Newbie 843 (Game Over)

[manho]

Why did you claim now?????

as i found my argument is actually based on the fact that i'm the doctor.

[Ojanen]

...I can't believe I'm saying this, I think claiming doc now was a really bad move, but I think manho is town. I mean the scum motivation for that claim would seem really obscure.
Mate, with all respect, for your next game, try to think through your arguments once before you post, you contradict yourself an awful lot. And you just claimed doc essentially to get a townie lynched.

BUT if it's a crazy gambit, it would seem to me anyone who wishes to counterclaim should probably do so in their next post.
We have deadline on Wednesday so people need to get there asses here more often!

Gotta think a sec now.

[Ojanen]

@mod: prod Meji fan please.

---Disclaimer: most of this is based on the assumption that no one will come out with a counterclaim. If someone does, you can disregard this. ---

I think some of the arguments used against me have been clearly so terrible, and I had such a quick wagon in the beginning of D2 which has stayed in place except for tubby that there's almost GOT to be some scum there.
manho seems town, Soyasushi seems town, so based on that and a quick iso scan,

FoS Meji

. More on the iso-scan later.

I believe the scum is in Zach, tubby, Meji.
Soya, Kyiv, Cookie or recently manho are much much much less likely.
Gonna be hard to get traction for cases against these people, but I'll try to find the correct scum and show you why I think so. I think we absolutely must lynch either scum or me today, because I can't be the townie vote magnet in lylo. Also, if you lynch me and see my town flip, you've gotta take my word for Cookie scum being less likely.
If we do end up lynching me, if someone hammers significantly before deadline and before I have said what I want to say, they are incredibly scummy.

[EtherealCookie]

No, I really can't understand Tubby's posts, and I'm not sulking, I'm telling them to make sense.

[manho]

we need everyone else to speak more, and should comment on ojanen's case on me: is it scum tunneling or just town making a valid case.

[Zachrulez]

What do you think about the fact that Ojanen has suddenly backed off of you after your doc claim Manho?

As far as my stance on the issue, unless there is a counterclaim, I think it's best to take the claim at face value. That also makes it highly likely that Soyasushi is town.

[tubby216]

wow just wow,

ok then lets lynch cookie please

[Ojanen]

@Tubby: do you find it likely I am scum?
Why is Cookie scum?

@Zach: Recent occurences of the non-committance that bothers me:

I'd like everyone to comment on my case on manho.
I'd also like Zach to elaborate why he said earlier he had a townread on manho.

When did I say I had a town read on manho?

So I did make a mistake, Zach said he doesn't have a problem with manho earlier. But Zach doesn't let out any sign of actually replying whether he finds manho scummy or not, despite my explicit request.

What do you think about the fact that Ojanen has suddenly backed off of you after your doc claim Manho?
As far as my stance on the issue, unless there is a counterclaim, I think it's best to take the claim at face value. That also makes it highly likely that Soyasushi is town.

manho asked others to comment on my case on him/me.
Zach didn't take a stance, instead asked manho a question on me. And implies believing manho town, so the question from manho isn't an attempt to question a scum candidate,
What do YOU think, Zach, about me?

[Ojanen]

But anyway I need to reread some of the game after recent occurences. Gimme a sec.

[EtherealCookie]

Lol.
Very desperate to lynch me because I know you're scum, huh, Tubby?

[Ojanen]

@Zach: Recent occurences of the non-committance that bothers me:

I'd like everyone to comment on my case on manho.
I'd also like Zach to elaborate why he said earlier he had a townread on manho.

When did I say I had a town read on manho?

So I did make a mistake, Zach said he doesn't have a problem with manho earlier. But Zach doesn't let out any sign of actually replying whether he finds manho scummy or not, despite my explicit request.

Hey! I didn't even make a mistake, Zach did say

I don't find you[tubby] or manho suspicious at all, so I'm not really seeing either of you as scum, together or otherwise.

so that reaction of his was even poorer!

I reskimmed some of the game... guys, Cookie isn't scum. He is not.
Just look at his proactiveness standing out throughout, and I know he's getting hell for defending a townie. Ugh, this is a mess.
And for the people who are saying he is scum defending town, what on earth would be the motive to do it so forcefully? He has gotten sooo much heat just because of the defence that people actually want to lynch him instead of me, do you find that a good tell for scum who's basic nature is to hide?
Kyiv is not scum. Posts ooze town. Previous incarnation was ok too.
Soya&Manho are town I believe from claim.

The scum is inside Zach, Meji and Tubby.
My current gut somewhat leans towards Zach and Meji, which is hard to sell to you argh. Substance coming soon.

[Zachrulez]

@Tubby: do you find it likely I am scum?
Why is Cookie scum?

@Zach: Recent occurences of the non-committance that bothers me:

I'd like everyone to comment on my case on manho.
I'd also like Zach to elaborate why he said earlier he had a townread on manho.

When did I say I had a town read on manho?

So I did make a mistake, Zach said he doesn't have a problem with manho earlier. But Zach doesn't let out any sign of actually replying whether he finds manho scummy or not, despite my explicit request.

Yes a mistake. A mistake that kinda sorta misrepresented my stated position on manho.

For the record, no I did not really find him that scummy prior to your case. No I hadn't gotten around to really giving your case on him a good look over before he claimed doc.

What do you think about the fact that Ojanen has suddenly backed off of you after your doc claim Manho?
As far as my stance on the issue, unless there is a counterclaim, I think it's best to take the claim at face value. That also makes it highly likely that Soyasushi is town.

manho asked others to comment on my case on him/me.
Zach didn't take a stance, instead asked manho a question on me. And implies believing manho town, so the question from manho isn't an attempt to question a scum candidate,
What do YOU think, Zach, about me?

Well look at it simply from the point of view I am seeing it from right now. You made this big case on Manho, that you wanted everyone to comment on. You pushed this whole agenda of saying that you felt Manho was the best lynch, even using him asking about the deadline as some indication that he's even scummy.

Then he claims doc.

And everything changes.

Clearly scum's goal is to make cases against townies that look good enough on the surface but in reality are just total crap.

So tell me what I should think. Was your whole case just an honest mistake now, or should I think that maybe you have a more sinister intention beneath the surface of what you are posting?

[Zachrulez]

@Zach: Recent occurences of the non-committance that bothers me:

I'd like everyone to comment on my case on manho.
I'd also like Zach to elaborate why he said earlier he had a townread on manho.

When did I say I had a town read on manho?

So I did make a mistake, Zach said he doesn't have a problem with manho earlier. But Zach doesn't let out any sign of actually replying whether he finds manho scummy or not, despite my explicit request.

Hey! I didn't even make a mistake, Zach did say

I don't find you[tubby] or manho suspicious at all, so I'm not really seeing either of you as scum, together or otherwise.

so that reaction of his was even poorer!

No... just... no.

I can concede that I might have said that. (Which was the purpose of asking when I said that in the first place.) But you can't sit there and act like that makes me look worse when you yourself didn't do your own homework on the subject.

[Ojanen]

Yes a mistake. A mistake that kinda sorta misrepresented my stated position on manho.

I'm sorry you failed at simulposting here.
Interesting that you didn't remember your position on manho though.

No... just... no.
I can concede that I might have said that. (Which was the purpose of asking when I said that in the first place.) But you can't sit there and act like that makes me look worse when you yourself didn't do your own homework on the subject.

I DID do my homework. I was correct at first, but then didn't find it again, must have overlooked.
Besides, why is it my homework to remember when you stated a townread on manho? I just generally asked why you had one. You are as responsible to remember when you had a townread as I am.

Well look at it simply from the point of view I am seeing it from right now. You made this big case on Manho, that you wanted everyone to comment on. You pushed this whole agenda of saying that you felt Manho was the best lynch, even using him asking about the deadline as some indication that he's even scummy.

Then he claims doc.

And everything changes.

Clearly scum's goal is to make cases against townies that look good enough on the surface but in reality are just total crap.

So tell me what I should think. Was your whole case just an honest mistake now, or should I think that maybe you have a more sinister intention beneath the surface of what you are posting?

Explain how is me changing my mind based on a claim is scummy?
Manho wasn't under intense pressure - only 2 votes - if he's scum a counterclaim would have destroyed him for no reason.
Obviously I failed at identifying scum although I was getting really sure - that's where the tunneling was starting to come from. And I lost a bunch of scumhunting credibility. But continuing to push the case after a claim that would be nonsensical play from scum, that would be far more scummy than bluntly saying I must have been wrong and moving on. Why do you disagree?

Also, if you think my case was crap, you should state why by showing the faulty arguments, not just hinting so and saying you haven't inspected it.

[Ojanen]

Oops, the last quote in previous post is also supposed to be from Zach.

[Zachrulez]

Yes a mistake. A mistake that kinda sorta misrepresented my stated position on manho.

I'm sorry you failed at simulposting here.
Interesting that you didn't remember your position on manho though.

Yeah, I forgot explicitly saying I thought he was town. So what? How long ago did I actually say that?

No... just... no.
I can concede that I might have said that. (Which was the purpose of asking when I said that in the first place.) But you can't sit there and act like that makes me look worse when you yourself didn't do your own homework on the subject.

I DID do my homework. I was correct at first, but then didn't find it again, must have overlooked.
Besides, why is it my homework to remember when you stated a townread on manho? I just generally asked why you had one. You are as responsible to remember when you had a townread as I am.

Why exactly are you interested in why I think he's town? Do you want to know if my arguments were valid enough to justify him being town in order to draw a scum nk toward him? I don't really get it.

Well look at it simply from the point of view I am seeing it from right now. You made this big case on Manho, that you wanted everyone to comment on. You pushed this whole agenda of saying that you felt Manho was the best lynch, even using him asking about the deadline as some indication that he's even scummy.

Then he claims doc.

And everything changes.

Clearly scum's goal is to make cases against townies that look good enough on the surface but in reality are just total crap.

So tell me what I should think. Was your whole case just an honest mistake now, or should I think that maybe you have a more sinister intention beneath the surface of what you are posting?

Explain how is me changing my mind based on a claim is scummy?
Manho wasn't under intense pressure - only 2 votes - if he's scum a counterclaim would have destroyed him for no reason.
Obviously I failed at identifying scum although I was getting really sure - that's where the tunneling was starting to come from. And I lost a bunch of scumhunting credibility. But continuing to push the case after a claim that would be nonsensical play from scum, that would be far more scummy than bluntly saying I must have been wrong and moving on. Why do you disagree?

Also, if you think my case was crap, you should state why by showing the faulty arguments, not just hinting so and saying you haven't inspected it.

I wasn't sure what to think of it because I hadn't had time to give it a look. You have to admit though that your case in light of Manho's claim and your sudden belief that he's town does tend to cast a shadow on you.

I'll try to get a look at your case when I have some time. (Obviously I wasn't expecting the claim to happen and it's grabbed all the attention from all the things I was planning to do regarding this game)

I really should cut down the number of games I play at once, this story feels like a broken record.

[Ojanen]

Yeah, I forgot explicitly saying I thought he was town. So what? How long ago did I actually say that?

So you shouldn't make jibes at me misrepresenting you. Last week Thursday.

Why exactly are you interested in why I think he's town? Do you want to know if my arguments were valid enough to justify him being town in order to draw a scum nk toward him? I don't really get it.

What? I don't care about the explanation of the townread anymore, I don't suspect him anymore, I don't think there's a link between you anymore. You're attacking me based on "not doing my homework" when I did do it and I'm saying it's not valid, so I'm replying.

I wasn't sure what to think of it because I hadn't had time to give it a look. You have to admit though that your case in light of Manho's claim and your sudden belief that he's town does tend to cast a shadow on you.
I'll try to get a look at your case when I have some time. (Obviously I wasn't expecting the claim to happen and it's grabbed all the attention from all the things I was planning to do regarding this game)
I really should cut down the number of games I play at once, this story feels like a broken record.

I

do not

admit that my sudden change of opinion casts shadow on me. You're gonna have to come up with a counterargument to my previous one if you think it does.
I think the fact that I apparently went after a town player does cast shadow on me, but then town players are also mistaken all the time. All of the people on the lynch wagon yesterday also were mistaken, and I don't see why my error is graver.
What do you mean by "this story"?

[Zachrulez]

What do you mean by "this story"?

I play too many games and don't give them the attention they deserve.

I get down to a few and get kinda bored because not enough is happening and sign up for more.

It's a vicious cycle.

[Kyiv]

Urgh. I don't think I buy the claim. There seems to be too many ulterior motives surrounding the claim, especially if you take the claim into context.

@ojanen: bjl is implying the doctor should claim. proof? yes, i am the doctor and i was tempted to claim after bjl's posts. i protected soyasushi last night.

That's not really proof. If you are scum, then that's just another one of your poorly built arguments. I can't imagine a seasoned player being tempted to claim after a "congratulating the doctor" comment, as you so put it.

But there's no reason not to keep looking for now, and get back to you later, I guess.

Unvote

With that said, Meji mentioned s/he would be moving this weekend, so I wouldn't expect a response any time soon... which is really unfortunate.[/b]

[Ojanen]

Right. As long as you play this deadlined game now though and decide whether my manho case was crap or not.

[Ojanen]

Ugh, that was to Zach, not Kyiv. Sorry for all the edit spam.

[tubby216]

@ojanen,

i thought Bjl was scummy you however have posted very protown, However this doesnot excuse cookies defense of your player slot. wich i found to truly scummy wich is why i would like cookie lynched.

[EtherealCookie]

God damn, Ojanen just said my defense is not scummy, and brought up points as to why it's not. You, on the other hand, come and say it's scummy, and bring up absolutely no points at all.

[tubby216]

God damn, Ojanen just said my defense is not scummy, and brought up points as to why it's not. You, on the other hand, come and say it's scummy, and bring up absolutely no points at all.

so?

my opinion is different that Ojanens big deal.

[EtherealCookie]

No, that has nothing to do with it.
The fact is, he actually brings up points, you don't.