Mini 859 - Cleansing of Falls Church - Over

[don_johnson]

cydonia seems to be lurking around deadline. raskol seems to be happy pushing the power role lynch, but doesn't want to seem to eager, and sanjay is acting the way a townie should when someone does what i have done. we are not looking at a conventional lynch and so claiming when i did was not scummy. asking for a completely unecessary full claim is just terrible logic.

nice that you picked up on the ad hom. easy way to play it off. "well, he was just so stupid! anybody would have lynched him."

if i had to choose out of the three aforementioned i would place the odds of them being in drk's mafia at:

raskol 64%
cydonia 48%
sanjay 12%

and for the record, those numbers are meaningless as i just made them up.

That should be "offer me at this time", but that's irrelevant.

no. what benefit does a full claim offer "town" at this time? i am not concerned about "me". but whatever. if anyone can answer the question that would be nice.

[DeathRowKitty]

Note to self: those percentages are all multiples of 4; very scummy

what benefit does a full claim offer "town" at this time?

I'm not unvoting without a full-claim and is voting you largely for refusing to full claim. If you're actually a town PR, it could potentially get two votes off you near deadline. If you're scum, it locks you into a specific role and makes it harder for you to lie about it later.

[Looker]

I was in a rush. I'm sorry.

EBWOP: Disregard the "offer

me

at this time". I stand corrected. Haste helps no one.

cydonia seems to be lurking around deadline. raskol seems to be happy pushing the power role lynch, but doesn't want to seem to eager, and sanjay is acting the way a townie should when someone does what i have done. we are not looking at a conventional lynch and so claiming when i did was not scummy. asking for a completely unecessary full claim is just terrible logic.

nice that you picked up on the ad hom. easy way to play it off. "well, he was just so stupid! anybody would have lynched him."

if i had to choose out of the three aforementioned i would place the odds of them being in drk's mafia at:

raskol 64%
cydonia 48%
sanjay 12%

and for the record, those numbers are meaningless as i just made them up.

That should be "offer me at this time", but that's irrelevant.

no. what benefit does a full claim offer "town" at this time? i am not concerned about "me". but whatever. if anyone can answer the question that would be nice.

That's funny, the numbers part.

I hadn't answered the question because I didn't deem myself smart enough; however, I'll throw my opinion in there anyway. I don't see the benefit of a full-claim right now. If you live past the night, maybe then we can have a full-claim, as it would be somewhat reckless to leave you alive, even if for WIFOM, but, until then, (in which case I'd believe you anyway depending on who we lynch today), I'd say don't claim.

Note to self: those percentages are all multiples of 4; very scummy

what benefit does a full claim offer "town" at this time?

I'm not unvoting without a full-claim and is voting you largely for refusing to full claim. If you're actually a town PR, it could potentially get two votes off you near deadline. If you're scum, it locks you into a specific role and makes it harder for you to lie about it later.

Apparently, DJ, you're the only one DRK thinks is scum at the moment because he's rather adamant about his vote.

@DRK: Is there anyone else you're remotely suspicious of? If so, could we try them instead of DJ? If not and you don't think it's worth the risk, then okay, we'll go from there.

And why are the numbers scummy again...?

[don_johnson]

Note to self: those percentages are all multiples of 4; very scummy

what benefit does a full claim offer "town" at this time?

I'm not unvoting without a full-claim and is voting you largely for refusing to full claim. If you're actually a town PR, it could potentially get two votes off you near deadline. If you're scum, it locks you into a specific role and makes it harder for you to lie about it later.

the votes shouldn't be on me in the first place.

do you think this town is so incompetent as to be able to let me get away with "lieing about it later"? if i survive the night, at some point i will have to produce my results/targets. claiming now allows scum to manipulate town way more than not claiming.

if you find others scummy, why are you not moving the wagon? why are you tunneling on the claimed town power role instead of moving to your next suspect?

claiming generally puts pressure on scum to either get off the wagon or counterclaim to push it through. that is not going to happen here and so claiming does nothing to benefit town as regardless of my role, it is extremely easy to push my lynch through. i would rather be lynched without a claim at this point than give scum more information. they don't know if i am protective or investigative, therefore it creates a more wifomic scenario for their nk choice than if i full claim.

full claim benefits scum more than town under our current circumstances. i have little faith in the voters on my wagon as it is and until i get some support, or a claim request from players i think are town, then you can kiss my ass.

[Furry]

Going to read and post, some of us DO have a job you know. Also to breifly explain why a softclaim is bad

Name a role that does more of a merit to town as just "PR" then full claim *PGO*, well that one is supposed to be claimed post one but *Asetic* and that one really hardly exists and still might be a good early claim *Commuter* ok fine they exist but they are rare.

The reason its benificial for scum to claim just "PR" is they will not get countered. They do not have to worry about making up results. There is no way for them to trip on a claim if they never really made it. Scum will kill town power though, I doubt DJ saying "im a doc" or "im a PR" will give any different results for the night, but a doc claim is much more dangerous.

Enough theory, time to read

[Looker]

you can kiss my ass.

Now, now, there's no need to be utterly hilarious

Going to read and post, some of us DO have a job you know.

Who are

you

tellin? They've got us workin' 10-hr shifts down here and we'll be workin' 12s before long. So much for sleep

---

Things I'd like before deadline if possible:
- A vote from Cydonia
- A vote from Raskol
- 3 butt-naked strippers to "tickle my fancy"

[DeathRowKitty]

@DRK: Is there anyone else you're remotely suspicious of? If so, could we try them instead of DJ? If not and you don't think it's worth the risk, then okay, we'll go from there.

I'm suspicious of others, but I want a claim out of DJ first. It locks him into a role instead of letting him choose one later. For example, if no one dies and DJ claims doctor tomorrow/the next day, no one's going to lynch him without a counter-claim from a hypothetical real doctor. If he doesn't think anyone's going to believe him, he could come out and claim a guilty and get an extra mislynch out of it, in addition to the one he could potentially get today. Basically, I feel you have to earn the right to give a partial claim like DJ did through pro-town play. I'd be willing to lynch:
don (depending on whether or not he claims)
BB
shrine
KoC
CA (?)
Zazie ONLY if none of these are possible

do you think this town is so incompetent as to be able to let me get away with "lieing about it later"?

See above.

And why are the numbers scummy again...?

Something like this.

[Furry]

furry: waiting on your bullshit "i'm waiting to see one thing" bullshit. spew anytime.

Self-preservation against current reads. Between you and DRK, I wanted to see who was going to do what, and if staying alive or persuing a top pick ment more to you two. The current VC kind of kills a lot of what was happening, I fully expected to come back to a 4-4 with throwaway single votes, but its still worth noting.

Neither of you are moving your votes right now, which is a little disappointing as I hoped that someone would move to a small wagon and I could nail down a scum read. However I think the vote on you from DRK is far more legitimate, no one is pushing the DRK wagon, no one has for a while, I just think its there to coast to deadline.

Most of the rest of the discussion seems to be regarding a claim. Full claim is the right move, period.

Im still confused as hell right now over reads. If DRK and DJ are town, I think BB is scum. If DRK or DJ is scum, BB is likely town. This is from the constant "well if no one else..." mood of most players. Whatev's though, time to pull this game in a new-ish direction I think.

unvote
vote Raskol

Slap-dash case coming.

If DJ does not full claim in thier next post my vote is moving though.

Someone please bullet point a case on KoC for me, since im not seeing it.

[Furry]

Furry-Brand Qwick Case on Raskol

Stuff from PB

Unvote :
Vote: Sanjay

How do you know there are three scum?

I was thinking the same exact thing but I didn't want to bring it up, hoping maybe he'd slip again.

Continuing a null tell. 90% of minis have three scum, its not a slip in the least bit.

BigBear's self-vote bugs me.

Far_cry is making me nervous.

Far_Cry's play has been quite strange to me. During the RVS, I have been sitting back and just noting little behavior, and I didn't like things that I saw from Far_Cry thus far.

Far_Cry's post 59 and post 60 makes me a bit uneasy. I think it is a bit strange to failvote and then revote during the RVS. It's a vote that doesn't matter anyway..

Hollow suspicions. All he is coming up with for tells is "strange" and "feels wierd". Not what you try and push a case on.

PB completely drops FC for EC when he [FC] gets replaced (hard to really show this with a quote ok?)

So zazie comes in (for FC) and then PB decides to move to BN, following the player who he was convinced was scum, but is now active and loud (AAL players are favorites for scum to follow).

I'm going to

unvote ZazieR; vote brothernature

I'm pretty sure he's scum.

I've also got an

FOS DeathRowKitty

for his unvoting of CA. You seemed really adamant about voting Confid. Now to change your vote to a lurker is alarming.

Also, I'd like to

FoS ConfidAnon

because the inconsistencies which DRK pointed out are scary.

heh... BN is scum and DRK-CA are his partners apparently by this post. Everything from PB just changed. FC is now town, EC is just *poof*-a-fied or something... he is following the trends as much as possible.

Stuff on Raskol comin, hold on huns, we can swing this.

[Sanjay]

Can you show that Peabody was convinced Far_Cry was scum, Furry? He didn't even vote for him.

[Furry]

Raskol plays the opposite card of PB. He comes in and denounces the DRK-CA wagons, and pushes on the DJ[BN] wagon.

The Zaize thing pushes it over the edge for me though given that I dont think it lines up well with a suspicion of anyone that thinks DJ is scum. Zazie went to town on BN, so anyone thinking BN is scum shouldnt be voting Zazie.

Just noticed we haven't had a post from ZazieR in over a week, though he's active in other threads.

Vote: Zazier

Hopefully a bandwagon will give him some incentive to post.

This is bad. Lurker wagon, of the main pusher of your previous vote. Makes no sense. Especially this close to deadline.

Oh, and for anyone saying ZazieR has an excuse (the "La for school" in the signature)---check his activity in his other games. He has 25 onsite posts

today alone

. If that guy's V/La then I'm a flying raccoon.

So basically---ACTIVE LURKER OMG OMG LYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCH

Zazie plays like this. Have seen it happen, he gets in too many games and does massive post bursts. Anyways, its not active lurking, its not something you lynch on, I still say its argueably a slight town tell for him. I still dont understand the move, especially given the relation of zazie to BN.

Between KoC and BigBear I prefer lynching BigBear as he will leave the most connections behind and has been individually scummier on top of that, whereas my main point against KoC is his position on the wagon and his pushing of a weak anti-town-tell (jester spec) as sole reason for that vote. BigBear's got both of those plus extra.

Really??

So now BN wagon is abandoned, Zazie wagon is abandoned and he is moving on to the new hot topics, vaguely reminicant of his predicessor. I also love how his reason for BB over KoC is having more votes. If they had idenical votes who would be preferable?

unvote

vote: ZazieR

Kill it with fire.

No. Stop. This is couterproductive and scummy as hell. The wagon isnt happening, it goes against your previous reads, and is throwing away your vote.

Also, I'd just like to remind everyone how close we are to deadline.

Says the player who keeps abandoning legitimate wagons for a lurker wagon

I guess I don't care too much, though. I won't be around tomorrow anyway, so you guys can do what you like.

unvote

Die scum die. You take your vote off the player you came in voting, that you moved to the player attacking for lurking, that you temporarily moved to a third party, back to lurker, to third part, to original vote for not full claiming.

I cant follow this logic. There is none.

Now you are going to not vote with a close count, that puts it over the edge to me.

[Furry]

Can you show that Peabody was convinced Far_Cry was scum, Furry? He didn't even vote for him.

Yes

Post 111 – Why didn’t you join the discussion,

Peabody

? Also, can you elaborate on the random vote bit?

What do you mean by joining in the discussion? I felt that most of the RVS was just gibberish. I just decided to observe, and I found Far_Cry to be scummy. My vote on him was not random.

And he voted him in random stage, so the vote was already there.

[Looker]

And why are the numbers scummy again...?

Something like this.

Nice. I luv cartoons.

unvote
vote Raskol

YES!!! Becoming

increasingly

more confident that one of DRK or DJ is Mafia! Now all I need are those votes from Raskol and KoC!!! This may turn out to be a fun game after all!

[DeathRowKitty]

YES!!! Becoming increasingly more confident that one of DRK or DJ is Mafia!

Then why are you voting KoC?

[Looker]

Q: Why does KoC's vote for DRK garner suspicions from me?
A: The only people who know who are town are the Mafia and I felt we were falling into a sort of fallacy in regards to the Confid/DRK debate, a "pick one or the other" fallacy, or at least this is my current opinion. (Which collaborates with my suspicions of Furry, Sanjay, and KoC).

I understand that I change votes alot and that sometimes I may appear rather esoteric, but I try to maintain a consistent strain of reason within my actions, even if the explanation of this reason jeopardizes said reason and thusly said reason cannot be reasoned. Comprende?

There are a number of reasons, all of which can and will be explained when said explanation can no longer jeopardize future intentions.

---

Could that be denoted as WIFOM?

[Looker]

That response didn't offend you, did it? Because that wasn't the intention at all. Reading back over it, it kind of sounds sort of rude

[DeathRowKitty]

You mean your response to me? Yes, it offended me! (Nah, it didn't; it did confuse me for a few seconds though.)

[Looker]

Votecount

Don_Johnson (4) - ZazieR; Shrinehme; DeathRowKitty; ConfidAnon
DeathRowKitty (2) - Don_Johnson; BigBear
Knight Of Cydonia (2) - Looker; Sanjay
ZazieR (1) - Archaebob
Raskol (1) - Furry
Archaebob (0)
Looker (0)
Shrinehme (0)
Furry (0)
ConfidAnon (0)
BigBear (0)
Sanjay (0)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch or we could wait it out until

10 Nov 2009 (Tues) @ 11pm EST

, which is deadline

It's not over just yet. There's still hope.

[Furry]

Still waiting for DJ, if he posts without a claim you can just imagine my vote on him. This is likely my last post for the night, not sure if I get access at work tomorrow. Have to go recheck part of a topo section that I did today since there is a wierd looking jog in the sewer line and do some prelim stuff on an arroyo starting to threaten a line, but I might actually get some access before I get off work.

Worst case scenario I should get back two hours to deadline. So will move as needed then

KoC bullet point case?

[Sanjay]

Here's why I'm voting for KoC:

*No scumhunting so not a very costly lynch.
*Vote for DRK was very lazy and didn't seem that well thought out.
*Unexplained unvote of DRK is suspicious.

The initial vote was based on just those two bullets, so as you can imagine I'm not super enthusiastic about the vote.

Thing is I'm not super moved by your case against Raskol or Raskol's case against don_johnson or ZazieR. Ugh.

I'm not going to be online Tuesday night so I got to decide where to put my vote pretty soon. KoC is probably the wrong choice because that wouldn't really be as interesting as other lynches.

[Looker]

Still waiting for DJ, if he posts without a claim you can just imagine my vote on him. This is likely my last post for the night, not sure if I get access at work tomorrow. Have to go recheck part of a topo section that I did today since there is a wierd looking jog in the sewer line and do some prelim stuff on an arroyo starting to threaten a line, but I might actually get some access before I get off work.

Worst case scenario I should get back two hours to deadline. So will move as needed then

KoC bullet point case?

No, thank you, I just ate.

Off-topic: That's some fascinatin stuff u got there with the topo and the arroyo and the lines. I've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about but it sounds nice.

Here's why I'm voting for KoC:

*No scumhunting so not a very costly lynch.
*Vote for DRK was very lazy and didn't seem that well thought out.
*Unexplained unvote of DRK is suspicious.

The initial vote was based on just those two bullets, so as you can imagine I'm not super enthusiastic about the vote.

Thing is I'm not super moved by your case against Raskol or Raskol's case against don_johnson or ZazieR. Ugh.

I'm not going to be online Tuesday night so I got to decide where to put my vote pretty soon. KoC is probably the wrong choice because that wouldn't really be as interesting as other lynches.

Sure, bussing a Mafia partner, that's plenty interesting!

[don_johnson]

one more vote puts me out of reach.

i'm a cop. way to go geniuses.

[Sanjay]

Why were you reluctant to full-claim, don_johnson?

[Sanjay]

Also, who told Looker about busing?

[Furry]

Off-topic: That's some fascinatin stuff u got there with the topo and the arroyo and the lines. I've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about but it sounds nice.

I do land surveying for the county sewer department, have to keep mapping out the areas for new lines.

Im not countering the claim. Want to sleep on it. Breadcrumbs though?