Mini 862 ~ Mafia of Order (Game Over!)

[VP Baltar]

Also, town persons should note how many PRs have already flipped. I would bet money that we didn't start the game with too many more PRs than have already been revealed. At least two of fuzzy, LL, and Kmd is lying about their alignment.

[SensFan]

I'm not posting a list of everyone, no matter how many times you ask me. If you want a list of 3ish people I think are probably Scum, I'll go with that, but I absolutely refuse to list everyone in the game, and my feelings on them. It's very anti-Town, though not scummy.

[fuzzylightning]

I have been neglecting this game for some reason and I greatly apologize for that.

@VP: Janaff was a fairly important person in FE, and I believe that with the way that it was claimed that he is likely scum. With that, and basing this completely on flavor, that Ranulf is scum as well.

Did Goat ever claim?

Currently, I believe that Sens and Locke, who seems to be like a role cop (which is generally a scum role) are scum. As for my 3rd suspected scum, I will wait until Goat claims as that could change my mind.

I would like to see either Sens (where my vote is now) or Locke lynched today and will support either one.

Provided I make it to tomorrow, my first post will be my feelings on the entire game, and that's a promise. However, I have to go to work soon and my shift will take me past deadline.

[VP Baltar]

Sens, I shouldn't have to ask you to put up a list of suspicion. Nor should you dodge my questions and points.

You still haven't addressed what you think of LL's crappy claim. Avoiding much?

Everyone else, TODAY IS THE FRAKKING DEADLINE. Vote LL and let's get this lynch going. I can't believe how apathetic everyone is toward this game. Jesus.

[saberwolf]

if I see another vote or two go on LL, I'll join it.

[VP Baltar]

Unvote, Vote: Sensfan

[Vi]

Quick Vote Count:

SensFan (L-2) ~ fuzzylightning, saberwolf, VP Baltar

saberwolf (L-3) ~ Kmd4390, SensFan

Locke Lamora (L-5) ~

VP Baltar

Not Voting:

DTMaster, Locke Lamora, Goatrevolt

-90 minutes remain.

--With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
--Deadline is Thursday, November 5 2009.

(This is your last day!)

Post Count:

saberwolf - 37
DTMaster - 19
fuzzylightning - 19
Goatrevolt - 36
Kmd4390 - 46
Locke Lamora - 14
SensFan - 30
VP Baltar - 48

[VP Baltar]

I really hope you guys aren't going to be ridiculous and let the day go by without a lynch.

If I am dead tonight (as I am expecting) follow my lynching list and win the game. LL needs to go first as he's confirmed scum at this point. LOOK AT HIS CLAIM. Also, notice how he said nothing today and has tried to stay hidden all game.

If Sens gets lynched and flips scum, fuzzy may be town. Kmd is probably still scum. DT I'm not sure on.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Sens

. L-1. Someone get in here and hammer.

VP, just because you are telling everyone what to do doesn't mean you are confirmed town. I still think you are scum. How the hell is Locke confirmed scum? He's the most likely player to be town in this entire game aside from Goat. I would like his results though. He said he'd give those..

[VP Baltar]

Locke is confirmed scum because his claim has an entirely different format to the town format. I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge this, however, as he's clearly your buddy.

Nothing about LL is 'likely to be town'. I'm just ashamed I didn't notice it yesterday when he was at the cusp of a lynch.

Feel free to keep me around tomorrow if you think you can actually get me lynched since I'm such a confirmed scum to you. I'd appreciate it.

[Vi]

It does not matter who the enemy is. If there is a way to avoid taking a life, that is the path I will choose.

Vote Count:

SensFan (L-1) ~ fuzzylightning, saberwolf, VP Baltar, Kmd4390

saberwolf (L-4) ~

Kmd4390,

SensFan

Not Voting:

DTMaster, Locke Lamora, Goatrevolt

--With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
--Deadline is Thursday, November 5 2009.

(The deadline has expired.)

Post Count:

saberwolf - 37
DTMaster - 19
fuzzylightning - 19
Goatrevolt - 36
Kmd4390 - 46
Locke Lamora - 14
SensFan - 30
VP Baltar - 50

-----

Night 3 starts now and will continue through this time Saturday.

[Vi]

Ike... I'm leaving everything in your hands... With you in command, I know I can be at peace when I...

--- SensFan ---

Ranulf, Townie Adjutant (Vanilla)

--- Killed Night 3.

-----

Vote Count:

Not Voting:

saberwolf, DTMaster, fuzzylightning, Goatrevolt, Kmd4390, Locke Lamora, VP Baltar

--With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
--Deadline is Saturday, November 14 2009.

(7 days left)

Post Count:

saberwolf - 37
DTMaster - 19
fuzzylightning - 19
Goatrevolt - 36
Kmd4390 - 46
Locke Lamora - 14

SensFan - 30

VP Baltar - 50

People in danger of an inactivity modkill:

You

[VP Baltar]

I do not understand the scum kill choices at all this game. I want to hear from Locke as soon as humanly possible.

1) Explain why your claim has a different format to everyone else's.

2) Reveal your investigations on people who have already claimed.

3) Explain what happened to you yesterday, because as far as I can tell you simply chose not to participate.


Goat and DT, where were you guys yesterday?

[saberwolf]

I personally would like to hear from LL

for someone who claimed to have cop-like abilities, I'm amazed that he is still alive.

I haven't heard any other results from him either

therefore I must:

vote: LL

[Kmd4390]

Still pretty sure Saber is scum.

Saber, why are you voting so soon in LYLO?

I think the scum team is Saber/VP/DT. Someone tell me why I'm right or wrong.

[saberwolf]

Still pretty sure Saber is scum.

Saber, why are you voting so soon in LYLO?

I think the scum team is Saber/VP/DT. Someone tell me why I'm right or wrong.

1. My vote alone means nothing. It would require the entire scumteam to quicklynch, which would be hard to orchestrate, assuming I am not scum and that there are in fact 3 scum.

2. How do you know it's 3 scum and not 2 scum?

3. I know your scumteam theory is wrong, because I know I'm town. Obv that isn't good enough by itself, but dispite my uneasiness about VP, he is being rather pro-town. DTMaster I could see being scum, as he has been rather lurkish.

4. If I had to pick who I thought was the scumteam, based on new info and rereads, it'd have to be LL/DTMaster and if there's a third, I'm torn between fuzzy and KMD, can't really decide, but I'd lean towards KMD, only because of fuzzy's claim.

[saberwolf]

I find it suspicious that:

the one with no max cap is still alive
the one who basically is our claimed cop is still alive

should we have everyone claim again, just to be safe?

[VP Baltar]

Kmd, what do you think of LL's claim not having anywhere near the town format? Why do you keep ignoring this question?

Furthermore, I've yet to see an actual case from you, so it's time to actually make sense. Your VC analysis this game was major fail (which is atypical for you as town), so I want to hear actual reasons for your "scum team". Also, if those are your scum picks, how do you reconcile me being the lead driver on the Day 2 DT wagon?

Also, looking back at Kmd's claim, it also looks fake:

Shinon, Town Individual

Town Individual? Seriously.

Saber, I'm pretty sure that Kmd is scum with LL, but I would appreciate an unvote for now as well. We will lynch early in this day I feel, but there is no need to rush it too much.

[saberwolf]

unvote

[Kmd4390]

1. My vote alone means nothing. It would require the entire scumteam to quicklynch, which would be hard to orchestrate, assuming I am not scum and that there are in fact 3 scum.

Hard, but possible. If I were the scumteam, I'd have discussed a time of day or something when everyone can always be online. Or some kind of code or something.

2. How do you know it's 3 scum and not 2 scum?

It's a mini. It's not always 3 scum, but that's the most likely situation.

3. I know your scumteam theory is wrong, because I know I'm town. Obv that isn't good enough by itself, but dispite my uneasiness about VP, he is being rather pro-town. DTMaster I could see being scum, as he has been rather lurkish.

Elaborate on your wishy washy stance on VP. I want something more solid than uneasiness, but protown. Would you be willing to lynch DT today?

I find it suspicious that:

the one with no max cap is still alive
the one who basically is our claimed cop is still alive

Why? It's not looking like people are going to run out of posts soon anyway. And obviously, scum are trying to fuck with us. The Sens kill makes no sense at all unless newbscum saw Sens attack them or something. I'm not going to speculate on the NK though. Too much of a brain cramp.

should we have everyone claim again, just to be safe?

What would this accomplish?

Kmd, what do you think of LL's claim not having anywhere near the town format? Why do you keep ignoring this question?

It's just the way he claimed it. Not everyone goes to their Role PM and quotes it exactly. I personally don't most of the time.

Furthermore, I've yet to see an actual case from you, so it's time to actually make sense. Your VC analysis this game was major fail (which is atypical for you as town), so I want to hear actual reasons for your "scum team". Also, if those are your scum picks, how do you reconcile me being the lead driver on the Day 2 DT wagon?

I don't see the problem with the VC analysis. And distancing isn't impossible.

Town Individual? Seriously.

Outguessing the Mod? Seriously.

[DTMaster]

Sorry guys. Took a break from the computer and etc.

@Town
If you were wondering where I was on Thursday I said I had to be back on Friday due to midterm hell, but I posted on Wednesday noting the deadline. My Japanese midterm went well <3.

K! On to the game related material:

My post count increased to 86 from 79. That's 7 more posts. I'm seeing a pattern here.

@LL
When you are back can you answer my question about revealing your results pre-claim. I said: If you caught scum already/or a fake claim reveal. You attacked me for this. Why? If someone fake claims in mass claim after you reveal and you investigate them, you caught scum? Why is the latter bad?

@Fuzzy/VP
Janaff is as important as Shinon, Mia, Tanith... etc. If someone claimed Ike now that is an important character role. Flavour wise Janaff is the right hand man with to Ulll/Ulki (can't remember his name).

@KMD
I expected Shinion: Town Sniper. I smell fake claim.

1. In the example you gave us, you showed us that when you used VC analysis initially you were killing VTs. Then you had to adjust your case with the too townie argument to actually find scum. Aka. More other forms of analysis + VC = strong argument. This is off topic now. The fallacy comes from tunnel warfare here.

[DTMaster]

@VP
1. I dislike your day 4 comments. Appeal to scum to keep you alive? That's just drenched in WIFOM here.

2. I agree with you based on flavour. Shinon should be like: Town Sniper or something like that. Cap-immune I don't get how it fits with him both character wise and ability wise based on the games. The only thing that makes kind of sense is that he's a ladys man in the games.

@Sabre
1. Lurkerish from school = legitimate reasons to be less active from my other games. Take a look at Zachtown in my wiki, I was so behind from school I had giant pauses between my posts. At least I'm playing to the best of my ability.

2. Shouldn't the statement be: Are there any counter claims right now?

[VP Baltar]

It's just the way he claimed it. Not everyone goes to their Role PM and quotes it exactly. I personally don't most of the time.

No, it's not "just the way he claimed it". It very clearly has information that is not included in a town PM. Again, for your ease of reference:

Town PM looks like this format: Player Name, TOWNIE (TITLE) (ROLE)

LL claimed: Player Name, right hand of something something

Those are not even close, nor is it simply the correct information that was put in the wrong order. It is DIFFERENT information to that of the town PM. LL has not struck me as someone who even knows the flavor in this game, so I am quite certain he had to look at his role PM before claiming. You can keep making all kinds of excuses if you'd like, but the evidence is right there for anyone to see.

I don't see the problem with the VC analysis. And distancing isn't impossible.

The problem with your VC analysis is that the data presented does not lead to the conclusions you proposed. You also make a lot of excuses in it for players with shady votes. I'll hopefully have the time to do one myself today and put something proper up.

As far as distancing goes, yeah I would surely come off of the leading wagon at that time three days from deadline with a comprehensive case on my buddy that actually got significant support. That's a pretty well thought out theory you have there.

1. I dislike your day 4 comments. Appeal to scum to keep you alive? That's just drenched in WIFOM here.

Eh, if you got killed early in games as much as I do, you'd do whatever it takes to stay alive. Especially in this town where I feel like I'm the one doing most of the work. If I can WIFOM the scum into letting me live another day, all the better for us. Was that the only problem you had with my Day 4 play? What do you think of LL's claim?

2. I agree with you based on flavour. Shinon should be like: Town Sniper or something like that. Cap-immune I don't get how it fits with him both character wise and ability wise based on the games. The only thing that makes kind of sense is that he's a ladys man in the games.

I don't really know anything about the flavor. Town Individual just sounds really generic to me. Regardless, I want LL dead first and then his scum flip would be enough to implicate Kmd as his buddy

~cut ~Vi

[saberwolf]

it should be noted that lynching LL might be a good move for you VP, as a bussing of that kind would not put you in the hotseat anytime soon, just a thought...but I do agree that KMD and LL are much scummier and hence more likely to be scum. Just letting you know I'm not dropping the idea of you bussing LL knowing we're gonna lynch him today.

[Locke Lamora]

Right, I'll try and address everything directed at me and hopefully I won't miss anything. I apologise for missing more time and the deadline yesterday; I had no internet access at all when I expected to have some and I was unable to get online until Friday afternoon.

First of all, results: I investigated DTM's role name N2 and it is Duelist. I investigated Sens' character name last night which is obviously now pointless.

As to the specifics of my claim: my role name is Townie Watcher, Role COAT. The right wing part is what it says following the bolded part of my PM, along with the information that I am one of the last Hawks able to fight following Kilvas' betrayal. As to why I claimed in the format I did, I don't really know what you want me to say there. VP's right that I don't know the flavour of this game; I looked at my PM and gave my character name and role specifics. I didn't put a whole lot of thought into the format.

Regarding my still being alive: I'm the first to admit I haven't been of much use in this game and I've also been under suspicion for a lot of it. That's as good a reason to leave me alive as any. Not only that, but I suspect that if the mafia were worried about me outing them as having fakeclaimed, they would have killed me. With everyone having claimed now, I would guess that everyone has claimed their genuine character and role name. None of the role names have been obviously anti-town and looking at the wiki, none of the character names seem to be either. I would suggest that basing anything on flavour (such as Fuzzy's attempt to do so with Ranulf) is thus entirely pointless. I'm also under the impression that with characters and roles not obviously anti-town, my role is fairly weak as PRs go, particularly once I claimed.

DTM: Yesterday I thought you were suggesting I come forward with my result

if I already had an effective guilty

. I think I interpreted you correctly there. My point was that whoever had not already claimed had to think very carefully about what they said during massclaim because I hadn't revealed. If I had revealed, everyone else claiming would have known which of my abilities had already been used and what they were safe to fakeclaim. In addition, what was the point of me revealing my result before massclaim even if I had a guilty?

I think that responds to everything today. Will now be rereading and responding to anything else and posting my own suspicions.