Agreed on all points. Idiotking, replacing out of a game for those reasons is unethical. I'm
Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Agreed on all points. Idiotking, replacing out of a game for those reasons is unethical. I'mhopingyou just didn't understand what is and isn't a good reason to replace out of the game, and are usually an ethical person. I would request that should you wish to replace out of this game that you honestly explain the reason you are replacing out to zoraster and remain in the game if he thinks you do not have an appropriate reason for leaving. Mafia games are commitments to each other player in the game."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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It's a spectrum, and EP is much further down the spectrum than IdiotKing. Somehow I think you'd agree fellow voter.hiphop wrote: @pops and ray- if you guys agree with hoopla, where are the votes.
@RC: although I agree that analyzing ConfidAnon wagon would be a good thing, I don't like you laying out the groundwork for this analysis and not putting a foot forth in any direction at all. Just don't feel like you're allowed to cover that many bases."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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Pads Goon
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I predict a failing grade.Vi wrote:Infinis and Pads have one more post to redeem themselves.
Here's why I don't like Post 213
Roflcopter had read Maemuki as town. VI agreed. Maemuki asked why. 213 is VI's response.
Alright, VI feels that asking questions and demanding answers is something that townies do, so let's run with that. What happens next?VI wrote: You're playing transparently in asking questions and demanding answers from people - digging up the information that the RVS frankly doesn't provide.
Oh, crap, right! VI just said asking questions was a townie thing to do, so he better ask a question.VI wrote:I has a question though.
VI wrote:You've argued both for (174) and against (186) people joining the wagon. Just skimming by I didn't see where you mentioned the result of reading through SpyreX's posts - just that people didn't give what you considered good reasons to vote SpyreX. So what was your individual read on SpyreX?
A mouthful. Let's break it down.
VI is saying that Maemuki has argued for people joining the wagon in Post 174. In 172, Maemuki asked CSL what he thought about the SpyreX wagon, and if he would join it. Here are 173 and 174 between CSL and Maemuki.VI wrote:
You've argued both for (174)
CSL wrote: There's alot of people on it, and I do not support an early lynch. No, I will not join it, because I refuse to feed the fire of an early lynch.
She's asking for clarification on CSL's apparent dislike of early lynches, not arguing in favor of people joining SpyreX's wagon. Where did VI get that from?Maemuki wrote: Even if he's at, like, L-6?
And what do you think about SpyreX?
Here he is saying that in Post 186 Maemuki is arguing against people joining the wagon.VI wrote: and against (186) people joining the wagon. Just skimming by I didn't see where you mentioned the result of reading through SpyreX's posts - just that people didn't give what you considered good reasons to vote SpyreX.
Here's Post 186
(Quote excluded to save room)
Yup, she clearly argues against the people joining the wagon. But she also clearly states that she doesn't see SpyreX's actions as scummy. Plain as day, in the post that VI referred to, is the answer to the question that he's about to ask.
Despite having already given the answer, Maemuki was surprised in Post 218 to hear VI say she hadn't given her opinion of SypreX yet (does that sound like something a townie would forget?), and she posts an answer in Post 230VI wrote: So what was your individual read on SpyreX?
(Quote excluded to save room)
Ignoring the fact that SpyreX clearly stated his reason for voting, this whole post is extraordinarily wishy washy. I mean, really, 'he doesn't give any reasons on why we shouldn't lynch him'? Is there a weaker reason to suddenly suspect someone?
I bet if I or crypto (whom I like better since the VT flip of ConfidAnon) posted something like that, VI would be all over it. But he doesn't follow up at all. Notice there's no actual answer to VI's question.
Why was VI not concerned with getting an answer? How did VI not see, in a post he obviously read, the answer to the question he was about to ask?
The answer is that it was a fake question, designed to fit in with his own stated townie standard. It is quite reasonable to further conclude that the question is fake, because the person asking the question is also being false.
The response was not even an answer, and likely fake as well.
I believe both VI and Maemuki are scum. I think VI's scum buddy got a townie read from another townie(Rofl), and he wanted to echo it. He then made sure to put forth a display that was in alignment with the townie values he claimed to see in that buddy.
I encourage a VI or Maemuki wagon.
Mae has more votes (as of the top of page 17), sovote: Maemuki-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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I still read Maemuki as having been consistently neutral.
Pads, what do you think of Spyrex's alignment? If it's already on record, my apologies."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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Pads Goon
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- Joined: October 10, 2008
Maemuki and VI-free post.
Post 353 is a big pile of nothing that writes its author (hitogoroshi) a license to continue posting big piles of nothing. His following post Post 378 is better, but EP, if town, is an easy target for scum right now.
I withdrew from your wagon and you don't have an inkling? Do you find it scummy that I have not committed you to either Column A or Column B?SpyreX wrote: I'm not sure how many fences one could put together to build a house of fences but, yea. If you asked me what his read of me was after that paragraph I couldn't tell you. And there's an unvote.
My opinion of Hoopla is improving, in no small part from Post 414. He states an opinion that flies in the face of commonly accepted strategy, but defends it intelligently enough. Scum taking a stand like this is rare, in my experience.
@Ray Frost
I am discontent with your meaningful involvement/# of posts ratio. Also, I preferred your avatar with that hungry looking girl.
@Pops
I talked about SpyreX in Post 321 but I didn't come to a hard conclusion, to his irritance, I believe, judging by his quoted response. Allow me to elaborate.
Posts like Post 247 are a good example of what I'm talking about in my Post 321. Some of what Spyre has to say looks like the natural response of a townie being wagonned. Quotes like
andSpyreX wrote: I'd put more than even money on one of those three being scum. This wagon is too good to, even at this point, keep the fingers off of.
for example. Both are near textbook examples of how townies like to get their opinions out there for everyone to see, in case they are lynched, and their opinions suddenly proven to be genuine.SpyreX wrote: On the flipside Mam is solid, sigma (sans start) is feelin town, and CSL's 203 may, in fact, be so bizarre that it goes around the horn to zen.
But at the same time, there are some scummy elements to his posts.
This line does not seem natural. It's fearmongering (and redirecting); trying to establish the idea that an organized group of assailants is leading the wagon. Surely townSpyreX knows that scum are all but certain to not be this openly organized and in-step this early in the game.SpyreX wrote: 3.) Captain Budja and the little wagonneers. Sure it'd be tech if I am scum but when this party seems to be the lemmings and Vi playing the pipes and that's A-OK well awesome.
But it's posts like Post 283 that swayed me the most to take my vote off of him. Scum or town it looks like he's been reduced to his base components, so to speak; his more primal reactions. He's not going to be of any actual aid to the town like that, and he's not going to give me a good enough read to call him scum posting in such a manner.
If I were prodded with a hot poker to choose scum or town, I would say town, frazzled by the pressure that was put on him.-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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*wants to prod a frog with a hot poker*"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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imaginality he/theyRestricted Towniehe/they
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Back from my V/LA. How much have I missed? Oh shi.... *goes to reread*
Wooo caught up!
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stream of consciousness stuff:
pops misdescribes sigma's semi-RV reasoning ('lynch' vs 'wagon')
@charter(109) - how would I say I'm V/LA without posting?
@hiphop(138) - the day i wrote my first post the focus was on going to the All Whites soccer match to qualify for the World Cup (that night and the next day was all about celebrating hence no post till now as I have just about sobered up now)
SpyreX wagon sucks (as of page 9) reasons-wise (fine if it's just for the sake of wagoning)
elvis is right re. calling people town, crypto looks scummy
mae is scummy (e.g. 360)
Hoopla's 417 is good points against IK
charter looks town to me
IK(431) is all kinds of wrong
IK can you point to any completed games you replaced out as scum?
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Gut reads:
Town
charter, hito, Infinis, Pads, Red, SpyreX, elvis
Shifting from Scum to Town
hiphop, Vi, pops
Neutral
Everyone not mentioned
Shifting from town to scum
crypto, Ray, sigma
Scum
Penguin, CSL, Maemuki, IdiotKing
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The lucky winner of a shiny new vote:
Vote: EnergeticPenguin"holy shit this entire time i thought imaginalitys profile was a purple seahorse" - camelCasedSnivy-
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RayFrost Survivor
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imaginality he/theyRestricted Towniehe/they
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I don't think you're obvscum by any means, yet. But my feel for you has shifted from leaning town to leaning scum. (In golf terms if town = slice and scum = hook, you = draw).
Looking at your posts in iso, the reasons below are probably why I have that impression. (As I noted, those reads are what my gut feels were after my reread.)
Early: people overly-criticising you for fluffy posts that seemed fine in the context of us being barely into the game (timewise). You seemed like an easy wagon for scum to hop onto.
Early middle: your self-pity in post iso19. But good points in iso23/24.
Late middle: implication of post 30 is mae is scum this game, but you didn't vote him/her (at a time you weren't voting anyone else either). But commented on IK's rolefishing.
Late: first, a period of lots of questions but not much comment, then, focusing solely on IK until your last post (at the time of me starting my reread) iso46, in which you say hiphop needs to post more but why just him, why not also me for example?"holy shit this entire time i thought imaginalitys profile was a purple seahorse" - camelCasedSnivy-
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RayFrost Survivor
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The problem with mae is that she's breaking what I'm used to for her on bothimaginality wrote: Late middle: implication of post 30 is mae is scum this game, but you didn't vote him/her (at a time you weren't voting anyone else either). But commented on IK's rolefishing.
Late: first, a period of lots of questions but not much comment, then, focusing solely on IK until your last post (at the time of me starting my reread) iso46, in which you say hiphop needs to post more but why just him, why not also me for example?scum and townmeta. I really am just confused with mae.
I forgot about you, tbh. Hiphop was the one I remembered, so I singled him out.
For IK, I really wanted to pressure him. So I did.don't you feel silly now?-
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hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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This is a hyper-rushed post but:
I don't like to vote for someone early unless a). I think I can gather a wagon in support of my cause or b.) I think the offending action is so grievous no case needs to be made. There still isn't anyone in my case that I could get an a-wagon on (I usually don't get a nice solid scumread D1), and that was the case when I responded to e_k. A little bit down that same page ep made a post that I b-voted him for.RedCoyote wrote: hito, 353: This sounds like an excuse not to get your hands dirty. elvis was good to call you out, and even in this post, your response to her attack, you still didn't vote anyone. You say you can't justify a vote on anyone, I call that bs.
And I don't see how it's so scummy that I didn't vote for someone in my response post. After all, if I had a reason for not voting up to that point, that's hardly going to change just because e_k pointed it out!"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
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Juls Jack of All Trades
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Vi Professor Paragon
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What are you suggesting that SpyreX should have done when you withdrew from his wagon?Pads 454 wrote:
I withdrew from your wagon and you don't have an inkling? Do you find it scummy that I have not committed you to either Column A or Column B?SpyreX wrote:I'm not sure how many fences one could put together to build a house of fences but, yea. If you asked me what his read of me was after that paragraph I couldn't tell you. And there's an unvote.
It's not dissimilar from the treatment given to CSL and Idiotking.Pads 452 wrote:I mean, really, 'he doesn't give any reasons on why we shouldn't lynch him'? Is there a weaker reason to suddenly suspect someone?
Actually, I have a Town read on crypto.Pads 452 wrote:I bet if I or crypto (whom I like better since the VT flip of ConfidAnon) posted something like that, VI would be all over it. But he doesn't follow up at all. Notice there's no actual answer to VI's question.
There was no actual answer to SpyreX's question, but since she asked for more information I let that go. I actually did follow up with a trick question (SpyreX didn't answer Mae's questions at all) and then followed up on that... and Maemuki hasn't responded.
That, I don't have an answer for. I use a selective skimming technique that tends to miss obvious things.Pads 454 wrote:How did VI not see, in a post he obviously read, the answer to the question he was about to ask?
Well okay, your stance is at least halfway understandable and I'm fine with your lifespan as long as you stop with the VI treatment. It's not witty and serves to help me like you less (not in terms of scumminess, but on a personal level).
In the meantime, I have a free vote now. In spite of the above I still don't see Maemuki as scum based on her tone, although I won't chase after the people on her wagon. In the meantime, I would like to do somethingelseyou'll find scummy--
Vote: Energetic Penguin(L-8)
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Idiotking is probably a giant red herring.In real life
hitogoroshi doesn't seem to be playing outside his norm, minus the fact that he actually voted for someone.
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Cut by Juls:Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.-
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Vi Professor Paragon
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized CrimeHe/Him
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RayFrost Survivor
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Vi Professor Paragon
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It's no fun when he's doing it to be an a$$hat.RayFrost 465 wrote:Vi, no daykill on pads for the capital I?Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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She uses it to make fun of people who accidentally don't let go of the shift key. I think Pads is being more of a doosh than that."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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simulposted"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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RayFrost Survivor
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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crypto Mafia Scum
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hiphop wrote:( though with you being cryto, I don't know what I was thinking.)Nowyou're talking. I am always right about everything. Everyone else needs to get with the program.
As for wall-o’-texting, I missed seven pages and was then urged to post a case. Normally I agree with you.I realize that I can get long winded and I do try to be as concise as possible. But considering the situation, it had to be done.
(Headdesk.) This entire time I've been calling for a wagon but NOT a lynch, and I've been very clear about it and people started getting worked up about it. Again, calling for a bandwagon is very different from calling for a lynch. Both games may be categorized as "large," but twenty-five players, many of which are quite active, make for a vastly different scenario than sixteen players, many of which lurk egregiously. Anyway, we shouldn't get any more specific about this; mod kills are no fun.hiphop wrote:Also about post 400, don't start that again. Remember what happened last time
RedCoyote, my meta problem with Idiotking is more general. I've played a game with him and I did a meta of him during that time (can't honestly say I remember many specifics), and his play here seems drastically less decisive than usual. He isn't pursuing anyone, he isn't producing nuanced observations/arguments, etc. As for his posting style, it always strikes me as town or scum by turn, but his iso. 1 still isn't anything like what I'm used to. It absolutely looks like he's trying to cover all his easy bandwagon options.
Does post 450 by Pops strike anyone else as a tad contrived and melodramatic?
I don't get it. I just provided experiential evidence that says otherwise. Maybe my experience pool is too small, but I really don't see how this is a bang-up job by Elvis. In fact, I think she's one of theimaginality wrote:elvis is right re. calling people town, crypto looks scummyleast pro-townpro-town players here, if that makes sense.
I've been thinking this about some of my own reads, to be honest, but it's a twenty-five-player game and it appears we have two scum teams. I don't necessarily agree with that list, but we should be more flexible.Vi wrote:Don't these targets look kind of... easy to you?
However, Vi—you caused me to look back at Imaginality's post. And I'm now seriously questioning why Elvis's one post was enough to give him a "shifting from town to scum" slant on me ... because I was the one who brought up the case against Mae, and if you look, Imag has a scum read on Mae. If he thinks Mae is scum, why is he so quick to be leaning toward a scum read on me? I find it especially dubious because I'm baffled that he finds Elvis's case against me so strong, but even without that bias this is a huge red flag.FOS: Imaginality.
Will do a reread for town hunting.-
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crypto Mafia Scum
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sigma Goon
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I sympathize with you, Vi, but I think this is a dangerous line of argument. Sometimes the easy target is the correct target. The difficulty in mafia is separating things like newbishness and white noise from actual scum-tells. If you want imaginality to go further into his reasoning, by all means, but calling those targets easy doesn't really get us anywhere.Vi wrote:@imaginality 456:
Don't these targets look kind of...Scum
Penguin, CSL, Maemuki, IdiotKingeasyto you?
For that matter, do you think that the people imaginality named look like 'easy' scum but actually are town?
Vote: Idiotking
Hoopla's post highlighting his tentativeness is excellent. More importantly, I highly dislike him bringing his 'I always replace out when playing scum' meta into the argument when hoopla only barely touched on him not having any completed games. It's distracting at best, but also has a good chance of being scum trying to justify himself with a major meta argument.
Will be thinking some more about the Confid wagon and how many scum were on it.-
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Vi Professor Paragon
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Lies.crypto 471 wrote:hiphop wrote:( though with you being cryto, I don't know what I was thinking.)Nowyou're talking. I am always right about everything. Everyone else needs to get with the program.Iam always right about everything. I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Notice that all four of the people listed are not VIs. They're allsigma 473 wrote:I sympathize with you, Vi, but I think this is a dangerous line of argument. Sometimes the easy target is the correct target. The difficulty in mafia is separating things like newbishness and white noise from actual scum-tells. If you want imaginality to go further into his reasoning, by all means, but calling those targets easy doesn't really get us anywhere.
For that matter, do you think that the people imaginality named look like 'easy' scum but actually are town?people who are popular suspects now, with the possible exception of CSL - but then he's always a good standby.
I don't even try to read people like CSL and Idiotking until they do something blatantly Townie (by my standards) or scummy (by their standards). I'm voting E-Pengy. My opinion on Maemuki is somewhere between Town and Undecided.Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
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