Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[Hoopla]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 1 ) - Hoopla
CSL ( 3 ) - RedCoyote sigma - Pads
elvis_knits ( 0 )
Energetic Penguin ( 4 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 2 ) - elvis_knits crypto
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 3 ) roflcopter - charter - RayFrost
EtherealCookie ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 1 ) - Infinis
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 1 ) Vi
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - sotty7
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 1 ) - Budja
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 6 ) - Idiotking - EtherealCookie - Psychologic - Maemuki - CSL - Energetic Penguin
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

unvote, vote: crypto

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote crypto

[Idiotking]

Tempted to vote crypto, but it's a reasonable assumption to make in a game this large, isn't it?

As for me, CSL isn't doing anything useful at all.

Vote CSL

Happy now, Hoopla/Ray?

[elvis_knits]

There's no way anyone knows for sure how many scum teams there are. Crypto said it was a fact.

[sigma]

Explain your crypto votes please. All of you who are voting Crypto for assuming that there are two scum groups should explain why they're not voting vi for assuming that there are two scum groups. (I don't think either is a scum tell, the flavor obviously implies two scum groups, even if it's not a certainty.)

[Idiotking]

I don't think his choice of words should be the reason he gets lynched. He could say "There are two scumteams" and it still be an assumption. I'm pretty sure most people have done that before.

[elvis_knits]

There are two scum groups. (Stated as fact)

There are probably two scum groups. (Assumption).

[Sotty7]

In my opinion, the RVS is useless for finding scum other than the fact that it initiates the game, and I don't think it even does a good job of that sometimes. The quicker it ends, the earlier we have actual material (bandwagons, strategy, theory, etc.) to scumhunt with, and the more likely town is to win.

Okay I can understand this argument although I don't necessarily agree with it.

I've been anti-RVS as town and scum, so I don't think I score any townie points for being anti-RVS, necessarily. It could even be a minor scum tell.

What? You do it both as town and scum yet you consider it a scum tell on yourself... So, I'm right?

But is anti-RVS is such a strong scum-tell that it outweighs bandwagoning? active lurking? lack of scum-hunting? That's kind of a ridiculous statement, yet I haven't seen you bring up any other points against me.

lols. It would be a ridiculous statement if I said it. I didn't say anything along those lines however. This is your second misrep of my attack on you.

Despite that I'm thinking there must be additional factors in your case against me, Sotty, because it's frankly not credible otherwise.

Just because you say it isn't credible doesn't make it so. I would be the first person to put my hands up if I felt we where having a simply game theory disagreement surrounding the RVS but it has become a lot more than that. I put my vote on you and you have done nothing but try and reframe my attacks on you to make you look better AKA calling my initial post on you a too townie attack when it was anything but.

Now you claim I was right (“It could even be a minor scum tell”) while putting words in my mouth and generally trying to muscle me down from my opinions. It feels like you are annoyed that I haven't latched onto the easier cases hence your rant about active lurking and bandwagoning. It's pretty laughable actually and makes me think I am on the right track.

---

Spy, I'm not seeing the Bujda hate. Who are your other scum picks?

After sorting the thread to only display CSL's posts, I'm inclined to agree - he hasn't really done a thing yet. EP magnets my vote because of the magic words "for reasons already said" but CSL did something similar in 208 and so as of now I think I would be happy with a CSL wagon and would hop right on if I ever decide to stop voting ep.

Hito I think you missed my Post 480

I was starting to see crypto as townie with just how he was reacting to Elvis and her townie read arguments. While I do actually agree with where Elvis coming from, there is something about crypto's reaction that makes me feel slightly better about him. However, stating for a fact there is two scum teams pretty much wipes that away. Yeah Vi said it before, but that seemed more of a tongue in cheek thing that she does. As if she was goading responses. Crypto's statement was one of fact.

So, can we lynch crypto now?

Are you going to vote him?

[Idiotking]

There are two scum groups. (Stated as fact)

There are probably two scum groups. (Assumption).

I think it's nitpicking to lynch over the omission of a single word.

[Hoopla]

Explain your crypto votes please. All of you who are voting Crypto for assuming that there are two scum groups should explain why they're not voting vi for assuming that there are two scum groups. (I don't think either is a scum tell, the flavor obviously implies two scum groups, even if it's not a certainty.)

He was stating it as a fact, in an attempt to discredit charter's post. I think because he actually used it as a rebuttal, it seems more like a genuine scumslip.

[hitogoroshi]

I don't have the time to do supporting quotes right now - and likely won't until late tonight, if at all today - but this game has been flying recently so let me get a few thoughts out here. AioI, if you will.

I understand what Redcoyote is saying - what makes one little/no content player (infinis) better than any other (CSL, EP, etc.)? I haven't seen a convincing answer to that, and I REALLY don't like Vi's turnaround vote on Red for bringing this up. In fact, going off of coyote's post, why IS it that rofl got such quick support for an infinis lynch among previously bickering players? I want that question answered as well.

Why are we more or less ignoring CSL and ep? My vote stays.

I agree with Hoopla that what could have been an innocent slip (crypto's two scum comment) does gain a lot more ill will when used as a rebuttal. But I also think he's incredibly flustered right now and, as he said,

This has been an abortion of a game for me, so by God I'm going to abuse every chance at ill temper I get.

so there's that mitigating factor.

Sotty, I did miss your post 480 (at least, that section directed at me). It's the specific phrase 'reasons already said' that is my trigger word, and I don't jump on it quite as fast when it's paraphrased - but that's just because I'm not seeing it, and logically they're the same problem. So if a CSL wagon gets going above EP, I'll gladly switch.

[sigma]

But is anti-RVS is such a strong scum-tell that it outweighs bandwagoning? active lurking? lack of scum-hunting? That's kind of a ridiculous statement, yet I haven't seen you bring up any other points against me.

lols. It would be a ridiculous statement if I said it. I didn't say anything along those lines however. This is your second misrep of my attack on you.

Sotty, you're just tunneling now and reading my arguments in the worst possible way. Firstly, I was granting your point "anti-RVS is a scum-tell" to make a rhetorical point. I don't think it's a scum-tell that can be applied to me. Secondly,

I didn't misrep you because nowhere did I say that you're making this statement.

Read my post again.

Let me re-state the rhetorical argument that I was trying to make:

You had stated one reason for voting me: 'anti-RVS is a scum tell.' You hadn't stated anything else. Since you were voting me at the time, either this scum-tell apparently outweighs the scumminess of the bandwagoners, active lurkers, and non scum-hunters (an argument that you just now called ridiculous, mind you, or at least you called it ridiculous when it comes to general scum-tells) or there was something else to the case that you were not mentioning. Does that make sense?

Just because you say it isn't credible doesn't make it so. I would be the first person to put my hands up if I felt we where having a simply game theory disagreement surrounding the RVS but it has become a lot more than that. I put my vote on you and you have done nothing but try and reframe my attacks on you to make you look better AKA calling my initial post on you a too townie attack when it was anything but.

Now you claim I was right (“It could even be a minor scum tell”) while putting words in my mouth and generally trying to muscle me down from my opinions. It feels like you are annoyed that I haven't latched onto the easier cases hence your rant about active lurking and bandwagoning. It's pretty laughable actually and makes me think I am on the right track.

Re-read my posts in the context of my argument and see if you still think that.

[Energetic Penguin]

There are two scum groups. (Stated as fact)

There are probably two scum groups. (Assumption).

I agree with Ek on this. he stated it as a fact, mafia could only be certain of this, so

Vote: Crypto

[roflcopter]

pads, please wax philosophical for me on the subject of infinis, a player you are completely ignoring

that said, its officially crypto lynch time, and we can save infinis for dessert

unvote, vote: crypto

[crypto]

If there’s anything

Mafia 2

hates worse than

Mafia 1

, it’s a town that tries to fight back against its ruthless despotic rule. So, finding common cause,

Mafia 1 and 2 became one

once more…

or at least

until the town could be dealt with.

You can decide the meaning of that and the rest of the narrative for yourselves, if you insist. Me, I would go out on a limb and assume there technically are two families, not one, especially considering it's a twenty-five-player game. The narrative implies one team but becomes rather ambiguous and I have a very hard time believing the mod would write flavor involving two mafias if there really is only one.

But moving on, and returning to my point that there are so many stupid people in this game my brain is going to explode. I could just as well urge a bandwagon for you people for assuming there's only ONE mafia. Read the mafia names. There are—gasp!—numbers. Until we lynch a mafioso and get a flip that says "Mafia Goon" rather than "Mafia 1/2 Goon," I will assume there are two scum teams rather than one. ESPECIALLY when the third dead mafioso is aligned "Mafia ? Goon." Note the question mark. Rather telling, isn't it? Again, I wrestle with the idea that this is all flavor that has absolutely no bearing on the game, especially given the significance of the other aspects of the night 0 reveals (cult, bomb, jester). I truly, deeply apologize I turn out wrong, but until further notice, my money is on two mafia teams, not one.

George Thompkins, the

Mafia 1

Don, has been killed Night 0.
Tina Williams, the

Mafia 2

Don, has been killed Night 0.
The Unknown Goon, the

Mafia ?

Goon, has been killed Night 0.

Again, are you REALLY insisting on lynching me for assuming two mafia teams instead of assuming one, based on that? Are you literate at all? Or is it English that's the problem for you? One moment.

George Thompkins, Mafia 1 Don, on tapetud Öösel 0.
Tina Williams, Mafia 2 Don, on tapetud Öösel 0.
Teadmata Goon, maffia? Goon, on tapetud Öösel 0.

George Thompkins, 1 Don ya Mafia, imekuwa waliuawa usiku 0.
Tina Williams, 2 Don Mafia, imekuwa waliuawa usiku 0.
The Unknown Goon, ya Mafia? Goon, ameuawa Night 0.

조지 Thompkins, 마피아 1 돈, 나이트 0 살해되었습니다.
티나 윌리엄스, 마피아 2 돈, 나이트 0 살해되었습니다.
알 수없는 스콰, 마피아? 스콰, 나이트 0 살해되었습니다.

George Thompkins, the Mafia 1 Don hefur verið drepnir Night 0.
Tina Williams, the Mafia 2 Don hefur verið drepinn Night 0.
The Unknown Goon, the Mafia? Goon, hefur verið drepnir Night 0.

喬治 Thompkins，黑手黨一唐，已被殺害之夜0。
蒂娜威廉姆斯，黑手黨 2唐，已被殺害之夜0。
鮮為人知的古墓黑手黨？古墓群已被殺害之夜0。

George Thompkins, มาเฟีย 1 ดอน ถูก ฆ่า Night 0.
Tina Williams, มาเฟีย 2 ดอน ถูก ฆ่า Night 0.
ไม่ รู้จัก คน โง่, อั้งยี่ หรือ ไม่คน โง่ ถูก ฆ่า Night 0.

George Thompkins, a mafia 1 Don, foi asasinado onte á 0.
Tina Williams, a Mafia 2 Don, foi asasinado onte á 0.
The Goon descoñecido, a mafia? Goon, foi asasinado onte á 0.

George Thompkins, maffian 1 Don, har dödats Night 0.
Tina Williams, maffian 2 Don, har dödats Night 0.
Okänd Goon, maffian? Goon, har dödats Night 0.

Now, is this good enough for you? Or are you still going to assume ONE scum team and hypocritically wagon me for assuming TWO?

Fuck. Damn it. You people.

[crypto]

And once again Elvis does not understand basic concepts that don't even relate to the game of Mafia. Dictionally/syntactically, an assumption is written precisely the same way as a certain statement.

[Maemuki]

You forgot Portuguese crypto. And how do you know that the mod is not making stuff up?

I'll catch up on about 5 minutes.

[crypto]

He was stating it as a fact, in an attempt to discredit charter's post. I think because he actually used it as a rebuttal, it seems more like a genuine scumslip.

Can you put that in syllogism for me? It makes zero sense.

[crypto]

And how do you know that the mod is not making stuff up?

And once again. Yet another instance of either illiterate, lazy, careless, or opportunistic players.

[crypto]

I think it's nitpicking to lynch over the omission of a single word.

Assumptions and statements are not distinguished with qualifiers. It's simply an irrelevant point.

[SpyreX]

Crypto gets a shiny <3.

After this fiasco I'd be down with an elvis lynch as well as Budja. Semantics are sweeetttt.

Although, IF Crypto is a scum (whcih, again makes no sense) I'd put IK in front of a bullet asap.

These truths are self evident.

[roflcopter]

this is what happens when a scum gets wagoned for reasons he believes to be totally idiotic

[Maemuki]

After this fiasco I'd be down with an elvis lynch as well as Budja. Semantics are sweeetttt.

Explain please?

[elvis_knits]

Hmmm, I actually forgot about the N0 kills including two factions, but the N0 kills also include cult deaths when the rules say there is no cult.

Maeby, the Cultist, has been killed Night 0.
Lindsey, the Cultist, has been killed Night 0.
Tobias, the Cult Leader, has been killed Night 0.

Article VII: Roles Possible:

1. Vanilla, Goon, Backup (Cop, Doc, Jail Keeper, Miller, Tracker, Vigil, Watcher, Roleblocker, Role Cop)

Bomb

, Bulletproof (both as town and scum role), Bus Driver, (Sane) Cop, (Insane) Cop,

Cult

, Doctor, Godfather, Jail Keeper,

Jester

, Lyncher, Mason (both town and scum), Miller, Redirector, Roleblocker, Role Cop (mafia only), Serial Killer, Survivor, Tracker, Traitor, Vigilante, Watcher, at maximum one Unique Undeclared Role. Keep in mind that all of these roles can be slightly altered from what you normally expect (while keeping their essential character).

[SpyreX]

Le Sigh.

Unless you think this is going to be a bastardly game the N0 kills ARE saying there is:

No Cult, No Bomb, No Jester, No Priest, No Mayor, No Golden Retreiver AND that BOTH Mafia 1 and 2 don't have a Don.