Mini 852- Crayola Catastrophe Game Over (Post 1158)

[Yankee]

I dont support lynching the cop either. I am really starting to get more Suspicious of EK. He seems to be changing playstyles and getting more aggitated, as well as posting more then he has any previously. For now he is my top suspect...

Unvote, Vote: elvis_knits

[Nachomamma8]

I don't think a cop should be asked to sacrifice himself. A cop, as long as he's either regular or insane, is a very powerful asset to town. I'm not willing to give up that upper hand.

If he's lying, he

may

be able to get one more ML out of us, but after that he's dead. I don't think scum would do that. It's not worth it to them.

But how long to you let him live? How many consecutive guilty results does he have to come up with until you get tired of him? Before the claim, Chibo was almost certainly going to be lynched; if he was scum, he was between a rock and a hard place. So, the best possible move would be to stall as long as possible, to survive a few more days and to mislead the town, possibly managing to draw suspicion off his scumbuddies as well. Not only can scumChibo take from us another townie life, but he can rob us of our precious, precious time. And also, let's not forget HOW close we are to LyLo. If there were three scum (which, with all the anti-town elements, I highly doubt), we are in MyLo, and one more mislynch would equal a scum victory. If there are 2, then a mislynch today and a mislynch tomorrow is a scum victory. We are much closer to the end than you seem to realize, Kirby.

TownChibo is really not that useful until his sanity is revealed. If he is paranoid and not NKed, then not only will we waste days and time trying to figure out his alignment, but we will lynch him in fear he is scum, but much later in the game and much closer to LyLo. The best possible thing that can happen is getting a scum result, and being sacrificed for it. As for your point of waiting to lynch him so he can get more results down the road... I'd rather not have Chibo in LyLo with me because of how suspicious this claim is. It's far more likely a TownChibo in LyLo will result in a Town loss than it is that he'll get 2 guilty results before LyLo gets here.

[Kirbyoshi]

Yankee: I was going to say the same thing about Socio. Why does it garner a vote on EK (who is, btw, a she), but not one whit of suspicion against Socio?

Nacho: Lynch him if you want, but I would give him at least one more Night. As I've stated, I don't think he's lying.

[elvis_knits]

Chibo, all you did was give your result, you didn't respond to the rest of my arguments:

I do not believe you Chibo.

We already had a Jester in the setup, which hurts the town. Having a paranoid or insane cop further hurts the town. It is possible for that to be balanced, but it would mean that the rest of the town would have to be a lot of useful power roles to balance that out, or a lower number of scum than usual. Yankeee claimed a one-shot vig, but a vig is a swingy role and can hurt or help town, it can't necessarily be counted in town's favor. I mean, if Yankee is telling the truth, look what happened, the vig killed town. That's not unusual. It's not always so helpful to town. I severely doubt that there is a paranoid or insane cop in this setup, it just puts the town at too much of a disadvantage, given what else we know about the roles we have.

Also, Chibo, if you're a cop, you didn't have to claim vanilla. You could have just said your suspicions have nothing to do with your role, or ignored the fishing. Or you could have claimed for real and hoped there is a doc in the setup to protect you. If you are a cop, lying was the absolute worst thing you could have done, because it has destroyed your credibility, and I have trouble believing you thought it was necessary or a good idea.

Also, hiding your result is not a good idea either. It only helps scum. We are obviously not going to lynch your result, since a guilty from you either means the person is really innocent (if you're insane) or the person is either (if you're paranoid). But, if you get lynched/NKed and flip "insane cop," then we REALLY need to know your result, and if you hide it from us, we lose a potential confirmed innocent. There really is no pro-town reason for hiding it from us. Hiding only helps the scum. Yet another reason I think you are making all this up.

TL;DR:

1)Insane or paranoid cop doesn't make sense in this setup given that we already had a jester which hurts the town.

2)Why did you claim vanilla yesterday? You did not have to claim vanilla. IF you claimed anything, you should have claimed your real role.

3)What was your reasoning for wanting to keep your result a secret? How did you think it would help the town?

Basically, I still don't believe chibo, and he needs to atleast answer my concerns before I will think about unvoting him. For the people that believe him... WHY do you believe him?

I am really uncomfortable leaving chibo alive at this point because he'll probably draw the doc protect if we have one. And since I don't believe he really is a cop, that totally sucks for us. The doc, if we have one, will be protecting a scum. That makes me

[elvis_knits]

I dont support lynching the cop either. I am really starting to get more Suspicious of EK. He seems to be changing playstyles and getting more aggitated, as well as posting more then he has any previously. For now he is my top suspect...

Unvote, Vote: elvis_knits

I'm getting more aggitated because people are not using their brains. I am normally an aggressive player when I believe something strongly. Your argument is stupid. You should argue with my reasoning, not just that I am "aggitated." You continually rolefish and resort to adhom attacks instead of arguing your point. Which makes me think you can't argue your point. Because you don't have one. Did you ever make your case on kirby? I don't think so! You attack me for asking you to make one, then move on to something else. What is your case on me? I'm posting more and seem aggitated? You're right, I am aggitated and posting more -- BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE WHAT IS HAPPENING.

Also, my other games ended, and this is my only game at the moment. Muppets ended, /invitational4 ended.

[Kirbyoshi]

Not only that, Yank, but is posting more really a bad thing? If EK's town, then town gets more information and better analyses, because EK is really a smart player. If EK is scum, it gives her more chances to slip up. I fail to see the downside. Also, people SHOULD post more as the game progresses, to keep the post count up, because we have fewer players.

I would not have said this yesterDay, but Yankee and Socio could very well be scumbuddies. However, I'm not moving my vote until Jahudo posts something substantial.

[elvis_knits]

Yankee and Socio could very well be scumbuddies.

Why do you think that?

[Yankee]

Ok, seriously EK? I dont post a case on Kirby and you freak out on me like you are yelling at me for not posting a case, then Kirby accuses me with no case whatsoever (i at least had explained why i was suspicious of him) and you simply ask "Why do you think that?". You have been Kirby's buddy all game. If Kirby or Elvis flips scum then i strongly believe the other is another scum, just look at how they interact with each other thru the game.

[Yankee]

ugh, I must be retarded to never remember to use my color....

[elvis_knits]

Ok, seriously EK? I dont post a case on Kirby and you freak out on me like you are yelling at me for not posting a case, then Kirby accuses me with no case whatsoever (i at least had explained why i was suspicious of him) and you simply ask "Why do you think that?". You have been Kirby's buddy all game. If Kirby or Elvis flips scum then i strongly believe the other is another scum, just look at how they interact with each other thru the game

.

SRSLY.

I didn't freak out on kirby because he only expressed mild suspicion and isn't voting either of you. So, yes, I want to know why he thinks that but it's not worthy of a freak out yet. If I don't like his reasoning, I will tell him so. If it's scummy, I will tell him so.

You on the other hand, vote without having a case. Routinely. And you rolefish the hell out of everyone. And you come back at me with posts like the above... that are not a response to my last attack on you, but a completely different misdirection.

Respond to points against you and start making cases. You cannot just keep changing the subject. I asked you for a case on kirby and you didn't give it. You talked about how you think chibo is the cop and then you voted me for posting too much and being "aggitated."

So yeah, I'm going to keep coming at you when you provide no reasoning, or reasoning that I don't agree with and think is really scummy.

[Jahudo]

I'll have the whole game comments by tomorrow, but here's my day 1 comments now. I already saw the flips, because that's how I like to read when replacing into a game.

The reads run from most suspicious of to least suspicious of, but those may change in my next catch-up posts.


Josh Lyman: scummy
* Post 80 looks like a piggyback on the chamber wagon, which by itself is a valid reason to join the wagon, but he does not make an attempt to expand on the case that he’s giving more momentum to than previous votes. That makes the vote look more opportunistic.

* Post 171 Has a scummy and opportunistic adhom attack on charter, who isn’t in the game to defend himself so it just goes on the replacement who can’t defend against it.

* Post 210 Is another scummy adhom attack, this time on Zazier for his playstyle. It does nothing to try and explain alignment, but it just attack the player.


Budja: scummy
* Post 82 Calling an L-1 wagon L-2 concerns me. It shows he was looking close enough to the momentum of chamber’s wagon but not close enough at the individual votes. Maybe it was a misread, but there was still the intention to point out something without understanding it enough, so it looks disingenuous.

* Post 222 Caught me as IIOA (Information instead of Analysis). His opinions of Kirby and SOG are ambiguous. His piggyback on Sociopath’s post 116 doesn’t show conviction because he doesn’t expand on the why. He does explain his SOG opinion better in post 243.


SocioPath: some scummy / some townish
* I like post 77's analysis.

* Post 92 is full of emotive words that normally look fake to me, but based on his overall play I'm starting to think its a non-alignment playstyle tell.

* 105, second paragraph, looks like a strawman defense to me. Socio tries to invalidate my predecessor's vote on him by defending his play that happens after the case point, instead of the case point itself.

* 204 has a good point, but I don’t like where he extrapolates on the possibilities, which seems like guessing for the sake of guessing.


Pomegranate: neutral
* Pre-209 she was mostly out of the game from V/LA and she largely missed the chamber wagon and discussion. I don’t see the V/LA as an alignment-tell.

* Post 209 I feel the reads on Snow, Socio, Kirby, Chibo, Green, Manz, Nacho, Zazier, and Josh were IIOA and ambiguous. The reads on Budja and SOG did have some analysis and opinion. I can understand her coming back from V/LA and not having had the time to analyze posts, but she could have tried to explain some feelings more openly. She apparently had read the thread enough to know some of the events that happened.


ChiboSempai: townish
* Post 79 He voted chamber later on without expanding the case, so it could be opportunistic. I can understand his wanting to continue suspecting the player slot until/unless the replacement looks pro-town. It doesn’t look like a matter of the replacement having to speak for the original player, but rather being under pressure to look pro-town and be pro-town, which isn’t unfair if the player is town.

*Post 240 Has a balanced, reason-based approach to the sog case. He looks at other people’s suspicions for him and gives his own take.


Kirbyoshi: town
* Post 176 is a good vote by explaining why SOG looks scummy and why Kirby doesn’t think Zazie’s playstyle is scummy.

* Post 263 I disagree with, but can understand where he’s coming from.

-Nacho had made 8 posts prior to his vote on Josh. 6 of those posts had no content whatsoever, but indicated he was on V/LA. Posts 218 and 257 had good content.

-Josh had 11 posts before Nacho’s vote. 5 didn’t have content IMO (31, 39, 172, 195, 211), 1 piggyback vote on chamber without expanding the case, 1 unvote with only implied reasoning, and 4 others (170, 171, 210, 236) that IMO have less content than Nacho’s 2 posts.

Kirby has a valid point that Nacho hadn’t posted much and didn’t have much content in those posts. And I don’t think Kirby defended any lurkers or condemned them in this post, so I think he handled the matter in a pro-town fashion.


Nachomamma: town
* Post 218 I like these questions. He asks specific questions meant to get definitive stances from people, but he also tries to give his own opinion without giving them an out with what he might want a townie to answer. I think this is good scumhunting.

* Post 257 shows some good analysis and not just information. He looks at both sides of the sog wagon and some other causes for suspicion on sog like his aggressiveness to get a better understanding of why sog might act like he does. This shows me that Nacho is genuinely trying to get a sog read.

* His prodding vote on Josh looks appropriate, but maybe not executed as good as it could have been. I realize you can’t just tell someone you’re voting them as a prod to make content, but you can show their lack of content to post ratio upfront, or explain your stance better.

[Pomegranate]

If Chibo is scum, then he just got himself out of a tight spot way to easily. I agree with whet EK said about how it would be many anti-town roles, assuming we have three scum (I know we can't, as it's a themed game, but 3 is a usual number for 12 person game). If he's scum, he can make up results to clear his buddies (as an insane cop). If we lynch them, and they flip scum, he can say that maybe he's paranoid (or something). Plus, he lied yesterday for no good reason (he was never at L-1). LAL stands, except in extreme situations, and that's something this wasn't. I'm up for a lynch on Chibo, and that's why my vote is still there.

[SocioPath]

Jahudo's Day2 analysis will be amusing.
Day3 should be as well.

[Battousai]

Vote Count:

ChiboSempai (2)- elvis_knits, Pomegranate
Jahudo (2)- Nachomamma8, Kirbyoshi
Kirbyoshi (1)- SocioPath
elvis_knits (1)- Yankee

Not voting (2): ChiboSempai, GreenDude

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline is Nov 3!

[Kirbyoshi]

Jahudo brings up some...interesting points. Hafta go reread I think to figure out if I agree with them or not.

Waiting for the rest of his analysis.

[Jahudo]

Here’s my Day 2 comments.
Reads of scummy to town are based on Day 2 actions only. I’ll compile an average after I’m fully caught up.

Pomegranate - scum
* Post 333 has an ambiguous read on Josh. Pome feels more confident of Shanba’s wagon than she says, because she is critical of e_k’s post that wonders if Shanba is town. This is the start of an odd focus she has with e_k, which I find to be the most interesting part of Day 2 and I’ll try to explain further.

* Post 476 she gives an unreasoned scumlist after being prodded by e_k. She could easily backtrack from this scumlist, because she never places a value on the numbers or the spaces between them. Without those values, I am suspicious of this post.

* Post 484 She gives reasoning for her scumlist after a prodding from Nacho, but when I read it I thought they were e_k quotes. It feels like a lot of rehash from stances e_k has taken, and cases she has made. I’ll make some side-by-side comparisons with e_k, but I already think that Pome is piggybacking off her. I don’t think this makes e_k look scummy, but I am suspicious of Pome’s motives.

* Post 535 Her comment on Chibo’s trap is another echo of e_k (post 532). Pome doesn’t have the conviction to make a definitive stance on it, but she says enough to make it look scummy. I am suspicious that she is trying to add suspicion without making it come from her.

* Post 573 I feel is confirmation bias. She brushes off Shanba’s attempt to defend himself, and her words suggest she doesn’t want to hear him try to defend himself. She doesn’t explain why/how it could be a scum ploy from him. She wants to avoid having to analyize it until after he flips. All of this is scummy.


Nachomamma – some scummy, some townie
* Post 392 Where he suggests that Chibo’s confidence suggests more than VT. Regardless of whether he tried to or not, that wording is an odd way to suspect someone as scum, which he admits in post 409. It is odd because scum are not considered “More than vanilla townie”, as he wrote, but different than vanilla townie. You take a VT and add more to make a power role. So it plainly implies rolefishing. And Post 409 could be backtracking. Both posts are concerning and suspicious.

* Post 513 his reasoning for Budja looks like a piggyback off other people’s cases. It even feels like he’s aware of this, but I don’t see an attempt from him to take a different/closer look. However, he was prodded right before that post, so it likely could be a result of inactivity. I could see this post coming from town.

* Post 575 looks like a good, honest vote on Chibo. I think he took a fair but strong approach to Chibo’s tunnelvision by trying to get Chibo to talk about other possible suspects. Nacho is taking attention away from the townie Shanba, which looks town at that point in the game.


SocioPath – some scummy, but mostly town feeling
* Post 337 There’s a few lines at the end of the post that look like a chainsaw defense of Josh to attack Shanba. Either that or the comment is ill-placed next to the vote. Socio seems to suspect Shanba for his opinion on Josh by his reaction to Zazy’s posting style. Socio disagrees, but I do not see where Socio makes the case that this Shanba’s opinion is invalid, but rather different. Did you suspect Shanba for that opinion?

* Post 394 He just throws out the idea of bussing between Shanba and Chibo without A) saying if he believes it and/or B) he has posts to back it up. By just throwing it out there he’s adding suspicion to each person without reasoning. This looks suspicious.

* Post 515 and some others where he tries to get people to suspect him, and tries to explain why he’s acting this way. I think this is an indication of his playstyle, and not alignment. It doesn’t make sense for scum to try and gain attention like this.

* Post 564 Says he’d rather lynch unhelpful town than scum-hunting scum. I’m not sure if he defended this yet, but I read it as poor wording and nothing more. Scum wouldn’t say what he said, because it is so categorically wrong. I think he meant something else, but I’ll let him elaborate if he can.


ChiboSempai
* I only read a few Day 3 posts around where I joined, so I caught his claim but I don’t know the specifics of it. It affects about every post he made Day 2, but I can’t say whether I believe that claim until I get done reading the game.


Budja / Yankee – townish, but mostly inactive
* Budja had 5 posts over the course of 5 days. That isn’t grounds for lurking, and the timing of his replacement suggests it has nothing to do with the game but rather he had limited time like he said.

* Budja’s only pro-active scum-hunting post in Day 2 is 351 where he goes after Kirby. I think his vote looks honest because Kirby is a much harder target than Shanba, and he raises a valid point about Kirby’s post (that I don’t think is a tell after reading Kirby’s defense). But its still a townish looking post.

* Yankee has 13 posts in Day 2 but only 3-4 have content in them. His original vote on Shanba seems to only be about the hammer, which is a large part of the case, but he has nothing else to say about SB or Shanba’s play. I would have found this suspicious because in post 552 he looks like one of the least confident people on the wagon, but then on post 568 he unvotes based on one of Shanba’s posts.

* I’m not phased by Yankee’s “rolefish” because the fish had already been rolled by Nacho, so Yankee is just rehashing something that didn’t get anyone to claim cop in the first place.


Kirbyoshi - townish
* Post 398 is ambiguous and continues Socio’s bussing theory without elaborating / restating more why Shanba and Chibo are continuing to act “uber scummy”. I can’t tell from his posts what about Shanba’s posts are scummy, and he only mentioned Chibo over the rolefishing. The post could just be an off-hand remark, like conversational, but it looks like it can turn into an unreasoned scum-pairing.

* Post 514 has some opinions on alignments but they feel ambiguous reads except for Socio. I really can’t figure out why he feels the way he does about these people, but the fact that he’s making reads without being pressured to is a pro-town thing.

* Post 678 Looks like a pro-active post right before deadline that looked like it took time and researching to evaluate Zazier posts. He switches back to Shanba to make sure it got through over Yankee’s lynch I’m guessing, but as scum he wouldn’t have had to leave the Shanba wagon in the first place. And Zazier got killed over night, so it couldn’t be starting the ball rolling on a Day 3 lynch. So to me this looks like someone who is honestly trying to determine if Zazier’s spamming is an alignment tell in this game.


elvis_knits - town
* Post 335 shows patience in looking at both sides of the Shanba argument when a quick and easy policy lynch could have been orchestrated. I have the hindsight to know Shanba’s alignment, but I do like that she isn’t trying to rush the day even if she she still liked her chances on a Shanba-scum throughout the day.

* Post 373 Is full of content and alignment-tell stances. More analysis than information, and talks about each of the players. So this is a pro-town post. TBH, I’m curious to why greendude was listed under town, and not pointed out as a lurker. She does say that the town list are people who “Haven’t pinged the scumdar”, so maybe that’s it.

* Post 480 Looks like DGB hacked into her account for a post. What I mean is that it looks uncharacteristic of the rest of her posts and playstyle. I disagree with her letting Pome off the hook (as I explained in the Pome section), but e_k had been making it clear she wanted to move her vote to Budja for a while so there wasn’t much pressure to release in this instance. I don’t think this is scummy of e_k. And I certainly don’t believe it makes Pome and e_k look like scumbuddies like Zazier said. I believe e_k would have taken the easier route and kept pressure / distanced Pome until the list had reasoning (which would have been easy as I explained in the Pome section). This also makes sense if e_k is scum and Pome is town, so in any case I think this is a sign of e_k towniness.

[Jahudo]

Just so you all know, I am not a drunk. That flavor probably began in pregame with the line "I was downing some bazzers at the battle cruiser."

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Sociopath

Obviously, Jahudo is making an effort to participate, as revealed by his analysis of Day 1 and Day 2, so I am unvoting. I am voting for Socio because of his failure to say anything about the analysis whatsoever; instead, he basically stated that is was "interesting", and said that he'd post something of substance later.
The vote goes to Sociopath as opposed to Kirby because of earlier suspicions I had on Socio, but I think it is just as suspicious for Kirby to do the same thing. Town points to Pome for actually posting something on the analysis instead of just acting like she's going to do something.

[quote="Jahudo]

* Post 392 Where he suggests that Chibo’s confidence suggests more than VT. Regardless of whether he tried to or not, that wording is an odd way to suspect someone as scum, which he admits in post 409. It is odd because scum are not considered “More than vanilla townie”, as he wrote, but different than vanilla townie. You take a VT and add more to make a power role. So it plainly implies rolefishing. And Post 409 could be backtracking. Both posts are concerning and suspicious.

[/quote]

Based on Chibo's play thus far and my own uncertainty on Shanba's alignment, it seemed to me that Chibo was a cop who had gotten a guilty result on someone (which he was, by the way). I also felt that he was possibly trying to make it seem that way so he could get the lynch and not have to take the responsibility of it if Shanba appeared town. So, I thought it important for Chibo to claim cop at that point only if he got a guilty result, so we could trade a cop for a scum, which, in my opinion, is a good trade. I did not want ChiboScum to get away with saying he was overconfident later.

* Post 513 his reasoning for Budja looks like a piggyback off other people’s cases. It even feels like he’s aware of this, but I don’t see an attempt from him to take a different/closer look. However, he was prodded right before that post, so it likely could be a result of inactivity. I could see this post coming from town.

At that point, I was quite busy, and I really didn't have any solid reads at the time. It wasn't a very pro-town mood, but I didn't want to be replaced, and I didn't really know what to post at the time.

[Nachomamma8]

Messed up the tags, but you get the idea.

[Gaspar]

I liked Jahudo's Day 2 comments much more than the day 1 comments. But maybe I didn't like the Day 1 comments because we've learned so much more since then that the reads seemed sort of "off."

I am inclined to agree with him that Pome is scummy. That was my original take on Pome but I backed off when she gave me the scumlist that I liked. Of course it's possible she gave me a scumlist that she knew I would like... I knew that at the time. I think I was just ready to pressure someone else, and didn't feel enough support to get anything more out of Pome. Nobody really seemed to agree with me about her (except zazie later), and I figured I could be wrong on her.

Another thing that had me conflicted about Pome was that zazie brought up twilight mafia, jogging my memory because I played that game with her (and she was town). The playstyle was actually similar, which made me think Pome is town here too. Zazie disagreed though, I think. Basically, I'm not sure how much weight I want to put on this meta read of her since I believe the playstyle (unhelpful, laid-back) is anti-town.

What I have the most problem with about Pome is that she gets on EVERY wagon. I mean, I didn't double-check this, but I noticed how she put the L-1 on Chibo, with no other reasoning than "I agree." WTF is that? I get the feeling she is not thinking for herself there. She's just voting anywhere that will get us closer to a lynch. Which is what scum want to do.

Also, first thing today she mentioned me as having the biggest reason to kill zazie, implying that I am scum. Zazie was attacking me at the end of the day, but zazie was VOTING Pome for a loooooong time and attacking Pome much more. She had to know that. So bringing my name up instead was just... fishy to me. It's WIFOM anyway, so it just seemed to me like maybe she wanted to get out in front of anyone accusing HER of NKing zazie. Otherwise, I just don't even know why she would bring it up. I mean,

I

didn't even remember that zazie called me scum end of yesterday until she said that. So it surprises me that she would remember, when the most memorable thing is how hard he attacked Pome.

I guess the problem with that theory is that yankee says he's the vig and that he killed zazie.

It's possible that scum also NKed zazie, or that yankee is scum. Which is not that hard for me to believe...

Anyway, I still want more explanation and participation from Chibo. He was supposedly laying low today since he was unsure of his sanity and didn't want to claim, etc. Well, now the cat is out of the bag, so I'd like to see him participating and maybe even *gasp* scumhunting.

I also have a problem with Yankee. He doesn't make cases, and his "reasons" are scummy reasons. Like "you're agitated!" Being upset, aggitated, defensive, is not a scum tell! He's never really responded to any of my points against him. He just says "oh look how much you're posting!" which is irrelevant and not an answer to any argument. I also think he's a rolefisher even though nobody seems to agree.

Oh, also I just thought of something tech. Yankee's role is totally unprovable! Usually having a second kill at night would prove the existence of a vig/sk/second killing role. But we only had one last night, and now he's out of bullets. So basically, we'll never know! How convenient!

Anyway, those are my top three scum pics.

Chibo
Pome
Yankee

[elvis_knits]

Sorry... that was me on alt.

I'm reposting so that it's easier to find, also so

MOD

can delete if he wants.

I liked Jahudo's Day 2 comments much more than the day 1 comments. But maybe I didn't like the Day 1 comments because we've learned so much more since then that the reads seemed sort of "off."

I am inclined to agree with him that Pome is scummy. That was my original take on Pome but I backed off when she gave me the scumlist that I liked. Of course it's possible she gave me a scumlist that she knew I would like... I knew that at the time. I think I was just ready to pressure someone else, and didn't feel enough support to get anything more out of Pome. Nobody really seemed to agree with me about her (except zazie later), and I figured I could be wrong on her.

Another thing that had me conflicted about Pome was that zazie brought up twilight mafia, jogging my memory because I played that game with her (and she was town). The playstyle was actually similar, which made me think Pome is town here too. Zazie disagreed though, I think. Basically, I'm not sure how much weight I want to put on this meta read of her since I believe the playstyle (unhelpful, laid-back) is anti-town.

What I have the most problem with about Pome is that she gets on EVERY wagon. I mean, I didn't double-check this, but I noticed how she put the L-1 on Chibo, with no other reasoning than "I agree." WTF is that? I get the feeling she is not thinking for herself there. She's just voting anywhere that will get us closer to a lynch. Which is what scum want to do.

Also, first thing today she mentioned me as having the biggest reason to kill zazie, implying that I am scum. Zazie was attacking me at the end of the day, but zazie was VOTING Pome for a loooooong time and attacking Pome much more. She had to know that. So bringing my name up instead was just... fishy to me. It's WIFOM anyway, so it just seemed to me like maybe she wanted to get out in front of anyone accusing HER of NKing zazie. Otherwise, I just don't even know why she would bring it up. I mean, I didn't even remember that zazie called me scum end of yesterday until she said that. So it surprises me that she would remember, when the most memorable thing is how hard he attacked Pome.

I guess the problem with that theory is that yankee says he's the vig and that he killed zazie.

It's possible that scum also NKed zazie, or that yankee is scum. Which is not that hard for me to believe...

Anyway, I still want more explanation and participation from Chibo. He was supposedly laying low today since he was unsure of his sanity and didn't want to claim, etc. Well, now the cat is out of the bag, so I'd like to see him participating and maybe even *gasp* scumhunting.

I also have a problem with Yankee. He doesn't make cases, and his "reasons" are scummy reasons. Like "you're agitated!" Being upset, aggitated, defensive, is not a scum tell! He's never really responded to any of my points against him. He just says "oh look how much you're posting!" which is irrelevant and not an answer to any argument. I also think he's a rolefisher even though nobody seems to agree.

Oh, also I just thought of something tech. Yankee's role is totally unprovable! Usually having a second kill at night would prove the existence of a vig/sk/second killing role. But we only had one last night, and now he's out of bullets. So basically, we'll never know! How convenient!

Anyway, those are my top three scum pics.

Chibo
Pome
Yankee

[Nachomamma8]

EK brings up a pretty good point about Yankee's unprovable role, which I find more suspicious based on the timing of it all. At that point, Chibo was under fire and Yankee was nowhere close to being lynched. So, instead of laying low and looking for rolefishers, he decided to claim and broadcast that we have a pro-town power role that can stop mafia kills, giving no one but the scum knowledge of it (if Yankee is town, the scum knows for sure. if Yankee is scum, no one knows for sure), and basically making him look more townish.

I don't remember Pome saying anything about EK having the most reasons to kill Zazie... I'll check that in a few.

[Jahudo]

I thought it important for Chibo to claim cop at that point only if he got a guilty result, so we could trade a cop for a scum, which, in my opinion, is a good trade.

Why did/do you think a cop with a guilty would be a good trade and worth doing? Early day 2 you pointed out the risk of a cop with a guilty, because he could be insane:

Do you think cop should claim with guilty no matter what? I ask merely for information.

No. The cop could be insane, there could be far too many scum for it to matter... Now, in a open game setup (confirmed sanity) with less than 15 players, then I'd say yes, every time. Otherwise, it's basically personal discretion.

So did you still want a cop with a guilty to claim even though, as you pointed out, he could be insane?

@Chibo: I'm curious if you read Nacho's post about an insane cop, and if you thought anything of it at the time.

To me, Nacho seemed to be genuinely suspicious of Chibo, more than just pressuring him to backup his confidence in Shanba's guiltyness as if Chibo was a townie:

So you would recommend to the town to lynch you immediately if Shanba turns up pro-town, right? If not, why not. Being that confident in scum or not-scum suggests something more than just a vanilla townie.

Why do you think that chibo's telling the truth? And that was meant to imply scum, not power role...

Doesn't that above quote imply that you were pressuring him as if you thought he was scum? If not, what was you goal of saying "imply scum, not power role..."?

[Nachomamma8]

Well, because of how aggressive Chibo was acting, I thought his sanity had been verified. And I think a cop with a guilty is good to trade with scum and worth doing because it is always possible he can be NKed during the night. I would rather have one scum dead and one cop dead as opposed to one cop that knows who a mafioso dead. It's all about rather being safe but sorry.

I DO want a cop with a guilty to claim if he believes that his result is legit. Chibo obviously believed his result was legit based on his insane tunneling, so it would be better to claim than keep it a secret.

And I was suspicious of Chibo at the time, but I also felt that it was possible that he was the cop and had a reason to be so suspicious about Shanba because the reasons he was coming up with weren't exactly the best, or the most convincing.

Yes, it does imply that I was pressuring as if he was scum.

[ChiboSempai]

Which post, the one you quoted?

Honestly it was sort of lame for me to act so brash day 2, but I completely forgot about the chances of an insane or paranoid cop, I've never come across them even once in every mafia game I've played.

As for the comment about the unlikliness of there being a paranoid/insane cop with a Jester in the game... It's not like the Jester doesn't hurt just the town directly, it also hurts the mafia. I don't see why both can't coexist.