Newbie 869 - Game over

[jee]

I'm not afraid of a lynch with L-2. RVS leads to discussion, and seeing someone put a third vote on someone gets things going. That is another reason my random vote on Twilight, was not so random. Mulitple votes pressure people.

And now that things have started.

Unvote

[jee]

P.S. I don't see a reason in filling out a form. Experience should not affect how you think of someone in a game sense.

[SensFan]

I have to agree with SensFan's logic on this issue...but only his logic. I'm a little skeptical of Mr. Sens defensive attitude. He did seem a little anxious to pull the attention away from Eli. It there was no danger of a quick lynch, Eli should have had ample time to defend his actions. (Which he kinda did in Post 32, two posts before Sens interjected in Post 34)

I'm the resident IC for this game. My job is to make sure you guys don't get hung up on trivial details like that. It had nothing to do with defending Eli in specific, more just pointing out why the whole logic of attacking Eli is wrong.

[Arthur Dent]

I have to agree with SensFan's logic on this issue...but only his logic. I'm a little skeptical of Mr. Sens defensive attitude. He did seem a little anxious to pull the attention away from Eli. It there was no danger of a quick lynch, Eli should have had ample time to defend his actions. (Which he kinda did in Post 32, two posts before Sens interjected in Post 34)

I'm the resident IC for this game. My job is to make sure you guys don't get hung up on trivial details like that. It had nothing to do with defending Eli in specific, more just pointing out why the whole logic of attacking Eli is wrong.

Point taken. I'll admit I overlooked that fact.

[Ellibereth]

By you putting the L-2 on makes me think that you are scum, pushing the wagon, suggesting other players (1 scum, 1 town) lynch making you look like town and pointing the FOS at the players that lynched. Does that make sense?

No...it doesn't...

OT:

I

hate

random voting BWs. I'd like all of you, Deer, jee and Ellibereth to reconsider this choice, seeing as lynching someone on page 2 isn't the smartest thing to do.

My suggestion: Start actually playing properly and extend a lynch until at LEAST page 10.

Why would you even think that a page 2 lynch would be possible...

Previous experience with Forum Mafia: Some casual games on another forum.
What role do you prefer playing? Townie Power Role
How active are you, on average: Once or Twice a day.

How am I overreacting at all? I'm saying I liked the wagon. To be honest, I looked at ths screen for quite a while last night, contemplating if I wanted to place a fourth vote.

Would you call it scummy/suspicious if someone did place a fourth vote.

...and if I may throw my two-cents in this division on whether putting someone on L-2 is bad or not. I personally don't feel that's it bad to put someone on L-2, even this early. Somebody has to die sooner or later. Would it be better to lynch later, maybe. But at the same point, it gives the mafia more time to manipulate what little facts really do come out early.

Quick L-2 DOES NOT equal quick lynch, and the way I'm reading what you wrote makes it sound like you don't mind a quick lynch.

P.S. I don't see a reason in filling out a form. Experience should not affect how you think of someone in a game sense.

Why shouldn't experience affect it? And what about the other two questions.

@jee, Deer, DLight: Why would you unvote the moment RVS ends, even when the person you're voting for isn't close to being lynched.

[jee]

@Elli, why keep the vote on? No reason.. it was random.

as for questions I dont see why it matters, just extra work for me.

Previous experience with Forum Mafia: few games on other forums, one on here.
What role do you prefer playing? doesn't matter. both of them make you work just as hard
How active are you, on average: Once or Twice a day.

[Deer]

In regards to the vote, I'm sticking with what jee said. I don't FOS twilight for any reason at all (yet ) so there's no need to keep the vote. We've learned some valuable things, I think.

[RPG*Twilight]

Why would you even think that a page 2 lynch would be possible...

Very eaisly. If 3 townfolk vote for one townfolk, then that leaves two mafia to hammer. That didnt happen, and seeing as everyone is active, it's pretty safe to assume that there was at least 1 mafia in that wagon. That's what people are getting at, and that's why it's pretty simple for a page 2 lynch.

You shouting out WAGGGGGGON like youre trying to get people on a train doesnt help. Seems like you were trying to promote it... in RvS stage, of all things. Trying to hurry things along, are we?

I'm the resident IC for this game. My job is to make sure you guys don't get hung up on trivial details like that. It had nothing to do with defending Eli in specific, more just pointing out why the whole logic of attacking Eli is wrong.

First off, I appreciate that you're the IC. But really? What trivial details were we getting hung up on? This whole game is about discussion. Why would you need to step in as an IC and defend her? She made a wagon, I questioned it.

That is another reason my random vote on Twilight, was not so random. Mulitple votes pressure people.

Umm. I beg to differ, two quotes here that kind of contradict this.

First:

So where do these random votes take us?

Then, without an answer, and only two posts later.

Unvote
Vote: RPG*Twilight
Copy Cat. For using the same reason for his random vote, as i did, one post earlier.

But, isnt that a random vote masked as a very weak argument? It doesnt sound, smell, or look like a case. It's just a vote, for really no reason. "The same reason I did" is a pretty random reason, given we posted in the same minute. But then you say that it isnt random, and that it was there to pressure me. But you never explain that until you unvote. Yikes, the contradictions!

Back to sensfan real quick:

To be honest, I looked at ths screen for quite a while last night, contemplating if I wanted to place a fourth vote.

What would be your case against me? Would you really have put up a fourth vote based on little more then the RvS that was there. What information do you have? I'll gladly answer your questions, but if you were really considering putting up a fourth vote, and then dont to "save face", that is noted and very interesting. You had little more to go on then the rest of us, and the fact you were even considering putting me at L-1 with no evidence, is pretty much like putting a vote, and a fairly scummy one at that.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

DarkLightA - 1 (SensFan)
Kami-Sama - 1 (Arthur Dent)
Arthur Dent - 1 (Kami-Sama)
Ellibereth - 1 (RPG*Twilight)

RPG*Twilight - 1 (Ellibereth)

Not Voting - 4 (DarkLightA, Deer, jee, Mr Finch)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Monday, December 7.

[Deer]

Hey RPG, I said "So where do these random votes take us," not jee. Just thought I should clear that up.

[DarkLightA]

I believe that when I spot suspicious people, they are guilty until proven innocent, despite the current court rules. Don't worry though, there's plenty of day 1 left, you'll have a chance to prove innocence, just use it.

Why would you even think that a page 2 lynch would be possible...

Here's a quote from an other-site game I played:

This guy: "A page 10 lynch is insane!"
Me: "Yeah, it's way too little, we've hardly had time to discuss!"
Him: "No, it's way too long!"

Needless to say it was a weird game: the players HATED the unvoting rule (that rule being "you're allowed to unvote"). On top of this, I stopped a page 3 lynch (L-1), which I happened to start by random voting, and everyone band wagoning this poor guy. I opted out and got everyone else to do so too, saying it was ridiculous. I ended up being page 12 lynched, accused of bussing. Neither of us were scum.

[RPG*Twilight]

Hey RPG, I said "So where do these random votes take us," not jee. Just thought I should clear that up.

Well i'll be... It is. My apologies.

That being said, Jee, could you get an avatar please. It'll make it much eaiser to recognize you, as I have obviously goofed.

My point still holds true, sans that quote, though I believe.

[DarkLightA]

That being said, Jee, could you get an avatar please.

QFT

[DarkLightA]

Unvote

@Mod, I unvoted Sens

Yes you did. Hence you are listed under "Not Voting". SensFan, however, has not unvoted you...

[jee]

@ Twilight. yah that wasn't me. you confused me. Also, you don't want to say, "Oh I'm not going to random vote during RVS, so I will put a second vote on someone." That may create suspicion on me. I saw that you had one vote, so I put a second one on to create pressure, discised as a random vote.

And look at where that got us. DISCUSSION WOO.



and yah... avatar will come. i'll pick something random.

On another note,

vote Deer

[Mr Finch]

@ Twilight. yah that wasn't me. you confused me. Also, you don't want to say, "Oh I'm not going to random vote during RVS, so I will put a second vote on someone." That may create suspicion on me. I saw that you had one vote, so I put a second one on to create pressure, discised as a random vote.

And look at where that got us. DISCUSSION WOO.



and yah... avatar will come. i'll pick something random.

On another note,

vote Deer

Well, let's have some more discussion then please. Perhaps you could start by explaining why the vote on Deer? Seems to me we're way out of RVS so you must have some reason for the vote. I think I'm gonna go re-re-read in a minute.

On top of this, I stopped a page 3 lynch (L-1), which I happened to start by random voting, and everyone band wagoning this poor guy. I opted out and got everyone else to do so too, saying it was ridiculous. I ended up being page 12 lynched, accused of bussing. Neither of us were scum.

Just as a matter of interest, was this all Day 1 in that game? Also, what would say is the average page range for Day 1? I have been reading a number of newbie games and they seem to vary from page 3 lynch right to page 15.

At a guess I would say that 8-9 pages should, dependent on decent discussion, should be enough to out the scum and get a decent result.

[Mr Finch]

Sorry for the double post.

Ya know, having done a re-read, it seems to me that Jee and Deer could be scumbuddies. The two votes on RPG (for the wagon), the quick follow unvotes, post 55 & 56 with the pair of them defending their unvotes from the wagon with Deer using Jee's reason and yet there's no direct interaction, almost as if they are trying to distance themselves from each other.

@Ellibereth - apologies for the confusion with that attempted explanation, I think that others have explained it far more simply and better than I so I'll leave it there if that's ok.

As for the questions:

1. As I said, I played a couple of games on here a couple of years ago but nothing since.
2. Role? I don't know. I haven't played all the roles yet!
3. Activity? Far more than I should be! Most lunchtimes at work recently, when I get home from work before going out and checking in before I go to bed (don't forget I am running on GMT!). Have been reading 6 different games in the last couple of days, all Newbie games.

[Deer]

To defend myself and address your points, Mr. Finch:

1. I started the RPG "wagon" for a truly random reason. Just because other people followed should not put me under suspicion, IMHO.

2. The quick unvote was, as I said, done because now that the RVS is basically over, there's no need to keep the vote on. RPG hasn't done anything scummy that I've seen, why stick the vote on him when there's a lot to be said and done?

3. As for direct interaction, I'm not sure what you mean by that. I've had no reason or opportunity, even, to talk to Jee directly so far in the game, and just because I haven't said anything to him proves nothing.

I don't want to go all OMGUS so I'll keep myself unvoted for now. But I feel that your logic & reasoning is pretty flimsy.

[jee]

I have my reasons.

[Arthur Dent]

I have my reasons.

Vagueness gets you nowhere.

[Ellibereth]

@Deer: It annoys me to no end when people unvote the second RVS is over.
If you think his logic sucks and that he's scummy, why not vote for him?. I don't find being worried about OMGUS to be a good excuse.

@Jee: What the hell is that unexplained vote for? Bussing deer much?

Unvote, Vote jee

@Art: Please reply to 54.

In general, about the early bandwagon thing. No one was getting quick lynched. Why the heck would mafia quick hammer?? It's like screaming to everyone , "Hi! I'm scum!"
Would I have minded if there was a quick lynch? No, we would have just caught the scum.

All in all, I feel all the arguments saying it's scummy are all wrong, and I won't be replying about it again unless someone comes up with someone drastically new.

[SensFan]

Eli, what's the meaning of 'bussing'?

No one else answer this, please.

[Arthur Dent]

Arthur Dent wrote:

...and if I may throw my two-cents in this division on whether putting someone on L-2 is bad or not. I personally don't feel that's it bad to put someone on L-2, even this early. Somebody has to die sooner or later. Would it be better to lynch later, maybe. But at the same point, it gives the mafia more time to manipulate what little facts really do come out early.


Quick L-2 DOES NOT equal quick lynch, and the way I'm reading what you wrote makes it sound like you don't mind a quick lynch.

Sorry, didn't realize I had address this. My philosophy is a quick lynch isn't advisable, but it isn't always a bad thing. Does that mean I'm going to advocate a quick lynch? Probably not. I didn't voe for RPG when he was at L-2 because I saw no need to. But had he been killed, it wouldn't have been the worse thing.

Again, somebody has to die eventually, so it's going to be fairly random anyways. I'm very rarely seen a mafia member get killed off in Day 1, so I'm a huge skeptic in believing that we can found out in time. Time gives any side the resource they need to manipulate facts.

On, and since we're past random voting:

Unvote

And jee, if you have your reasons, feel free to give them to us. I know I've been waiting for your reason to show up, because I'm not seeing it.

FOS: jee

[jee]

I was first checking to see a reaction, looking for a scummy reaction.

This early in the game we don't have much to go on, and I looked at this post:

In regards to the vote, I'm sticking with what jee said. I don't FOS twilight for any reason at all (yet ) so there's no need to keep the vote. We've learned some valuable things, I think.

I thought it may be some sort of buddying. So I decided to expand with that and look for other things he has done. SO PBPA I suppose...

#1

Not really a fan of random voting, but...

vote: RPG*Twilight

because I don't like the twilight series

This could totally be his opinion... but he seems to point out that he isn't a fan of RVS. Saw it maybe as planting seeds in minds to associate him with town because he doesn't like randomly voting for someone.

#2

So where do these random votes take us?

Empty post.

#3,4,5
Longer, defending himself on being innocent. I saw this as over defending himself. I don't think really anyone was is accusing him.. after all, he placed the first vote, what could someone honestly be worried with?

#6
The post above. It struck me as buddying. His #4 also had a little buddying in it, defending my 2nd vote saying it was random.

It was enough at this point in the game for me to put a vote on him.

[DarkLightA]

Just as a matter of interest, was this all Day 1 in that game? Also, what would say is the average page range for Day 1? I have been reading a number of newbie games and they seem to vary from page 3 lynch right to page 15.

At a guess I would say that 8-9 pages should, dependent on decent discussion, should be enough to out the scum and get a decent result.

It was all day 1, yes.

I believe in stupidly long days, especially day 1, as it sets a standard that frames people according to NKs. Roughly 15-20 pages, the latter being best. This only applies if people are highly active though, everyone on about 2 times daily, as in my first game, which I think you've ignored in your count: Day 1 ended on page 22.