Mini 859 - Cleansing of Falls Church - Over

[DeathRowKitty]

Just so everyone knows, that's L-2.

@IK
Can you think of any non-mafia motivations for EC's actions? I'm just looking for a yes or a no (I asked you specifically because your experience playing with me makes you more likely to figure out what I'm implying).

then, when nook mentioned a Jester by name, DRK said:

I have a wild speculation that he's a Jester out to get lynched as quickly as possible.

That's what I was trying to suggest to IK.

@IK
I thought you might pick up on the fact that I said "non-mafia motivations," when I normally use "scum" almost exclusively to refer to the mafia. By non-mafia, I was trying to imply third party (perhaps one that wanted to be lynched or accumlate votes).

So DRK here admits he was trying to stir up Jester speculation.
bada-bing.

Theory time!

What exactly is it that makes mentioning a jester scummy? Is it the act of using the word? Is it the act of starting a conversation?
Mentioning a jester is scummy for a few possible reasons. If the "jester" is actually scum, the player could have been trying to distract from a lynch. If the "jester" is actually town, the player could have been trying to get the person lynched. Arguably those views are contradictory, but since reluctance to lynch a jester (which is surprisingly common) goes against theoretically ideal play, it's possible for a player to steer it in either direction.

Now let's examine what I was doing. I brought it up semi-privately to IK hoping he would catch the hint and not let the wagon monopolize game play. Notice I said I only wanted a yes/no answer. That was because I just wanted him to consider the possibility so he might unvote and we could check other leads without the EC wagon running away if he was jester. I guess if EC is scum, this could lead into what I typed above, but you'd have to assume EC is scum.

Nook's reference to jesters involved him direcly bringing up the possibility in thread. After nook's post, the thought was in everyone's mind. (When I brought it up, no one (not even IK like I intended) gave it a second thought.) That's what makes a jester reference bad. However, I'm not considering it a scum tell yet and it's because he said it in a way that opposed the lynch. This makes it largely dependent on EC's flip. If EC flips scum, then I think this is a very valid point against nook. If EC is anything else, I don't see a scum motivation.

[Knight of Cydonia]

At the end of the day, all those fancy words don't hide the fact that you, not Nook, initiated Jester dialogue with IK. You brought it up first. No-one was even considering it before you said that to IK.
Bringing a Jester (a horrible role I have only ever used in Bastard setups offsite) into the game without any reason to do so, is scummy. Just 'cause you didn't say "Hey, IK, think this is a jester?" doesn't make it less scummy.

[Sanjay]

Nook initiated jester dialogue too, KoC. You think nook is scummy too, right?

[DeathRowKitty]

@KoC
What about bringing up a jester do you find scummy?

[don_johnson]

156 is contributory.

i don't like shrine's response and don't know why ec says "fair". i am thinking ec is one of those players who contributes "unknowingly" and so accepts labels such as "useless" for lack of better strategy. the flip side is that they are scum running distraction tactics. speaking of which: looker, do you have any other suspects?

nothing wrong with 159.

yes krer, the redskins suck.

peabody says fencesitting is a scumtell. i don't think its definitive, but not going to argue the point.

161 is wierd. there was no claim. pointing out a possible claim with the double, no triple question mark is scummy.

162 antsy town or scummy fluff. don't remember drk using the *asterisk* bit in our last game.

166 no real explanation as to why sanjay leaves confid here. bn must be lurking, but why the vote switch? there are other ways to ask players to participate.

169 *facepalm* sorry.

end page 7

i hate doing this btw. i feel like my suspicions are not going to be congruent with where i leave off. i will keep plugging a bit tonight. vote stays, mostly due to the huge reaction it got. for reference, sometimes when i replace in i only read particular sections of a game to determine my vote. i find isolation to be effective. anyhoo, back to reading...

[Sanjay]

Didn't really feel like anyone else was jumpin' on the bandwagon and I sort of lost my passion for it given Confid's responses.

There are other ways to get a player to participate, but nothing works quite as effectively as a nice, old-fashioned vote to the head.

Read faster.

[don_johnson]

180 drk scores points on FC observations. don't like the winking.

oh, okay. replacement. why hasn't anyone mentioned policy lynching? i realize sanjay switched his vote to stimulate a lurker, but he switched it with little follow up and switched it from a player whom he seemed to have a case against. noone has just come out and said, "hey, let's policy lynch someone!" odd.

bb comments on 131, rereading that post and i kind of see drk's point. however, i guess what grabs me second time around ins the mention of "scum slip" with little to no follow up. its fluffy. its like, "i'm just gonna add this in here to make it look like i'm genuinely scum hunting." i think scumslips should either be kept to yourself for future reference, or voted immediately and ridden hard.

186 is... reasonable.

187 first implication of jester i have seen. didn't someone mention recently that nook first brought it up? problem is, it is scummiest if ec is scum racking up votes and drk is partner trying to shake them off.

KoC: can you expand on the issue here? what is scummy about the conversation i am about to read? are there any highlights i should note?

188 looker = ethereal cookie i knew it couldn't last.

189 yeah, i guess i'd lynch cookie first. probably hard to notice lookers regression in real time. iso reads may be in order.

what's funny at this point is that the ec wagon has taken so long to develop.

nothing wrong with 193.

196 "i disagree with your opinion on ec's play but i'm voting him anyway." ?

[don_johnson]

Didn't really feel like anyone else was jumpin' on the bandwagon and I sort of lost my passion for it given Confid's responses.

There are other ways to get a player to participate, but nothing works quite as effectively as a nice, old-fashioned vote to the head.

Read faster.

did you ever follow up your investigation? bn chimed in and dropped out, confid started lurking, and you started doing...? i guess i'll find out.

[don_johnson]

211: wtf? the post is a giant bag of "hey guys, let's talk about things that are best not to talk about! but actually, we should talk about it and lynch the person we're talking about, but we really shouldn't because then that might negatively affect our scumhunting" not really following.

212 yes.

214 why is it scummy? poor form, but why scummy? good point about nk'ing jesters though. unfortunate problem is the potential waste of a nightkill. reality is that this is not a themed game and there shouldn't be a jester. why are we still talking about it?

215 "WASN'T ME! IT WAS NOOK!"

217 smell that? its fresh air.

221 protown thoughts.

224 looker scumhunting again.

end page 9

[don_johnson]

226 is horrible. ec has been acting a certain way all game and confid chimes in only to point out an extremely uber weak AtE.

229 seriously? now its getting scummy. if bringing up the possibility of there being a jester is "anti-town", why on earth did YOU BRING IT UP?

239 is regurgitated and obvious fluff.

done on page ten. no reason to change vote. confid is scummy independently, ec still by association with drkscum. ecscum may implicate lookerscum. drk still most obvious.

callin it a night.

mod: requesting one week deadline extension?

[BigBear]

mod: requesting one week deadline extension?

what....? why? We still have 10 more days!

[Kreriov]

As the deadline gets closer, I will consider it. I am not sure what is hurting the game more, lack of replacements or that it is dragging on to long.

[don_johnson]

mod: requesting one week deadline extension?

what....? why? We still have 10 more days!

i am going to be extremely busy. keeping up is easy, catching up takes time.

[Sanjay]

Hey, don_johnson, I have a request.

Could you link to the first post in every one of these post recap sessions? That would make it more convenient to follow along.

Also, to answer your question, I didn't really follow it up because I lost my passion for the argument. I just sort of made a mental note to keep my eye on Confid, which actually didn't do very much because I kind of have one of those on everyone (this is a kind of scummy seeming town).

[don_johnson]

i don't link:

a) because i don't know how.

b) if you notice, i am going page by page. go to the page i am currently on as per my post and you should be able to easily scroll down to the corresponding number. for reference, i was born before cell phones, so i am not afraid of a little manual labor.

so you think confid is "scummy seeming town"? do i have that right?

[Sanjay]

Well, in case you change your mind, linking is very easy:

Just click the little page icon to the left of each post's date. That gives you a direct link to any individual post.

Then it is as easy as this:

Post 664

[Sanjay]

Which looks like this:

Post 664

[Sanjay]

I meant this town is scummy seeming.

The only one I really ever had a strong town read on was DRK but I've since lost it.

Once Halloween weekend is over I'm going to be rereading this thread. Hopefully I can get stronger reads then and maybe even a few town reads.

I know they aren't the most important thing in scumhunting but I just love them so.

[Kreriov]

Effective immediately

Furry

is replacing nook.

[ConfidAnon]

Sorry for disappearing . . . will et caught up PRONTO

[Sanjay]

Hi, Confid! Am I still voting for you?

[ConfidAnon]

So, Confid, why push this? Do you really think that DRK made such a significant tell that he's worth tunneling on? What about Nook, who also
brought up Jester?

I pushed this because bringing the jester discussion is scummy. He stated that his post implied a jester, then denied that he brought up the topic.

You're right. I should Unvote: Vote: ConfidAnon, But I was also in the not voting category....

Also, do you mean that I'm not asking questions? and that is why I am scummy?

Bandwagon

I'd just like to know the point of the argument. ConfidAnon, what were your intentions for this dispute?
unvote
vote ConfidAnon

My original post was made to scumhunt. The argument continued because I foundhis insistence scummy. I'm convinced that I'm right, and I'm the kind of guy that loves to argue.

[BigBear]

You're right. I should Unvote: Vote: ConfidAnon, But I was also in the not voting category....

Also, do you mean that I'm not asking questions? and that is why I am scummy?

Bandwagon

FoS

-I was the third vote on you, why are you/were you so worried?
-Bandwagons are quite normal.
-You do realize that I am no longer voting you.

[Furry]

*tackle hugglez*

Hey all

I read about half the game last night before I got too tired. Glad at least some of you are voting CA even though things likely have changed since then.

unvote

[ConfidAnon]

Here's my take on it, for what it's worth. The initial accusations were anti-town and clearly not based on any sort of attention to facts. As you've said though, scum wouldn't be any more likely than town to initiate such an attack. That's why I didn't vote him initially and the initial attack isn't why I'm voting him. It's his insistence on trying to say I did something I very clearly didn't. A townie trying to scumhunt wouldn't want to make a case based on things that aren't true. On the other hand, I can see CA-scum trying hard to defend his arguments, especially after he based a vote on them. If CA is town, it also raises the question of why he would want to drop the issue if he thinks I'm scum. Basically, everything I said here.

So much fail in one post . . .

I'd love to dissect it and restate how you're wrong, but busted keyboard won't let me.