Newbie 843 (Game Over)

[Zachrulez]

If there's a tie, first person to reach that total is lynched actually.

[PaltryExcuse]

13. In the event a lynch consensus is not reached by deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched.

In the event of a tie, the player which reached the most votes first will be lynched.

EC will be lynched at deadline. So essentially if Kyiv or Starbuck votes for either of the two, they will be lynched unless someone unvotes.

[Zachrulez]

Woah huge content post! Yay.
It's very late in my time zone so I'll look at it tomorrow properly and just respond to stuff directly related to me right now.

I haven't decided. I am not going to be trying to convince you that you're scum if I do decide that it is now am I?

Ugh not the point, why do you keep dodging?
I'm trying to evaluate

you

. You implied you suspect that there might be sinister motives, although you hadn't looked at the case really. I want content from you on it. If you find my motives scummy and how.

Also, one general question: what is your philosophy regards voting? Do you usually mostly only vote if you eant to lynch someone or are you more liberal?

Somewhere in between. I used to really move my vote around a lot, and consequently was heavily suspected when I did that. I try to avoid that tendency more now.

Do you think you have made valid points on Manho? Do you think those points are still valid? Do those points make more sense from a town perspective simply because Manho claimed doc?

1. yes. I might have reached some in the end when was getting sure but I believe most of it is pretty solid.
2. points can be argumentally valid and still false. Scumtells aren't absolute, more like probabilities. I currently believe manho is more likely town, which would make my points as described in first sentence.
3. Not truly, but I don't see how that claim in that situation would be anything than very sub-optimal play from scum.

The only problem is if manho is playing irraionally enough. But anyway I don't think that's something that should be worried about today.

Fair enough. I still don't like how you 180ed so quickly on him, but I think you're in that situation regardless of what your alignment is so I'll let this particular point go.

[Zachrulez]

I reeeeeally wanna lynch Zach.
I'm frustrated with this game in whole right now because trying to get answers from him is like pulling teeth regards to the pace and we're going nowhere with most people dug into their respective tunnels of scumreads (not saying I'm better) and deadline approaching.

Would you lynch this face? [/lame ate]

Zach, are you happy with your play this game? what you describe as "coasting" and stuff? You just signed up for another game, which is entirely all right and obviously totally within your rights but makes me feel you're not even interested of really getting more involved here.

No, I'm really not. Coasting pretty much describes my play here. It's mostly my fault for not being all that interested in the game, (Which has a lot to do with the current pace, and generally low activity levels prior to that.) but I've also been allowed to do it for so long, and no one's really seemed to be all that interested in my input anyway, which is another factor that makes it easier for me not to get fully involved with the game.

If that frustrates you or anyone else I apologize, but that's more or less where I'm at and where I have been with this game for a very long time.

[Starbuck]

Day 2 - Beginning to Page 15

On my predecessor, Meji Fan

I definitely like her analysis in Post 294. I just don't like her constant tunnel on Ojanen/bjl/yernab. There are scummier people around, and she's only focusing there. As a mafia vet, I'd expect more than that.

On Ojanen (who replaced bjl who replaced yernab)

I definitely don't like bjl's comment in Post 231. Finding Mafia is a good source for scumslips for all of you new players. This could either be a breadcrumb or he's trying to come off like the doctor when he's really scum. Meji definitely hit this on the head in Post 234, as well as manho in Post 241.

I definitely don't like his refusal to defend himself, especially with how long he has been around MS.

On EtherealCookie

Throughout Day 1, I found EC very protown, but coming into Day 2. It really slipped away.

His lead off post into Day 2 just reeks of WIFOM:

I was wrong about Wrath. I'm surprised, honestly.

I'm definitely not liking this:

Why is it suspicious to assume first that we have a doctor? Nobody died tonight. It's not surprising someone might think there's a doctor.

It's definitely seeming like EC is trying to cover for bjl's scumslip.

Zach answered this for you in Post 237, and why this is a bad situation.


I really don't like Cookie's personal/ad hom attacks in Post 252 & Post 258. I also don't care for his overdefensiveness in Post 255,Post 258, and Post 299.

You said Zach felt pretty pro-town in Post 264. What has he done that makes you feel that way?

In Posts 268 through 270, you throw suspicion at almost everyone playing. It definitely seems to me that you are just trying to spread around your suspicion so you can jump on bandwagons easier.

From Post 285,

I'm honestly surprised that you don't find Tubby suspicious at all, or at least anti-town. He hasn't contributed anything.

If you are referring to just Day 1, then I could see this. He has contributed a bit on Day 2, but you definitely are trying to paint a scene that has not occurred. Nice strawman.


Statements like this:

No, I am sure bjl is town because I know who scum is now.

Prove to me that you know who's scum and who's not.

Because I'm not blind to scum tells like others.

You've only been playing since August on this site. Please stop acting like you are the almighty god of mafia.

I accidentally claimed, yea.

I definitely don't feel that his claim was an accident, but the other thing to remember is that scum aren't going to claim scum. They'll claim Vanilla Townie. EC did not claim Vanilla. He claimed Townie.


EC definitely is fencesitting pretty hard. He is up for any lynch in Post 322. Although, he's doing his best to distance himself from bjl.

On PaltryExcuse (who repalced Soyasushi)

I'm not liking Soya's jump onto the bjl wagon in Post 248.

Paltry replied to my Day 1 analysis with the fact that he thinks that Soya felt that the smiley argument didn't hold much weight but I'm finding otherwise in Post 261.

I'm definitely getting the feeling of tunneling from soya.

On Tubby

I'm still suspicious of his hammer and general lack of substance Day 1. He tries to redeem himself a bit in Post 256.

because i do not need to defend myself when there is scum about such as yourself

How can you call yourself an SE and talk like this? You are supposed to be showing the new players how to play, not sit here and be zwetastic.

I definitely don't like Tubby's threat towards Kyiv in Post 372. "So this is you one and only warning tread lightly"? Really now?

On Zachrulez

Why, with your experience playing mafia, do you keep parroting off of others like in Post 263? Can you not come up with your own case?

On manho

I'm getting a definite feeling of buddying from manho towards tubby. He goes out of his way to defend tubby whenever he can, but I do like his case on EC in Post 291 and Post 300

I really don't like this statement though:

no, i'm happy with crazy being replaced. the replacement should buy my case instead of yours, if you really have one. but you will have hope in it. but bjl shouldn't be replaced. he was sick, but he will not be sick forever. and now bjl is posting, and didn't ask for a replacement. the only reason why you want bjl to be replaced is that you two are scum-buddy and you want someone else to help defend bjl.

The replacement should buy your case?

And bjl shouldn't be replaced. He just said that he wasn't going to defend himself or participate further. I think it's perfectly sensible to ask for a replacement that will be active.

@tubby, maybe we can lynch bjl today and cookie tomorrow.

Setting up future lynches is a scum tell.

On Kyiv

Excellent case post on Tubby in Post 368

[EtherealCookie]

You've only been playing since August on this site. Please stop acting like you are the almighty god of mafia.

I'm not. I'm just not blind. And I'm going to laugh if you honestly lynch me. Town's just being led around by scum, eh?

[PaltryExcuse]

You've only been playing since August on this site. Please stop acting like you are the almighty god of mafia.

I'm not. I'm just not blind. And I'm going to laugh if you honestly lynch me. Town's just being led around by scum, eh?

This kinda stuff (appealing to emotion) is the kind of thing that will make me want to switch my vote over, EC. In no way am I convinced you're not scum.

[EtherealCookie]

Cool. If you're not convinced I'm not scum, then shouldn't you be voting for me? Anyhow. As I said, it's obviously Tubby, I've brought up my case against him, and for some reason it's not clear.

Vote:Tubby216

[tubby216]

Cool. If you're not convinced I'm not scum, then shouldn't you be voting for me? Anyhow. As I said, it's obviously Tubby, I've brought up my case against him, and for some reason it's not clear.

Vote:Tubby216

and like all day long you would be wrong

[manho]

On manho

I'm getting a definite feeling of buddying from manho towards tubby. He goes out of his way to defend tubby whenever he can, but I do like his case on EC in Post 291 and Post 300

i always go all out to defend someone who i think is pro-town. you can look at Mafia 99 where i start defending Far_Cry from page 11 towards the end of that day against Flave's attack.

I really don't like this statement though:

no, i'm happy with crazy being replaced. the replacement should buy my case instead of yours, if you really have one. but you will have hope in it. but bjl shouldn't be replaced. he was sick, but he will not be sick forever. and now bjl is posting, and didn't ask for a replacement. the only reason why you want bjl to be replaced is that you two are scum-buddy and you want someone else to help defend bjl.

The replacement should buy your case?

And bjl shouldn't be replaced. He just said that he wasn't going to defend himself or participate further. I think it's perfectly sensible to ask for a replacement that will be active.

yes, but cookie is looking for supports, really.

@tubby, maybe we can lynch bjl today and cookie tomorrow.

Setting up future lynches is a scum tell.

it is not a scum tell if there is enough reasons behind it.

[Starbuck]

it is not a scum tell if there is enough reasons behind it.

It is not pro-town to set up future lynches.

FOS: Manho

[manho]

@tubby, maybe we can lynch bjl today and cookie tomorrow.

i was convincing tubby to vote bjl for today then. we both think they are both the scum, and they have strong links, so we probably would re-analyse cookie if bjl flip town, and cookie is very likely to be scum if bjl flip scum. this is not setting up future lynch. and people are always saying "we should go after YYY if XXX flips town" or "ZZZ is scum if YYY flips scum". i don't think my sentence is much different from them.

[Kyiv]

You just contradicted yourself

again

. Twice in fact!

cookie:

#20: said he knew who to look for if wrath flips

town

#21: said wrath should do better if he is

town

conclusion: yernab and bjl is scum, and cookie is likely to be scum and scum-buddy of yernab/bjl.

there are scum interaction between them

. cookie is pro-town and scumhunting well in day 1, but he seems know wrath would flip town in twilight, see #20-21. and then he is confident that he is right in day 2. really inconsisting.

@tubby, maybe we can lynch bjl today and cookie tomorrow.

i was convincing tubby to vote bjl for today then. we both think they are both the scum, and they have strong links, so we probably would re-analyse cookie if bjl flip town, and cookie is very likely to be scum if bjl flip scum. this is not setting up future lynch. and people are always saying "we should go after YYY if XXX flips town" or "ZZZ is scum if YYY flips scum". i don't think my sentence is much different from them.

You've argued that certain interactions are a scum tell (scum interaction). Here, you are telling tubby that you plan to lynch cookie today and bjl tomorrow. By your definition, that is scum interaction. Worse than Cookie's and Bjl's supposed scum interaction.

Second, you argued that Cookie is scum because he was "setting up future mislynches", what with his whole "If Wrath is town, we'll look into Tubby, if he is scum, we look into Crazy". You just now tried to defend yourself using the very same tactic you used -against- Cookie!

Also, I just noticed this third contradiction as I was going back to get that first quote:

@ojanen: bjl is implying the doctor should claim. proof? yes, i am the doctor and i was tempted to claim after bjl's posts. i protected soyasushi last night.

You claimed you were tempted to role claim as a doctor after Bjl's posts, however that doesn't sound like the case when you posted...

congratulating the doctor is always a scum tell, may be a small one though. may be fishing the doc claim, or building up a later doc claim. will examine the wrath lynch tommorrow. it's 2:30 am. really need a sleep.

... right after Bjl's posts. It doesn't sound like you would be noobish enough to fall for a role fishing attempt in that regard. So there are three more arguments you've made that you have now backpedaled on.

[EtherealCookie]

Deadline, Nov 11th, as a reminder.

[Ojanen]

ITT we see Starbuck adore the word "definitely".

I want to lynch Zach.
I do not want to lynch Cookie, PaltryExcuse, Kyiv or the claimed doctor manho, despite of the contradictions.
I might be ok with a tubby lynch.
Starbuck is a question mark to me.
I'm running up a fever and don't have energy for much more than this right now.

[manho]

@kyiv: the bjl-cookie-scum-interaction has nothing with cookie setting up mislynch. and cookie is not scum for setting up mislynch solely, and the bolded "town" is to show cookie knew wrath would flip town, not only for setting up mislynch. cookie set up two future lynches after wrath was lynched, tubby if town and crazy if scum. but i (and tubby?) am pushing for two lynches at the same time, and am happy to lynch both of them today, even before one of them is lynched. that's different. the thing that i was tempted to claim is true, and i remember there is a post between bjl's and my posts by crazy(?) saying the doc shouldn't claim.

[manho]

i really want cookie lynched. vote cookie please.

[Kyiv]

@kyiv: the bjl-cookie-scum-interaction has nothing with cookie setting up mislynch. and cookie is not scum for setting up mislynch solely, and the bolded "town" is to show cookie knew wrath would flip town,

You never ever said why you thought this. You just said it. No one else provided it as a reason, nor did anyone provide any thoughts relating to this. So I ignored it, with good reason.

cookie set up two future lynches after wrath was lynched, tubby if town and crazy if scum. but i (and tubby?) am pushing for two lynches at the same time, and am happy to lynch both of them today, even before one of them is lynched.

That sounds even scummier than before! Now you don't care if they flip town or not? You just want them dead. It's okay to state a suspicion of someone if another person flips a certain alignment, but to lynch two people regardless of alignment is pretty off-putting to me.

that's different. the thing that i was tempted to claim is true, and i remember there is a post between bjl's and my posts by crazy(?) saying the doc shouldn't claim.

I'm still finding it hard to believe since you were soooo convinced that it was "congratulating the doc", you argued against it until Ojanen herself cleared it, even when Cookie and myself both fought against it.

I don't like either lynch wagons at this point. I'm finding Manho the scummiest even with his doc claim (or perhaps even especially because of it). Both Zach and Cookie seem town to me, especially since Cookie is not riding the rival wagon to his own safety, that screams town to me. I also can't find any arguments to why Cookie is scum, just blank accusations that I don't agree with and have fought to death over. Zach is still voting Cookie and he hasn't exactly given reasons why recently, just that he's unsure of Cookie's defense of Bjl (which was way way back). With all that said, I'm not buying Manho's doc claim, nor am I buying anyone's arguments that Cookie is scum. So for now:

Vote: Manho

With that said, how much time do we have? I know today is the last day, but how much longer can we go before deadline hammers?

[Ojanen]

I don't think the exact time has been disclosed.
And I agree it's ridiculously clear Cookie is town, among other things his unvote of Zach screams that.

[PaltryExcuse]

Honestly, I'm a little bit tentative to lynch a claimed doc. I've never been convinced completely at the legitimacy of the doc claim, and manho's most recent post is scary stuff. Cookie did point out two people to look at depending on Wrath's flip... On the other hand it has been blatantly obvious that both manho and tubby have been searching for the lynch of Ojanen and Cookie consecutively.

I'm not liking manho's argument either, but I'd rather lynch tubby than manho. If he's the doc I'd hate to lynch him at this point.

EBWOP: Sorry, that last post was really uninformative, so here goes.
What I think:
manho: Your doc claim came at a weird time, and the only explanation for it, is that you didn't think people could see your arguments as plausible without it. Why?

tubby: Your posting style leaves much to the imagination, and requires us to do the work. How is this not scummy behaviour?

i do not believe it is my job to spoon feed you guys everything. I like to alow you to figure it out for yourselfs it builds pride

On further review, I don't like this logic at all. Making a case is the point in trying to lynch mafia, and the sarcastic comment that it builds pride is ludicrous. Spoon feed? We're asking for explanations, and if you have to spoon feed, I suggest you do. It is way too convenient for scum to just put out possibilities and allow others to make a case for you.

Unvote
Vote: tubby216

[tubby216]

i may be an ass but i am not the correct lynch for today

[PaltryExcuse]

I'm not calling you an ass, I'm calling you scummy.

[Zachrulez]

Does anyone know what the current vote count is?

[PaltryExcuse]

According to my count:

EtherealCookie (3) - tubby216, Zachrulez, manho

tubby216 (2) - EtherealCookie, PaltryExcuse
Zachrulez (1) - Ojanen
manho (1) - Kyiv

Not Voting: Starbuck

[Zachrulez]

Ewww, Starbuck's not voting? I think everyone should be at this point.