Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[hitogoroshi]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 1 ) popsofctown
ConfidAnon ( 7 ) - sigma - CSL - roflcopter - elvis_knits - Pads - Vi - Sotty7
crypto ( 1 ) Hoopla
CSL ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
elvis_knits ( 0 )
Energetic Penguin ( 0 )
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 1 ) - Energetic Penguin
Idiotking ( 0 )
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 0 )
Juls ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 1 ) - crypto
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) - charter
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - infinis
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 4 ) - RayFrost - Budja - hiphop - ConfidAnon
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 6 ) - Idiotking - Juls - imaginality - Psychologic Maemuki - hitogoroshi
Total Votes ( 25 )

With 25 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

It's called keeping your options open as scum, and being able to vote anyone and pretend you were there all along actually works if no one notices.

Then

notice

if and when it happens. There are enough real accusations flying around to avoid 'I bet x will' ones.

I'm reading crypto and maemuki as two townies attacking each other. Both have shown enough independence in their games that them being scum doesn't fit at the moment.

Could you please define 'independence in their games?'

Mae, I think those questions (post 348, two above me) are a little unfair in terms of information density/length. You should try to make your questions to crypto as long as the responses you expect (e.g, put supporting examples with your question if you want supporting examples in his answer.) This is doubly true with the word count limit - we should try to respect the other players here.

Also I may as well take off my random vote here.

unvote

.

[Maemuki]

Mae, I think those questions (post 348, two above me) are a little unfair in terms of information density/length. You should try to make your questions to crypto as long as the responses you expect (e.g, put supporting examples with your question if you want supporting examples in his answer.) This is doubly true with the word count limit - we should try to respect the other players here.

Eeh, I guess so. I still want to see what he says about what e_k said. It doesn't even need to answer my questions - I just want to see what he thinks. It's a bit weird for someone to ignore people that suspect him, don't you think? (He used about 560 words on his post, after the mod changed the rules. He could at least mention it, could he not? You can do quite a lot with 180 words, I think.)

In that one post, you asked SpyreX questions. Were you satisfied with his answers? How?

As far as I know, he didn't answer them. I'm still waiting.

[elvis_knits]

Hitogorishi just unvoted his random vote on page 15 and failed to place a real vote.

Add him to the scum list.

[hitogoroshi]

Just "hito" will be fine, I know it's not the easiest thing to type out the whole name.

And what can I say? I'm not a big fan of voting on early bandwagons (I can appreciate the concept of pressuring but imho it more proves whether or not the player has good nerves than anything about alignment when done so early in the game) and there's no one else who I could justify a case against so my vote would be more or less shouting into the wind. I mean I could vote for who I think is scummiest right now but my 'case' would basicially just be an angry face and unlikely to attract others to my cause. :p

[Infinis]

Don't Like hoopla's "oh this is the current wagon" methodology it takes away any responsibility on his part. That said when he abandoned the method for his recent vote is good start in taking responsibility for his votes.

I liked confid's 240

I found Crypto case on Mae very good so much so

Unvote. Vote: Mae

Mae's answer to the case is dismissive of valid points and an appeal to emotion. see the end of Crypto's 341, rest is meta garbage.

The case on SpyreX is meta. To then attack his defense of a meta-attack of his play is so awful.

I'm going to reread again, looking at confid because after two readings I don't see the case.

[elvis_knits]

Who do you think is scummiest?

[elvis_knits]

355 was @ hito

[Maemuki]

@ Infinis, why is crypto's case very good?

(Grr. I hate when people just don't give the reason.)

[Infinis]

@ Infinis, why is crypto's case very good?

(Grr. I hate when people just don't give the reason.)

You promised a read/reread repeatedly on Spyrex and then instead of answering what you thought of Spyrex you went after someone else.

It's all in Crypto's case on you.

[Infinis]

Who do you think is scummiest?

mae followed by sigma, it's real close.

[Maemuki]

And why did you buy Crypto's case and completely drop the sigma case?

(Don't answer with "I find you scummier". Seriously. I know that you find me scummier - why would you vote me otherwise?)

[Idiotking]

Sigh. Finished rereading. You people are evil, I hate you

all

, do you hear me?


Hiphop bothers me. Something about his posts (they're mostly one-line and have very little substance) makes me think he's just trying to float by without actually doing anything substantial. For example, his last two posts are more concerned with chiding people for word count rather than doing something useful. It just seems like active lurking to me, even though the game's only been going for this long.

I don't think Crypto is suspicious either, given my knowledge of his play style. He does tend to make a whole lot of pretty meaningless posts, though when he does make a meaningful one it is substantial.

I don't know about either ConfidAnon for SpyreX. I just... I can't get a read on either of them. Then again, I do tend to have difficulty seeing scumminess on rereads, so maybe I'll be able to get a picture of them now that I'm available to post.

[Idiotking]

Hmm... the Crypto comment doesn't seem to be worded well after the Hiphop one, but drop the "either" and it works.

[roflcopter]

INFINIS:

infinis post 288, you make a lot of fair assessments but don't seem to draw any conclusions based on them, at least none you're telling us about beyond your vote being nonrandom.

does vi's 71 give you and bearing on his alignment? if so, what bearing? if not, why did you bring it up?

what is your opinion of spyrex?

which of confidanon/csl do you think is more likely to be scum, and why is sigma a better lynch candidate than either of them?

[roflcopter]

hiphop is textbook active lurking. scummy.

too many people are finding confidanon scummy then finding reasons not to vote for him / vote for somebody else. i guess the scum haven't realized they should be bussing already.

redcoyote gets lynched next when confid flips scum

[CSL]

roflcopter, why do you seem convincing?

[Infinis]

I'm a little disappointed that my non-random vote hasn't gotten any feedback yet. I'll go into the reasoning a little more: I have some decent meta on those who I've played with before (anyone in Mini 839 + CSL). Furthermore, the person who I vote for is more likely to be wagoned than any of the people I don't for. Furthermore, if someone gets wagoned in the early game, it will give me something to go on for a person that I don't have any meta experience for. So, I voted for someone I hadn't played with before.

@anyone who will answer: Do you agree with my reasoning?

It's okay; people are having fun stalling the beginning of the game for no evident reason~

I understand and agree with your reasoning.
Do you think this ruse will succeed now that you've explained it?
What were you

hoping

would happen?

sigma was using meta to justify his random vote and to supposedly set up a trap. (Let me be brief, random is not semi-random, less random, not really random, random is random. Just as something can't be more unique than something else.) So choosing from players he's never played with is random, the set of choices is narrowed down due to needing meta to examine.

Vi uses charged language ie "stalling" to end the RVS, which as of sigma's failed trap, I believe it was. Game theory argument about how long the RVS should be is fine and good, but I didn't like the tone.

Meta arguments should have little bearing in a game; it puts too much onus on reading even more threads and contrasting dozens if not hundreds of posts. I bring up 71 to point out that Vi may mean well, that remains to be seen.

Spyrex has not been scummy he is trying to defend his play from other games in other situations. It's easy to then attack him as scummy, because it comes down to he said/she said and from what I've read in the thread Vi is considered an analyst and as such his word carries more weight.

Vi seemed only to nominally to go after sigma for the failed trap, which makes me think it was a scum buddy helping him out of a jam.

Forcing the confid/csl wagons down everyone's throats is not productive. You have plurality voting so there will be a lynch. If you want to wagon them to a claim, I'll have to reread to see if either said anything scummy enough to warrant the pressure.

Lastly redcoyote seems town to me total disagree with you roflcopter

[Vi]

Vi uses charged language ie "stalling" to end the RVS, which as of sigma's failed trap, I believe it was. Game theory argument about how long the RVS should be is fine and good, but I didn't like the tone.

Does this make me more likely to be scum?

Vi seemed only to nominally to go after sigma for the failed trap, which makes me think it was a scum buddy helping him out of a jam.

Pray tell what "jam" you're referring to here.
Also pray tell why sigma's gambit was worth following up in an accusatory manner, which you seem to be accusing me of not doing.

At the very least I don't think you're scum.

----

@Maemuki: So why is SpyreX still a neutral read to you?

----

hiphop is textbook active lurking. scummy.

What do you think of SpyreX's reason for seeing him as Town?

[Infinis]

And why did you buy Crypto's case and completely drop the sigma case?

(Don't answer with "I find you scummier". Seriously. I know that you find me scummier - why would you vote me otherwise?)

And what part of Crypto's case do you not understand?

As to my case on sigma, it can wait, you have more posts and more interactions and there for more evidence to go on.

And no reread yet, probably post something tuesday that is if the thread doesnt explode by 100-200 more posts by then, in which case I will try and get it done sooner

[Infinis]

Vi uses charged language ie "stalling" to end the RVS, which as of sigma's failed trap, I believe it was. Game theory argument about how long the RVS should be is fine and good, but I didn't like the tone.

Does this make me more likely to be scum?

Vi seemed only to nominally to go after sigma for the failed trap, which makes me think it was a scum buddy helping him out of a jam.

Pray tell what "jam" you're referring to here.
Also pray tell why sigma's gambit was worth following up in an accusatory manner, which you seem to be accusing me of not doing.

At the very least I don't think you're scum.

Your tone from my perspective in a majority of your posts is accusatory, not probative. The jam is the early sprung "trap" and people starting to comment on it, drawing attention to sigma which is what he wanted supposedly in the first place. So by you pitching softball questions, sigma can escape with little damage for the failed trap and ending the RVS all in one. Sigma looked like scum trying to seem like they are scum hunting. By springing the trap early(insanely early), it lets everyone say "ah it was an overeager townie mistake", instead of scum obfuscation.

As to your scumminess, I'm neutral on you right now.

[Hoopla]

ConfidAnon, crypto or SpyreX need to be lynched by page 25. If day 1 goes any longer than that, I think I'm going to cry.

[CSL]

ConfidAnon, crypto or SpyreX need to be lynched by page 25. If day 1 goes any longer than that, I think I'm going to cry.

Agreed.

[Energetic Penguin]

I'm quite suspicous of Hoopola, His continuing wagon hopping and following the crowd like a lemming is scummy.

[elvis_knits]

We just need 6 more on confidanon.

[Vi]

I'm quite suspicous of Hoopola, His continuing wagon hopping and following the crowd like a lemming is scummy.

Hoopla is not as ignored as this thread would lead you to believe.

Is there anything else you would like to add to the discussion?