Mini 880 - Mini Quick and Dirty - Game Over


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Post Post #400 (ISO) » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:18 pm

Post by SerialClergyman »

And there you go again.

I'm done here.
You deliberately created that wagon. It wasn't an accident. You set out to create a wagon and did it. I don't understand your objection to the word deliberately.

@ Amished

It's a language thing. It sounded to me like he wasn't taking as much responsibility as he should. If I accuse him tomorrow of being scum because he voted Sando, I'm sure he'd use every argument in that post against me (aka I was on the wagon early and stayed on it all day, believed it, I wasn't opportunistic etc)

As for PZ, I am saying his actions today have been anti-town. I don't think it's particularly more likely to make him scum, I see him doing this as scum or town. I agree with him about Zorblag and am a little conflicted about a few other aspects of his game, but overall I'm not really leaning one way or the other.

But his entire contribution to the game so far has been poor, in my opinion.
I'm old now.
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Post Post #401 (ISO) » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:24 pm

Post by SerialClergyman »

EBWOP *sigh* I need to learn to edit.

Some of that was unclear.

Amished - re: Zorblag, I'm saying I think taking responsibility for your vote is protown. If Sando is scum, I will take full responsibility for pushign this hard against his lynch. What I'm saying, though, is Zorblag's post did NOT look like he was taking responsibility, it looked like he was actually shirking it in a backhanded way.

About PZ - I think his reaction to my criticism was an overreaction, and his attempt to turn it around as some kind of OMGUS or scummy point from me were possibly scummy, (the reasoning of this has never been stated and the question was ignored when I posed it to him) but on the other hand it's pretty abrasive to be called useless so he could just be not taking the criticism well. I need to do more thinking about him and his positions before I'm more clear on my stance on him.
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Post Post #402 (ISO) » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:25 pm

Post by Amished »

So, a bad neutral? Still a weird as hell viewpoint IMO, but ok.
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

No, my name is not "Ed."
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Post Post #403 (ISO) » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:27 pm

Post by SerialClergyman »

Why is that weird? It's how I consider most VIs for example.

(Not that PZ is a VI - just making the point it's possible to have a bad/neutral view)
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Post Post #404 (ISO) » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:42 pm

Post by Amished »

Yeah, I normally just lynch VI's to give them a swift "punishment" to try to deal with the things that they did wrong that game.
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

No, my name is not "Ed."
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Post Post #405 (ISO) » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:55 pm

Post by BigBear »

Finally, Some action is being taken!
Cried
BigBear,
Bring the man here! We're going to hang him!
in the haste of the day the townsfolk quickly pointed at each other for who did the evil dead of murder. Eventually as the day advanced the town began to direct all of their attention to two men. In the haste of the day, and the thirst for vengeance nearly everyone pointed at
Sando.
BigBear
began to walk slowly towards Sando, carrying a loose rope.
Come with me!
he yelled.
BigBear
with the rest of the men in the saloon walked with hast outside to the center of town where the entire town watched as the men dragged Sando to the Tree of Life as some called it. This tree was the benchmark of the town's cultivation. It led to prosperity and wealth in the mid 1930's. However, when someone needed to be put in his or her place, this was also the spot for that.
BigBear
threw the rope over the strongest branch of the tree and put Sando on a stool. After tying rope tight to an iron wedge, he kicked the stool from underneath poor Sando's body. After forty-five to fifty seconds of struggling Sando gave his last breath to this world, which a quick whisper,
I'm innoce....


In search of the truth one man reached into Sands pockets to see if there was any indication of scum upon him. Searching through the wallet proved worthless. Hidden in Sando's coat pocket was a small business card. Apparently Sando owned the local grocery store.
Sando was obviously not scum, just a regular townsfolk.


Lynch Vote Count

Charlatan (1) - AGar
Amished (4) - Sando, SerialClergyman, VP Balter, ODDin
Sando (7) -
Scien, Amished, Zorblag, Charlatan, Raskol, Ojanen, Papa Zito


Not Voting:



Sando -Townsfolk - Hung Day 1


Alright, everyone move along
yelled
BigBear
,
Everyone get a good night's sleep. You'll need it for tomorrow's debating...


Night 1 Commences - All players with night actions must send them to me within 48 hours.
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Post Post #406 (ISO) » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:04 am

Post by BigBear »

Everyone awoke the next morning with hopes of catching the scum that killed these people. In the morning most of the group went for breakfast together. Surprisingly only one missed out. Everyone figured that he must have overslept. On the way from the small restaurant the group was walking past the post office when one member happened to glance down the dark alleyway and thought he saw a body. He screamed at everyone to stop and look. The party put BigBear in search of the body, and to find who it was. After BigBear came back, he had a sad look on his face. This sadness then soon turned to anger.
We need to get back to the saloon NOW! And figure out who did this! Otherwise
SerialClergyman's
death will go in vain.


SerialClergyman - Townsfolk - Murdered Night 1



Day 2 starts now.
Deadline is in 12 days.

Everyone is not voting.

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Post Post #407 (ISO) » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:59 am

Post by Amished »

@Mod: I will be going on vacation from the 30th of November to the 8th of December (halfway through the day til past deadline). I've had this set up for a long time (actually going to Germany for a Christmas market tour); and it's not something I can (or would want to) get out of. If you need to replace me today; I understand and apologize :(
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

No, my name is not "Ed."
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Post Post #408 (ISO) » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:36 pm

Post by ODDin »

I'm somewhat down with a nasty cold, which means I likely won't be too active in the near future.

That being said, my arguments from yesterday still stand. I've been wanting to look more closely at Zorblag - his behaviour seems somewhat fence-sitting-ish. But I'll do that when my brain works more properly.

Anyways, to get things rolling:

vote: PapaZito
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Post Post #409 (ISO) » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:55 pm

Post by Papa Zito »

BigBear wrote:
SerialClergyman - Townsfolk - Murdered Night 1
lol scum
ODDin wrote:Anyways, to get things rolling:

vote: PapaZito
Mmhmm.
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Post Post #410 (ISO) » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:21 pm

Post by Ojanen »

@ODDin: can you remind me of your main reason to vote for Papa Zito?
Amished wrote:@OJ: I believe you asked the question posed to me at the end of 349 (at least I remember writing a response); but I like to get a feel for competency judged from my perspective, what they pick up on so I know to focus on something else if I get a town read on them as they're better in a certain area of scumhunting than I am.
No, I didn't ask this earlier. I was juxtaposing a similar answer to this to your early stance of finding meta pretty useless when Raskol was collecting links. You haven't clarified me anything about this yet.
Zorblag wrote:Here be some reasons that Troll be voting for you [Sando]:
The amount of complaining that people were asking for reads and votes rather than simlpy doing what you said you were doing, sharing opinions. It was an easy thing to make go away and yet you seemed to encourage it which made it a distraction.
Troll, can you exlain why you found the last sentence to be a scum tell?
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Post Post #411 (ISO) » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:08 am

Post by ODDin »

Still a bit sick, but I see there's disturbingly little activity, so I'll at least answer OJ to maybe help move this somewhere.

My main reason for voting PZ is that he voted based on a case which was factually wrong, and refused to explain his actions when his mistakes were brought up.

Specifically:
1) He said my initial vote on eKim was random - it wasn't (which is clearly seen in post 77).
2) He said it was scummy that I didn't switch from a random vote on eKim to voting for himself. I've explained much earlier in the thread that I found eKim more suspicious than PZ based on the info I then had (post 200)
3) He said I was late to react to things that were already in the game for a long time. Looking at the posts clearly explains that I reacted to said things the moment I saw them.

That's the heart of it. There was also the issue of PZ's bandwagon on SC and all that and stuff that VP said - which I do find a little scummy, but they aren't my main reason for voting.
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Post Post #412 (ISO) » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:53 am

Post by BigBear »

Is anyone opposed to Albert B. Rampage replacing Amished?
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Post Post #413 (ISO) » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:51 am

Post by AGar »

No.

oDDin, I don't like that vote.

Vote: oDDin
Ski mask? Check! Sawed off? Check! Guilty conscience, fear of death? Check! Check! Check!

Get to know me. Or don't. I won't tell you what to do. I'm not God. Or your father. Or your boss.
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Post Post #414 (ISO) » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:04 am

Post by ODDin »

BigBear wrote:
Is anyone opposed to Albert B. Rampage replacing Amished?
No.

AGar wrote:oDDin, I don't like that vote.
Care to elaborate?
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Post Post #415 (ISO) » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:31 am

Post by Zorblag »

And I'm back. RL has been giving me fits but I think that I should be out of the woods after this afternoon. I'll have a real post this evening.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh
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Post Post #416 (ISO) » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:58 am

Post by Scien »

I'm around... but the won't be able to post due to holiday stuff until Monday. Sorry.
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Post Post #417 (ISO) » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:28 pm

Post by BigBear »

I'm giving more leeway to LA's around this time, mainly because of the holidays. I find it very understandable. I will be sending ABR a notification shortly.
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Post Post #418 (ISO) » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by charlatan »

Add my name to the list of people sorry for not posting. Holidays and whatnot. It's late now, so I'll catch up tomorrow.
- [color=navy] charlatan[/color]
[color=maroon]every sermon is not the gospel[/color]
[color=navy]more or less done here; will maybe consider invites or replacing into your game if you're in a bind on a case-by-case basis. (low probability.)[/color]
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Post Post #419 (ISO) » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:04 pm

Post by charlatan »

Don't have much to contribute at the moment, honestly. I know we're all distracted by the holidays. I'm going to ask a few questions and see if we can't get a little discussion rolling anyways.

@VP Baltar:

Yesterday, this was the post from you in the final pages of the day explaining your vote:
VP Baltar wrote:Ok, caught up. I think I'm going to oblige SC this game. His case against Amished wasn't extremely moving, but there is something about Amished's play this game that isn't quite sitting right with me. I don't generally vote on gut reasons alone, but I'm rather pressed for time atm and Sando's latest bout of stamping his feet posting is nagging at me as honest.
Of course, as it turns out, those not on the bandwagon were correct. Would it be fair to say that your vote on Amished was almost entirely based on gut? And that your decision to stay off of the Sando wagon was based on gut?
Amished wrote:@OJ: I believe you asked the question posed to me at the end of 349 (at least I remember writing a response); but I like to get a feel for competency judged from my perspective, what they pick up on so I know to focus on something else if I get a town read on them as they're better in a certain area of scumhunting than I am.
What would some of these "areas of scumhunting" be? Like, what's your best area of scumhunting? And your weakest?
- [color=navy] charlatan[/color]
[color=maroon]every sermon is not the gospel[/color]
[color=navy]more or less done here; will maybe consider invites or replacing into your game if you're in a bind on a case-by-case basis. (low probability.)[/color]
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Post Post #420 (ISO) » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:41 pm

Post by Raskol »

"And Raskol learned that he hated limited reveal, and he was depressed."-The Book of Mafia, Chapter 8 Verse 11

I'm going to have to do a re-reading of this game: I honestly have very little idea at this point. I hope to fix that and have something useful to say in the near future.
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Post Post #421 (ISO) » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:58 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Hi. I'll be L/A for the next week or so, posting only sporadically. It's up to BigBear to choose whether he wants me to replace or not.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
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Post Post #422 (ISO) » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:49 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Hi guys, I'm back from V/LA now. Looks like I don't have much to catch up on, so I'll get something up today most likely.
YOUR AD HERE

Too busy with work to play mafia right now but I shall return some day!
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Post Post #423 (ISO) » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:27 am

Post by Scien »

OODin... all your current reasons for your vote are reactions to actions he has taken against you. Could you explain why his actions make him more likely to be scum in your eyes? Right now it looks vaguely defensive.

Do you have any concerns of PapaZ that involve his actions to others in this game? Or is all of your complaints just interactions between you two?


This killing of SC is funny in my book. I know trying to draw conclusions from it is WIFOM, but I would be lying if I said I didn't think it was made to draw attention towards PapaZ. Yes I know that this is a bit of an assumption, but it is my views right now.


Welcome ABR.
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Post Post #424 (ISO) » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:21 am

Post by ODDin »

I'm getting the feeling people aren't really reading my posts, but I'll repeat my arguments yet again.

1.

Let's disregard for a second the fact that PZ's case was against me. He made a case against a player which was factually wrong. All of the arguments were wrong - no interpretation or subjectivity here, the arguments were completely wrong. (See my posts 280 and 296)
When this is pointed out, he doesn't say anything on the subject and essentially disregards the issue. He even proceeds to accuse me of WIFOM for this.
And this is his best case until the end of D1 - a case based on nonexistent arguments.
Now, why would PZ, an experienced player, have a case based on wrong arguments as his prime case? The option that makes the most sense to me is that he's fabricated it - I find it pretty hard to believe that he wouldn't have understood that his arguments are wrong. Maybe he'd say so at first, but if he was genuine about it, I'd expect him to back off and admit to his mistakes.
So, the only explanation I can find is that he's fabricated the case deliberately, that he knows that it's completely bullshit, and still pursues it. I think it's obvious why I think his actions make him more likely to be scum, then.

2.

The above isn't my only issue with PZ - and I've said this before as well. I think that he created generated confusion with his wagon on SC, which he could've avoided. This confusion has hurt the town. Later, as SC has pointed out near the end of the day and partially in twilight, he didn't attempt to use the information that it has generated. I think that although it didn't work out quite like he'd want it to, it still could have been used as a tool for gaining some info.
Also, there's the whole issue with VP, which I also find a little scummy, but I don't want to recap it for fear of putting words into people's mouths.


Other stuff

As I said I'd do, I reread most of Zorblag's posts. There is a slight fence-sitting vibe coming from him, though it's less severe than the first impression I've had. He's saying various opinions and sharing observations, but doesn't really commit to anything too strongly or push anything too far. He says that it's just an impression and that he does, in fact, commit to things strongly - but it doesn't change the fact that the impression is there.
However, in both games I've played with him he replaced into the game at some point, which may account for me getting the feeling he's more active.
So I'm watching him pretty closely at the moment and he's somewhat scummy in my eyes, but I'll wait to see how he acts today.

Also, I really wish to apologise on my issue with Zorblag's Troll Speak. Maybe it's because English is, technically, my third language, but it is harder for me to read his posts than it is to read "normal" posts. :(

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