Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[Ectomancer]

ebwop: i am not sure what is more annoying: giant fucking quote walls or players who repeatedly link to other posts.

I hate the links. Put the relevant material in the post and if I have to scroll past it, so be it. The only time links are ok is when they reference material outside the game.

[Ectomancer]

@Ecto: Yes, he's both scummy and looking for scum. His heightened sense of self preservation is a large part of the former (and also what makes me place him in 3rd party rather than mafia group scum).

Ok, thanks for the 2nd sentence. I wasn't sure if I was specific in what I wanted from you. I can buy "heightened sense of self preservation" as a valid reference for the idea.

In this case, my suggestion is we make use of the scumhunting portion and put a bookmark on the scummy portion. Should he turn up as 3rd party, it will help us in the long run, but in the short run we would hurt the scum vs everyone else balance.

[ConfidAnon]

don: Your "why?" post questioned my unexplained RVS vote but ignored the unexplained RVS votes to come before it. THis translates to you being jumpy when voted.

[Amished]

...

Next one: No you cant excuse scummy behavior,

but you cant/shouldnt condemn people on minor things alone;

usually...Things that are all wifom, would scum do this... would town do this etc etc crap like that. I've been in games where buddying, bussing, answering/defending questions geared toward another..things town, scum, just players do..and that was considered a case. Its sort've what I was referencing with that statement.
...

Bolded mine. One line by CA was enough for you to vote for him.

{wtf}If you had been following along, you would know that DJ's 126 is what DJ thought of CA (explaining his vote)

{playing flawlessly}Obviously you're aware of this sort of meta in yourself, so you can subvert it at any time. More WIFOM.

@Sotty: Read the last part of my 206 again. That's the wishy-washy type of comments that I saw in d3x. I think you're .. what was it? "really reaching here" to discredit what I'm seeing. I'd like to know why, ESPECIALLY after you clearly read 206 and my point about d3x's quote.

@Ecto: If he's 3rd party, his scumhunting isn't any better than the rest of ours. Do you think he'll have special knowledge?

[Benmage]

...

Next one: No you cant excuse scummy behavior,

but you cant/shouldnt condemn people on minor things alone;

usually...Things that are all wifom, would scum do this... would town do this etc etc crap like that. I've been in games where buddying, bussing, answering/defending questions geared toward another..things town, scum, just players do..and that was considered a case. Its sort've what I was referencing with that statement.
...

Bolded mine. One line by CA was enough for you to vote for him.

Ahh ty. Maybe it was poor wording on my part that led to this confusion. But the minor things I was referring to was largely wifom arguments. As i tried to go on and explain later in the paragraph. This question was also a response to Nacho who asked if we should ignore scummy things. (humorous question, i know)

The one line of Con's was vote worthy...again. He isnt hung, and my vote was to see his response/attain more information...i really dont see the issue or why so many have sprung on me.

{wtf}If you had been following along, you would know that DJ's 126 is what DJ thought of CA (explaining his vote)

His answer or statement in the representation of a list of possible answers, was really peculiar and pointless in my opinion..hence the 'wtf'...

{playing flawlessly}Obviously you're aware of this sort of meta in yourself, so you can subvert it at any time. More WIFOM.

Yes, but then i ask you something, for which i asked if you agreed or not. I can requote the question if you like.

[PorkchopExpress]

ebwop: i am not sure what is more annoying: giant fucking quote walls or players who repeatedly link to other posts.

I hate the links. Put the relevant material in the post and if I have to scroll past it, so be it. The only time links are ok is when they reference material outside the game.

Jesus, can you guys be more passive aggressive about it? No? I didn't think so.

[Vi]

Amished's 3rd party speculation is approaching ungodly levels of bad, especially since third party hunting is the

Mafia's

job and it's not like we're not supposed to kill all nonTown ASAP. Further, it's not like d3x has had any chance to respond to the snowballing accusations. And trying to rolefish based on the

possibility

of a third party? Seriously?
The only thing that stands to change my mind - and it probably shouldn't - is Amished's advertisement to "try something". I can see it coming, but I don't know if it's something scum is capable of doing.

d_j needs to come out of his own little world and say something about just about anyone except ConfidAnon.
Similarly, ConfidAnon needs to come off d_j and join the rest of the people bickering. The only people you've voted for are each other, essentially for a single post on Page 2.

Ectomancer can stay in his own little world and continue to be scum.

I'm not sure what to think of P-Express at the moment considering he's going right down the list of people I expect are Town while merely sniping at the people who are more likely scum atm.

Benmage, why the Veep-Beep vote? I can respect it on an intuitive level, and there are a number of nice reasons to vote him just based on this thread, but I would like for you to explain yourself.

[Ectomancer]

@Ecto: If he's 3rd party, his scumhunting isn't any better than the rest of ours. Do you think he'll have special knowledge?

Of course not, but if he's 3rd party you would know two things. First, his scumhunting is sincere and second, he counts against a scum win. You don't take them out on day 1 unless you believe he belongs to a multiple scum 3rd party, and your idea that he is especially self-preserving would argue against itself.

[VP Baltar]

dur...welcome to mafia...iso reads aren't nearly as good as rereading whole thread..reading the others isos put things in perspective..how can i interpret his answers without the questions...dunt dunt daaaaah

But the problem is that the line you attack him over, the line that everyone else attacked him over, doesn't need any context to appear scummy. If you were actually scumhunting on your own, it might have stood out to you. As it is, others had to point it out before you found it scummy.

So, yeah, vote stays.

Uhhh False....Here's my post reading Con's iso before reading the iso's of those voting him:

I read Con in iso...nothing really stuck out for me as too terrible...why's he have so many votes?

One thing that struck me as peculiar was him saying nacho is more scummy town..than scummy scum

...whats the difference there...??

yer...and then your next post just quotes people talking about that post and features you saying:

Oooo tis a good point.

As if you hadn't realized it before.

If you saw it before, as you are claiming, what happened between that post and your voting post to make you think the wagon was now voteworthy? As far as I can tell, it was simply the fact that others were voting there.

[VP Baltar]

After playing in a couple of games together, I am just learning that VP is a woman. This does not bode well for my attention to detail.

I'm quite surprised at how confused the site has generally been me switching my gender icon. Interesting sociological experiment. Anyhow, I may have a penis and just switched it for another game I am currently in.



In other news, I'm on the side of generally not buying Amished's third party reasoning. Seems a weird thing to bring up from a town perspective and his reasoning for arriving at that conclusion sounds a little forced.

Confid and don need to start discussing players that aren't confid and don, imo.

Oh well:

d_j needs to come out of his own little world and say something about just about anyone except ConfidAnon.
Similarly, ConfidAnon needs to come off d_j and join the rest of the people bickering. The only people you've voted for are each other, essentially for a single post on Page 2.

F you too lady. -__-



Aaaand, caught up for now. Peace out all.

[don_johnson]

don: Your "why?" post questioned my unexplained RVS vote but ignored the unexplained RVS votes to come before it. THis translates to you being jumpy when voted.

or it translates as

me

responding to

you

.
you are a stubborn little cuss.

unvote

apparently we are to talk about others now.

but first,

daykill: vi

[Benmage]

Benmage, why the Veep-Beep vote? I can respect it on an intuitive level, and there are a number of nice reasons to vote him just based on this thread, but I would like for you to explain yourself.

I'd love to, but have been busy and always come back to this thread behind, spend all my time catching up, answering people and get burnt out.

dur...welcome to mafia...iso reads aren't nearly as good as rereading whole thread..reading the others isos put things in perspective..how can i interpret his answers without the questions...dunt dunt daaaaah

But the problem is that the line you attack him over, the line that everyone else attacked him over, doesn't need any context to appear scummy. If you were actually scumhunting on your own, it might have stood out to you. As it is, others had to point it out before you found it scummy.

So, yeah, vote stays.

Uhhh False....Here's my post reading Con's iso before reading the iso's of those voting him:

I read Con in iso...nothing really stuck out for me as too terrible...why's he have so many votes?

One thing that struck me as peculiar was him saying nacho is more scummy town..than scummy scum

...whats the difference there...??

yer...and then your next post just quotes people talking about that post and features you saying:

Oooo tis a good point.

As if you hadn't realized it before.

If you saw it before, as you are claiming, what happened between that post and your voting post to make you think the wagon was now voteworthy? As far as I can tell, it was simply the fact that others were voting there.

Why didnt you ask this 4 pages ago..now i have to look back recall what i said, what i quoted what my thought at the time was *sigh*:

Right now, Nacho is obviously scummy . . . but not enough so that it warrants a vote from me yet.

Pretty much sums it up. Why would you keep your random vote (that you've now talked about random votes have no meaning); instead of voting for somebody obviously scummy?

It's a sure sign of scum not wanting to vote for somebody

(buddy, town, either way works; initially leaning towards town).

Oooo tis a good point.

Reading amish’s view on it, another perspective even on the same issue I liked the part now underlined.

[Benmage]

After playing in a couple of games together, I am just learning that VP is a woman. This does not bode well for my attention to detail.

I'm quite surprised at how confused the site has generally been me switching my gender icon. Interesting sociological experiment. Anyhow, I may have a penis and just switched it for another game I am currently in.

Word. First game i thought she was a he. The name seems masculine to me..than i saw the little pink symbol, and was like w.t.f.

[Benmage]

apparently we are to talk about others now.

but first,

daykill: vi

and nothing to say....

[hohum]

A shot rings out unexpectedly and startles the coroner awake. He jumps to his feet and scrambles for his shotgun to see what the commotion is about. He rushes outside to see the smoke clear and sees don_johnson standing behind a six-shot ruger with his finger on the trigger.

"I see," remarked the coroner as he kneels down to examine Vi's body. The coroner places his ear next to vi's lips and feels a faint breath. "This man is still alive!" exclaims the coroner. Further examination reveals a wound to the right shoulder blade.

"Truly a sloppy shot" remarks the coroner "but effective" he adds.

Vi,

Wounded

, Will die in 48 hours.

[VP Baltar]

Last words, Vi? Any info to claim?

don, reasoning please.

[Vi]

Ah well, I'm burning out on Mafia anyway.

I was (somewhat) obvious Town. At the rate you're going, Mafia's going to win this easily. d_j had no reason to shoot me aside from doing what I could to mix things up, and I'm half-tempted to return the favor since he's not going to be of any use to the Town at best.

VP Baltar's last two votes have been for astonishingly weak reasons, especially considering he was the third on both the ConfidAnon and Benmage wagons. Still leaning toward scum.

I don't have a scumread on pwnz.

I don't have a scumread on d3x.

No read on Nacho.

Townish read on Sotty7.

Townish read on Benmage.

No read on PorkchopExpress and a bad intuitive feeling.

One of Amished and Ectomancer is virtually guaranteed to be scum for the third party speculation. Since VP Baltar just called out Amished and since Ectomancer has done even less for scumhunting, please do me a flavor and kill Ectomancer.

If scum have guns in this game - and because of the wounded status that bad shots give, they probably do - there is no reason whatsoever to let d_j live.

I'm not sure if ConfidAnon is Town or not.

So long and thanks for all the spaghetti,

[don_johnson]

sorry vi. really had no idea that would work. anyhoo, players please realize that vi is dead in 48 hours. their alignment won't be confirmed until then so i suggest holding off on lynching at least until then.

why vi?

vi is one of those players that always reads town imo. only way to know for sure is investigate,vig, etc. but regardless, i really didn't think that was going to work. in regards to not letting me live, daykilling on day one in broad daylight is obviously not scum play. so whatever.

[Vi]

vi is one of those players that always reads town imo. only way to know for sure is investigate,vig, etc.

lol, I thought I was acting really scummy in this game - good for my meta!
Thanks for the policy vig

just

as you happen to come under pressure though.

their alignment won't be confirmed until then so i suggest holding off on lynching at least until then.

This is how scum will win if they have guns.

Use my vote and lynch Ectomancer please.

i really didn't think that was going to work. in regards to not letting me live, daykilling on day one in broad daylight is obviously not scum play. so whatever.

If they let you get away with it,

yes it is

.

Also noted is VP Baltar avoiding this topic.

[VP Baltar]

You damn dirty ape.


Unfortunately, I get the feeling that dj might be town in spite of everything.

[Ectomancer]

One of Amished and Ectomancer is virtually guaranteed to be scum for the third party speculation. Since VP Baltar just called out Amished and since Ectomancer has done even less for scumhunting, please do me a flavor and kill Ectomancer.

If scum have guns in this game - and because of the wounded status that bad shots give, they probably do - there is no reason whatsoever to let d_j live.

How could you have a gun and

not

wonder about a 3rd party? Why do you think I was trying to carefully determine Amished's causation? I wanted to know if his speculation was rooted from the same source as my own. (having a gun separate from the rest of my pm). This is the Wild West and themed and there are a number of factions that could be a part of the game and all with their own agendas. For a good example, watch Fist Full of Dollars.

A Man with No Name (Clint Eastwood), arrives at a little Mexican border town named San Miguel. He is quickly introduced to the feud between two families vying to gain control the town: the Rojo brothers, consisting of Don Miguel (the eldest and nominally in charge), Esteban (Sieghardt Rupp) (the most headstrong) and Ramón (the most capable and intelligent, played by Gian Maria Volontè, who would reappear in For a Few Dollars More as the psychopathic El Indio), and the family of so-called "town sheriff" John Baxter (Wolfgang Lukschy).

The Stranger quickly spies an opportunity to make a "fistful of dollars" and decides to play both families against each other.

Why do you think I

wouldn't

vote Amished for clearly being scum looking for a 3rd party unless I thought there was a secondary non-scum motivation for speculating? (P.S. - his answer didn't dispell that notion, but my own doubt has held me)

[Vi]

Ectomancer: Everyone has a gun. I think that has been made rather apparent by now.
Even so, are you claiming game-related knowledge about "another faction"? The idea is that we kill all nonTown. This is standard in every Mafia game.
Last, Amished's speculation is based on things that d3x hasn't had a chance to respond to for ~7 pages, and the accusations have only snowballed over time. (Which reminds me, his V/LA should be up today.) Even if the third party has "inside information", that player has no ulterior motive in revealing it when we're supposed to kill him anyway. Scum is scum.

VP Baltar's response doesn't do anything for me but solidify my previous read. Please kill him and add another scum game to his collection.

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar's response doesn't do anything for me but solidify my previous read. Please kill him and add another scum game to his collection.

I know it's sour grapes to get knocked out of a game early, but dj's right about it being unlikely for scum to daykill like that. Not saying he gets a free pass or anything, but doesn't seem like a scum move to me.

[Vi]

VP Baltar's response doesn't do anything for me but solidify my previous read. Please kill him and add another scum game to his collection.

I know it's sour grapes to get knocked out of a game early, but dj's right about it being unlikely for scum to daykill like that. Not saying he gets a free pass or anything, but doesn't seem like a scum move to me.

I care less about getting taken out of the game earlier - burnout, remember - and more about

getting fired on for terrible reasons with no suggestion anywhere that he wanted to do it

.

I don't follow why you're saying scum wouldn't do that.

[Ectomancer]

Ectomancer: Everyone has a gun. I think that has been made rather apparent by now.

Apparent by now being the operable phrase. Prior to don shooting you, it was apparent only that I had one.

Even so, are you claiming game-related knowledge about "another faction"? The idea is that we kill all nonTown. This is standard in every Mafia game.

I'm claiming game-related speculation on other factions in the game based upon flavor and the fact that I had a gun, but not other information in my PM normally related to having a gun. There was quite a number of other speculations that went through my head, including that everyone might have a gun. but let's address a pertinent issue here.
You sir, are stretching a few truths in this matter, whatever your alignment. Firstly, there has been no "snowballing" accusations against d3x in his absence. What there has been is a discussion over what we should do even if Amished's speculations were correct. Secondly, there has been a discussion over what the source of Amished's speculations were. Neither of these added to the accusations, and in the case of the former, actually was a statement on my part that it wasn't something to pursue today anyhow. In the case of the latter, it was a probing into

Amished's

motivations, and not d3x, so once again you are completely wrong in your stated interpretation of the recent posts creating a "snowball" of accusation against d3x

Last, Amished's speculation is based on things that d3x hasn't had a chance to respond to for ~7 pages, and the accusations have only snowballed over time. (Which reminds me, his V/LA should be up today.) Even if the third party has "inside information", that player has no ulterior motive in revealing it when we're supposed to kill him anyway. Scum is scum.

Once again, wrong as I have just illustrated. There has been no snowball of accusations. 2nd, if you have absolute information that a player is 3rd party,

maybe

we could have a nice long argument over whether you lynch them on day 1. I say no. But in this case, where Amished is just speculating? Definitely hell no. But in the meantime, you figure out just where Amished got the idea of a 3rd party. Because he's scum and knows the numbers? Or he has a gun too and thought to look out for one? Prior to Don shooting, I didnt have that answer. I don't really now, though I suspect you are right and everyone does have one.

BTW unlike Don's assessment, you always look like scum who might be town to me, not the other way around.