Mini 862 ~ Mafia of Order (Game Over!)

[Vi]

No! Ahh... I'm dying... on an empty stomach...

--- Sotty7 ---

Ilyana, Townie Merchant (Vanilla)

--- Killed Night 2.

------

Vote Count:

Not Voting:

saberwolf, DTMaster, fuzzylightning, Goatrevolt, Kmd4390, Locke Lamora, SensFan, VP Baltar

- ...?

--With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
--Deadline is Thursday, November 5 2009.

(7 days left)

Post Count:

saberwolf - 23
DTMaster - 15
fuzzylightning - 16
Goatrevolt - 31
Kmd4390 - 35
Locke Lamora - 10
SensFan - 23

Sotty7 - 19

VP Baltar - 33

People who are eligible for an inactivity modkill:

You

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I suck. Umm. This game needs another look from me. Based on my earlier reads, Fuzzy and Saber are the most likely scum, but I want to look again considering how poor my reads were on DDD and Cobalt. I'll get around to that within the next couple of days. Maybe in my favorite way (aka VC analysis).

[Goatrevolt]

Vote SensFan

[VP Baltar]

Vote: Sensfan

[VP Baltar]

Kmd, we are doing vote count analysis today for sure. Also, wtf happened to all of your posts in this game? Everything from the first two days disappeared.

You need to explain what you meant when you said that 'unless someone has another explanation of where posts came from Cobalt is scum'..or whatever the direct quote was. That made no sense to me.

Kmd, I'd also like your thoughts on why you wouldn't receive posts when everyone else apparently did. Did you receive any last night? (<--I want kmd to answer this before anyone else chimes in please).

LL, don't claim your result yet. I am thinking we should mass claim first. What are the unclaimed players' thoughts on mass claim?

Sens-cobalt is dead. Time for you to dish majorly on your thoughts or I am perfectly happy with lynching you.

Goat, you haven't been under any pressure at all this game and that really worries me. I need to iso read you today.

I'm also going to try and reread the whole game today.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm going to visit a few friends of mine this weekend, so I probably won't post again until Sunday night or Monday.

I want to do a full reread of the game myself. I wanted to do it before the lynch yesterday, but simply didn't have the time.

I'm thinking Sens is scum because he has contributed basically 0 to this game other than planting his vote on Cobalt, but doing nothing to actively try to get Cobalt lynched. He was also completely inactive here at deadline yesterday despite (to my knowledge) being active on the site.

I really should have opposed the deadline Cobalt lynch. I was fairly certain he was town based on the way he played this game and the fact that he claimed to be roleblocked (when as scum, the safer and smarter play would to be simply to use your ability to "prove" it). I got too caught up in his actions regarding the KMD wagon making about a grand total of 0% sense.

I'm sorely lacking in town reads right now. Saberwolf I believe is town, and I'm not interested in lynching VP Baltar today, even though I'm not sold on him as town. Beyond that I don't have anything solid. DT/Fuzzy/Locke I can really see going either way.

I'm fine with massclaim. If there are 3 allied scum in this game, we're facing down Lylo anyway.

[Kmd4390]

Kmd, we are doing vote count analysis today for sure.

That works. I have class in an hour though and it's a 30 minute drive so I need to get in the shower. I have to pick up pictures after class and work after that. I should be home around 3 AM (12 hours from now), so I'll try to do my analysis after that.

Also, wtf happened to all of your posts in this game? Everything from the first two days disappeared.

The fuck?!?

Anyone who knows anything about this needs to speak up. I'm interested to see how many posts the Mod says I've used in the next vote count.

You need to explain what you meant when you said that 'unless someone has another explanation of where posts came from Cobalt is scum'..or whatever the direct quote was. That made no sense to me.

I don't have time to look who, but someone claimed that everyone gets 7 posts while they were alive. What I said was that this person was telling the truth unless someone had another explanation for people getting 7 posts.

Kmd, I'd also like your thoughts on why you wouldn't receive posts when everyone else apparently did. Did you receive any last night? (<--I want kmd to answer this before anyone else chimes in please).

lol That was kind of a joke. I technically recieved posts. I don't know how many though. Don't worry, it will make sense when I eventually fullclaim.

What are the unclaimed players' thoughts on mass claim?

Why would we massclaim now?

[Goatrevolt]

Both Juls and Sotty thought DTMaster was scum. Both are now dead via NK. I find this to be pretty meaningful, especially because neither were strongly considered pro-town by anyone and weren't "obvious" kill choices. Both considered VP neutral (or maybe menstrual, hard to tell sometimes) and Sotty thought Fuzzy was scum as well. I think this is a strong point against the master of all things DT.

Considering I've been in pretty much everyone's town pile this game and have been pretty active, I have to assume that I haven't been a NK option because I've been wrong. I pushed for LL over DT yesterday, and have had Sens in my townish pile most of the game.

Unvote

I'd rather not keep an active vote on right now, considering this probably is Lylo. I'm betting the scum are DTMaster + SensFan and then one of Fuzzy/Locke/KMD/Baltar.

I can't shake a nagging suspicion that Baltar is scum, despite not really having anything to pin on him. I'm pretty much resigning this to a "let's catch the other scum first and then compare his interactions."

[VP Baltar]

@Kmd-we should mass claim because it could be lylo and there aren't even that many players left who haven't claimed. I don't see any reason not to at this point. Additionally, there is the potential to catch someone in a lie depending on LL's investigation.

@Goat-Glad to see you are coming around on DT. I let it go yesterday because you were so opposed to it, but the main reason I pushed on him was Juls wanting him dead so hard on Day 1. She also wanted Sotty dead. I figured one of those two were the ones who sent the kill, with DT seeming more likely. Clearly I was correct that it wasn't Sotty.

I know what you are saying about the nagging suspicion because I feel the same way about you, but its entirely in a "I don't find this guy suspicious at all and that worries the hell out of me" kind of way.

I feel the scum team is some combination of Sens/DT/Kmd/Fuzzy for now, however. That's where we need to be lynching today.

I also want whoever erased Kmd's posts to come forward during massclaim and explain why.

[Goatrevolt]

If you have a nagging suspicion that I'm scum, why would my opposition to DT's wagon cause you to drop it?

[VP Baltar]

I didn't really yesterday because it was only day 2. The fact that you have been on everyone's protown list and you're not dead on day 3, however, is a touch disconcerting...especially since the scumbags didn't target any of the claimed powerroles last night. I personally thought Sotty was a bit scummy, so I'm surprised at her dying.

Oh, and you are right about Sens not posting near deadline yesterday. I was posting in a thread with him at that time and was fully expecting him to post here during that time. I want him to explain why he didnt' post here when he was clearly online and would have known that deadline was approaching rapidly.

[saberwolf]

I'm here and have already claimed everything. I also recieved another 7 posts to my post cap.

[Locke Lamora]

I'll wait until massclaim happens (if it does today) before I reveal my result.

I fully support a Sens lynch. I thought the tunnelling on Cobalt was just townie stubbornness early on but the complete refusal to acknowledge any reasonable points concerning her and the persistent 'LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH' posts have convinced me that he doesn't have pro-town motives. I can see Sens/DTM/Fuzzy as a scumteam right now.

[Vi]

Think of a way for me to use my strength! Anything else is a waste of time. I'll be training outside. Tell me when you have a "plan."

Vote Count:

SensFan (L-4) ~

Goatrevolt,

VP Baltar

Not Voting:

saberwolf, DTMaster, fuzzylightning,

Goatrevolt,

Kmd4390, Locke Lamora, SensFan,

VP Baltar,

Goatrevolt

--With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
--Deadline is Thursday, November 5 2009.

(6 days left)

Post Count:

saberwolf - 24
DTMaster - 15
fuzzylightning - 16
Goatrevolt - 34
Kmd4390 - 37
Locke Lamora - 11
SensFan - 23
VP Baltar - 36

People who are eligible for an inactivity modkill:

DTMaster
fuzzylightning
SensFan

[DTMaster]

Sorry school + work + stress = mafia on the back burner.

@KMD
:S I'm just mighty confused to why your posts got deleted. According to Vi's post count they still count towards post usage so the only other alternative that makes sense is that you struck a nerve with someone.

Again: my questions and requests:

1. Meta links to your games preferably 1 scum and 1 townie. Preferably the game where you pointed out scum with your gut.

2. I originally quoted you but I guess there is nothing to double check back: You said that DDD appeared scummy at the time of the day one wagon. But you also said you voted DDD out of admission that he was the more likely lynch. Why?

3. You're planning a VC analysis after your original gut call on DDD and Cobalt? Why didn't you do any other analysis before when I attacked you on your gut calls?

@VP
Any comments on the previous day? I feel like something is left hanging there.

@Goat
I don't know what to say to that theory since the only defense against it is the "I might have been framed" defense followed by WIFOM defenses. There isn't a way to disprove this unless LL investigated me and got a different role on me then what I claimed.

@LL
I agree with the delay, but given any claims so far if you have something contradictory that links them to being obv scum now would be the time to point it out in my opinion. I leave the choice up to you though.

@Sabre
Anything to actually weigh in? Given that you were given 7 posts I expected you to post more then a line in said first post of the day since you were worried about using too many posts.

@Town
My post count did raise again from 72 to 79 (I gained 7 posts). Given that Fuzzy claimed to give the global post count that is an ability confirmation (and you can add Heron flavour songs here). Personally I dislike a fuzzy and LL lynch unless new evidence surfaces up. The only one I really like is KMD at the moment and Sens for his tunnel play. Sabre I just go :S right now.

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd-we should mass claim because it could be lylo and there aren't even that many players left who haven't claimed. I don't see any reason not to at this point. Additionally, there is the potential to catch someone in a lie depending on LL's investigation.

Why are you voting if you assume we are likely in LYLO and want to massclaim?

@Goat-Glad to see you are coming around on DT. I let it go yesterday because you were so opposed to it, but the main reason I pushed on him was Juls wanting him dead so hard on Day 1. She also wanted Sotty dead. I figured one of those two were the ones who sent the kill, with DT seeming more likely. Clearly I was correct that it wasn't Sotty.

You dropped it just because Goat was opposed to it? And why not mention the Juls thing yesterday?

I know what you are saying about the nagging suspicion because I feel the same way about you, but its entirely in a "I don't find this guy suspicious at all and that worries the hell out of me" kind of way.

Too townie?

@KMD
:S I'm just mighty confused to why your posts got deleted. According to Vi's post count they still count towards post usage so the only other alternative that makes sense is that you struck a nerve with someone.

Again: my questions and requests:

1. Meta links to your games preferably 1 scum and 1 townie. Preferably the game where you pointed out scum with your gut.

2. I originally quoted you but I guess there is nothing to double check back: You said that DDD appeared scummy at the time of the day one wagon. But you also said you voted DDD out of admission that he was the more likely lynch. Why?

3. You're planning a VC analysis after your original gut call on DDD and Cobalt? Why didn't you do any other analysis before when I attacked you on your gut calls?

Yeah, no clue about the posts being gone. Either someone will say something about it or scum decided to be assholes on me.

1. Ok, I'll get around to this. I just got home from work and it's 5AM...

2. I had DDD as my second suspect very early in the game. The ONLY reason I opposed VP's idea to start a DDD wagon is because it was late in the day and we already had 3 wagons, 2 of which I could support. Adding a 4th made absolutely no sense. When the wagon reached the level of the others, and the Cobalt lynch looked unlikely, DDD was the best place for my vote because he was my next suspect and more likely a lynch than Cobalt (my first suspect).

3. Day 3 is the best time for VC analysis. Day 1 is the worst time for it.

[VP Baltar]

@DT-I will have comments on the previous day, don't worry about that. I need some time to reread over things, however. It probably isn't going to be today because I have to spend the day in Barbados for work. I get back from there at about 10am tomorrow, so I'm hoping to spend my Sunday afternoon rereading the game and will definitely have my thoughts about yesterday's progression tomorrow.

@Kmd-

Why are you voting if you assume we are likely in LYLO and want to massclaim?

Actually, even assuming three scum, we aren't in lylo unless there is some hidden kill out there. Apart from that, I'm very happy with my vote and I want Sens to know that. He intentionally avoiding the game yesterday and thus should swing for it. He can post or die for all I care.

You dropped it just because Goat was opposed to it? And why not mention the Juls thing yesterday?

Partially, yes. Partially because his vanilla claim was believable. Partially because some of his replies to my case seemed plausible enough. He could obviously be using a fake claim, but I was willing to let it go at that moment if someone who has played the most town-like out of everyone says they would prefer someone else. And the Juls thing was not mentioned because there was a plenty substantial case against DT without it. Furthermore, it is possible that Juls was a bodyguard role of some time (though I don't know if I believe this) and died protecting someone. Now that a second detractor to DT Master has risen up (though I want to see if this is a fair way to paint Sotty), the case deserves another look from that angle.

Too townie?

The way I have been playing lately is consider everyone a suspect and only clear them when I have an "aha!" moment of believing they are town. While Goat hasn't done anything really scummy in my eyes yet, I can't say I've had that aha! moment either. I think a reread of the game with the flip knowledge we already have should be enlightening though.

[fuzzylightning]

Vote: Sensfan

He hasn't done anything in this game outside of vote for Cobalt with extreme tunneling and 2 completely unexplained votes on saberwolf. I am no longer getting any town vibes from Sensfan as it just seemed like he picked a target and wasn't going to look at anything else in this game.

DTM seems to know a lot about the flavor of this game, and I think he might be using it to his advantage to make himself seem more townie. I have to re-read him to see if there is more to that or if it is just a gut feeling.
.
I want whoever knows what happened to KMD's posts to come out and tell us what happened.

[saberwolf]

I'm sorry, but even though I would really love to lynch sensfan and have been pushing for it, I am slightly alarmed with how quick he's been BW with no other real scumhunting going on.

Fuzzy's yune has me thinking:

PRs are independant of alignment

it's a great claim for mafia, cause it plants seeds of mistrust, and so far we have yet to see a good or bad role come out of alignment.

I say lynch fuzzy, and see what he flips. If he flips scum we can all safely mass claim and now have to worry about PR alignments.

discuss

[saberwolf]

then again if anybody who hasnt revealed their voice of yune feels that it'd help town to reveal it now, feel free to share.

[Locke Lamora]

DTM: how does it make sense to claim anything now? If I reveal my result now, everyone else who has yet to claim will feel more comfortable about fakeclaiming. If I wait and we go through massclaim, all the players who have yet to claim will have to act more cautiously in case I have investigated them.

Saber: you want to lynch Fuzzy because of his voice of Yune and then massclaim tomorrow? What's your theory if Fuzzy flips town?

[Vi]

My uncle... Er, my king also told me about you. "Observe Ike and learn his skills. Then you shall become even stronger."

Vote Count:

SensFan (L-3) ~ VP Baltar, fuzzylightning

Not Voting:

saberwolf, DTMaster,

fuzzylightning,

Kmd4390, Locke Lamora, SensFan, Goatrevolt

-Prodding SensFan...

--With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
--Deadline is Thursday, November 5 2009.

(5 days left)

Post Count:

saberwolf - 25
DTMaster - 16
fuzzylightning - 17
Goatrevolt - 34
Kmd4390 - 38
Locke Lamora - 12
SensFan - 23
VP Baltar - 37

People who are eligible for an inactivity modkill:

SensFan

[Locke Lamora]

I've taken a look back over SensFan's posts. Here's a brief summary of their content:

Posts 1-19: Lynch Cobalt/speculation over third party win condition
Posts 20-22: Attack on Saber (for his attack on Sens and acceptance of the Cobalt claim) and subsequent vote (twice)
Posts 23-25: Lynch Cobalt

I'm happy to lynch Sens but if we're going to do massclaim, I'll wait for that before I vote. DTM's attempt to get me to reveal my result early has also set alarm bells ringing in my head with a team featuring Sens/DTM looking very possible to me right now.

[DTMaster]

@LL

I said

if you find obv scum then tell us.

I don't find anything wrong here since you claimed flavour cop. If someone false claims and you catch them, then they are scum. Again I leave the choice up to you since this is just like an investigation. It shouldn't matter if someone fake claims or not in a MC or later since you can confirm the truth. In fact if someone fake claims here and you catch them then bonus points for the town!

Explain the error in my thinking if it's that bad since I don't see it.

@KMD
1. I'll be waiting. Sens' HP mafia link was informative and was unexpected :S.

2. I'm reading: day 1 bandwagon argument almost + lynching scummy character arguments. But I still dislike the bandwagon issue here, especially with the vote hop.

Plus you switched between the sabre wagon and DDD wagon. I mentioned this in my ISO 9. The cobalt wagon was there in day 1 (and went to lynch day 2) but it was a non issue at the end of day 1. So to me the sabre/DDD vote hope reads as opportunistic rather then lynching potential bandwagons. I want to confirm this with your posts but.... bleah. I'll look at this from another angle to see if it's conformable.

3. Yes a VC analysis is best done on the later days when we actually had data. But what about post analysis or something like that? (I hate the dumb post deletion. Makes analysis that much harder)

@VP
I'll await your responses then.

@Fuzzy
A good wiki research makes you an instant expert. I just happened to play Path of Radiance (which is partially why I chose to join this game). If you think of this: anyone who doesn't fit in the flavour of the game would be scum (elaborate fake claim = scummy argument). Read Pokemon Madness run by Grimmy in my wiki. Team Rocket Pokemon were the mafia, and we had a Digimon sk. I might be biased based on flavour analysis from that game though.

@Sabre
My Yune's message is obvious and conformable: the modkill from under activity (for some reason my PM says over activity but I think that's a typo) so we should post ~ once a day. Not really helpful. :S

Also Fuzzy claimed Rafiel (the heron character blah) and is the person giving the town posts. It kind of makes no sense to claim this (or fake claim this role) when we have ability confirmation in thread and then throw his Yune's message out there from a scum POV. It's too counter productive here.

[fuzzylightning]

Actually, I wouldn't believe that that would be a typo, that could in fact be the actual result when someone runs out of posts, as I believe someone else's voice of Yune said I wonder if the post counts really mean anything.