Perfectionist Mafia - Resultas

[xRECKONERx]

Oh yes, that will do the town good <<

Gonna need a more substantial defence than that if I'm going to change my mind. Why would it not do us good?

Rolefish much?

[Snow White]

Sorry guys. I was busy catching up in another game today due to what i will similarly rant about here tomorrow. Ill be catching up till then and should have a write up from my last post then. Promises promises.

I do realise my names been previously brought up again. Getting paranoid on emoticons, bullshit. Im cop, i was excited to start the game. Now ive been outed ive lost some motivation to contribute in favour of other games but i will try try try tomorrow. And hashing due tomorrow. Im not the most apt toward this game but i still do have my night ability even though not using it last night.

[almightybob]

Also, isn't voting for yourself a rule infraction? You should know this by now.

At the start of each day, everyone is voting for themselves. You should know this by now.

Rolefish much?

No, not much. I want him to demonstrate how the things he's been accused of aren't scummy, and show us that he's pro-Town. That's what I want to see. We're nowhere near the point of him claiming yet.

[manho]

@mod: V/LA until 20/11

will look at dramonic when i have time.

[dramonic]

Yes, but I'm sure you'd agree that scum are more likely to either
1) be on a different wagon in the hopes of saving their godfather, or
2) leap on at the last minute when his lynch is inevitable, to get some bussing in.

3) Also, if memory serves you were the person who voted for SW immediately after her claim and put her at L-1, when she was (at that point) the unCCed cop. Which I believe prompted Reck's threat of "replacing the fuck out of this game".
And you also said that BC's cop claim was far more credible than SW's, but never explained why. To me, neither seemed much more credible than the other.

1) Usually yes, but that 's not a proof against me, that's a proof against, well, the forementionned people.
2) Which I did not do.
3) Well, I explained my vote in ISO 29.
I felt that when BC counterclaimed, his claim was more remnant of the one on the first page. Also, CCing as scum on day 1 is not wise, so I expected the scum to be SW.

On a sidenote, the fact that the GF of all possible roles CC is just ridiculous.

[almightybob]

Yes, but your vote came

before

BC's counterclaim. At the time, SW was the only person that had claimed cop. And yet you immediately put her at L-1.
If your vote had gone on SW after BC had CCed her, then it would be understandable to vote for whichever you felt was less plausible. But it didn't happen that way.

What about her claim struck you as so incredibly unlike the rolePM that it was worth putting an unCCed cop at L-1?

On a sidenote, the fact that the GF of all possible roles CC is just ridiculous.

Agreed. I don't know why BC chose to fakeclaim the same role as SW. Definitely a mistake on his part.

[dramonic]

You are the Police Detective. You can investigate once per night a player, and you will (unless roleblocked) receive a result of their mafia status (Mafia/Not Mafia), however, along with your investigation you must predict your result. If you are correct you can continue using your role, however if you are incorrect you can no longer use your role.
You sanity is not confirmed.

You win if all anti-town players are dead.

Note: Sanity is not taken into account, so if an insane player predicts town but gets mafia it will be incorrect, so they must always (technically) guess incorrectly

Im town cop. Yay!!! Oh wait no... outted town cop. Oh noes!

Ironically this probably explains the over use of emoticons at the beginning of this game. But hey! Any non believers. Lynch me and lets find out! :devil: But frankly anyone who puts any further votes on me should probably be looked at before the community can get their say.

BTW. im aware there is likely one other cop out there as my sanity is not assured. Eep! Plan was to investigate Wicked... someone who i thought had a higher likelihood of being innocent and going from that as my sanity, provided he turned up innocent. If he was guilty i was then going to wait till night2 if i lived so long as to pick someone else i considered highly innocent or highly scum and then work off that. Complicated! But then again so is this role tbh. :/

Anywho! Any questions shoot. But im as sick as a dog atm. Ill get back to you as soon as.

Not... remotely... credible/similar.
Just do the comparison.

[almightybob]

OK.

Names: Town Cop vs Town Detective. Not really a big deal, there's no functional difference.

Sanity: SW says her sanity is not assured, so she thinks there might be another cop. RolePM confirms sanity not assured, says nothing of another cop. This is my first game where cop sanity has been an issue, so I don't know how right or wrong her assertion would be. I can see where she's coming from though. Anyone with more experience: would multiple cops be expected in a game where sanity is an issue?

Night Choice: Ahhhh. I see what you mean now. No mention of predictions in SW's claim, just seems to be taken as a normal cop role with unconfirmed sanity. I hadn't noticed that before, her crazy rambling sentence structure makes it hard to understand so I thought she meant "predict wicked is Town".

[Santos]

Makes no sense looking at her explanation a second time.

Snow White, have you played town cop before, and if so, link please?

[elvis_knits]

Actually, Dramonic is right.

SW seems to have no idea that the cop role needs to predict the outcome of their investigation.

Plan was to investigate Wicked... someone who i thought had a higher likelihood of being innocent and going from that as my sanity, provided he turned up innocent. If he was guilty i was then going to wait till night2 if i lived so long as to pick someone else i considered highly innocent or highly scum and then work off that.

So that whole part is about her trying to figure out her sanity.

But she never mentions predicting the result, and the fact that if she guesses wrong on wicked then there will be no further investigations. If she thinks wicked is going to flip town and she gets guilty, then there will be no N2. But she thinks there will be another investigation for her unless she gets killed.

She shows no understanding of how her role is supposed to work.

unvote dram; vote snow white

[xRECKONERx]

Mod: can we get a prod on Sposh and any other players that need it?

[xRECKONERx]

Also, IF Snow White is faking her cop claim, I could see her as SK, but not mafia. Mafia wouldn't bus their own damn Godfather.

[FaerieLord]

Hah, finally, someone found a good break I missed.

Unvote, Vote: Snow White

[saberwolf]

I am still unsure of whether or not I believe SW fully, but wouldn't it make more sense to save her for a day three lynch?

Think about it, here are the following scenarios:

1. We lynch SW today, she flips SK or scum, we celebrate, and then wonder why no one else has mentioned being cop. At this point if this occurs, the real cop might as well claim and mention their results, and at the very least clear two people, and maybe even three if the cop does a good job.

2. We lynch SW today, and she flips cop. We just got rid of one power role, and allow scum to focus on NKing other people.

3. We lynch somebody else. Then watch the Night results. If SW lives after the night is over, we lynch her. If she dies, then we know that she is either cop or SK, and that scum didn't want to keep her around in case she scored lucky with her investigation result.

I say let SW live. This way scum will let us find out without wasting a lynch whether she's cop or SK, and we stand a better chance of hitting scum. Depending on her results day 3 if she survives, we can go based on them. At the very most she'll live to day 4, but she'll die regardless if she's fakeclaiming.

So yeah, I think SW's lynch today is a bad idea.

[Max]

Five Votes:
Snow White (manho, Snow White, Santos, elvis_knits, FaerieLord)

Four Votes
MrSuave: (dramonic, Mufasa, xRECKONERx, Sposh)

Two Votes:
Sposh (EtherealCookie, saberwolf)
Dramonic (MrSuave, AlmightyBob)

One Vote:
Mufasa: (Sanjay)

8 To Lynch

And you have 7 days.
xRECKONERx - feel free to prod sposh yourself. I'm not sending prods again until tomorrow.

[Sanjay]

I'm crazy skeptical about Snow White, but I agree with saberwolf.

[xRECKONERx]

Saberwolf also fails to mention the whole she-gets-roleblocked scenario. I agree that Snow White is NOT the lynch for today. It looks like it's coming down to Suave and Snow White unless another candidate comes up in the next week. So I'll stick with Suave.

[almightybob]

I'm not so sure we're dealing with a roleblocker, I think the remaining scum are Redirector (definitely, from Mufasa's claim) and Doctor (probably, from the NK flavour).
But anyway, I think we've speculated about that enough for now.

I agree that on a closer inspection, SW's claim doesn't pass muster. However, I think saber is right. We should save her for tomorrow's lynch, if she survives that long.

@Reck: Why are you sticking with Suave? It can't be anything related to Mufasa's claim, because we've established that nothing of Suave's role can be deduced from Mufasa's actions. If you have a case on him that doesn't involve that, I'd like to hear it.

The Suave wagon makes me feel uneasy. Too many votes piled up too quickly based on false, but seductive, logic. I can easily envision scum using it as the perfect cover for a mislynch:

Oh,

that's

how the redirect works? I didn't realise... oops! But you can't blame me, we all thought that...

I think we should look elsewhere. The dramonic wagon has some merit, although now that I see what he was talking about, my suspicions are definitely reduced. I still don't like his contribution to the Suave wagon though. As e_knits mentioned, the "call it gut" line rings false.

Hah, finally, someone found a good break I missed.

Unvote, Vote: Snow White

This bothers me.

FL has done this a couple of times: kept pretty quiet and not contributed much, then reared his head to slap a vote down on a wagon that looks like it might have a bit of momentum.

I'm going back to reread him and see if there's a case to be made.

[Sanjay]

I agree that the deadline has kind of snuck up on us, but I think it is totally off to declare that it is down to Suave and Snow White, especially since:

A) There are good strategic reasons to keep Snow White alive
B) NO ONE HAS POSTED A CASE AGAINST SUAVE

Vote: xRECKONERx

This is what you have expressed as scummy against Suave:

1) A portion of this post:

Suave's #104 is scummy as all get out, but I still don't like the Sanjay vibe a lot more than I dislike Suave using RVS-logic to explain a vote on Sanjay when we have obviously moved past the RVS. I also don't like his #110, where he says there's nothing to gather from the first few pages. If there's nothing to gather, or analyze, explain how I got my above paragraphs? And let's not even mention Suave's #129 where he openly admits to voting SW for regurgitated reasoning... right after he had just said he didn't see anything from what had happened so far literally 19 posts before.

This was a the basis of a scummy read for Suave. I agree the late random vote was a little off, but the latter too points are quite bad. The first one is making a rather big leap from "I disagree with Suave's assessment" to "Suave is scummy" and the latter is rather a strawman if you look at the original post.

2) If you misread the redirector role, Suave look scummy.

I really have no idea why Suave hasn't just caved in and confessed against this absolutely blistering line of attack.

3) It's either Snow White or Suave and you don't want to lynch Snow White

What a terrible justification for a lynch.

xRECKONERx, you are either being very lazy, there is stuff about Suave you haven't shown us, or you are being opportunistic.

[elvis_knits]

I think saber is wrong because if SW is SK and not mafia, mafia aren't necessarily going to kill her. This is early days in a large game. Mafia really benefit from getting those extra kills that an SK will give them. Later on in the game if the SK seems like they are killing off too many mafiates, the mafia will want to kill the SK, but not right now. Killing the SK now makes the game much longer and harder for the mafia to win.

But the town should really want to kill the SK because that cuts out NK losses in half!

Sanjay is right though that there is no case on suave. He's not really contributing much, so in that sense I see him as expendable at best... but I am not liking the wagon since it stemmed from a misunderstanding of the redirector role. After the misunderstanding was cleared up, most people just kept voting suave. WTF. If that is not a sign of a crapwagon, I don't know what is.

Also, I don't know why people are calling almightbob scum. He is obvtown.

[almightybob]

OK, from a quick reread of FaerieLord, here are the times he's hopped on a wagon, and his reasons for doing so:

Yes.

Here, I'll say something else too.

Vote: Snow White

I don't think she's the scummiest to be honest, but she's scummy and deadline is approaching and since we should be lynching, she's the more solid choice from the three.

[Bob's note: Note the built-in escape clause/excuse he includes here]

Ehh, either way. They're both die-ing. It's a matter of who will die first.

So

Vote: BloodCovenant

No (if I had a scum read, I'd just vote)

Either way, I agree

Vote Mr. Suave

(Also, back from V/LA)

Hah, finally, someone found a good break I missed.

Unvote, Vote: Snow White

[almightybob]

Oh, and it should be noted that in the second one in that list, he was pretty keen to stick with SW - right until the last minute, when it was very obvious that nobody other than BC was dying D1.

[saberwolf]

Saberwolf also fails to mention the whole she-gets-roleblocked scenario. I agree that Snow White is NOT the lynch for today. It looks like it's coming down to Suave and Snow White unless another candidate comes up in the next week. So I'll stick with Suave.

I left out the roleblocked scenario because I think that if SW is legit, she was smart and by not investigating night 1, tricked the roleblocker [if there is one] into using up their ability for nothing, hence the ability is no longer available for use.

[saberwolf]

I think saber is wrong because if SW is SK and not mafia, mafia aren't necessarily going to kill her. This is early days in a large game. Mafia really benefit from getting those extra kills that an SK will give them. Later on in the game if the SK seems like they are killing off too many mafiates, the mafia will want to kill the SK, but not right now. Killing the SK now makes the game much longer and harder for the mafia to win.

The problem with your line of logic is you are assuming that the scum know that SW is an SK. From a scum POV right now, they are playing the odds by killing her or leaving her alone. There is the possibility of her being a simple VT and lying about being cop, but I doubt it, so I'm just gonna say it's a coin toss on what she is, and I'm pretty sure the scum aren't gonna risk getting revealed in the hopes that she's SK.

Also, I don't know why people are calling almightbob scum. He is obvtown.

care to explain why?

[xRECKONERx]

@Sanjay: I meant at this point right now, I see Sanjay and Snow White as the only two viable options (other than no lynch, which we DO NOT WANT). For calling me opportunistic, I think your quick vote on me is opportunistic, especially since your "case" against me is that I haven't posted a strong "case" on Suave. It's circular reasoning. Do you see anyone else as a better lynch option?