Newbie 843 (Game Over)

[EtherealCookie]

Reasons?
Yes, because you answer questions directed at you. Dodging questions is scummy.
I'm pretty sure you can read posts very well yourself, so I don't need to spoon feed what you need to respond to.

[PaltryExcuse]

Zach, you still haven't responded to part of my concerns with your play:
1. Your arguments seem to be a re-hash of other people's... though this has changed with a couple recent posts so it isn't as extreme.

2. Your defence on ending conversation in twilight was due to your fear of twilight talk, example Mini 761. However, I see that as a townie-error that could be committed whenever. Why is twilight talk in particular bad for town? If this goes unanswered you basically stilted conversation.

@EC: The timing of your vote seems very opportunistic. I'm sharing some concerns with Zach at this point.

[Zachrulez]

2. Your defence on ending conversation in twilight was due to your fear of twilight talk, example Mini 761. However, I see that as a townie-error that could be committed whenever. Why is twilight talk in particular bad for town? If this goes unanswered you basically stilted conversation.

The mistake was made in twilight in a situation where the mistake wouldn't have been made if twilight had not happened the way it did in that game.

Hoopla made assertions that would have been kept to herself had there not been twilight in that game, and would have ended up not looking as scummy as she did as a result of those assertions made at twilight.

I acknowledge that the choices she made after the fact were not the brightest either though. Twilight was a major contributing factor, but admittedly not everything.

After a lynch has taken place, having an opportunity to talk before the scene is posted just feels to me like an opportunity to get into trouble, cause you have no idea how little or how much your positions are going to change once the flip comes, and having it out there so blatantly is something that one can very opportunistically find scummy.

You may not agree with me, but I feel very strongly that the town in that game may have had a much better shot at it if the mod didn't have the twilight system he did.

You may well never be satisfied with my answers if you don't see what happened in that game the way I do, but I can try to help you understand my position a little better if the above explanation still doesn't explain it well enough for you.

[EtherealCookie]

@EC: The timing of your vote seems very opportunistic. I'm sharing some concerns with Zach at this point.

I suppose it seems that way. It was simply to apply pressure onto him to get an actual response.

[Ojanen]

Tbh I'm not totally comfortable with the timing of EC's vote either. Something about both of them in that whole interaction feels off in my gut, although not changing my overall reads based on just this.
But Zach, by now you're clearly purposefully not talking back to me.
Why? Why do you want to deny me of getting a better read from you?

[Zachrulez]

Tbh I'm not totally comfortable with the timing of EC's vote either. Something about both of them in that whole interaction feels off in my gut, although not changing my overall reads based on just this.
But Zach, by now you're clearly purposefully not talking back to me.
Why? Why do you want to deny me of getting a better read from you?

I'm kinda frustrated in regards to you. I'm not really sure what you expect me to do in this game and I kinda feel like you're pulling me around in many different directions trying to address multiple things at once.

I also don't think anything I say in response is going to change your mind about me, so it doesn't seem worthwhile to me, and it also isn't going to do much to help lynch the player I'm actually suspicious of.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Zach: I can understand that point of view on the twilight thing now that you've explained it better than just the reference of the game. I hadn't thought about it that way.

[Ojanen]

I'm kinda frustrated in regards to you. I'm not really sure what you expect me to do in this game and I kinda feel like you're pulling me around in many different directions trying to address multiple things at once.
I also don't think anything I say in response is going to change your mind about me, so it doesn't seem worthwhile to me, and it also isn't going to do much to help lynch the player I'm actually suspicious of.

But it isn't important what I'm expecting. I would have wanted to interact with you, and you have been more or less holding back that from since I replaced in. I don't really understand what's the problem to replying to several questions at once.
Also, I think it's a bit unreasonable from you that nothing you would say will change my mind on you anyway - I wouldn't be trying to engage you if I didn't think I could get a better grasp on the game doing so. Seeing as I did a 180 on manho resulting from a claim others see as suspicious, it seems a bit of a baseless assumption.

[Ojanen]

I'm btw sternly rethinking tubby.
I stumbled onto a towngame of his and should meta him more; the thoughts he was having there were several levels more insightful.
Holistically speaking the fueling of the piling on me in the beginning of D2 would make a decent amount of sense as partly a deflection from the strange hammer.

[Soyasushi]

Back from V/LA, should go and read up about what happened.

[Soyasushi]

EDIT: Uh, forget it. Looks like mod didn't notice my V/LA after all.

[Kyiv]

Cookie, your recent comments and actions aren't exactly filling me with confidence, and after re-reading your D1 posts and your sudden drop in activity after the first wave of replacements D2, you're on shaky ground.

However, I'm more curious in Starbuck. I know you mentioned you lost your work, but outside of that, you haven't given any more to the game. A quick comment or two of your thoughts is all I really need. That, and you still have a vote on Ojanen, probably left over from your predecessor (who acted similarly to you.) Your thoughts? Or, anything at all from you?

[EtherealCookie]

Sudden drop in activity? I have around 3 posts each page. What are you talking about?

[Starbuck]

Firstly,

Unvote: Whoever my Predecessor was voting for

And can someone tell me who david-villa-7 is?

[Starbuck]

And wasn't Soya replaced by PaltryExcuse?

If she's out of the game, why is she still posting?

[PaltryExcuse]

david-villa-7 was replaced by EtherealCookie

And about the Soyasushi thing, I'm guessing wires got crossed between her and the mod.

[Starbuck]

Day 1

On my predecessor, Meji Fan

I really don't think that Meji's vote in Post 31 is as bad as Soyasushi was trying to make it out to be. I just think she was trying to start discussion, which I would think is fair given her join date on the site.

I really don't get Meji's question towards EC in Post 118. To me, it was pretty obvious that he built more of a case on Wrath than on Tubby. Wrath's lurking didn't really help him in this regard.

On PaltryExcuse (who repalced Soyasushi)

I don't care for Soya's contradiction in Post 32. She point blankly says that you shouldn't be someone at L-3 in Rvs, and then states that she did it because of Meji's "OMGUS". I also don't like Soya's Post 60:

So far, I have to say yernab continues to strike me as suspicious. He posts a long post about what he would do as scum but does the exact opposite, perhaps in hopes that it would throw suspicion off himself. After all, if someone were scum, he would be trying hard to do what his townie self would do. Your scum self and town self should have some sort of difference, but in yernab's case he showed them to be complete opposites, which strikes me as trying too hard to look town.

Then when attack, he got on the defensive, started using the "=P" smiley and went a bit omgus. Also, he's withholding his vote - because he's trying to see who he should vote for so as to not seem as suspicious?

I'm struggling between whether that's a newb town tell or a newb scum tell.

I don't like how she alludes to meta when this is yernab's first game. Depending on his aligment, he obviously doesn't know how he would play as the opposite alignment yet.

@Meji: Smileys to me often appear to be some form of appeared friendliness. The fact that he only put those smileys after being attacked seemed to be "I'll be friendly so you'll stop voting for me please".

I don't really understand how using an emoticon can be suspicious. This game can get heated very quickly, and sometimes the use of emoticons/smileys is crucial for making something light hearted vice a personal attack.

I am not liking Soya's Post 84. She seems to get rather condescending towards yernab. I really didn't feel him getting desperate or defensive. It definitely feels like Soya is trying too hard to cast suspicion onto yernab. I also don't like how she brushes off that she brought up the subject about smileys and then blames yernab for bringing it up when she was the one who made the big deal.

I definitely don't see the personal attacks that Soya alludes to yernab making in Post 122. Re-reading yernab, I don't see him being rude or disrespectful in anyway. Soya has been grasping quite a bit to get a case on yernab with this whole "trying to shift everyone's attention" stuff. I really didn't see him shifting attention. He called her bluff.

Soya's post 175 is odd to me because she thinks that bjl (who just replaced yernab) could really answer the question she's asking about yernab's actions. While yes, the replacement inherits the role and therefore the opinions of the rest of the players on that spot in the game, but you can't expect a replacement to know what their replacee was thinking.

On Zachrulez

Knowing how experienced Zach is, I do not care for his "bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning" in Post 45, and as an experienced player, he seems to be sitting back a little too much for my liking.

I don't like his jump onto Wrath's bandwagon in Post 164. Your whole reason for voting him is because he didn't want to make a scumlist? Not many people at this point had done so either.

On Ojanen (who replaced bjl who replaced yernab)

I really don't like yernab's WIFOM-y Post 50, but for a new player, I like that he's got a bit of a grasp of the game before walking into it.

On Tubby

I really don't like Tubby's lack of substance and parroting others. He seriously has added nothing more than "More posts!" and "I agree!"

With Tubby barely adding anything at all on Day 1, I really am suspicious of his hammer.

On manho

You really felt that the smiley discussion needed more discussion? Why? The use of smileys has nothing to do with whether or not a person is scum.

At this point, manho has not added anything to the game.

Actually, what Tubby said was true. Manho said he liked LoS when he was scum, but then he contradicts himself by saying he's only ever played as town.

This is a very good point.

Manho also seems to just take the easy route with his vote on Wrath.

On Kyiv (who replaced crazypianist who replaced lrd)

I'm not a fan of Crazy's reasoning for voting EC in Post 149. It definitely feels like parroting.

On EtherealCookie

I'm getting a pretty pro-town feel from EC. I like his entrance into the game in posts 116 and 117. Knowing Wrath's alignment as I read through, I can definitely see where he arose EC's suspicion. Wrath's quietness didn't help him as well as his OMGUS on EC in Post 131.

[PaltryExcuse]

On PaltryExcuse (who repalced Soyasushi)

I don't care for Soya's contradiction in Post 32.
She point blankly says that you shouldn't be someone at L-3 in Rvs, and then states that she did it because of Meji's "OMGUS".

I think post 32 was a joke.

So far, I have to say yernab continues to strike me as suspicious. He posts a long post about what he would do as scum but does the exact opposite, perhaps in hopes that it would throw suspicion off himself. After all, if someone were scum, he would be trying hard to do what his townie self would do. Your scum self and town self should have some sort of difference, but in yernab's case he showed them to be complete opposites, which strikes me as trying too hard to look town.

Then when attack, he got on the defensive, started using the "=P" smiley and went a bit omgus. Also, he's withholding his vote - because he's trying to see who he should vote for so as to not seem as suspicious?

I'm struggling between whether that's a newb town tell or a newb scum tell.

I don't like how she alludes to meta when this is yernab's first game. Depending on his aligment, he obviously doesn't know how he would play as the opposite alignment yet.

I doubt she was alluding to meta. She is saying that he is setting himself up to do the town thing: He states what is townie and what is scummy, and then can easily do the 'townie' thing to appear that way.

@Meji: Smileys to me often appear to be some form of appeared friendliness. The fact that he only put those smileys after being attacked seemed to be "I'll be friendly so you'll stop voting for me please".

I don't really understand how using an emoticon can be suspicious. This game can get heated very quickly, and sometimes the use of emoticons/smileys is crucial for making something light hearted vice a personal attack.

I agree, the smiley argument is weak. For some reason though... I think Soyasushi also doesn't think it holds enormous amounts of weight.

I am not liking Soya's Post 84. She seems to get rather condescending towards yernab. I really didn't feel him getting desperate or defensive. It definitely feels like Soya is trying too hard to cast suspicion onto yernab. I also don't like how she brushes off that she brought up the subject about smileys and then blames yernab for bringing it up when she was the one who made the big deal.

She admits the argument you don't like is not a great one, and then she does attempt to show yernab as 'shifting attention'. There were only a few posts on the smiley argument, and yernab then claims he's going to go into a Vulcan mode and says "God forbid we actually try and have

fun

during this game". That's pretty defensive to me, and makes a bigger deal about the smileys than she was.

I definitely don't see the personal attacks that Soya alludes to yernab making in Post 122. Re-reading yernab, I don't see him being rude or disrespectful in anyway. Soya has been grasping quite a bit to get a case on yernab with this whole "trying to shift everyone's attention" stuff. I really didn't see him shifting attention. He called her bluff.

As you said, this game can get easily heated. yernab says she is suffering from 'unwarranted self-importance'. That's not exactly a positive comment, now is it? She took offence.

Soya's post 175 is odd to me because she thinks that bjl (who just replaced yernab) could really answer the question she's asking about yernab's actions. While yes, the replacement inherits the role and therefore the opinions of the rest of the players on that spot in the game, but you can't expect a replacement to know what their replacee was thinking.

But you can take your best guess, as I am doing now.

[Starbuck]

@Paltry - I didn't expect you to answer for her or respond. She's a completely different person than you. I just wanted to point out what I didn't like.

[PaltryExcuse]

Really, I was just giving you a different angle at which to look at her posts. Plus, any concerns you have of her could translate to my slot.

[Ojanen]

I like Starbuck's catch up so far. I like the fact that she posted a half-way update combined to some of the opinions clearly not being guided with later popular currents.
I didn't think Soyasushi's tunneling on my slot was really for valid reasons. I think taking personal offence was definitively part of it, and I don't think the reaction quite matched yernab's words. But the slot is not scummy to me. I'm probably gonna sound horribly condescending here but Soyasushi seems really smart, but she's also a very young player I think, which would fit the reaction.

I hope you get to the end soon - deadline on Wednesday.

[Zachrulez]

By my count of the vote, cookie should still be the deadline lynch. By Hohum's it will be me.

Just another reason I'm not really into this game... but I'm still here, so I'll try to get to the rest of what Ojanen wants me to respond to over lunch today.

Deadline's in like two days, so if there's any other thoughts that you guys want from me, now would be the time to ask. I am presuming that the vote count is not going to be fixed/changed and that I will be dead at that point.

[Kyiv]

Sudden drop in activity? I have around 3 posts each page. What are you talking about?

You're right! I'm sorry

It was the sudden drop in content of posts that threw me off, I guess when I was thinking back those posts didn't quite stand out. Still, it is rather strange you're hopping on a Zach bandwagon after declaring you found nothing scummy about him, and especially after your supposed conviction of Tubby and Manho being scum. I realize that you dislike the question dodging, but after being so thoroughly convinced of Tubby and Manho being scum, would you really throw your vote on someone you think is town? Even to "apply pressure"? And it isn't so much the vote that worries me actually, it's the attitude surrounding the vote; you're acting an awfully lot like Tubby.

Also, by my count, it should be Cookie as well, since he reached L-2 first. I believe Hohum knows that though.... Hmm... *Ahem* TUBBY! Your thoughts? You seem to find Cookie unbelievably scummy, but have been absolutely silent. What are your thoughts on Zach, as well?

[manho]

@mod: can we have a vote count?

[manho]

there will be a no-lynch if there is a tie, which is bad. we should lynch cookie.