Newbie 865 - Game over!

[PaltryExcuse]

Hey all! I agree with the idea that questions are much more productive in starting conversation than the RVS. Onto the questions asked:

PaltryExcuse: Do you think the presence of power roles distracts the town from scumhunting?

And one final question for everyone: What is your view on No-Lynching? Is their ever a time where No-Lynching would be better than a lynch?

The presence of power roles can easily aid the town, but dependence on them will kill the town unless the power roles get lucky / are able to analyze correctly. It can distract the town, but it really shouldn't. Looking at actions, searching for contradictions and lies, are two good ways for townies to look for scum.

No-Lynch on a Newbie Game's first day is a bad idea. We gain no new knowledge for voting patterns in late game (who led lynch of a townie / scum, who bandwagoned etc.). It is the town's only weapon and a main source of information. Later on it may be to the town's advantage to no-lynch, but that is completely circumstantial.

What is your experience in playing mafia (either online or offline)?

Online: I've played one game on this forum, and I am playing another (along with this).
Offline: Just with friends, however, it is very different due to the fact I know them so well.

This is a question for the more experienced players on the site, but anyone can answer it:
How do you feel meta plays a role in a newbie game?

[PaltryExcuse]

For newbies, no, but in my only other game on this site the IC's meta was brought up.

[PaltryExcuse]

Is there a reason you're isolating the most wordy of posters so far, RPG?

[PaltryExcuse]

Asking a question of you wouldn't really be an action of someone opposed to discussion, now would it? In all seriousness, I realize it's the beginning of the game, and there's next to diddly to go on. But, like you, I'm looking for a little exposition on what little there is.

[PaltryExcuse]

I could see the tracker conversation dying down, especially when you don't really ask him questions in that last post, per se. It was an attempt to get others talking, outside of you and tracker. There are two ways to take my question:

1. With a hint of subtext - implying I'm unhappy that you've got tracker, in particular, under the microscope.

2. At face value - questioning what ARE your actual thoughts on tracker. So far, to me, whether you feel that what he has done is scummy or not is left to the imagination.

It was just for a little more conversation. You're the only one doing anything to search for scum, so I'm questioning why you're focusing on tracker. It was a minor concern overall, as there have been 7 other people who have posted and you didn't find anything wrong with them.

[PaltryExcuse]

Firstly, on this 'PE vs. RPG' thing, I think we just got our wires crossed. He misunderstood what I meant, I wasn't clear, whatever.

Secondly, RPG, I think you are acting a bit frenetic, however the little details can sometimes be hints and it is helping the town focus on scumhunting rather than more theory questions. Announcing your intentions to pressure someone with a vote (when they still are L-4 away) kind of defeats the purpose. I think pressure votes should be behind a semblence of a case so that way the target does not realize what it is.

Finally, Toon Fighter, I have played one game on this forum as scum and I won it for my side.

[PaltryExcuse]

Would you agree or disagree that mafia has more to be paranoid about than a pro-town player?

Disagree, at least in the context of this game, as the mafia knows who is with them and who is against them whereas the town doesn't. But it's subjective.

Well, yes, that's the point of the game, that mafia know who each other are. However, because they are trying to blend in with the rest of the town, aren't they naturally going to be more paranoid about how they word things and such than, say, a vanilla townie? Pro-town players don't have as much at stake as anti-town players, because there's more of them, so there's more of a chance of a town win. Does that make sense?

Overall, I think it depends on the player. You could be paranoid about who's on your side, you could be paranoid about who's on to you. Anyone's 'paranoia' at this stage in the game is only going to help in later days if we see a dramatic personality switch.

At this point, IKD has been very helpful as an IC. However, many have jumped on tracker and RPG as doing the 'townie thing' (getting conversation going and actively scumhunting respectively) and the most obvious one in this category is IKD. Still, the 'too townie' argument means little without scummy actions.

I completely agree that it looked like PE was trying to protect tracker from RPG's questioning which was pretty harsh, perhaps RPG was onto something? Nothing else PE has done seems scummy though so that doesn't add up right now.

Was my 'defense' harsh or was RPG's questioning harsh? And if I were defending another player, how is that scummy?

[PaltryExcuse]

What I think of tracker:
At this point, I have no definite read on tracker. Honestly I'm finding this tunneling on tracker, with nearly everyone jumping on his bandwagon and finding him scummy, a little bit scum-led or scum-supported. This early in the game, it is difficult to get firm reads on people, and I think people are ignoring the obvious possibility of: He's just asking questions. I think it's easier for scum to jump on in support of something negative against another player rather than make their own case. Why? That's what I did until the 3rd day, and I won. People could be genuinely finding tracker seriously scummy, but on the other hand it is an easy excuse for scum to latch on to at this point.
Just to point out the people who said they find him scummy with <3 pages of posts: RPG, Commie, Gayle, ToonFighter(though passively) and you. That's enough to lynch him, if so inclined (though I'm not saying at this point you all are inclined to do so).

Getting 'in the way' of RPG's questions:
RPG may see me as another target, but I doubt he'd drop his suspicions because another person asked him a question. It put some suspicion on RPG, true, but it didn't stop him. I still don't see this as a defence on tracker, it was a question aimed at RPG. Attacking a scumhunter is not a defence of those they are scumhunting.

[PaltryExcuse]

I think I've caught whatever was going around. Blech.

At this point, IKD has been very helpful as an IC. However, many have jumped on tracker and RPG as doing the 'townie thing' (getting conversation going and actively scumhunting respectively) and the most obvious one in this category is IKD. Still, the 'too townie' argument means little without scummy actions.

I don't see myself as having "jumped on tracker and RPG as doing the 'townie thing' (getting conversation going and actively scumhunting respectively)". If you see me doing that, you're welcome to provide examples. However, I my vote on RPG is based on meta from my previous game with him, not on him trying to stimulate discussion.

Poorly worded sentence on my part. I didn't think that. I meant some are looking at those two for the 'too townie' reason, while they haven't considered you as being 'too townie' for being helpful. Just pointing out inconsistencies.

This early in the game, it is difficult to get firm reads on people, and I think people are ignoring the obvious possibility of: He's just asking questions.

So was I. So why did you ask me why I was isolating him (with questions) about his questions? His questions, in all actuality, are less impactful to the game then mine. I'm wondering WHY he's continuing to ask questions when we are clearly trying to move past that and decipher what we have already. His questions would be impactful if they were on page 1. He already did that. Those are page 1 questions. Not page 3 "I have nothing to add and I'm scared to move on so lets revert back to what we did and I can hide" questions. How does that not scream of hiding in a hole to you?

Surprisingly before this game started, I read two games he was in (kept up with the most recent one, and before I started playing I read a different one) and the random questions seemed to linger for a few pages. However I agree it seems like the town wanted to move past and his new ones might've stagnated things again. Hence, null-read.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Toonfighter: What are your findings? We've heard from the others who've requested some information, but so far your posts are lacking in content.

[PaltryExcuse]

This game that RPG & IKD played together is getting a lot of air time here. Could you tell me what game this is?

[PaltryExcuse]

Nevermind, I found it: Newbie Game #826

[PaltryExcuse]

I'm going with the meta in Newbie 824 is surrounded by null-tell.
RPG: It was his first game, and he was V/LA for most of day one, and inactive day 2. Different story this time: he is active, and scumhunting.
IKD: Despite only having 1 game at the time, was a pseudo-IC, helping people with terminology in the game. Similar to this game's play.

Question to RPG: When you say you didn't talk to your scumbuddy Day 1, are you talking about in game guidance or pre-game talk?

[PaltryExcuse]

Alright, reading back you are correct. I guess I was thinking about someone else. I really need to do my research before accusing someone of something. I will

unvote

now and I'm awaiting feedback from Gayle and CommieX.

Er, you unvoted Toon Fighter because of the misconception? Did you forget you switched your vote off RPG?

[PaltryExcuse]

Me? I have no big findings. I only know what I said in my posts. I suspect a bit of tracker, because of his questioning, and, coincidently (sp?), of CommieX, for his presure on tracker.

What is your case on your feelings towards CommieX? It can't be based on the fact that he is pressuring tracker in particular (as you feel similar)... so I'm curious as to what you don't like about his posts.
Feel free to comment on tracker as well if there's something that hasn't been already said.

Yeah, wasn't really paying attention. They had kept pressing the issue despite me having moved my vote so I forgot that I even moved it. And really my current vote is just to get TF talking (a pressure vote, really). His most recent post doesn't reflect someone who has been actively reading the thread, from what I can tell.

The issue was pressed because RPG thought he was being mis-repped. I felt it necessary to check it out for myself.
What about TF's most recent post makes you think he has been not checking up on the thread? CommieX has been pressuring tracker. Tracker has garnered suspicion in many eyes. That seemed to have been occurring when he posted.

[PaltryExcuse]

Oh, and about the post count, (which this post must make me look like I'm padding my own... stupid after-thoughts) I'm surprised we have so few after 10 days... including at myself.

[PaltryExcuse]

About CommieX: I don't know, I just felt like his accusations of tracker were scummy. He put a lot of pressure on him, but know he seems to be protecting him and accusing me instead :

Eh? Why would you change your vote to Tracker for stalling, when Toon Fighter is obviously a bigger culprit of this?

It seems even more suspicious. he is trying to divert attentions from himself and pointing at the most suspicios people at the time. And note, he reinstated his accusations on tracker the previous post, and now, instead of trying to convert IKD, he attacked me instead.

I think that the quesiton was criticizing IKD, not you. He's mentioning the fact that tracker being late in his response is nothing in compared to a poster who has only posted 4 times and admitting to waiting things out, so to speak.

About IKD, he seems very incongruent on his votes and accusations. He voted RPG, chenged his vote to me, the he forgot he had voted for me and unvoted, then paltryexcuse reminded him of that and he voted for me again, and now he seems on the verge of voting tracker. Those are a lot of suspect changes...

Secondly, rampant suspect change can be scummy I believe. It makes the poster look as though they are searching for the town-consensus rather than scum (as town should not be afraid of being wrong per se, but afraid of not doing anything). However, a willingness to accept you have the wrong person (open-mindedness) is important.

I'll agree that IKD's post about voting tracker is odd due to its unexpectedness, however CommieX's seems much more thought-based and studious. I think at this point I'm looking for exact points on which you find CommieX scummy as the only one you gave I don't think was an attack on you at all.

[PaltryExcuse]

You're right. But how do we distinguish scum from an "open-minded" townie?

That's the hard part.

[PaltryExcuse]

Secondly, rampant suspect change can be scummy I believe. It makes the poster look as though they are searching for the town-consensus rather than scum (as town should not be afraid of being wrong per se, but afraid of not doing anything). However, a willingness to accept you have the wrong person (open-mindedness) is important.

Does it really look like I'm searching for town consensus? I've only changed my vote once. I voted RPG and then when it was pointed out to me that I had my facts wrong and I looked and agree with that, I switched my vote as a pressure vote to get TF talking. That's the only change I made in my vote. Other than that, I mentioned consideration of voting tracker based off of him taking longer than he had said he would to post. So... where do you see these "rampant suspect changes"?

I'll agree that IKD's post about voting tracker is odd due to its unexpectedness, however CommieX's seems much more thought-based and studious. I think at this point I'm looking for exact points on which you find CommieX scummy as the only one you gave I don't think was an attack on you at all.

I said that your possible vote on tracker surprised me, where is the connection between you and the first paragraph I made? I thought I was saying it is much too early for the kind of accusation Canada was making on you.
If not, I'll make it clear now: I don't think you're scummy based on your votes, nor would I describe it as rampant. What you have done that is odd, is:
a) Forgetting where your vote laid. But I don't see this as particularly important. This is more odd in the "Whoops!" category.
b) Saying you may vote tracker due to his promise of a case when you yourself noticed there are many with a severe lack of contribution so far. You did seem to be setting yourself up to put a vote on him for a questionable reason.
I separated the two into different paragraphs because they were two different thoughts, both having been touched on by Canada.

[PaltryExcuse]

Nope, I'm getting from this I'm not being clear enough for all. Sorry if I'm coming off kind of harsh or whatever. This is all in the name of fun.

[PaltryExcuse]

Seeing as we may have a flaker, and that flaker was who I was looking at closely, I figure it's only fair to put my thoughts on the guy before his replacement gets here.
POST #1:

Hello All

Played once before, really excited to play again. It was a random vote game I played on here and that setup led to a lot of quick deaths and rash decisions. I like the idea of asking questions as it seems like it will get everyone a bit more engaged. It just seems like a more sophisticated way to play which I would imagine is why the deadline is set for 20 days!

Neo-con John: What is your opinion on lurkers(ing)?

I don't really see how someone could have a positive opinion on lurking, I definitely see it as bad behavior. The more people talk the better it is for the game and the less people talk the more likely we are to make a bad decision as a whole. I plan to talk... a lot, so count on seeing plenty of me.

And one final question for everyone: What is your view on No-Lynching? Is their ever a time where No-Lynching would be better than a lynch?

I do not have any experience with a no-lynch so I can only follow the wisdom of my fellow players who seem to agree that a no-lynch actually only favors scum. The argument makes sense as even a bad lynch provides information on others motivations where as a no-lynch gives the town nothing.

He mentions that he plans to talk a lot, and then proceeds not to. This is not particularly scummy, it is just incorrect. What's more interesting is the fact that he willingly admits that he agrees with the previous posts, and has nothing further to add due to inexperience. Acceptable.

POST #2:

I do not understand. What is it about games with a no lynch rule that makes them more interesting?

Nuttin' new. Just a random theory question.

POST #3:

Sorry for not participating, long weekend.

So from what I gather so far there have been small fingers of suspicion cast at RPG and PE, a very small finger pointed at Gayle, and what I would describe as a strong finger being pointed at tracker which has actually resulted in a vote. That is 4 out of 9 players that have been accused in some fashion, and I like to think that the group cannot be dead wrong on all four, meaning we have a fairly good chance that at least one of those listed is actually scum.

Now I may have missed something, please tell me if so. I have prepared the following summation of suspicions so far:

Commie X accuses tracker in PS#20 about the questions asked

RPG accuses Gayle in PS#21 for his answer to the no-lynch question, though it later appears resolved in PS#25

RPG accuses tracker in PS#29 for his position on lynching lurkers

RPG accuses PE of possibly trying to "protect" tracker in PS#33

Gayle puts the names of RPG and tracker in bold letters in PS#35 questioning RPG's suspicions and had the following to say about tracker

He asks about the everyone's opinion on allowing a no lynch, but does not give his own until everyone else has given theirs. Then he goes out of his way to explain why a no lynch may be feasible.

He establishes that he is scatterbrained and doesn't have the best memory. A good excuse for a mistake later in the game.

He questions twilight's use of the word agenda, as if he thought twilight was accusing him.

He first advocates lynching lurkers as a policy, and then waters it down a bit with 'if i believe someone to be scum then they're lynch candidate #1'.

A strong case indeed.

This is IIoA, or information instead of analysis. The first half of his post is just recounting what has happened in what was a short game at that point. It is completely unnecessary and ultimately unhelpful for the town. Feeding them information they already have is

active lurking

, and is scummy.

Overall I am unable to figure out RPG, he is throwing accusations around a bit too much, though this could just be evidence of an aggressive towns person.

Gayle seems to have cleaned up any problems folks were having with his position on no-lynch, his case agianst tracker seems solid.

I completely agree that it looked like PE was trying to protect tracker from RPG's questioning which was pretty harsh, perhaps RPG was onto something? Nothing else PE has done seems scummy though so that doesn't add up right now.

On the first three people who had been suspected, we have very wishy-washy feelings. He gives the reason that has been stated why they were looked at, and then the reason why the attacks died down. All of this had been said by other people. It's analysis, but it is completely un-original.

Tracker seems very suspicious to me. From the beginning I saw the questions as good for the game but also as really good for tracker as it provides a great cover for scum. He gives the appearance of being pro-town while at the same time collecting valuable information on all of us and maybe even dividing us amongst ourselves. His second line of questions looked to me like someone trying to divert our attention away from the RPG/PE fiasco in PS# 29-33. The questions themselves just seem weak and quickly put together, What is your favorite role?, C'mon. I am not quite quite ready to vote but I am

Seriously considering:tracker

Then finally, the case on which many people up to this point seem to believe: the case on tracker. His only unique piece of information comes here, the line about possibly distracting from the RPG/PE fiasco that took up an entire 5 posts! An his way of distracting everyone? By bringing attention back on himself. We have a re-iteration of everyone's case on tracker, and then an absolute bogus argument.

POST #4:

PE-I meant the questioning was harsh. I also was agreeing with RPG that it seemed as though you were trying to remove the attention on tracker, who... if scum, is a scummy move on your part as in this scenario you would be his scum partner.

So I would like to ask you, Paltry Excuse, what do you think of tracker and why did you get in the way of RPG's questions?

I'm the first one to question his words, and so he comes back at me. Slightly, peripherally OMGUS, but not entirely. The first short paragraph is a re-iteration on what has been brought up about me.
The second is in two parts. First, what I thought of tracker. Fair enough. The next question is obviously trying to put blame on me. Why did I get in the way of RPG's questions? This is a real attempt at blame-shifting. He says the only way what I did could be scummy, is if tracker is. The second part of the question seriously questions my behaviour, and accuses me of something. I take it you think I'm scummy. Which means you're essentially blaming two people in one post, without any new information on your own.

POST #5:

^ Agreed

The next time we hear from John is this. He agrees that tracker should post his findings. RPG has most recently said that he finds my first paragraph in my response to John as townie. Without ever giving a response or comment to me, John has now moved on to his favourite target, tracker. As soon as his argument lost favour, John gives up his claims.
POST #6:

I still have that game on my watched topics, and I re-read all of what I wrote. I got prodded, had short sentences,

didn't even talk to my scum-buddy (who got killed in D1, which I wasn't entirely active on.) Which, if you'll see, is exactly how I'm not playing now.

So are you admitting to talking to your scum buddy this time around?

This is an interesting piece of evidence here. I understand that this could have been an innocent unintentional use of words but it also could be a Freudian slip. If so it suggests that

(1)RPG is scum;
(2)RPG's scumpartner is one of the people he has not interacted with yet.

Ill do the research later on who RPG has and has not ben in contact with, unless someone else would like to.

If true, it would mean that tracker is not scum as he and RPG have communicated with each other, or a deeper unrelated ruse could be at work. Perhaps RPG's scum strategy is to strongly accuse his partner right off the bat in order to throw the rest of us off.

Admittedly I am speaking from a position that is already highly critical of tracker so I do not know how objective this actually is, but I do believe this new piece of evidence is something worth looking at. Though I am not even really completely sold on the idea that RPG is scum. Like I said it could just be a misuse of words.

Holy crap-muffins we have nothing new in this post! We have IKD's catch based on RPG's wording. Then we have an explanation of what it could mean. Then we have the promise of more about it. Then we have how it relates to tracker. Then we have... nothing? Wishy-washy opinion on whether RPG or tracker is scum, I guess.
I find you very scummy, Neo-con John.

Vote: Neo-con John

[PaltryExcuse]

About my accusations on CommieX, dunno, just had a hunch, and didn't like his post.

I may be wrong, but...

Right now, I feel that the doubts you have are unfounded and are based on a gut instinct or you're fishing for someone to build a case on CommieX. Laying out the bait, and hoping someone will take it. Gut instinct is fine in all in moderation, but it's hard to believe you have a case on him at all now. It feels slightly stall-ish.

@ PE: you may have something; those are some good points. But let's wait and see if he picks up his prod, and if not, what his replacement has to say.

Understandable.

[PaltryExcuse]

IKD: Who are you finding most scummy at this point? Now that I think about it I don't know who in particular you find as most likely scum.

To everyone else: Post more!

[PaltryExcuse]

I'm not an emotional player, and emotion did not guide my vote. If your only defence is that I'm emotional, then I'm not going to change my vote. Trying to discredit the poster is not a defence. If you can prove my case is bogus or my doubts unfounded, that is much better. What exactly is interesting about me voting you in my analysis post?

Summary is not analysis. As I said, anyone can summarize quite easily. It is tactic that is used by scum to look like they're contributing without giving anything new. I will say it again: it is called

active

lurking and is a scum tell. You can provide perspective by giving unique thoughts on the situation, not repeating others. I am looking for your perspective, not the ones I can get by reading others' posts.

The scumwagon on tracker was my idea. Then you give the possibility that the wagon is right. So I will ask you to do this: build a case on tracker if he's your top suspect. One that analyzes his posts, rather than copies others' ideas. Secondly, we're still waiting on that analysis on RPG and his comment that you once believed was a tell.

More posts would be appreciated! If you are town I'd like to change my mind. Although, right now I see nothing to say I'm wrong.

**Sidenote: I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that you flaked.

[PaltryExcuse]

Holy cow, tracker's most substantial and heartfelt post is directed at one of the people most critical of him.

Cough.. scumtell.. cough.

Not only this but his accusation doesn't come in Post #119 where he posts his initial "findings" about me, but it comes 20 posts later after the finger of suspicion has already been pointed, (by his reputed partner in crime PE by the way). Talk about scum.

Look who's talking. You're attacking who now? Two people who attacked you. Because they're making a concerted effort against you, they both must be scum. How convenient. Secondly, tracker's "findings" about you included this line:

Not much for idea creation, more of taking what others find

So, in his two sentences on you, he calls you out on something I was building a case on.
Just about gameplay however, it is seriously dangerous to start assuming you've found not one, but BOTH scum at this point. I could be wrong, and so could you. For all we know scum is sitting back and laughing as this entire ordeal takes place. So far I'm scum for defending tracker... which I really haven't done. I've attacked you, and I questioned RPG lightly.

I hate to vote on provocation but I will not allow this scumbuggery to continue. There are currently

THREE

votes against you, which was the cause of my concern, and now there are four. Did you lie about the vote count on purpose or has your time in the underworld affected your ability to count?

I have seen all I need to convince me of your true identity.

Vote: tracker

How does tracker's mistake on the vote count mean he is scum? Honestly, that point against IKD was rather weak as well. A mistake like that could HURT tracker because someone reads his post, thinks he's scum, but accidentally lynches him when they weren't ready.

For me, you need to:
1. Defend yourself against my case.
2. Build one on tracker.
3. Explain to me what I've done that is scummy per se... I'm not seeing it.

[PaltryExcuse]

RPG: Just curious to know if you saw my case, quotes and all, on NCJ or if the FoS is just on NCJ's reaction to both cases.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Canada: Who do you find scummy at this point, and would that person be worthy of your vote? Right now I'm seeing questions from you, which while good, are never really followed up by anything concrete. You're going to have to make a move soon (however, if it is against tracker, I would ask you to wait and consider his upcoming post before you vote).

@Mod: We've lost Gayle again (hasn't posted since Sat.) and Toon Fighter (hasn't posted since Mon.) Prods please again... sorry about this.

The mod shouldn't have to prod you to get you to post. Prods should be much rarer than they are in this game I think.

[PaltryExcuse]

Tracker is now at L-1, but in his last post he seems very calm, and just trying to create more time. What does that mean? Also, he said he would analyze me and others during the week, but only posted about NCJ so far.

About NCJ, he may casted his vote because of tracker's mistake, but he was alredy attacking him beforehand. His action didn't look suspicious on my opinion.

@Mod: isn't it time for a vote update?

Tracker being calm about it could be due to his miscounting the votes, or it is just his personality / how he feels. Really, it's a null-tell. Him not wanting to rush the day through is pro-town.

Yes, NCJ has been suspecting tracker for awhile. That isn't the problem. The problem is that NCJ is not defending himself on two cases against him, votes because tracker suspects him and miscounted the votes, and finally seems absolutely convinced of tracker's guilt without ever building anything with a resemblance to a case on tracker. NCJ seems to have been convinced of tracker's guilt before tracker even defended himself. Have you seen any response to tracker's defense?

Parallel that to yourself in a similar situation in this game:
People had questions and suspicions about your behaviour. You answered them, and explained your actions. Where is NCJ's? The only thing I've seen that could constitute a defense is him saying that a summary is an analysis. It is not, and it is a common way for scum to contribute without progressing anything. Finally, when I questioned you, did you instantaneously think I was scum? NCJ does. IIRC, every person who has been accused of something has responded / defended themselves and explained their actions.

So overall, I'll ask you, what do you believe are NCJ's reasons for voting tracker and do those reasons rationally deserve to put someone at one vote away from a lynch?

[PaltryExcuse]

@Gayle: What are your thoughts on the tracker vs. NCJ situation? Is there someone else who you are suspicious of? Any questions are clarifications that need to be made?

[PaltryExcuse]

@Gayle: What are your thoughts on the tracker vs. NCJ situation? Is there someone else who you are suspicious of? Any questions are clarifications that need to be made?

Honestly, I don't think much of it at all. I was ready to hammer tracker until 1, I though I was being replaced and then 2, IKD posted. I'll have to look over Neo-Con John's posts and the case against him again.

I'm confused:
A) If you don't think much of it, why were you ready to hammer someone?
B) What do IKD's posts have to do with your opinion?

[PaltryExcuse]

Why did you want to hammer tracker, Gayle? The last time I saw reasons from you to lynch tracker was very early in the day.

[PaltryExcuse]

If you could clarify what it is that you find scummy I'd be happy to explain.

[PaltryExcuse]

Actually, even NCJ and IKD too. Crazily enough, the most recent post does strike me as vehemently honest so my suspicions of you have gone down a great deal.

[PaltryExcuse]

Let me clarify that last statement:
I suspected you because you seemed to have few reasons for placing a vote on someone outside of impatience. It is good that a townie not try to be suspicious, but the overwhelming goal of a townie (and anyone playing for the town) is to lynch mafia. If you believe you've found a scum, you should lynch. However, caution is needed before jumping in, and if we can discuss things more, it would be more beneficial to the town.
Because you seemed to want to end the day sooner than needed and it seemed you were just looking for a lynch, I am suspicious of you.
However, your explanation leads me to believe you're just a newbie like me. It seems honest, so my gut says you're townie, although your words are slightly suspicious.
Any explanation you have on your suspicions will help you a great deal... so long as they're understandable (although some might disagree).


I might be wrong, in which case I expect the IC and SEs to say so. But let me quickly summarize: Quick-lynching and poor reasoning will make you suspicious, not hammering.

[PaltryExcuse]

Activity has really died down. We need responses from two in particular: Gayle who promised them, and NCJ who has left the case against him responseless. However, I'd also like to hear from the three currently not voting, as with less than three days left, we're going to have to make a decision on who to lynch.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Mod: Add Canada to the above two mentioned by IKD. Canada has not posted since last Thursday.

[PaltryExcuse]

PS. NCJ, this close to deadline, with you at L-1, I'd say it's time for you to claim. Claim away.

[PaltryExcuse]

That's some dangerous thinking. It is also possible that NCJ was bussed. I doubt it was by tracker, just because if I read NCJ's play properly, he was aiming for a tracker lynch.
For your personal viewing: Bussing
I will post on my thoughts on who is likely the scumpartner later.

[PaltryExcuse]

Ack, sorry for assuming.
Here's why I thought it was possible bussing (not necessarily true):
NCJ's only 'decision' was to support the lynch of tracker. Would the mafia join in that and be so close to his/her partner? Also, I firmly believe that the argument against tracker was weak and circumstantial, hence why I went looking elsewhere. If the other scum wants to separate themselves from the other, and maybe get some town cred for voting a destructing partner, they vote for him. Hence: Gayle, IKD, or RPG. With RPG as revealed town, that leaves possible bussers as IKD or Gayle. IKD and Gayle did not vote on the lynch until NCJ's blatant lack of defense and his reasonless finger-pointing.
I'm not sure either way that I feel there was a bussing or not, but I'm asking you to not throw it out of your mind... unless you're scum in which case we'll get ya.

...still, mafia not being on the Day 1 lynch of their partner does sound logical.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Canada: Right now I'm finding you mightily suspicious. You didn't seem to take a clear side in any direction at any point in Day 1. This could be interpreted as scum waiting to put their vote on the right person at the right time. We have not seen any real scumhunting from you. I'm curious as to your suspicions the most right now as wishy-washy thinking is troublesome.

[PaltryExcuse]

What made you suspect that IKD was town? At the end of the day, I, NCJ and IKD were your top suspects.

[PaltryExcuse]

On ToonFighter:
The major thing that bothers me about ToonFighter is that his case on CommieX seems completely gut based, and now is voting based on that along with the fact he believes the scum was not on the NCJ lynch.
Quoting CommieX is, showing what exactly your gut is rankled by, would probably be helpful in this situation. He has very little to work with, so I'm curious as to what in that you are finding suspicious.

On Canada (replaced by Hercule Poirot):
In other news, Canada is still more scummy in my opinion. For me, over half of his posts are apologies for not posting enough, or just complaining about quote tags. This, plus extremely wishy-washy behaviour is not exactly what I'd call pro-town. I'm really getting the feeling he's looking for a place to put his vote.
His only saving grace: one of the few times he was active was when tracker was at L-1. He could've hammered, although his cautious behaviour with his vote could also imply he didn't want to look suspicious for placing the final vote on someone townie.
I'll wait for Hercule Poirot to catch up, and give some feedback. If I don't like what I see, I'll be voting for this slot.

[PaltryExcuse]

Actually... that's a good point.

@Mod: Did Canada request a replacement? And if so, did he leave any reasons why?

[PaltryExcuse]

@Hercule Poirot: You bring up an interesting point. That post could read like a distraction tactic. However, I would suggest a PBPA (Player by player analysis) in order to give your thoughts on all those left in the game.

One thing:

Also, I consider Tracker innocent. He was the one who built the case against the dead mafia member.

I could've sworn that was me.

[PaltryExcuse]

Sherlock Holmes? No, I haven't read it... my knowledge is that which I'd assume to be popular: Pipe, Violin, Mystery solving, Watson.
I must say though, this really should have a point. I'm not sure what to think of this at all.

[PaltryExcuse]

I wouldn't say Toon Fighter was defending NCJ. It was non-committal talk really, and a possible distraction about the scum partner before we knew of NCJ's flip. Slight misinterpretation there.

Interesting. Sounds like our good friend the cop should start investigating then, shouldn't he?

Who is the cop? If he claims to be the cop, and the doctor keeps protecting him, we can pretty much nuke the entire mafia. Step up Mr.Cop.

NO CLAIMING FOR COP UNLESS YOU HAVE A GUILTY.
A) We could have no cop.
B) We could have no doctor.
C) We could have neither.
At this point we have no idea of the set-up. Only mafia and power-roles can eliminate any possibilities in the 4.

[PaltryExcuse]

NO CLAIMING FOR COP UNLESS YOU HAVE A GUILTY.
A) We could have no cop.
B) We could have no doctor.
C) We could have neither.
At this point we have no idea of the set-up. Only mafia and power-roles can eliminate any possibilities in the 4.

Precisely.

This kind of destroys my plan, but....

Indeed, it is possible we have no doctor, or no cop. But say, if you were in the mafia, wouldn't you take this chance to claim cop? Initially, it sounds like a great plan. Just say that whoever you investigated is innocent. Even if somehow you claim the doctor is innocent, the doctor can't admit to being the doctor without being killed by the mafia.

The thing is, whoever claimed to be the cop would be killed by the mafia next round, unless the doctor protected him. The mafia wouldn't know the setup, so they would assume they got a 50% of chance of killing him.

I know the real cop won't claim to be the cop. It would be pointless. Anyone who claimed to be the cop at this moment would be trying to take advantage of the position to be above suspicion, therefore making him the most suspicious person.

...Of course since you two were so quick to point out why claiming cop isn't a good idea, I think the hidden mafia guy isn't going to be claiming cop anytime soon.

No, mafia wouldn't.
The mafia knows of a 50% chance another cop is out there, and will counterclaim. Then we just lynch them consecutively, and so long as neither is townie lying, we win.
Then if they live for too long, people will suspect them heavily.
Really, it draws attention to them and is probable death.
If there is a cop claim, and it isn't from the cop, the cop should claim. Really, your bluff is confusing at best. Although the case against TF is intriguing, you've done a few common scum tells:
A) The last post is rolefishing. And it could have caused an inattentive cop to claim, or a doc. Either way, ucky stuff.
B) I feel you slightly misrepresented ToonFighter. He wasn't defending NCJ, it was distracting at worst, covering his bases at best. A defense would be more damning, but I don't think that's what he was doing.
C) In your first post you congratulate the town on finding scum, a serious newbie scum tell.

Impressive, catching a scum on the very first day.

D) I found Canada scummy... His was wishy-washy scum behaviour, now yours is just a new type.

Vote: Hercule Poirot

[PaltryExcuse]

Alone? No, it is not enough to merit a vote. To someone who's trying to seem pro-town when entering? Under a little pressure (from me), and needs some town cred?
It's not a very strong point, but with the rest it definitely doesn't help.

[PaltryExcuse]

Still, HP, I'd appreciate a PBPA.

[PaltryExcuse]

Point 1: It was rolefishing. You blatantly asked for a cop claim. If you're town and you have some other motive, I can't see how it could make sense for the town as a whole. You asked for a power-role to claim when it wouldn't be advantageous to town.
Point 2: It's not about how concrete it was, it was that I thought you were misrepping him. Secondly, in the same post where you mentioned 'distracting', you also repeatedly mention defending.
Point 3: As I said, by itself, isn't that strong.
Point 4: Isn't about how you changed personalities, but I can see the misinterpretation. (I'd expect you to, being two different people). What I was saying was that Canada was scummy to me, and you showed different behaviour, but it was still scummy to me. Just that Canada's transgressions due translate to your slot.

I don't mind if you need a little bit for a PBPA. You've been active since you've replaced so I've got no qualms there.

[PaltryExcuse]

So you are basically saying, "my instinct tells me he is scum"? "Seems scumy" hardly seems a point, but rather the reason you would be looking for evidence. Again, it seems like you aren't basing your conclusion on facts, but rather you already chose your conclusion, and are looking for facts to support it.

Now, yes, that is what my instinct is saying. It was sparked by something, and that was Canada's behaviour. Like I said before you posted, I found Canada scummy. So, I analyzed your posts in a little more detail, and I didn't like what I saw. I think my reasons for suspecting Canada are legitimate, and they translate to your slot.

Do not discuss any correspondence from me; I will not comment on anything that isn't public.

Whoops, sorry.

[PaltryExcuse]

SirPent, like I requested from Hercule Poirot, a thing to do (in my experience with newbie games) is to give a PBPA (player by player analysis) on everyone still in the game and perhaps announce your conclusions to this point.

[PaltryExcuse]

A) If by third scum, you mean I am third of three scum, the set-up doesn't have them.
B) If Gayle is scum, we need reasons.
C) If I am scum, we need reasons.
D) Why are those people you think are town, town?

You're basically missing the information that makes your thoughts understandable to others.

[PaltryExcuse]

Unvote

I don't want a lynch until we hear from the stalling Tracker.

[PaltryExcuse]

Who's HE?
Is it HP, in which case it's Herucle?
Is it PE, in which case it's me?
And yet again, you need to back up your ideas. The fact that NCJ was

not

doing this led to him being lynched (and was a sign of his scumminess). However yours seems more related to inexperience as to how mafia is played on this site.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Tracker, ToonFighter: Post please!

[PaltryExcuse]

Hey, I'm still here. For now, unvote

I was on the spotlight a few days ago

, but it seems that now the main suspect is HP, or the artist formely known as canada.

I could post my analisys of him, but everything has been said alredy. What I find interesting is that he hasn't really tried to defend himself. Sure, he posted Sun post 243, but he hasn't posted since, and

it seems he was just waiting for the fade to go away, or for the village to find another suspect.

That kinda seems to have worked, as Gayle got a vote, and PE unvite him (SirPent voted for someone, but we don't really know who).

Maybe he is away (or he has limited acess on workdays), but he seemed so active on his first days in the game... Why did he disapeared?

See bolded parts.
Basically, from what I understand, is when you last posted you felt as though you were target No. 1. Then you disappeared for a little while.
Then you hypothesize (though not concretely) that Hercule could have faded away so that way another person would come under fire.
I'd say that point could easily be applied to you.

[PaltryExcuse]

What is going on?
SirPent, if you are town and not cop, you could DOOM the entire town by your actions.
However, if you are cop and this is true, why were you stalling with your guilty read?
If you are mafia you just committed suicide.

[PaltryExcuse]

Answer my question SirPent.

[PaltryExcuse]

It is a possibility, however I find it unlikely, that he didn't get results back until now.

Honestly, I'm ready to lynch the possible townie who is bored and so claims cop with a guilty. If he shows cop, Gayle's dead tomorrow. Fun fun fun. I'm going to bed.

[PaltryExcuse]

If SirPent is mafia, great, we win. Because based on Gayle's self-vote that seems to scream "I'M TOWN AND I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT'S GOING ON" I think he's town.

My gut is saying SirPent is a lying townie, and I am astonished that both tracker and IKD voted Gayle when SirPent's newbish, inexplicable play got them to vote Gayle.

I think one of the two of you are scum now, taking advantage of massive confusion. This goes doubly for IKD who warns we should decide what the town wants and then VOTES putting Gayle at L-1.

FOS: tracker
FOS: imkingdavid

@Gayle: Why did you self vote? There was nothing to gain by that.

[PaltryExcuse]

'lo all. And a "Hi, I'm PE" to those who replaced in after my death.

Firstly, a

thanks to Elmo

for modding. Prompt, consistent, answered any questions. Overall, good stuff.

Zee list of players:

NCJ:

If you're still on the site, I'd welcome you to play again. Flaking basically sealed your fate as the Day 1 Lynch. You seem like a smart guy, but, you kind of did the same thing I did Day 1 in my first game. I was scum there, so I was watching for someone to do something similar.

RPG:

Active, analytical and objective are three good qualities you had in this game. Overall, nice play.

Gayle:

No need to apologize, just don't self-lynch. One idiot troll shouldn't be a reason to remove yourself from a game (they should be removed from the game... and was removed). Otherwise, I had a town vibe on you for pretty much the whole game, hence why I knew the SirPent cop claim was a lie. There was no question in my mind (although this kind of certainty can definitely get me in trouble later). If you're innocent and not a miller, and someone claims to have a guilty on you, you push right back.

IKD:

Actually, I didn't have a pro-town read on you, and at my death you were target number 1 (which I made too obvious, leading to my subsequent death). You were target number 2 (and sometimes 1) after day 1, as NCJ's behaviour towards you seemed to be too friendly (see my insistence that bussing is possible in early Day 2). He targetted every active person except you. I think I would've been less suspicious if you voted NCJ before tracker. Otherwise, you distanced yourself well from NCJ, and without him I don't think I would've suspected you going into Day 2.
Just want to say, it was a dire situation when qax replaced in, and I give you major respect points for fighting it out until the bitter end. Many would fold, or give haphazard attempts, but you played to your win condition the whole time. Kudos.
I would like you to answer why you didn't hammer SirPent as Nicodemus suggested on Day 3 before he replaced in. You even had tracked on the lynch to cause some confusion to carry him to Day 4's lylo.

Toon Fighter

: Your day 1 play was a bit newbie, but you seemed to learn going into day 2, and then into day 3. Being aggressive at people you suspect (though not mean) is a good way to get them talking and possibly incriminate themselves. Otherwise, I'd say you have a head for the game.

qax42

: Thanks for being the smart cop you were. You came in with a guilty, but realized the town's situation and came in with a case as well. Awesome sauce.

Nicodemus

: You didn't really have a chance to play the game, but you were logical about qax's cop claim and how I saw it brought the game to its inevitable conclusion. Hope to play with you sometime.

Fun game overall! My first where I actually nailed a scum independently of others so I'm gonna chalk this one as well played for the most part. Elmo, as a third party observer, and comments would be appreciated. I'd like to see you all again in another game I'm playing.

[PaltryExcuse]

Actually, I didn't have a pro-town read on you,

Ah, misread you then. I only really noticed you being against me right before I killed you after hammering Gayle.

I was trying to hide it, and actually your vote on Hercule Poirot and then subsequent guilt push on tracker made me unvote. Before then you were number 2 based on Canada's and HP's playing... Then the game exploded via SirPent. Still, it's the first time I've ever had a handle on things, so unless I make this a habit I'm gonna chock most of this up to NCJ's play.

[PaltryExcuse]

PE, you skipped me

Whoops! My bad.

Tracker

: I really liked the questions starting us off rather than the RVS. I found there was more conversation than in RVS, and less random bull. Overall, I didn't find you scummy at all that first day, and was sincerely confused as to how many did. You defended yourself well enough and stuck with it, and your support on my NCJ case led to a scum lynch. You were guaranteed town after that in my mind, but I reeeeeally wish you didn't vote Gayle when you did.
Really only one note about your play style is that I find full sentences much easier to read than your point form. I think people would find you less scummy as your intentions should become more clear.