Mini 862 ~ Mafia of Order (Game Over!)

[saberwolf]

to be clear, I wanted to know how soon it was until you got modkilled, because if you were to be killed soon, I wasn't going to waste a vote on you if you were going to die anyways. Now that it's clear you won't be modkilled, I can resume placing my vote on you again.

I have already claimed everything in full, while you skirt around the issue. Your methods of playing this game have been no better if not worse than mine, especially when I fashioned my game after you.

personally i feel its between you, DTMaster, and KMD, and I also have a slight nagging feeling VP might be scum, but he's at least playing a pro-town role.

[VP Baltar]

Shinon.

This is all your role name says? If not, I'd like the rest of it.

VP - I already claimed my Voice of Yune, and have been given no other information.

Stop stalling scumbag. Claim your role name, flavor and post cap in your next post or be lynched.

Also, where is this awesome analysis you promised Sens? We don't have much time, so out with it.

DTMaster, fuzzylightning, and LL need to stop the lurkfest and actually contribute.

[VP Baltar]

Goat, I would also appreciate if you'd help me find scum here. I am almost certain you are town now and feel I can trust you. Clearly we are not going to get action from others, so lets do the heavy lifting and get this right.

[SensFan]

Ranulf.
Townie Adjutant.
Vanilla.

Not claiming my postcount, like I said earlier.

[saberwolf]

Goat, I would also appreciate if you'd help me find scum here. I am almost certain you are town now and feel I can trust you. Clearly we are not going to get action from others, so lets do the heavy lifting and get this right.

IF you give me a nudge in the right direction, ask me some questions and such I can provide input and insight. Otherwise I'll try to contribute a little more to the game as best as I can, but we don't have a lot to work from IMO.

[DTMaster]

Sorry I'm posting to say I'm suffering from midterm hell atm and will be back Friday for the long weekend. Comments and such will be given then.

As an aside you know my claim but I'll restate it: Mia Town Duelist.

[DTMaster]

Oh crappy i just read the deadline is Thursday. I'm posting on my homework break time so be happy.

Quick comments then:

LL: I don't understand what is odd about me saying: claim if you have a guilty if you already found one (ie you found someone false claimed). It's equivilent to saying to the cop: claim if you have a guilty. Unless there are sanities involved with your role or something along the lines

If someone false claimed after you role investigated someone and then you investigated said person, would that be more benifical in catching scum? You just caught someone red handed in lying

VP: Comments about the last day? I'm waiting still. You can lead by example and start from there rather then spending posts complaining about the lack of posts.

Also since you basically asked the town for the reads on me and KMD, what are your reads on us as of now? Changed? Unchanged?

[DTMaster]

KMD: I don't disagree with vote analysis, I do however disagree with gut calls being your focus on day 1. Your example showed the falicy caused by VC and also your expressed that you reevaulated the too townie argument to catch scum after your VC failed. This means a combintation of all types of analysis is needed. But this is off topic now.

Your case is... abit too heavy in confirmation bias. Read Londontown Mafia (which the wolves did a good job and the town uterlly destroyed themselves, in my wiki) where confirmation bias actually killed the town.

Also explain to me how the lone vote is scummy? I can understand if X person flipped scum then the lone vote on the wagon would implicate the person. But Cobalt flipped town on day 2 after I agreed with him flavour wise. :S

Also your linkage case on me is: I would focus on sabre to attack at the end of day 1. Note though that you were also one of my main suspects at the end of the first day. Why did you ignore this fact when I attacked both you and sabre?


Sabre:
Also the modkill issue acts either as a lynch if Sens flips townie or a day restart if he flips scum (tradtionally). It wouldn't matter if you voted Sens or not because everything would be reset at the end of the day. Unless BaM has a diffrent modkill mechanic, why are you worried about votes in a modkill scenerio? It makes no sense.

Are you only exclusive to asking questions? :S. I'm slightly guilty about this as well, but I try to comment and activly question with my posts.

I don't see why you didn't make an effort, which reads as odd in my town metas on you. (Town read Day/Night Mafia and Jungle Republic since both of us are dead in the latter. Find it in the wiki. Sabre was more daring as town in the latter)

Town: I don't know what an adjunct is but I can say all role names are part of FE9. Zihark fits flavourwise, Shinon's ambigious claim is blah which makes be question the validity of it and Ranulf's claim might be legit if I find out what adjunct means.

Now LAB TIME!

[Kmd4390]

Shinon.

This is all your role name says? If not, I'd like the rest of it.

It says Shinon, Town Individual and then cap immune in parenthesis.

we don't have a lot to work from IMO.

Maybe on Day 1, town might have this mentality (I personally wouldn't), but on Day 3? Come on.

Let's lynch this scum after massclaim is over.

LL: I don't understand what is odd about me saying: claim if you have a guilty if you already found one (ie you found someone false claimed). It's equivilent to saying to the cop: claim if you have a guilty. Unless there are sanities involved with your role or something along the lines

The mechanics of his role mean if he has a guilty, he may not know it until the person claims. Even then, it's unlikely that his result catches them. It might make it harder for the scum to claim though knowing that Locke may have results on them. If we get a really bad claim, it may be due to Locke scaring scum. He doesn't have to claim his result until everyone else has claimed.

KMD: I don't disagree with vote analysis, I do however disagree with gut calls being your focus on day 1. Your example showed the falicy caused by VC and also your expressed that you reevaulated the too townie argument to catch scum after your VC failed. This means a combintation of all types of analysis is needed. But this is off topic now.

Wait, what? You lost me here. What fallacy? Where is too townie thrown into the mix here? And where did the analysis fail?

Your case is... abit too heavy in confirmation bias. Read Londontown Mafia (which the wolves did a good job and the town uterlly destroyed themselves, in my wiki) where confirmation bias actually killed the town.

Where does stating reads based on analysis have anything to do with confirmation bias? And I don't read games I'm not a part of. I don't have the time.

Also explain to me how the lone vote is scummy? I can understand if X person flipped scum then the lone vote on the wagon would implicate the person. But Cobalt flipped town on day 2 after I agreed with him flavour wise. :S

Trying to avoid bandwagoning. Staying off the mislynch. From town's perspective in a near-deadline situation, you'd have been more willing to jump a wagon to avoid no lynch or do more to convince others to follow you.

Also your linkage case on me is: I would focus on sabre to attack at the end of day 1. Note though that you were also one of my main suspects at the end of the first day. Why did you ignore this fact when I attacked both you and sabre?

You seemed to be actually willing to lynch me. You seemed to be attacking Saber for the sake of attacking him. The second sounds like distancing.

[saberwolf]

@DTMaster: I play a lot of FB mafia and we have certain guidelines we follow as town when we know somebody is going to time out of the game that's potentially town or scum. I've never had to deal with a modkill before on this site, and did not know how it worked. I figured that Sens would die as well as our chosen lynch, which in that case I rather not waste my vote on Sens and put it on someone just as worthy.

@KMD: Yes, we have some info by day 3, but due to the nature of the game setup, we don't have nearly as much as we'd normally would. My concern of conserving posts has kept me back a little I admit, but I guess now would be a good time to come out and start doing some good.

@everyone: Sens is my current vote choice, simply for the reason he has had very scummy looking votes, despite the claim that it's "to save posts". He has done nothing to scumhunt and all he ever inputs is lynchlynchlynch. I've wanted him gone for some time now and don't mind voting for him now. I shall now look at the rest of you in ISO and w.e to determine who else is worthy of my focus.

[saberwolf]

P.S to DTMaster: I simply don't have as big of an interest in this game compared to day night mafia. In that one it was interesting flavour and I was a day cop. This one I'm a simple VT and I'm kinda restricted in my posting, so this game has been on the bottom of my priorities.

[VP Baltar]

VP: Comments about the last day? I'm waiting still. You can lead by example and start from there rather then spending posts complaining about the lack of posts.

Well, except the problem is that I have been taking the lead all game, which is not a great idea. As awesome as I am, it is much better if the discussion is being generated from multiple directions because I very well could be way off base. This is why I want others to be talking and putting their thoughts out there. This isn't the VP Baltar show and I am certainly not the be all end all of scumhunting.

As far as comments on yesterday, fuzzy looks almost certainly to be scum and is among my top lynch choices today. On Day 1 he made his complete 180 on DDD so he could hammer, which was probably unnecessary, and then on Day 2 he didn't vote AT ALL until the last day when he could jump on one of the leading wagons. He has taken absolutely zero risks this game, nor has to he been doing anything I can see to actually figure out who the scum are. His power is something I could definitely see Vi giving to a scum because it forces a dilemma for the town.

I was hoping to get the last claim out there before I revealed this, but LL may be scum as well. I have been tossing this around in my head for a few days now, but I can't help but conclude that LL is the member of the scum team who was forced to claim without the benefit of fake claim. Here is his claim:

I am Janaff, the right wing of Hawk King Tibarn.

The reason why this is a scum claim is that it doesn't fit the format of the rest of the town claims and flips. The town claims are all in the format of "Name, TOWNIE XXXX (XXXX)".

Unless I hear a good explanation for this, LL is scum. DT Master, since you're our resident flavor expert now that cobalt is dead, who is this Janaff character and could you see him being scum?

Kmd is probably my third choice for scum. His play all game has rang a bit false for me and his vote count analysis gave some pretty horrendous excuses for players while also providing very little of what i would consider thoughtful insight.

Sens is still pretty scummy for his utter lack of contribution, but I think we have bigger fish to fry right now.

saberwolf I go back and forth on because ACSN looked very scummy to me, while he

Cut ~Vi

Unvote, Vote: Locke Lamora

[Vi]

My job is to be the symbol of Daein's liberation. But the Priestess of Dawn is no mere symbol. For her, the soldiers will gladly give their lives.

Vote Count:

SensFan (L-3) ~ fuzzylightning, saberwolf
saberwolf (L-3) ~ Kmd4390, SensFan

Locke Lamora (L-4) ~ VP Baltar

Not Voting:

DTMaster, Locke Lamora,

SensFan,

Goatrevolt,

VP Baltar

-Prodding fuzzylightning.

--With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
--Deadline is Thursday, November 5 2009.

(This is your last day!)

Post Count:

saberwolf - 32
DTMaster - 19
fuzzylightning - 18
Goatrevolt - 35
Kmd4390 - 46
Locke Lamora - 14
SensFan - 26
VP Baltar - 43

[saberwolf]

Look guys, somebody has to go. It's either going to be LL, sens or myself. We don't have time to really get anything else going, so you better lynch somebody quick, even if it's me. On the con side you'll be losing a town member but on the pro side I have no special abilities or many posts to use anyways, so I'm willing to put myself up for lynching just to make sure we secure a lynch, otherwise I feel Sensfan should go out of the three of us.

[SensFan]

APPEAL TO EMOTION.
BEEP BEEP BEEP.
APPEAL TO EMOTION.

[saberwolf]

APPEAL TO EMOTION.
BEEP BEEP BEEP.
APPEAL TO EMOTION.

suck eggs, there's no AtE here. I'm fine with going for the good of the town...it's not like I was being useful anyways. I happen to be tied with you for the lynch with LL always a possibility. I happen to think you are scummier than LL so my vote stays.

[SensFan]

Look guys, somebody has to go. It's either going to be LL, sens or myself. We don't have time to really get anything else going, so you better lynch somebody quick,

even if it's me. On the con side you'll be losing a town member but on the pro side I have no special abilities or many posts to use anyways

, so I'm willing to put myself up for lynching just to make sure we secure a lynch, otherwise I feel Sensfan should go out of the three of us.

APPEAL TO EMOTION.

[VP Baltar]

Jeez, you guys intentionally making this more difficult than it needs to be?

Sens, it's time to state your post cap. It's important to an idea I am working on. At this point there is nothing the scum can do to manipulate this, so cough it up.

Furthermore, stop with your little shouting matches and put up this content you promised. You've skated by long enough with the 'I'm too good to answer' BS and it's ringing fake this time around anyhow (as opposed to Yaw's game).

I want your thoughts on every player and the scum list I posted.

saber--don't waste posts having stupid arguments. I want your thoughts on every player and the scum list I posted.

[saberwolf]

more like stating the concequences of what would happen should I get lynched, based from my POV. It isn't exactly the most pro-town to get self-lynched if you're a townie, but I have to admit due to my limited post count as well as my limited interest in this game, I would not be a good candidate for the endgame, and there are others more deserving like VP and goat. Sens you are welcome to make your case against me. Mine against you would be moronic posting in the form of lynchlynchlynch and never contributing any good form of scumhunting. You have been wrong about every single lynch. You never explain any of your votes unless under extreme pressure, and you are very insistant on not claiming anything about yourself. To be fair looking at LL, he likes to vote hop a lot, going from me to kmd to cobalt, the kicker being he really did not think cobalt was scum, and claimed that he opposed the lynch, and yet was part of the BW overall. Use this as you may.

[saberwolf]

Jeez, you guys intentionally making this more difficult than it needs to be?

Sens, it's time to state your post cap. It's important to an idea I am working on. At this point there is nothing the scum can do to manipulate this, so cough it up.

Furthermore, stop with your little shouting matches and put up this content you promised. You've skated by long enough with the 'I'm too good to answer' BS and it's ringing fake this time around anyhow (as opposed to Yaw's game).

I want your thoughts on every player and the scum list I posted.

saber--don't waste posts having stupid arguments. I want your thoughts on every player and the scum list I posted.

ok, just give me some time to get my thoughts together.

[saberwolf]

KMD

hard to say a lot, after his posts all vanished, but he seems kinda off to me. He gives the appearance of scumhunting, but he always seems to be nitpicking a little too much, as scum would to try and find anything to peg down to cause a mislynch. Just looking at what posts I can look at he accuses me of being scumbuddies with sensfan, then he accuses me of having connections with DTMaster, then he decides to drag fuzzy into it, and 90% of it all had a connection with me in some way. HE had other small accusations as well, but never held onto one idea for long.

Sensfan

already explained, not gonna do it again.

Saberwolf

I'm town, nuff said

Goat

Appears the most pro-town of all of us imo. Does a good job of staying active and scumhunts well without going overboard or being a huge leader in the game. i wouldd trust him in the endgame.

VP

Similar to goat, but I think it's due to the fact you've been the supertown leader the whole game that I feel a bit uneasy around you, as you could very well be scum leading the town, and if you are I tip my hat to you for a well played game thus far. However, your committedness plus some of your post styles have me thinking that you are indeed town. If I had to pick your scumbuddy I would have to say fuzzy, for the possibility of chainsaw defence on fuzzys part.

fuzzy

Can't say I have much on fuzzy, but I tend to lean town only because of his ability claim. Seems to attack sens for moronic posting as well as tunneling, and he also did not like the cobalt lynch.

LL

My biggest thing on him is the fact he vote hops a lot and does things against what he said otherwise. I explained all of this in an earlier post. I'm a sucker for claims, so his claim was doing it fine for me, but then again his first power claim was pointless and useless and he also hasn't posted secondary results so I'm getting a little suspicious.

DTMaster

I'm going to have to say he feels town based on his post style. I feel very familiar with town-DTMaster and his way of posting suggests that he is town. Is very good offering insight on everybody as well as asking questions. Is active enough for me.

in order of town to scum IMO

Saberwolf
Goat
VP
DTMaster
Fuzzy
KMD
LL
Sens

[saberwolf]

btw, in case we all forgot, apparently we still have a third-party role out there, according to somebody (i forget who) I can't say I have seen much third party activity, but that's just me...

[SensFan]

Sens, it's time to state your post cap. It's important to an idea I am working on. At this point there is nothing the scum can do to manipulate this, so cough it up.

Furthermore, stop with your little shouting matches and put up this content you promised. You've skated by long enough with the 'I'm too good to answer' BS and it's ringing fake this time around anyhow (as opposed to Yaw's game).

I want your thoughts on every player and the scum list I posted.

1) I'm not claiming my post cap. If you need to know details, I started with between 70 and 90 posts.

2) What content? saber is scum. Lynch him. I'm not going to write a novel, I only have limited words.

3) I've never claimed to be too good to answer anything. saber is Scum.

4) I don't post lists of people. It's very anti-Town.

[Goatrevolt]

Goat, I would also appreciate if you'd help me find scum here. I am almost certain you are town now and feel I can trust you. Clearly we are not going to get action from others, so lets do the heavy lifting and get this right.

Yeah, I know. I've been phoning in the effort in this game. I have a half day of work tomorrow (still no power adapter, so my computer access involves using other people's computers...) and should have some time to get in a good read and a good vote. I'm getting owned by the brutally fast deadlines.

[VP Baltar]

1) I'm not claiming my post cap. If you need to know details, I started with between 70 and 90 posts.

2) What content? saber is scum. Lynch him. I'm not going to write a novel, I only have limited words.

3) I've never claimed to be too good to answer anything. saber is Scum.

4) I don't post lists of people. It's very anti-Town.

1) That works perfectly fine with me. You need to explain why you said in your 11th iso post that you were running out of posts then. You clearly were not. I'd also like you to explain why you have roughly half the posts I do when you started with at least as many if not more posts than me. I'm not in danger of running out this game and neither are you, so why are you making no effort to actually find the scum? Your cases so far have mostly just been based on anti-town things (particularly your arguments against saberwolf) rather than scummy behavior. Not to mention your interests seem to be only on one player at a time, which is a major sign of scum pushing mislynches.

2)What content you promised? How about this:

I've seriously ignored this game today.

Give me until tonight, and I'll be back with useful stuff.

Still waiting on that. I haven't seen a damn useful thing from you yet, so pony up or be lynched. And you don't have limited words. At worst you have 50+ posts left. That is more than enough to make it to endgame at a pretty high posting rate, so stop making excuses for not participating.

3) It's in your attitude. And you have been dodging my questions. I want your thoughts on players in the game and you flat out refuse because it's "anti-town". Perhaps in the early game it is, but it's not now. YOu need to take positions and defend them rather than conveniently being able to shift your opinion to whatever the available mislynch is. Why haven't you addressed the obvious problem with LL's role claim? Why haven't you given your thoughts on who the other scum team members are? We will be facing lylo tomorrow if we mislynch today and you seem like you could care less. Also, you claimed to have info about three wincons, which I want you to paraphrase.

4)You're completely wrong. Post it and quit dodging taking solid stances in the game.

The entire scum team is withing Sens, LL, Kmd and fuzzy. My suggestion is lynch LL first since he's as good as confirmed at this point and is likely going to try and dodge the lynch by not posting. Another thing that points

~cut ~Vi