Perfectionist Mafia - Resultas

[saberwolf]

Dramonic remove that vote. And on that how do we know there's not four mafiaso's, read the role pm's. But there is chance of a traitor.

@Saber. I said i got no results. This being because i

delibrately took no action last night.

I was fully expecting to be roleblocked.

You sound as if your honestly expecting results with a potential roleblocker in the house do you seriously think i would get results?

See post I said i had planned to investigate Wicked pre being outted. I at no point said i had changed my mind on carrying out an investigation and hoped a roleblocker would target me. Thus simply stating "no result" today.

I do hope this explains my actions (or thereof lack of) last night.

Mufasa's claim is true.

I believe him wholly innocent in light of no counterclaim and if people are solely basing their vote on Mufasa as mafia being only able to take one kill and one action then this point is now invalid.

bolded part rubs me the wrong way. There's no way for you to know this.

also, there can't be a traitor. We lynched GF before he got a chance to recruit.

[Snow White]

Re. The traitor. There's an option of the traitor being a mafia back up... so when BC was lynched, its possible that the mafia Godfather role was attributed to the traitor. No? Not certifiably so, its only a possiblity but its still worth thinking about.

I believe Mufasa's claim. There is no CC and if his aim was redirected then he'd be foolish to say so when i came out and said i had recieved no results. Almost suicidal would you not say?

[saberwolf]

Re. The traitor. There's an option of the traitor being a mafia back up... so when BC was lynched, its possible that the mafia Godfather role was attributed to the traitor. No? Not certifiably so, its only a possiblity but its still worth thinking about.

I believe Mufasa's claim. There is no CC and if his aim was redirected then he'd be foolish to say so when i came out and said i had recieved no results. Almost suicidal would you not say?

its called Mufasa being stupid and slipping up.

as for the back up role i'm pretty sure you need to be turned before you can be back-up, so I don't think we need to worry about that.

[FaerieLord]

I already explained, SW, that I temporarely removed him from my potential-scum-list since BC was voting him. Also, I don't like how FL immediately assumes the idea of SW being roleblocked is absolutely absurd... and, hmm, interesting that he chooses to attack SW on that front right off the bat.

How is it interesting that I'm attacking SW? I've been doing it throughout.

Also, I didn't say there couldn't be a role blocker but she made it seem like a big deal that I was expecting a result of some sort from her.
Hence my cynical comment.

Even "I was blocked" is a result. Saying nothing though, is not a result.

@Saber. I said i got no results. This being because i delibrately took no action last night.

Then why did you say no result? Why didn't you say "I didn't use my ability"?

Also, I don't get your last traitor theory

[Snow White]

Then in the case of him "slipping up" we need a CC.

I reitterate i was

not roleblocked.

I lied by omission. Or attempted omission.

Thereby its perfectly logical imho that he may have been redirected. The only thing that baffles me is why i wasnt attempted to be redirected... But this in itself could be a scum play and one greasy bowl of WIFOM im not keen on going into but if someone else wants to bring it up ill answer it as best i can.

thats probably my bad on the traitor. Ill tip my hat to you on that Saber.

[Snow White]

Because i wasnt particularily planning on letting mafia know my actions in the hope of if i took no action i could have had an action tonight. Because were i roleblocked last night then the roleblocker would lose their ability. it apparently is not the case and maybe we dont have a roleblocker.

1. MafiaGodfather (dead)
2. MafiaRedirector.
3. ???

-Im leaning toward a MafiaDoctor following Starbucks death.

Yeah. Forget the traitor theory. Im being stupid. I think i admitted that.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't see why there's no chance of their being a traitor: what does the Godfather have to do with anything? In the sample role PMs on the first page, it doesn't say that the Godfather

has

to recruit the traitor. Still... with 19 starting players (it was 19, right?)... I would think 4 scum and 1 SK would be reasonable. Then again, I'm not good with balancing large setups, so correct me if I'm wrong.

[dramonic]

Well, let's look at the facts here.

Mufasa believes his kill was redirected can work
Mufasa says he's vig can work
Mufasa says his kill was redirected to someone who died from mass injection. How does that ever fit in a vig's flavour kill???

I mean, if he's vig I believe he'd take the time to understand his own kill type.

[EtherealCookie]

Hi ho. Catching up, hopefully have a post by today, don't have much to say at the moment, didn't see most of the kills coming, but I'm going to reanalyze the dead and see who's nerves they struck.

[xRECKONERx]

Well, let's look at the facts here.

Mufasa believes his kill was redirected can work
Mufasa says he's vig can work
Mufasa says his kill was redirected to someone who died from mass injection. How does that ever fit in a vig's flavour kill???

I mean, if he's vig I believe he'd take the time to understand his own kill type.

I totally concur. I've been wanting to lynch Mufasa since yesterday, but BC was too blatant with his counter-claim. Gogogadgetmufasawagon.

Vote: Mufasa

[dramonic]

And on that how do we know there's not four mafiaso's, read the role pm's.

Good point.

[saberwolf]

And on that how do we know there's not four mafiaso's, read the role pm's.

Good point.

already went over this. It's up to the GF by the role PM to recruit, and we never gave him a chance, therefore there's just two left.

[dramonic]

I know, I was agreeing with why there couldnt be more than 2 other mafiosos barring traitor who's Out of order ayways.

[almightybob]

Hold on a second. Let's think this through logically.

There were two kills last night. They could

only

have come from scum and vig. Flavour indicates Starbuck was killed by a doctor's injection (scum doctor? very unlikely vig anyway with a detail like that) and MME by being shot (much more likely vig).

Mufasa claims he is vig, and targeted MrSuave.

If he's telling the truth, his ability must therefore have been redirected onto MME from MrSuave. There's no other way two people could have died. So MrSuave is almost certainly the scum doctor - I can't see the Mafia redirector randomly redirecting on a Townie when he could use his ability to protect his scumpartner.

If Mufasa is fakeclaiming, he's scum. Bingo.

Given that Mufasa just up and claimed when there wasn't really much need to and no-one was asking him to, I'm more likely to believe it. So I suggest we lynch MrSuave, and if he flips Town, lynch Mufasa.



Regarding the potential Mafia traitor: if there is one, they couldn't step into the Godfather role, because this would totally bypass the whole "recruitment" aspect. It would be incredibly unfair to Town. Since the Godfather is dead, the Mafia traitor is now pretty useless to the scum team, except to sway wagons. He can't communicate with them privately, he can't perform their kill, he can't step in to replace their roles. They might not even know who it is, since the information is only contained in the Godfather PM.

[xRECKONERx]

And on that how do we know there's not four mafiaso's, read the role pm's.

Good point.

already went over this. It's up to the GF by the role PM to recruit, and we never gave him a chance, therefore there's just two left.

You. Are. Wrong.

there is/is not a traitor amongst the town which you can recruit to your cause.

Okay, fine, they can recruit the traitor... however...

You win if you and the mafia control the whole town or nothing can prevent the same

I don't think they HAVE to be targeted... I think they just lack communication with the rest of the mafia if they're not "converted". Their wincon states nothing about winning with town.

[almightybob]

Hm. Just realised that actually how much I believe Mufasa could depend on how exactly the redirect works.

@Mod: If there is a Mafia redirector, how exactly does their power work? Do they target a person, and anything targeting that person is redirected away? Or do they target a person, and all that person's night actions are directed away to another target? Whichever is the case, is the new target random, or chosen by the scum? The role PM isn't clear.

Also, if a Townie loses their power, do they still flip as their original role upon death, or are they changed to Vanilla Townie?

[xRECKONERx]

Ninja'd. Also, I support the idea of lynching Suave and then using that to determine Mufasa's alignment... though it might be quicker just to lynch Mufasa and get the scum that way =P

[Sposh]

I don't understand. Nothing in the original roles say that the vig is a one shot! I don't think we have a one shot vig because it wouldn't make sense with the PMs.

[almightybob]

I don't understand. Nothing in the original roles say that the vig is a one shot! I don't think we have a one shot vig because it wouldn't make sense with the PMs.

The vig isn't one-shot, but like all the power roles, he loses his ability if he isn't "perfect". So if the vig kills a Town player, he loses his power. Since the vig definitely killed a Townie last night, he has now definitely lost his ability, and so is effectively a one-shot vig.

[almightybob]

@Mod: I realised I might not have explained my question well, so here it is in graphical format. Which of these describes how the redirector's ability works?

[Sanjay]

I'm almost certain we have a vigilante. Unless I'm reading wrong, there's no other way to have two nightkills. And if we have a vigilante, they no longer have their powers because they definitely miskilled.

Therefore, there's no reason for our vigilante not to counterclaim. It's not like they have their powers any more.

If they claim, we lynch Mufasa (or perhaps them). If we lynched the wrong person we lynch the right person the next day.

Unless there is a counterclaim, we have to conclude, perhaps begrudgingly, Mufasa is town.

I really don't think it likely we got two kills by anything but a mafia and a vigilante. Firstly, I am operating under the assumption that the roles in the second post are the only roles we are dealing with. Secondly, three or four mafia + one serial killer seems like enough scum for the town to handle, and I can't really see what other role would have a nightkill.

Is there anything wrong with this reasoning?

[xRECKONERx]

Sanjay, what are your thoughts on a traitor being out there?

[xRECKONERx]

Same question to FaerieLord.

[saberwolf]

I'm almost certain we have a vigilante. Unless I'm reading wrong, there's no other way to have two nightkills. And if we have a vigilante, they no longer have their powers because they definitely miskilled.

Therefore, there's no reason for our vigilante not to counterclaim. It's not like they have their powers any more.

If they claim, we lynch Mufasa (or perhaps them). If we lynched the wrong person we lynch the right person the next day.

Unless there is a counterclaim, we have to conclude, perhaps begrudgingly, Mufasa is town.

I really don't think it likely we got two kills by anything but a mafia and a vigilante. Firstly, I am operating under the assumption that the roles in the second post are the only roles we are dealing with. Secondly, three or four mafia + one serial killer seems like enough scum for the town to handle, and I can't really see what other role would have a nightkill.

Is there anything wrong with this reasoning?

do you agree with the thought of an SK? I figure there has to be. three NKs means 1 by scum, 1 by vig, and 1 by SK. Further proof of this IMO is people claiming the injection suggest flavour kill of a mafia doctor, but why does the mafia need a doctor?

To protect others from being NKed

Who can NK? Vigs and SKs.

[saberwolf]

Vig if you are out there and you are not Mufasa, please CC