Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[VP Baltar]

It's my new two strikes policy. You really do seem to be following wagons with no original thought whatsoever.

[Benmage]

It's my new two strikes policy. You really do seem to be following wagons with no original thought whatsoever.

So original thought is a requirement for all wagonvoting... I told you what outcome i'm looking to achieve, and my reasoning same as yours for initial voting...but i need original thought

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I mean, you followed the nacho wagon without even really understanding it and now you're far to eager to jump on ConfidAnon before he has even had a chance to explain himself. If you have nothing original to add to it, I don't see any real reason for you to be in a clamor to join the wagon, especially when your previous post said that you had JUST read him in iso and didn't see any reason to be voting him.

[Vi]

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

whatsup girl...why u make me ask...just state why, you know i'm gonna ask

I laughed IRL.
boy dont u be talkin like this.............if u dont know whats goin down LOL!!!!!!!!

----

Its a decent, illogical offence no?

L-2 isnt exactly a death sentence...but it'll make Con forced to come in and clarify (not lurk it off) and if he/she doesnt, or messes up it'll be a fast D1.

ConfidAnon has already clarified that statement. I even quoted where he did it.

[VP Baltar]

Vi, wanna take a seat on the benmage wagon? Space is limited.

[Sotty7]

Vi, I understand being against a wagon for (among other things) the speed at which it built. But the same thing happened to nacho at the start of the game. He had four votes by page three you had nothing really to say about that. What do you think about the two wagons side by side?

I will say I am not happy with benmage's pile on, it was really weak... *Thinking*

[Benmage]

Yeah, I mean, you followed the nacho wagon without even really understanding it and now you're far to eager to jump on ConfidAnon before he has even had a chance to explain himself. If you have nothing original to add to it, I don't see any real reason for you to be in a clamor to join the wagon, especially when your previous post said that you had JUST read him in iso and didn't see any reason to be voting him.

And than i read all the voters isos, voting him for insight. Dont tell em i jumped or rushed this one harshly...i wasnt sinking my teeth into the game yet early on...made a misname and didnt see 1 vote. Geeeeze.

He explained himself. Me putting him at L-2 will make him come out and defend himself, if he fails to do so properly he hangs. Its fairly simple.

Its a decent, illogical offence no?

L-2 isnt exactly a death sentence...but it'll make Con forced to come in and clarify (not lurk it off) and if he/she doesnt, or messes up it'll be a fast D1.

ConfidAnon has already clarified that statement. I even quoted where he did it.

I read the clarification.

That

actually makes it worse for me. Me, not the other PoV's who are voting.

He said he reads scummy town, not scummy scum...What is your interpretation of scummy town?

[Vi]

Vi, wanna take a seat on the benmage wagon? Space is limited.

If I call within the next sixty minutes do I get another vote absolutely free?

Before I make a decision there I would like to ask if and how post 153 changes your mind about ConfidAnon.
It's not that you or anyone was wagoning him for pressure, because you already got the answer you were looking for!

----

[Nacho]

had four votes by page three you had nothing really to say about that. What do you think about the two wagons side by side?

I don't mind the Nacho wagon as much tbh. I like Admiral D3X, I can go with what Ectomancer is doing, the jury is out on PorkchopExpress, and Benmage is already in front of me.

Do you have any solid insight you would like to contribute to the conversation?

----

He said he reads scummy town, not scummy scum...What is your interpretation of scummy town?

Are you suggesting that scummy Townies are somehow rare?

[Benmage]

He said he reads scummy town, not scummy scum...What is your interpretation of scummy town?

Are you suggesting that scummy Townies are somehow rare?

Hell no. They're everywhere. But my interpretation of scummy townies are bad/novice-like/poor players....I think it a bit early in this game for Con to be suggesting that of Nacho.

Again, how do you define "scummy townies"?

[Ectomancer]

Let's wait before everyone else to join the party, shall we? Porkchop, Ben, Amished, ConfidAnon, pwnz, don... Explain a stance on the argument Ecto and I just had, and take a firm stance, and give (1) reason why. "I agree with so-and-so" is not a good answer. Also, please answer all questions asked of you. Thank you, and have a nice day.

Actually, I am going to revoke my previous statement on this one now that the focus has shifted from you two. I really can't understand why you, Ectomancer, would go so far as to state that you were going to ride Nachomamma8's bandwagon all the way until lynch and then flip your vote over to me on the next page because you didn't think that I offered you any valuable information on the subject. (pro-tip: I was sandbagging) *hic

It makes it even more hard for me to understand why you flipped your vote over to me when you gave Nachomamma8 such a clear-cut list of things that you needed to see accomplished before you made any further moves: *hic

My position is stated clearly and succintly Nacho. You have yet to state yours, and that is the entire problem. Yes, I do intend to bypass your attempt at pages of quote rebuttal pyramids to render the town glassy eyed over the topic. Yes I intend to ignore your questions. I have no intentions of playing that particular scum game. You have no right to them through your refusal to answer those put to you. You can either get to explaining your every move from post 1 forward, and you can make absolute certain we know what your position is at every point, or you can expect to see my vote on you till lynch.

Now, I realize that my vote on you is no longer going to be as strong of a vote since you already have placed one on me, but your massive flip-flop there just rubs me wrong, especially since it was made with absolutely no correspondence from Nachomamma8 in between. You could have just as easily called me out on my lack of insight and told me that it was unacceptable, but instead you moved your vote off of someone that you were absolutely sure was scum, so sure that you were going to ride it out until lynch. I don't buy it. *hic

unvote; vote Ectomancer

This was all already asked and answered. Update your attacks if you don't mind.

Why does ConfidAnon deserve the vote more than pwnz? Let me show you how you should have done it:

ConfidAnon, what exactly do you mean by "Nacho is obviously scummy?"

Substance pwnz, today.

unvote, vote pwnz

I thought you wanted to ride nacho's wagon to a lynch. Why the sudden change of heart?

Responses indicate a lack of interest and beating the same dead horse won't generate new useful content. Nor is anything further I do along those lines likely to alter his starting objectionable behavior. I also liked post 98 where he chose to take the opportunity to force others into the discussion rather than focus on a refusal to volley questions back and forth as VP Baltar did. All of that calls for searching for other likely suspects.

[Sotty7]

Do you have any solid insight you would like to contribute to the conversation?

I like VP and Amished so far, although more posting from the latter would be great. Porkchop could go in here too. Nacho has gone MIA since the pressure left him, I don't like that. As for the rest, I'm still in a sorting process.

Ecto, what do you think of the confid wagon now with how both Don and Benmage hopped on?

[Ectomancer]

Yeah, I mean, you followed the nacho wagon without even really understanding it and now you're far to eager to jump on ConfidAnon before he has even had a chance to explain himself. If you have nothing original to add to it, I don't see any real reason for you to be in a clamor to join the wagon, especially when your previous post said that you had JUST read him in iso and didn't see any reason to be voting him.

I like the barking up this tree.

I'll give you a regional radar of the game later when I have some time to devote to a right up. Haven't been feeling or sleeping well. I can give you a pre-liminary excerpt though. "Vi appears to be the same Vi, doing what he does. Seems to have slightly antagonistic undertones, but that is about normal friction."

[Vi]

Again, how do you define "scummy townies"?

People who act scummy, and yet happen to be Town (or are probably Town).
I have no idea why you think it was too early for that suggestion to be tossed around.

Unvote: VP Baltar
Vote: Sotty7

(L-6)

Obviously avoiding me where possible.

[Ectomancer]

Do you have any solid insight you would like to contribute to the conversation?

I like VP and Amished so far, although more posting from the latter would be great. Porkchop could go in here too. Nacho has gone MIA since the pressure left him, I don't like that. As for the rest, I'm still in a sorting process.

Ecto, what do you think of the confid wagon now with how both Don and Benmage hopped on?

I liked what VP had to say to Ben.
As for ConfidAnon, he looked to me like he is having the classic "scummy vs anti-town" issue with his statement. People don't know when to use them properly. For instance, 'X is scummy' should get a vote after it, while 'X is anti-town' shouldn't necessarily because they do mean different things.

[Vi]

Your read on don_johnson?

[Benmage]

Nacho has gone MIA since the pressure left him, I don't like that.

Noticed this too, i need to reread his iso, and that 1st wagon on him.

Again, how do you define "scummy townies"?

People who act scummy, and yet happen to be Town (or are probably Town).
I have no idea why you think it was too early for that suggestion to be tossed around.

You think theres already ample information to decide someones scummy actions aren't because they're scum, but that they are town and just did a scum-like-action-slip. That would mean the player would have to have already contributed significantly indicating clear town-like play, and then have a scum slip or two or bad move...i just dont think there's that much info yet in the game...so when a player this early is scummy, i dont see how one can call it or write them off as "scummy town"...but then again, we'll wait to here from Con.

I liked what VP had to say to Ben.

Explain.

[Sotty7]

Unvote: VP Baltar
Vote: Sotty7

(L-6)

Obviously avoiding me where possible.

I could feel this vote coming.

How am I avoiding you when I have answered every question you have thrown my way and asked you some of my own? If you want my read on you, all you had to do was ask. We seem to be standing on two different sides. You liked the nacho wagon, I didn't. I liked the confid wagon, you didn't. I don't really find anything overly scummy about your play, but I'm not thinking obv town either. Hence you are lost in the mix.

[Sotty7]

Benmage, when do you think you can call someone scummy town?

[Benmage]

Benmage, when do you think you can call someone scummy town?

Dudet i dont know exactly, absolutes suck in this game. But generally i'd say when you have a good town read on someone throughout a game and they slip up. Do a novice/poor/scummy move.

I like that analysis by ecto about x scummy and x antitown..tho i'm sure i've interchanged the two.

[Benmage]

Hmm i'll add to that definition...When people play poor. And do basic scummy moves (you see this alot in bad and new players) that can be called "scummy town".

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

He has hopped on every bandwagon that looks good to him, he has been posting zero content, and I hate the majority of his posts.

First, his piggybacking off Porkchop's vote with absolutely no explanation whatsoever except for "I like this post."

He then refuses to answer two questions asked of him because they're "stupid questions".

Then, there's this.

You're reaching farrrrr here. Scum are nitpicky as hell...they make sure to be errorless...so i was semi nonchalant in my posting thus far. It cause i'm town. I dont need to tread on thin ice because I dont need to act town, i just can do whatever the hell i want...(basically).

Instead of defending himself, he basically says "if I was scum, I'd be playing a lot better right now." I don't like this at all.

Other than that, he hasn't done any scumhunting whatsoever, and it seems he's just trying to coast by.

[ConfidAnon]

@ConfidAnon

What are your points on don johnson? That he questioned the reasoning behind your RVS vote?

Can you give me a quick bullet list of the "scummy things" you have seen from nacho?

Also, why do you say this:

As for the requested stance on the Nacho/Ecto argument, I admit I've skimmed through the agument, I'll give it a thorough reread later when I've got a bit more time and then give my stance.

Which I interpret to mean you haven't really been keeping up with their spat, while you also are speaking definitively about scummy actions from nacho? If you have only skimmed their back and forth, how can you be sure about your reads on those actions being scummy?

don_johnson: I placed my random vote on him, did not give reasoning. He questions me on my motivations behind the vote, and notably does not question the other votes with no reasoning until later on. I noted his OMGUS and asked why he was being so jumpy with one random vote on him. He later voted me saying I was scummy because I did not have reasoning behind my random vote. Smells like a scum overreaction to me.

I play a lot on gut, and right now the only thing scummy I've seen from Nacho is his jumpiness in the early thread. When the argument with Ecto started, I started skimming because I got lazy, so therefore I can not evaluate how Nacho looks coming out of that discussion.

I know I said I'd catch up, but I'm unexpectedly out of the house this evening. I can make this post, and then I gotta go, I'll do it either when I get back or tomorrow, sorry for the delay.

Well if you think people doing scummy things doesn't make them scum, why are you voting for anybody ever? What you did was scummy enough to earn a vote.

Let's see, you have your vote on DJ for being jumpy, but since DJ is more jumpy than nacho, DJ gets scum read and Nacho gets town read? Something like that sum up your position? Yeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaahhhh, not buying it.

Boils down to gut (again, haven't read the Nacho/Ecto argument yet.) I think dj is more likely to be scum than nacho.

why? i never said they did.

Then why did you ask for an explanation for my random vote? You asked me to explain my vote when it was on you when it was clearly random, and then voted me for not justifying my vote. You have clearly implied that random votes require justification, quit dodging the question.

Um, no? If you have a legitimate reason for not liking the wagon, then express it. From where I'm sitting it doesn't look too bad and the cognitive dissonance coming from him is pretty outstanding.

She did give a reason . . . the people she thinks are scum jumped on my wagon.

Its a decent, illogical offence no?

Huh?

[Vi]

@Benmage: You're making this into much more of a Burden of Proof argument than it needs to be. You don't need a long history of posts to be able to see the intent behind what people say and do.

I seriously don't think this is the first time you've ever run across the distinction between "scummy" and "anti-Town".

How am I avoiding you when I have answered every question you have thrown my way and asked you some of my own?

I see your question about the Nacho wagon as a deflection. I answered and asked if you had anything else to add. You provided reads that were pretty much all opposite mine, and ended the conversation with a sentence saying were still "sorting" my alignment. Etc.

I'm getting terrible vibes from Nacho's vote on Benmage... but at the same time I don't see anything worth arguing.

[don_johnson]

don_johnson: I placed my random vote on him, did not give reasoning. He questions me on my motivations behind the vote, and notably does not question the other votes with no reasoning until later on.

you voted me. i asked why. the other two unexplained random votes came after yours. no reason for me to notice them.

I noted his OMGUS and asked why he was being so jumpy with one random vote on him.

i asked "why?". how is that jumpy? i asked "why?". how is that "omgus"?

He later voted me saying I was scummy because I did not have reasoning behind my random vote.

wrong. i voted you because you avoided the question i asked you.

why? i never said they did.

Then why did you ask for an explanation for my random vote? You asked me to explain my vote when it was on you when it was clearly random, and then voted me for not justifying my vote. You have clearly implied that random votes require justification, quit dodging the question.

no dodging here. either i have mispoken or you have misunderstood.

first, your vote was not "clearly random". it was a vote alone in space. naked and unabashed. it was hanging in the void. by your own explanation the vote was not truly random either(you had a reason that generated your vote that was not a die roll, number generator, names out of a hat, etc.). you had a reason for it. why were you so against explaining that reason right off? to clarify:

random votes do not need to be explained. however, one should

be able

to explain them. one should also be willing, as there is no inherent danger or detrimental effect in offering their explanation. in fact, random votes should be

the easiest votes

for a townie to explain in the game of mafia. the fact that the simple question, "why?", got your panties in such a bunch as to have you morph your rvs vote into a serious vote

and

avoid answering the simplest of all questions is why i am suspicious of you.

does that clear it up?

[VP Baltar]

Before I make a decision there I would like to ask if and how post 153 changes your mind about ConfidAnon.
It's not that you or anyone was wagoning him for pressure, because you already got the answer you were looking for!

Actually, I made a very nice post addressing the holes in his response, so I don't think you should pretend like I was hanging on to a reasonless vote.

That being said, I'm happy to put my vote on Benmage for his very obvious wagoning because it's hip. I could very well be wrong about Confid (it happens), and there is plenty of attention there for now. I may as well see where this benmage suspicion leads.

And than i read all the voters isos, voting him for insight.

That doesn't make you look better in my eyes. You are essentially saying "I didn't see the problem until other people pointed it out for me and I think it's GRRRRRRRRRRRREAAT!" It's a scum mentality of scum hunting.

She did give a reason . . . the people she thinks are scum jumped on my wagon.

If I had seen her actually make a case for any of those people, this might hold some credence. Hell, I assumed Vi's vote on me was just part of a running gag we have about me "always" being scum.