of overdefensiveness vs. a defense in your opinion?

Good luck getting answers to your questions.

[Tororingu-chan]

The second quote was the first indication mention of meta, and it was being used as a possible defense. Am I misunderstanding something here?

You are right, I had no intention of of saying "I caught you, you horrible scum, so you are angry, ha-HA!!" ^_^;; I did and still do consider it a null-tell, but I felt I had to respond when Pablo felt the need to pre-emptively defend himself and say use it as a weird defense of sorts.... @_o;;;

Basically, my current stance in this game is: I don't think PaltryExcuse is scum. I'll go reread and get back to you people! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

I'd like to note that I still don't believe that "bad cases" are a reliable scumtell in newbie games... x_x;; Every player makes scumtells (unwittingly or... well, unwittingly, usually! ^_^) and you can construct a case around them regardless of alignment!

havingfitz

:arrow: He explicitly stated that he wasn't convinced by my case against DeathNote. I didn't find it that bad, because I think almightybob defended as well as he could have! ^_^

:arrow: His case against Pablo D2 wasn't that great. I'm more inclined to attribute that to inexperience than anything else... I've taken a look at his first game and he pretty much spend the entire time going "?????" before he got lynched! ._.

:arrow: His reactions seem a little faked sometimes, but that's not something I feel comfortable lynching for... since you can't really tell whether they're faked or not. @_@;;

:arrow: I'm not sure what I think about his final RayFrost hammer. I do feel that he has been pretty consistent.... I found RayFrost's answers pretty inadequate as well! On hindsight, you can easily say that the OMGLyncher case wasn't very good (it wasn't) but it's not so easy to see when you're actually in the moment. >_<;;

Pablo Molinero

:arrow: He totally ignored the case against DeathNote! O_O; He mentioned something about him disappearing, then proceeds to call ABR scummy.... To me, that seems like he's trying to draw attention away! Afterwards, he goes "I'm townie beause if I were scum I'd try to defend my scumbuddy."

:arrow: I do think that his D3 attempt against PaltryExcuse and havingfitz is pretty weak, even if I don't like to lynch people for that. (But hey, I can if you guys insist it is a scumtell...) He somehow gets it from somewhere that both scum HAD to be on the OMGLyncher wagon and therefore one of PE or fitz must be scum! o_O;; Mislynches are scum-driven? Sure, that's why DeathNote was on it... Afterwards, he goes "I'm townie because scum vote for townies."

PaltryExcuse

:arrow: I

really

hope he is town.

:arrow: He has probably stood out the least so far. He did stand up and make his own case D3 (which is probably the riskiest time for scum to stand out), so I can't really accuse him of fence-sitting... =_=;;

:arrow: I really,

really

hope he is town.

:arrow: I don't think (as Pablo mentioned) that he sort-of disagreed with my case on DeathNote. I think PE sort-of agreed... but didn't do much because almightybob defended correctly... then said he'd keep his eye on him after that. Probably the most town reaction from the three of you! ^_^;

[Tororingu-chan]

I forgot to add, that Pablo's case against PE seemed a bit forced to me because of stuff like this:

Oh… wow. Really. This genuinely surprised me. You’re calling more attention to a potential scumbuddy. Either epic bussing or a very townie indicator for Paltry.

I mean, I read it as a towntell... no, MAYBE IT'S EPIC BUSSING!! O_O; (and later he brings up Occam's razor to defend himself/attack PE some more, but not for this !_!)

That's why it looks to me that he decided on a target before-hand and just went for it instead of weighing the scumtells and towntells to decide... >_<;;

[Pablo Molinero]

My case against PE was mostly reactionary and defensive to someone who just launched an all-out assault on me. Of course my first reaction is to think they're scummy.

[Tororingu-chan]

So you thought he was scum was because he thought you were scum? @_@;;

[Pablo Molinero]

That, and using that awful "didn't comment on Bob/DN" case, yes.

[Tororingu-chan]

Just checking... but you're still standing by your previous points that:
A) (Both?) Mafia are very likely to vote for townies, and it applies in this situation.
B) People who suspect are likely Mafia.
C) People who make bad cases are likely Mafia.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I need to make sure I got this straight~ @_@;;

[Tororingu-chan]

EBWOP: *suspect you