Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[zoraster]

Vote Count, Day 2

hiphop ( 0 )
shotty to the body ( 0 )
charter ( 0 )
elvis_knits ( 3 ) - Vi - Idiotking - roflcopter
Energetic Penguin ( 0 )
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 0 )
Infinis ( 0 )
Xylthixlm ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 0 )
Pads ( 2 ) - SpyreX - hitogoroshi
popsofctown ( 0 )
Zakeri ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - elvis_knits
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 0 )
Vi ( 1 ) - charter
Unvote ( 13 ) - hiphop - shotty to the body - Energetic Penguin - Infinis - Xylthixlm - Maemuki - Pads - popsofctown - Zakeri - RayFrost - RedCoyote - sigma - Sotty7
Total Votes ( 20 )

With 20 alive, 11 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 12th, 10am EST

EtherealCookie feels he must replace out. Looking for a replacement.

[zoraster]

Xylthixlm replaces EtherealCookie

Hip hip horay!

[Xylthixlm]

Hi. What do I need to know?

[Xylthixlm]

Magic 8-ball says elvis is scum.

vote elvis_knits

[Xylthixlm]

Because your lack of commitment to a damn game of Mafia is unbelievable.

Defending yourself is part of the game. Improving your play is part of the game. Defending yourself is part of the game. Making the effort to submit decent posts is part of the game. If you deliberately use a scummy posting style, you will be suspected in every game until you prove yourself to be a consistently useful scum hunter.

You refuse to improve your play. You refuse to improve your posting style. So, yes, people suspect you—and they should. An always-scummy posting style does not mean you don't have to defend yourself. But you've actually done scummy things this game. And even in the games where you are not scum, you should be policy-lynched for this sort of thing, because you do not find and lynch scum frequently enough to validate your technique ... if you can even call it a technique.

Doing all that, getting duly wagoned, and then demanding a replacement and whining about it like a four-year-old with his eyeball dangling by a tendon out of the socket is unbelievable.

I want to frame this post.

[Xylthixlm]

Pads please explain why roflcopter is scum for someone who hasn't read the whole game.

[Xylthixlm]

Idiotking 908: This is not a good reason to suspect elvis_knits.
charter 913: Confidence?

[CSL]

Bah. Go Town, kill scum.

[Idiotking]

This is not a good reason to suspect elvis_knits.

Care to tell me why not?

[hiphop]

I'm on Pads for the lynch because I'm rooting for the vig to shoot ek. If that doesn't happen I'll swap.

Tell me which is better:

1. We kill the most likely scum by lynch, and the day- killer kills his second person as scum or,

2. we let the day-killer kills the scummiest player, and the town argues over who will be lynched.

I am not sure which one is better. 2 will create more discussion, but with 20 alive that is still a lot of pages to read. Of course 2 is only better assuming that the day-killer has more than one shot.

I don't like idk's vote day one, even though I pushed for it. It kind of reminds me of one of my first games, where I voted Maemuki, who I said was most likely townie in the same post.

Idk- it is better that we killed him then. If a replacement comes, we would always have doubts about whether he was scum or not, because of csl. I don't think he would have died any other way besides the rope.

Nobody made any good points toward imag day one, probably because he never did look like town. I hate drawing connections between two people, unless they both connect to each other, however agreeing with one person that a 2nd person is town, while calling that 2nd person scum, points a giant finger at that first person.

fos elvis

This person should be killed today, though like I said, because there is no connection going from elvis to imag, creates doubt in my mind. Still is the best connection of anyone though.

I am going to vote, who I think is the second buddy, hoping the day vig is unlimited.

vote scotty

imag doesn't have her name mentioned in iso 2, but he comes back later and starts calling her town, and saying that she is making really good points in iso 4,5, and 6. The only problem with this case is sotty doesn't mention imag. I'll let sotty tell us why.

rofl- I am not seeing how idk is scum, because of imag. Perhaps you can explain it to me. I believed he attacked idk way too much for him to be scum with imag. Mae on the other hand seems a very likely candiate.

imaginality the Mafia Roleblocker was killed

Did anyone else notice this? There is no indication that there is two mafias. It makes me think there is only one. Possibly a sk and vig (yes, it says in the rules there can be two vigs) or two sks.

[SpyreX]

Xyl is it TOO early to be your bff?

Tell me which is better:

1. We kill the most likely scum by lynch, and the day- killer kills his second person as scum or,

2. we let the day-killer kills the scummiest player, and the town argues over who will be lynched.

Not sure what you're aimin for here in general but I'll bite.

Regardless of what is picked the end results are important - like the shot yesterday on a growing wagon.

Personally, I'd do the simple (much like yesterday) - once someone has that for mad reals push take the shot. See the flip. Assess. Wagon to lynch. Pretty standard.

Because, of course, the part you're not REALLY addressing is how much information is actually gained from the flip of the first shot. Thats the good stuff.

[RayFrost]

woohooo for posts I cba to read (referencing the end of D1 stuff)~

Anybody has any questions for me, I would like you to ask them now.

As it is, I need to do an iso or two for things.

[Xylthixlm]

This is not a good reason to suspect elvis_knits.

Care to tell me why not?

Voting is not scummy. Bandwagoning is not scummy. Changing your mind is not scummy.

[Pads]

Pads please explain why roflcopter is scum for someone who hasn't read the whole game.

Actually, I like Roflcopter much better after his recent posts. Opinions and insight galore! Where was all that yesterday? Also, given that Imaginality was testing the waters for a Roflcopter wagon in Post 691 and I don't see myself voting for him today.

But, what you were probably asking is why did I think he was likely scum on Day 1. What I didn't like on Day 1 was the sitting back, letting other people dig and then responding to what they see. It was very back seat driverish. I didn't care for how he called for the death of crypto over and over again, and then voted him, and then.... went along with crypto's vote and case on E_K? I've been calling for Vi's lynching for almost all of the game. If I suddenly said "Okay, VI, I'll go along with your case" anyone who questioned me would be right to do so.

He also was early to call Mae town, who was one of the people I pegged for scum, and I saw little room for reading her as town.

I also didn't like his un-researched attack on me, sufficiently defeated in Post 888. It looked like he pulled it out of thin air.

All this combined is what earned my suspicion on Day 1.

Actually, Charter, roflcopter, Vi, sigma, Pads, and Sotty7 were all on both the Confid and CSL wagons. I get the feeling that at least half of these folks are scum, if not more.

I don't mind being suspected, and my actions reviewed, but when I read a line like "I get the feeling that at least half of these folks are scum, if not more" then I rest assured that whatever comes after it is going to be scum talking.

Really? A feeling that atleast half the people in subset A are scum? I cannot imagine such an intuition striking me. It reminds me of that line "I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi" - is the sensing of such a complex idea even possible? I don't think it is. Thus, I think this is just an excuse to start a case based on nothing. If you have a reason why you think atleast half of these are scum, please share it. But a feeling? C'mon now. This is scum throwing matches at a pile of wood, hoping one starts a fire.

Vote: Pads

Vig, shoot e_k plox

I asked you on Day 1 if you found my undecideness towards your alignment to be scummy. You never answered that I saw, but may I take your vote as a yes?

On the subject of the vig, I whole heartedly agree. We risk lynching too quickly and losing discussion time, or getting distracted and letting a scum slip away. A shot now will give us a fully day of discussion and voting to review.

I really don't like Pad's 888. I think part of it is that it read so similar to 619 - with the same stand-offish self defense and pretty damn similar lists. With the sheer insane pace of this game I'm inclined to think of certainty and consistency as somewhat scummy. Of course, most of what I don't like about that post is more subconscious than that, but apparently we're voting with our guts now, so vote: pads.

I suspect certain people of being scum, and then less than 48 hours later, I still suspect many of them. Thus, I am scum. I'm going to assume that no one mistakes this for real scum hunting. That I consistently pointed at Hito as scum yesterday surely has nothing to do with it. I also doubt this vote would be here unless SpyreX had dropped a far more reasoned vote (atleast, I think it's more reasoned) first, but that's neither here nor there.

I am going to vote, who I think is the second buddy, hoping the day vig is unlimited.
vote scotty imag doesn't have her name mentioned in iso 2, but he comes back later and starts calling her town, and saying that she is making really good points in iso 4,5, and 6. The only problem with this case is sotty doesn't mention imag. I'll let sotty tell us why.

I fail to see why Sotty's name not appearing in Imaginality's read would make Sotty a likely candidate for a buddy. Someone like Vi, who is very prominent, is an absence that is rather curious, but Sotty hasn't talked much at all. Also, that Imaginality was willing to openly support Sotty's points without provocation indicates a more likely chance of Sotty being town.

@Vi: We were discussing the value of a CSL lynch, information wise, yesterday. You assured me that it would be an informative lynch. I think if we have a single mafia, Idiotking is quite likely to be in it, as he objected far too much to a reasonable wagon (a double mafia scenario would leave little sense to stay off the wagon of such a scummy person, unless he was actually a town with a town read on CSL, which is a whole other questionable point). I'd like to hear what conclusions you'd be willing to draw from CSL's wagon and alignment flip.

I'm hoping we don't have to actually lynch E_K, but if we do, it shouldn't be a problem, as the scum are flocking to bus her, even if only by vocal support.

And for the record, I still disapprove of the vig shooting at night for the time being, if that's what is going on.

vote: Elvis_Knits

.

[Vi]

Hey Pads, two issues with your last post.

1) Where and when did you stop hating me and start suspecting elvis_knits? It's like you're saying "Okay, VI, I'll go along with your case". Especially considering the snipe you take at me when discussing Sotty7.

2) In which alternative universe did we discuss the merits of a CSL lynch? We discussed the implications of an E-Penguin lynch, which is unfortunately not equivalent. There's not much you can get out of policy lynches that are

that

warranted aside from who was interested in wagoning. The best thing about the CSL lynch was that it brought on the Night phase.

I'm reasonably comfortable with an Idiotking-Town read and think that he's another punching bag to make an easy mislynch.
If we're going to have five kills per Day I think we need to be done with the n00bchasing now.

[Sotty7]

Apologies I have limited access on the weekends.

@Maemuki: Please do. I'd love to see an opinion you didn't steal from someone else.

Pretty much this. Mae, top scum picks and reasons please.

I am going to vote, who I think is the second buddy, hoping the day vig is unlimited.

vote scotty

imag doesn't have her name mentioned in iso 2, but he comes back later and starts calling her town, and saying that she is making really good points in iso 4,5, and 6. The only problem with this case is sotty doesn't mention imag. I'll let sotty tell us why.

There is probably a few people I didn't mention yesterday. Why? Because I was pushing others, imaginality didn't post that much so when I came though points against him were already brought up or I just didn't have anything to say. You only mentioned imaginality twice yesterday, one of those was a pretty pointless question, so yeah. Why didn't you talk about him more?

Vote: Elvis

I just felt like she wasn't fully here yesterday and I do agree with Vi that she was on the “easy targets” I am having a little issue here in that I am not fully sold on Vitown and also Elvis is voting for Sigma who is still someone very high on my list for scum. So yeah I am feeling torn.

Right now I am feeling Elvis, spy and sigma for scum, Vi is a potential. I'm not seeing the pads hate, I found him to be pretty insightful yesterday and the tone of his posts feels like how I would reason things. IK I haven't decided either way at this point, my experience with him is that he makes for an easy lynch so I am not going to be quick to join that wagon. Still I will have to take time to read though some iso's and see what I can dig up.

[elvis_knits]

@Vi - your only point against me seems to be that I vote crypto.

Not true, but it's the only one you can try to defend.

Can we not do this whole "I know you are, but what am I?" dance? Your reasons are WIFOM BS, so don't go around saying "oh she can't defend against them!" There's literally nothing to defend against, but if you want me to break it down for you, I will...

Lynch preference is currently somewhere around this order:
*elvis_knits (weak presence throughout, chasing easy targets, covering her poorly-advised jump on the crypto wagon with

"I didn't read the N0 flavor"

, not getting an updated avatar of the puppy)

"weak presence throughout" -- No, I've been posting every day, multiple times

"chasing easy targets" -- No. My votes, in order: Vi, confidanon, idiotking, crypto, idiotking, sigma.

"covering her poorly-advised jump on the crypto wagon with

"I didn't read the N0 flavor"

" -- I already defended against this. I didn't think crypto had any reason to believe 2 scum teams for sure. It's something only scum would know for sure. When I realized he had legitimate reason for thinking so, I unvoted. What is scummy about that?

"non-updated avatar of puppy" I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY I WILL NOT CHANGE MY AVATAR TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS!

If there are other crappy reasons I missed, please let me know so I can blow those apart too.

Also, wtf is up with people voting me and then criticising other people for voting me? Xyl votes me and then tells idiotking his reason for voting me sucks. Vi is voting me and questions why pads is voting me. Usually when I am on a bandwagon I believe in, I don't question other people who join me helping me lynch said person.

I would rather get back to lynching Sigma, or possibly red coyote, who despite not being on all the wagons, is going into his hyper-analytical scum mode. I originally wanted to chase the wagons, but I think we should take a closer look at RedCoyote too.

[Xylthixlm]

hyper-analytical scum mode

Pot, kettle.

[elvis_knits]

What are you talking about Xyl? Maybe you should read the game.

[Xylthixlm]

What are you talking about Xyl? Maybe you should read the game.

Try reading your own posts.

[elvis_knits]

What is the point of reading my own posts, Xyl?

Read the game, and then get back to me.

[Xylthixlm]

What is the point of reading my own posts, Xyl?

^ scum

Thanks for confirming my first guess.

[Idiotking]

Voting is not scummy. Bandwagoning is not scummy. Changing your mind is not scummy.

Voting is not scummy, unless it is only on popular targets, and only after other people have made their cases. Bandwagoning is not scummy, unless it is only on popular targets. Changing your mind is not scummy, unless it's because you didn't think anything through in the first place and just hopped on a bandwagon for no goddamn good reason.

[Xylthixlm]

Bandwagoning is not scummy, unless it is only on popular targets.

Do you even know what bandwagoning means?

[charter]

charter 913: Confidence?

~75%

Why we should lynch/dayvig Vi:

Calls Maemuki town after rofl does. She then goes on about how scum hate people people calling people town. Important baseline established for the end of day one.

At the beginning of the day, Vi is all over these burgeoning bandwagons: sigma, SpyreX, Confid, Energetic Penguin

Then, in ISO 65, he defends not voting for CSL with "let the other scumteam/vig" take care of them. Scummy logic. Next post, he adds another reason for not voting CSL, "Plus, again, easy wagon." BWAH?!?! He was on four easy wagons earlier in the day, but then refuses to go on CSL.

Vi then later hammers CSL, making one mention of CSL in between.

Scumfession (ISO 85) "Even if CSL flips Town, there is no loss. See crypto 833." Justifying CSL flipping town after he's already been lynched, trying to distance from the wagon.

Says Hoopla is scum (for a really bad reason too, it was Hoopla questioning why Vi didn't think Crypto would be a good policy lynch) and then I say Hoopla is obvtown. Vi questions me, then drops it, then once Hoopla lays the smackdown of towniness, Vi backs off with "@Hoopla defenders: If it's that obvious to everyone else and I just don't "get it", then whatever. " Her whole attitude on Hoopla is quite the contradiction to her attitude towards calling people town day one.

Plus, if I was scum and I was Vi, I'd kill Hoopla. Not saying other scum wouldn't as well, but yeah.[/wifom]

Another plus, Vi isn't playing like she does as town.[/worthlesspoint]

Now to read up day two after football and what the Elvis deal is about since I don't remember what it was.