Open 177 (Monks and Masons) - Game Over.

[Riceballtail]

The I can't find camn Vote Count

Fuzzyman: Scien, Hewitt, Riceballtail
Farside22: Fuzzyman
Scien: ZazieR
Canada: Nikanor
Maemuki: Wulfy
Riceballtail: ODDing, Farside22


Not Voting: Maemuki, Canada
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Countdown to deadline is here
Lots of love,
Hayl xxx

cThere can be one mason and one scum mason, or two regular masons. Same for monks.

Mods cannot confirm any setup bias. If they're technically doing it right, they would use a dice/other randomization tool to decide which setup they're going to use.

My suspicions are continuing to be confirmed of a ODD/Fuzzy team.

[ODDin]

Well, I guess I'll be referring to you as "it", then.

[Riceballtail]

That question was a simulpost. Not that I'd ever answer it anyway.

[Haylen]

Umm, before we continue this I think I'd want a clarification from Haylen on the setup (or for her to say that she explicitly doesn't want to say anything else, which is also okay, of course.)

So,

@mod: can you shed some light on the probabilities and the way the specific setup was selected?

I used random.org to choose monks and masons first. I did it like: monk/mason/monk/mason. Then I selected the mafia and werewolves in the same way: werewolf/mafia/werewolf/mafia. If the werewolf fell on a monk or a mafia fell on a mason, i chose the next number.

If that makes sense to you. Sorry, it's 1.39am.

[Fuzzyman]

Did the number of scum just get leaked?

[Canada]

So far RBT's comments are just so off. I don't see the AtE at all.

I can see how it could be called AtE. If, in fact, it is AtE, I’d have to say that he is trying to make us think that, despite any possible reasoning we have at this point, it’s a stupid idea that he is being accused of buddying so much.

For all we know the two Masons might both be Werewolves, or the two Monks might both be Mafia.

...

Nothing prohibiting it.

No, but how do we know there are two Monks as well as two Masons? Is there some sort of catch in the role that makes it impossible to have one, and the 1-2 Monks (Not Mafia) in the setup was just a mistype?

Strangely enough Haylen posted the setup as having 1-2 Masons and 1-2 Monks. How can there be only one of either?!

And another tangential: Riceball, pardon the question, but are you a he or a she?

I’m not sure I see the relevance of this – it doesn’t seem to be even remotely connected? Can you explain how it matters? Is it just so you can call him/her a him or a her?

I used random.org to choose monks and masons first. I did it like: monk/mason/monk/mason. Then I selected the mafia and werewolves in the same way: werewolf/mafia/werewolf/mafia. If the werewolf fell on a monk or a mafia fell on a mason, i chose the next number.

So you use random.org to give you the monks/masons? What happened if you got a monk and a mason on the same person? Did you just roll it again?

If the werewolf hit a monk, or mafia hit a mason, you chose who the other werewolf/mafia would be?

Just trying to figure out exactly what you mean here.

~Canada

[Maemuki]

I’m not sure I see the relevance of this – it doesn’t seem to be even remotely connected? Can you explain how it matters? Is it just so you can call him/her a him or a her?

The first is relevant. If a Mason/Monk is a lone Mason/Monk...what is the purpose? Well, aside from claiming and knowing that they're not Werewolves/Mafia...I just answered my own question.

I think it might be correct in assuming that just because one Mason flips scum does not mean the other is confirmed town.

Just because a Mason/Monk flips town doesn't mean that the other is scum either. And we should believe you....why? Why? Whyyy?

For all we know the two Masons might both be Werewolves, or the two Monks might both be Mafia.

...

Nothing prohibiting it.

Why bring it up? (And it would be kind of useless.)

@ Nikanor, do you still think that Canada's the scummiest person on here? You're still with your random vote on. Also, HAPPY BIRTHDAY NIKANOR~

More later or I will be late for school.

[Riceballtail]

For the record, it is impossible in this setup for both of the masons to be scum.

[ODDin]

I’m not sure I see the relevance of this – it doesn’t seem to be even remotely connected? Can you explain how it matters? Is it just so you can call him/her a him or a her?

It's not connected to the game per se, that's why I said it's tangential. I just want to know how to refer to somebody in third person. I know that people can be annoyed if they're referred to as being of the wrong gender, so I prefer to ask. That's all.

[Canada]

It's not connected to the game per se, that's why I said it's tangential. I just want to know how to refer to somebody in third person. I know that people can be annoyed if they're referred to as being of the wrong gender, so I prefer to ask. That's all.

Alright, just didn't sound like it was even remotely connected to the current topic to me. .

~Canada

[Nikanor]

For the record, it is impossible in this setup for both of the masons to be scum.

No it's not. Where are you getting that? From the way Haylen has told us the roles were picked, it's very much possible for both masons/monks to be scum. The likelihood of that happening is only about 2.5%, though, and depending on the faction you're talking about, the probability may be higher (it's more likely for both mafia to be monks than for both wolves to be masons).

@ Nikanor, do you still think that Canada's the scummiest person on here? You're still with your random vote on. Also, HAPPY BIRTHDAY NIKANOR~

I actually thought my vote had carried to rbt, not Canada. Also, THANK YOU~ .

Unvote.

[Scien]

Why are you guys thinking that it is possible to have multiple scum in the mason/monk roles?

You guys got me all confused about possible setups.

Now I need to go back and read the setup possibilities again...

[Nikanor]

@Scien: Example:
After randomisation, monks were found to be players 1 and 2, with players 3 and 4 as masons.
Next, wolves and mafia are chosen. Note that if any of 1, 2, 3, or 4 are chosen to be a wolf, a mason will be a wolf. In this scenario, it is very possible for both wolves to be masons.

[Scien]

Here was my impression of possibilities so far.

There is a vanilla monk and a vanilla mason. Their partner might be a anti-town role, but might not.

There are 4 antitown roles in two groups, but one in each might be part of the monks and masons.

The counts at the beginning of the game are variable because the mod was counting anti-town role/masons or anti-town role/monks as not vanilia scum and not vanilla mason/monks.

So in those cases, by her numbers, the scum lose a person, and the monks also lose a person, for the '1' case in both.

---

Also as an aside due to the way that the mod said she determined roles I don't think it is more likely that a mason/monk pairing has a scum, over the normal chance.

It might have been different if the setup was rolled for first, instead of each person individually and letting the die roll where they may.

[Scien]

Er, I'm pretty sure having multiple masons as anti-town is impossible. It should have been an invalid case and rerolled if that happened.

[Nikanor]

Er, I'm pretty sure having multiple masons as anti-town is impossible. It should have been an invalid case and rerolled if that happened.

While I agree with you, I'm saying that it is possible for both monks/masons to be scum, or even for all of the power roles to be scum. We don't know whether the mod would reroll in such a situation, so it would be foolish to put it off as impossible.

[Scien]

I personally think that Haylen's answer above is only a partial picture of what went on. I think it was an answer that she made when it was late and she was tired.

I think saying that the impossible is possible based purely on that post is probably not wise either and we should get clarification.

[Scien]

I want to hear from RBT about why she thought the mass claim was a good idea in day one.

I also want to hear the reasoning why she is gung-ho about lynching what appears to be outed masons.

[Nikanor]

I think saying that the impossible is possible based purely on that post is probably not wise either and we should get clarification.

I still don't get where you think it's impossible from that post. I agree that we should look for clarification, though.

[Scien]

No... what you are saying makes sense... I just don't think that post is the full picture, so I am inclined to still believe that the double scum setup is impossible.

I think that it was a post that was made late at night (like it said) and probably is a simplistic view of what could have happened.

[Scien]

No... what you are saying makes sense... I just don't think that post is the full picture, so I am inclined to still believe that the double scum setup is impossible.

I think that it was a post that was made late at night (like it said) and probably is a simplistic view of what could have happened.

[ElectricBadger]

I'm really not seeing any of the limitations that are being thrown around, and lynching by probabilities is ridiculous. Hay's explanation was pretty clear as far as I'm concerned. Any non-monk has an equal chance of being a wolf, and likewise for masons and mafia.

Unvote Fuzzy, Vote RBT

for spewing nonsense that can only lead town to false assumptions.

[Riceballtail]

Where did I say I was gung-ho about lynching a mason? I was rather disappointed Fuzzy was one, but I'm too sure he's scum to think of anything else.

[ODDin]

Gah, this setup discussion is drowning all other discussion. It allows people post and discuss something seemingly relevant without actually participating in the real game.

Scien, you still haven't really said what you think about the argument between farside and myself.

Also, RBT, can you give us detailed and organised cases on myself and Fuzzy, containing ALL of your reasons for thinking that we are scum, individually and together? And if you're not intending to do so, can you explain why you're not intending to do so, and why you think it helps the town for you to accuse people without presenting your arguments against them?

[farside22]

I can understand's scien's confusion on the roles. I thought reading the role's out here that one mason/monk was town when i see
mason 1 or 2
Now I realize it's possible that both mason's or monks can be scum. Oy my poor head.
In other news I still haven't seen a reason to not keep my vote on RBT.