Newbie 855 (Game over)

[SaintKerrigan]

You'll notice that I explicitly excluded myself from my suspect list and said why. Accusing me of doing that is a moot point.

That would be right if it was meant for you. But it isn't.
What I was trying to say is that you excluded yourself, which would be reasonable by any one (No one tries to prove he himself is scum), and then other people followed without questioning. Your behavior is expected. Other people following it isn't.

Y, would you do me a favor and explain what you mean by this? I'm not following.

[Y]

Gladly. Everybody thought I was accusing foilist for excluding himself. I was actually accusing the people who followed him without addressing him as a possible suspect. See 251's last sentence as reference.
Notice how Socrates just followed foilist's list, ignoring the fact that foilist himself should be part of the list as well.

[SaintKerrigan]

Gladly. Everybody thought I was accusing foilist for excluding himself. I was actually accusing the people who followed him without addressing him as a possible suspect. See 251's last sentence as reference.
Notice how Socrates just followed foilist's list, ignoring the fact that foilist himself should be part of the list as well.

Socrates corrected himself on that in Post #254. I didn't notice anyone else, so it seems that you were only accusing Socrates, which makes this a null point. Also, night kill speculation this early (or at any point, really), is WIFOM, and not really a valid argument.

FoS: Y.

By the way, you owe us a list of reads.

@ Aldusskel: So, you're reading Town on everyone, eh? Perhaps a more concentrated effort is required?

[Alduskkel]

Yeah. My gut says Y is scum though, I'll have to look into that.

[foilist13]

@Y - I'm confused as to why you are voting me. What I got from your post is that imkingdavid indicated that he would post a case on me today, and as scum, I made the decision to NK him. Of course you didn't actually say any of that though, so is that what you were thinking?

Your claim that you weren't accusing me of leaving myself off my scum list and using it as a possible scum tell is total bullshit. Your whole post in which you said that was saying that you thought i was scum before, and you still do now. Tell me you weren't trying to make me look scummy with that.

My read on Alduskkel changed primarily because in my mind it is extremely doubtful that there were no scum on YankCane's wagon, and I narrowed down those people to two possible suspects, Alduskkel being one of them. To me, that significantly increases the possibility of him being scum.

[Zhero]

While he did vote YC (Leading to his lynch), the player he most talked about and appeared to suspect was foilist. He also commented that he'll be putting an eye on him today.

That added to the general feeling of foilist trying to cover up the mistakes he did, I'll Vote foilist13.

Reading the NK like this is pretty WIFOMy though; in reality it could be the other way around, where ikd was killed to frame foilist. Or the two could be completely unconnected.


CD: I see what you're saying now. It's a bit odd that he refers to post 65 as the advice in question, since it has nothing to do with YankCane, which was the reason the whole advice thing was brought up to begin with (post 162). I think that's where the confusion is coming from.

[CthulhuDreams]

I think it's weird, and that's why I'm agitated. However, their are two scum in the game so I need to exercise some brain power and think about this.

[Y]

@ foilist: I'm voting you because I don't like your posts. Can't exactly put my finger on it, but something seems to be off there. I'm trying to put it into a coherent post, but in the meantime I just want to put my vote where I think it should be.
When I claimed what I did, I wasn't trying to make you look scummy, but to point out how other people dismissed you. When you turn out scum, people will be able to go back and see who ignored you when you acted scummy.

[foilist13]

@Y - Wouldn't an FoS or HoS be more appropriate? It was my impression that that is what they are for. Also your use of absolutes is off putting, but I can't do anywhere with that.

[foilist13]

Yo, lets get some posting going.

@Mod - Can you just prod everyone unofficially? That might get some more activity going, and I really don't want to see this thread die.

[Y]

@Y - Wouldn't an FoS or HoS be more appropriate? It was my impression that that is what they are for. Also your use of absolutes is off putting, but I can't do anywhere with that.

I wanted you lynched D1. YC being lynched doesn't change that.

[Zhero]

Y, a more formal case against foilist would be nice. Between the vague fingerpointing and the nightkill WIFOM, your vote feels opportunistic without something tangible.

[foilist13]

It feels like a "well my gut says" move. Y post a case please. You're the only one who seems to have solid suspicions here, and again, the thread is dying.

[hohum]

Official Vote Count:

Zhero(2): foilist13, SaintKerrigan

CthulhuDreams(1): Socrates
foilist13(1): Y

Not Voting: Zhero, CthulhuDreams, Alduskkel

With 7 Alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: November 28th

[CthulhuDreams]

A formal case on Y and Foilist13 would be good from both sides. My biggest issue from the anti Y guys is that they are all voting Zhero for what seems like a shitty shitty reason instead of the scummy? Y

Y I'm keen to hear from the IC on what is the haps.

Honestly at this point I think the scum team's strat is provoke us into railing ourselves.

[Alduskkel]

Prodded. I'm going to go through the thread and figure out specifically why I have a gut scum read on Y.

[foilist13]

At the moment I don't see anyone scummier than Zhero. I never said Y was a suspect, nor do I have a case to post on him.

[Alduskkel]

I think I was bothered by Y's semi-lurking but he explains it in post 164.
Back to the drawing board...

[CthulhuDreams]

Socrates corrected himself on that in Post #254. I didn't notice anyone else, so it seems that you were only accusing Socrates, which makes this a null point. Also, night kill speculation this early (or at any point, really), is WIFOM, and not really a valid argument. FoS: Y. By the way, you owe us a list of reads.

Looks like suspicion on Y to me.

[SaintKerrigan]

Unvote: Zhero.

He's given me good answers, and he's been more active lately.

Also, Y still owes us a list of reads.

[Socrates]

Proded.

Y makes a vague case at foilist. Makes me go blah.

Still think we can do better than a wagon on Zhero.

What is everyone's thoughts of Cthulu?

@Socrates: I switched because it looked like Y! wanted to lynch Foilist instead and we weren't going to get a hammer on YC151 due to a lack of momentum. I still think (as I did then) the level of misreading going on was slightly absurd. Removal of the bus does make the case substantially weaker however.

YC was at L-1 at the time, and Aldusskel was getting ready to hammer since YC wouldn't claim if I remember correctly. The YC wagon was hardly losing momentum, and if anything it was your unvote that would have been the catalyst for any change in momentum on that wagon. Claiming the wagon was dying because 1 person out of 8 expressed disinterest is lamesauce.

[foilist13]

@CthulhuDreams - So? I'm not making a case on Y, and an FoS is hardly naming someone a top suspect. The word suspect actually bears weight for me, even if not for you.

[Y]

Sorry for not posting wall posts, but the time I have to invest in the game went down dramatically since I signed up for this game and when it started. Anyway, I'll try to put as much as I can in this post.

The reads list I promised:

CD: I get mostly newbie vibes from him. Nothing really scummy. I do feel like he's trying to hunt scum, but doesn't really knows how to. The "not reading the thread" accusation, for example, is not a real accusation, since people pay attention to the thread depending on personality, not alignment. Scum read as carefully as town in order to find points to use as leverage on town-wagons. Scum do tend to be more careful while posting though.

Kerrigan (I'm not using SK since there's a role with the same abbreviation): I like the way he keeps pushing for answers and doesn't let people leave things unanswered. Seems to use good logic.

Zhero: I don't share the suspicions of some other players against him. He hasn't been lurking a lot more than any other player at the time. His posts, while not numerous, seem to have content. I do agree with his claim to leave the "I'm here" posts out.

Socrates: While Socrates started as a seemingly good townie, his later posts changed my mind. Post 251 (The one on which he removed foilist from the suspects' list) really bothers me. The way he tried to shake the responsibility later bothers me as well. Notice how in 171 he identifies with CD, just to accuse him for it later (Post 251 again).

Alduskkel: I have a bad feeling about him, but I think it might just be the bad start we had D1. I would like to hear more from him.

foilist: Well, you all know what I think about him, but I'll try to put something more concrete into it.
First of all, I feel like whenever he gets attacked, he tries to deflect suspicion to some one else instead of actually addressing the claims (i.e the "Not reading the thread" case). I also don't like the way he keeps having an escape rout from commitment. While voting YC, he kept attacking CD and ignored YC's unwillingness to claim. He's your biggest suspect, the one you're voting for, shouldn't you be questioning

him

? I see something similar with Zhero. He keeps pushing his lynch (291) after admitting there's not much in that case (263).

I'm leaving my vote as is, with Socrates a close second and Aldus a possible third.

[SaintKerrigan]

Hmm, I'm starting to rethink my Zhero vote. As I look back he seems less to be lurking than to be inactive. Idk, Alduskkel could be construed as scum, but for the moment I don't have anything that isn't WIFOM. I encourage all the players to take a much closer look at those two, but for now I'm leaving my vote on Zhero.

At the moment I don't see anyone scummier than Zhero. I never said Y was a suspect, nor do I have a case to post on him.

So does that mean you're suspecting Zhero based on "inactivity"? Besides the fact that Zhero has been far more active as of late, suspecting someone for inactivity is never a good reason. I'm beginning to like you less and less, Foilist...

[SaintKerrigan]

Hmm, I'm starting to rethink my Zhero vote. As I look back he seems less to be lurking than to be inactive. Idk, Alduskkel could be construed as scum, but for the moment I don't have anything that isn't WIFOM. I encourage all the players to take a much closer look at those two, but for now I'm leaving my vote on Zhero.

At the moment I don't see anyone scummier than Zhero. I never said Y was a suspect, nor do I have a case to post on him.

So does that mean you're suspecting Zhero based on "inactivity"? Besides the fact that Zhero has been far more active as of late, suspecting someone for inactivity is never a good reason. I'm beginning to like you less and less, Foilist...