Mini 872: Mafia in Belgrove - That's All Folks

[xvart]

And yes, Malpascp, "paragraphs" are indeed "needed" immediately. Get your ass in gear, sir.

I think Gyro is playing just fine. Then again, I've thought so all game, so I could be biased on this one.

Really don't like how Walrus has both Neto and myself in his top tier of suspects. He's provided very little in the way of supporting arguments and just listing off the two of us along with Malpascp (ultra-easy newbie lynch) is howlingly scummy. That's some heavy-duty bandwagoning. Not only that, but Walrus undermines his own endowment of Malpascp with Best Lynch Award by saying "his behavior could also be applied to a power role, and it would majorly suck to lose a power role day 1." The whole thing reads to me like "Don't look me when the newb lynch flips town!"

Ecto is making me itch.

Great post. I agree with you 100%. I don't quite understand how his behavior could be attributed to a power role, as he says.

xvart.

[Faraday]

Malpascp (1) [afatchic]
Netapolis (1) [Gyro]
Mr.Jester (1) [Raskol]
Gyro (2) [ Netapolis. JereIC]
Malpascp (1) [ Crypto]

Not voting: (6) [Walrus Helmet, Mr. Jester,Ectomancer, Kikichiyo, Malpascp, xvar]

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 deadline hits on

Tuesday 10th November

@ 11am GMT

.

No majority = No lynch.

[walrus helmet]

And yes, Malpascp, "paragraphs" are indeed "needed" immediately. Get your ass in gear, sir.

I think Gyro is playing just fine. Then again, I've thought so all game, so I could be biased on this one.

Really don't like how Walrus has both Neto and myself in his top tier of suspects. He's provided very little in the way of supporting arguments and just listing off the two of us along with Malpascp (ultra-easy newbie lynch) is howlingly scummy. That's some heavy-duty bandwagoning. Not only that, but Walrus undermines his own endowment of Malpascp with Best Lynch Award by saying "his behavior could also be applied to a power role, and it would majorly suck to lose a power role day 1." The whole thing reads to me like "Don't look me when the newb lynch flips town!"

Ecto is making me itch.

Re: malpascp, I would rather see a replacement than a lynch. That's all I meant by that. I was just talking myself through my evaluation of malpascp.

This was Raskol's question to me:

-Walrus helmet hasn't voted since the RVS. I want your top 3 suspects and some kind of case on the top one, Walrus.

He specified "3 suspects" and "case on the top one", so I did just that. malpascp is the biggest standout of this game so he is #1 and I explained him. Ignoring him, the next two people who stand out as suspicious were you and netopalis. I don't believe I have enough evidence on either one of you so I declared a tie.

I'm posting my opinions, and questioning others. I might not be as aggressive as you'd like, crypto, but you set the bar pretty high as far as that goes.

[crypto]

Walrus, it's not about aggression; I just feel like you're actively lurking and going with the flow too much.

Especially compared to your meta. In your two completed games you were much more proactive. Granted, they were newbie games, but it shouldn't have that much of an effect on your play style either way.

Unvote. Vote: walrus helmet.

Also, I'm bored.

[crypto]

Unvote. Sorry, Faraday, I fail.

Walrus, why are you FOSing me and Neto? Reasoning for both please.

[Ectomancer]

Walrus, it's not about aggression; I just feel like you're actively lurking and going with the flow too much.

Especially compared to your meta. In your two completed games you were much more proactive. Granted, they were newbie games, but it shouldn't have that much of an effect on your play style either way.

Unvote. Vote: walrus helmet.

Also, I'm bored.

Your vein of argument would allow for Ectomancer to be replaced for Walrus in that quote. Of course I have your answer if I were, but I wonder why you would choose to vote Walrus for what you seemed to chastise me over. If Ecto makes you itch, shouldn't you be pressuring me to find out why?

[crypto]

I'm more interested in badgering Walrus. And I'm sort of hoping against hope that you'll roll around.

And

I can very much see what you may be trying to do here as town.

So I'm holding back idiotically.

[walrus helmet]

Walrus, it's not about aggression; I just feel like you're actively lurking and going with the flow too much.

Especially compared to your meta. In your two completed games you were much more proactive. Granted, they were newbie games, but it shouldn't have that much of an effect on your play style either way.

Unvote. Vote: walrus helmet.

Also, I'm bored.

Now I'm very confused. In my first game I was chastised, multiple times, for lurking or not posting enough. And I definitely went with the flow too much in my first game; if you actually read any of my first game you'd notice. I had no idea what I was doing. This is some weird flailing at nothing.

Reasons for FOS:

Neto: freaked out while you were badgering him, wishy-washy posts.

Crypto: Insanely aggressive, you keep prodding people, go after them pretty hard, and then switch to a new target completely. You're attempting to get so many different people lynched it's just causing confusion.

[Raskol]

---Ecto, I think you're due for your answer to your question. Whom would you most rather lynch?

---Faraday, are you looking for an afatchic replacement? It's been quite a while since you gave him a few hours, and we haven't had a post from him in 5+ days now.

He's apparently doing this in all his games now, so no reason to think it's scummy, but we need someone who will contribute.

---malcasp is going to be a serious problem. Faraday, would you be willing to forcibly replace him unless he starts posting some kind of actual content?

Until/unless that happens, I think it will be up to us to provide him with some incentive to post.

Unvote

Vote: malcasp

[Faraday]

---Faraday, are you looking for an afatchic replacement? It's been quite a while since you gave him a few hours, and we haven't had a post from him in 5+ days now.

Yes, that's been done. A deadline extension will be offered of a couple of days if needed if I don't get a replacement soon.

---malcasp is going to be a serious problem. Faraday, would you be willing to forcibly replace him unless he starts posting some kind of actual content?

As long as he's posting regularly, and meeting activity deadlines I won't be replacing him. However if he continues to just make 'respond to prod' posts, then I'll start looking.

[Ectomancer]

And yes, Malpascp, "paragraphs" are indeed "needed" immediately. Get your ass in gear, sir.

I think Gyro is playing just fine. Then again, I've thought so all game, so I could be biased on this one.

Really don't like how Walrus has both Neto and myself in his top tier of suspects. He's provided very little in the way of supporting arguments and just listing off the two of us along with Malpascp (ultra-easy newbie lynch) is howlingly scummy. That's some heavy-duty bandwagoning. Not only that, but Walrus undermines his own endowment of Malpascp with Best Lynch Award by saying "his behavior could also be applied to a power role, and it would majorly suck to lose a power role day 1." The whole thing reads to me like "Don't look me when the newb lynch flips town!"

Ecto is making me itch.

Great post. I agree with you 100%. I don't quite understand how his behavior could be attributed to a power role, as he says.

xvart.

I'd love to go fishing with you!

vote Xvart

[Netopalis]

Since it is impossible to get Malpa forcibly replaced and since Gryo seems to have improved himself somewhat in my mind (Still scummy, but not as much), I'm switching my vote over to Malpa. We're going to get nowhere while he's still around, he'd be terrible in an endgame situation and even if he's not mafia, he's a decent policy lynch.

unvote, vote:malpa

[kikuchiyo]

Policy lynch is not a good idea. Faraday clearly stated that they expect more than "responding to prod" posts.

Vote: Netopalis

I agree that active players are nicer to have around than lurkers, but policy lynching on day 1 is poor form with so little information available. I'd rather lynch scum.

[Netopalis]

My policy lynch statement doesn't preclude the idea that Malpa is scum. I felt that he was rather scummy ANYWAY - his posts show a clearly defensive tone when he really wasn't under that much attack - a general sign of scummishness. Further, I'm guessing that the mod's threshold for replacement will be low and Malpa will be able to meet that with a 2-paragraph post every 3 days.

[Raskol]

Much as I hate to say it, I don't think a policy lynch is necessarily a bad idea

if

malcasp isn't going to be replaced by another player. Replacement is still the best choice, but if that can't happen I think I will probably support a lynch---policy lynches on day 1 are fine, I think,a nd here's why:

Day 1 lynches are worse than random for town anyway (the scumhunting that towns do on Day 1 leads to a scumlynch/townlynch ratio that is worse than would be achieved by just rolling dice for the lynch target)---and since malcasp has given no town tells at all, he's without question at least as good as a random lynch. Since lurking is a scumtell, he's arguably better than random. I personally have the point against him that he was pushing a vote on one of my town reads, but that's minor and not something I expect everyone to agree on in any case.

There are some other people I think are better than random too, but most of them are contributors. Even if malcasp is town (which is possible but no more likely than anyone else), we'll never be able to know that as he's not going to post anything which will allow us to get a read on him or help us catch scum. Essentially, he's a waste of a player slot as things stand, and keeping him around is dragging us down.

The usual objection to random/policy lynches day one is that you don't generate the stances and voting records that you'd get otherwise, so you hurt your chances of finding scum later, even if you might get a better chance of a scum lynch D1. But since we'll be deciding to do this relatively late in the day, that doesn't apply. And enough people were taking stance on malcasp's lynch, both for and against, before anything about policy was suggested, that his flip will give us connections about as well as anyone else's would.

Here's what I suggest: we ask malcasp to ask for replacement. In order to be fair and abide by the rules, the mod can't force a replacement for policy reasons, but we can.

So, basically,

malcasp

: either start posting some serious content, or, if you don't have time, then be a decent person and ask to be replaced so we don't have to suffer for your decision to play too many games. If you won't do either of those things, I'm going to recommend that we lynch you today.

[Raskol]

Also: Ecto, am I to take your vote for xvart as an answer to your "whom would you most rather lynch" question?

If not, I'd still like to have an answer.

[crypto]

Okay, I lost a whole post I had typed up. Guess it's a good thing for you guys, though, because now I'm forced into a TLDR version.

Walrus Helmet's defense with regard to activity is appealing at face value, but I'll have to go back again and check it against his two prior games to make sure. I still think he's less aggressive here than before.

(Speaking of which, Wal, unethically cutting short N. 852 is coming back to bite me. Shoulda seen it coming.)

I (still) don't like Wally's reason for voting for me. I'm a little confused / ticked off by how I keep getting accused of racing toward lynches. I race toward pressure and wagons, which, yes

may

later on develop into lynches if I and everyone else think the target is misbehaving. But the only real wagon I've invested in was U.N. Owen, and that was brief and boring given that he stubbornly clung to his play style and then resorted to lurking. I pummeled Neto as hard as I could, but I'm baffled that people are seeing that as "attempting to get . . . [Netopalis] lynched" (WH). Maybe I think of gradations in urgency (pressure vote, suspicion vote, wagon, lynch, etc.) differently than other people, but I really don't see how I was racing toward quick lynches. But Neto and WH—and maybe others; I can't be bothered to fish through the iso. reads—have both accused me of trying for quick lynches. So. Hmm.

@

All

, survey:

1. Did I look like I was rushing for a lynch? If so, why? (Yes, these are absurdly simple. No, they are not trick questions.)
   
2. What do you think of Neto's and WH's reactions to my [call it what you will] play? Neto and Wally, obviously I'm not asking you to self-analyze, but please answer with regard to the other guy.
   
3. Irrelevant to the rest of this post, but bear with me: What do you think of the Malpascp wagon, given that it's more about getting rid of the detrimental/irresponsible/useless/whatever newbie who also has a good chance of being scum as opposed to getting rid of the scummy newbie who is remarkably detrimental/irresponsible/useless/whatever to the town? Good or bad idea for a day 1 lynch? Why?

Reply or die.

Still anxiously awaiting your catchup post, Malpascp.

---

This post is jammed full of shabby English. My bad.

---

Ouch. And, upon computer reboot, it's horribly scattered in light of recent discussion.

And

I need to cool down for half an hour or my brain is going to explode. So I'm just going to bandwagon on Xvart's proposal that, with all do respect to Malpascp, Malpascp request a replacement out if he isn't going to post content. It isn't personal. I'm only in three games and I'm often pressed for time and short on quality analysis, so seven (more than seven at this point, if I read the Queue correctly) just can't work out. Stick to four or less, Malpascp, for your own sake and for the sake of other players. It's much more enjoyable. I'm learning the hard way how easy it is to run out of steam with Mafia. It's mentally taxing by default, and multiple games really rack the brain and turn it into something of a job.

[Netopalis]

My answers to all 3 of your questions can be summed up in two answers.

1) Honestly, I don't see much difference between rushing to a bandwagon and rushing to a lynch. While the intent may be different, the results are often the same.

2) The two reasons you give for the Malpa wagon are not mutually exclusive. I want to lynch Malpa BOTH because I find him scummy AND because I find him incredibly useless.

[Netopalis]

Also, third the Malpa replacement request.

In fact....

Vote to Replace: Malpascp

[Faraday]

foilist13 replaces afatchic, thanks very much!

[Raskol]

Yay!

Hope to get your opinions on the game soon.

[crypto]

Holy wow, these are the best replacements (speed-wise) I've ever witnessed. Mod is win. Foilist13 is also win. Welcome to the game.

Neto, as far as I know you can't vote for a replacement. Lurker, village idiot, and newbie are all perfectly valid cards to play. I feel for ya, but you can't demand that a player be replaced on the grounds that that player is scummy or anti-town or inexperienced or whatever.

I strongly disagree with you that wagon and lynch are the same things. In my experience (well, IIRC), there are typically two or three different wagons on day 1 before the lynch is decided upon. Spitting out a dead body really isn't the singular goal of day 1 wagons. Regardless, though, high five for answering.

[Raskol]

Well, even if we can't vote to replace him, we can take votes like that as saying "I'm willing to vote mal if he doesn't get himself replaced".

He might be more willing to cooperate and replace out for us if he knows that the alternative is death.

[crypto]

Eh, I think a lot of newbies, especially when they're lazy or overburdened (one of which must be the case here), handle pressure very poorly.

[foilist13]

Hello all. Give me a minute to read the thread.

Unvote

while I do.