Newbie 869 - Game over

[SensFan]

What I see:

1 You are aggressive in your posts. Whether this is on purpose or not, I don't know.
2. I have no meta on either of you.
3. Hypocritical? Is it bad of me to say that (even after being alive for 37 years) I don't understand this word well enough to agree or disagree?

1. I'm a very aggressive player, that's just how I am. Not indicative of alignment.
2. The onyl relevant meta is that in every single game (3? 4?) I have played with DLA, he has been convinced I am Scum, and tunnelled on me pretty much to the exclusion of anyone else. Every time I've been Town.
3. He is implying I'm scummy for not doing something, then refuses to do that thing himself.

[Mr Finch]

1. I'm a very aggressive player, that's just how I am. Not indicative of alignment.
2. The onyl relevant meta is that in every single game (3? 4?) I have played with DLA, he has been convinced I am Scum, and tunnelled on me pretty much to the exclusion of anyone else. Every time I've been Town.
3. He is implying I'm scummy for not doing something, then refuses to do that thing himself.

1. Not necessarily a bad thing.
2. Well, 4 games and you've been Town, you've got to turn up scum sometime!
3. Thanks. So, following on from that you're suggesting it makes him scummy too? No FoS or vote for him - are you just pissed about the way he's treating you? I Need to create a favourite to an online dictionary I think!

[DarkLightA]

Hypocritical? Is it bad of me to say that (even after being alive for 37 years) I don't understand this word well enough to agree or disagree?

A hypocrite is a person who says one thing and does the opposite.

----

Sens, I'll explain post-game. For now I'm not saying anything.

[SensFan]

1. I'm a very aggressive player, that's just how I am. Not indicative of alignment.
2. The onyl relevant meta is that in every single game (3? 4?) I have played with DLA, he has been convinced I am Scum, and tunnelled on me pretty much to the exclusion of anyone else. Every time I've been Town.
3. He is implying I'm scummy for not doing something, then refuses to do that thing himself.

1. Not necessarily a bad thing.
2. Well, 4 games and you've been Town, you've got to turn up scum sometime!
3. Thanks. So, following on from that you're suggesting it makes him scummy too? No FoS or vote for him - are you just pissed about the way he's treating you? I Need to create a favourite to an online dictionary I think!

1. Agreed. Some people are loud, some are quiet. Some are cautious, some are aggressive. As long as they are playing to help the Town, don't let that colour your judgement of them.
2. That's the Gambiter's Fallacy you've got going there. I have the same chance as being Town in this game, as in every other game.
3. I do think he's scummy, very much so. I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being. I don't bother with FoS.

DLA, that's not going to fly. Why would I let you get away with waiting until the post-game to explain something? What if I had told you to wait until post-game to hear about my reasoning for Elli being Scum?

[Mr Finch]

1. Agreed. Some people are loud, some are quiet. Some are cautious, some are aggressive. As long as they are playing to help the Town, don't let that colour your judgement of them.
2. That's the Gambiter's Fallacy you've got going there. I have the same chance as being Town in this game, as in every other game.
3. I do think he's scummy, very much so. I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being. I don't bother with FoS.

DLA, that's not going to fly. Why would I let you get away with waiting until the post-game to explain something? What if I had told you to wait until post-game to hear about my reasoning for Elli being Scum?

1. I don't intend to. I have read a few other games (not with other players from this game in) and can see that, really, it doesn't make too much difference.
2. Yup. I knew that even before I posted it. Hence the smiley.
3. I need to re-read.

DLA - I don't like that either.

[jee]

@jee - Do you read the thread? I posted that access would be limited for me back in post 100.

booo i guess i'll come back to it in a few days.

You're kidding right? Please tell me you're not serious. Just 'cos Elli's away doesn't mean you can't offer opinions on other people. Do you still feel that Deer is scum? Are YOU bussing?

Do you read the thread? It wasn't directed at you. It was directed at Elli.... which I quoted right before I said it.

I can offer opinions, I was actually just about to post something to someone..which will be later in this post.

I haven't talked enough to Deer, like i said, he kind of disappeared. Why does everyone seem to think someone is bussing right when they accuse someone....

anyway.

Sorry for the disappearance!

I've been reading the thread, but I don't know what to add at this point. The whole 'DarkLightA vs. jee vs. deer vs. SensFan vs. Ellibereth' is getting a little bit overwhelming. I'm just not sure what questions to ask at this point.

At this point, I don't even have a strong enough leaning to even give some input or pressure on a player.
I'll reread the thread and see if I can find any information that hasn't been brought up, but it seems like to many players are on a defensive track to establish who's most likely trying to hide something.

This post jumped out at me and I completely disagree with it. The WHOLE post is basically telling us he is fencesitting. You are trying to not take a side at all. There are always things to be asked.

FoS: Arthur Dent

[Deer]

Sorry for the lack of talking, I have been really, really busy in my real life.

But to weigh in on this whole situation, I think DLA really needs to back up his claims. This post :

Stop avoiding the question. You've said I'm suspicious, now man up and explain yourself, with quotes.

Because you seem to be against everything. I'm explaining no further.

is bizarre to me. Things like this need to be explained - you can't say "I'm explaining no further" and except anyone else to believe it. Not sure it's a scumtell, necessarily, but it definitely doesn't help you look pro-town.

[Arthur Dent]

Arthur Dent wrote:
Sorry for the disappearance!

I've been reading the thread, but I don't know what to add at this point. The whole 'DarkLightA vs. jee vs. deer vs. SensFan vs. Ellibereth' is getting a little bit overwhelming. I'm just not sure what questions to ask at this point.

At this point, I don't even have a strong enough leaning to even give some input or pressure on a player.
I'll reread the thread and see if I can find any information that hasn't been brought up, but it seems like to many players are on a defensive track to establish who's most likely trying to hide something.

This post jumped out at me and I completely disagree with it. The WHOLE post is basically telling us he is fencesitting. You are trying to not take a side at all. There are always things to be asked.

FoS: Arthur Dent

Oh, an FoS! Exciting!

I'll admit, I'm an indecisive player. I don't like taking sides unless I have a gut feeling. Right now though my feeling is either Deer, jee, Ellibereth. DarkLightA's logic on Post 44 stuck out to me. I think the likely hood of one of the three being scum is pretty good.

I'm leaning toward Elli, based on his defensiveness when asked questions throughout the beginning. He tried to duck behind the same broken down logic of 'L-2 doesn't equal lynch.' Also, he tried to shift any responsability of a kill to the players who 'hammered' saying they would be scum. Maybe it's just me, but I read all of his post as awfully defensive.

[Deer]

I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being.

I'm interested about this "slip". Not trying to defend either one of you for now - I'm just curious. Care to elaborate?

[SensFan]

I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being.

I'm interested about this "slip". Not trying to defend either one of you for now - I'm just curious. Care to elaborate?

Are you bothering to read the thread? I've explained it two, if not three times already.

[jee]

Things like this need to be explained - you can't say "I'm explaining no further" and except anyone else to believe it. Not sure it's a scumtell, necessarily, but it definitely doesn't help you look pro-town.

fensesitting

[DarkLightA]

Arthur Dent wrote:
Sorry for the disappearance!

I've been reading the thread, but I don't know what to add at this point. The whole 'DarkLightA vs. jee vs. deer vs. SensFan vs. Ellibereth' is getting a little bit overwhelming. I'm just not sure what questions to ask at this point.

At this point, I don't even have a strong enough leaning to even give some input or pressure on a player.
I'll reread the thread and see if I can find any information that hasn't been brought up, but it seems like to many players are on a defensive track to establish who's most likely trying to hide something.

This post jumped out at me and I completely disagree with it. The WHOLE post is basically telling us he is fencesitting. You are trying to not take a side at all. There are always things to be asked.

FoS: Arthur Dent

Oh, an FoS! Exciting!

I'll admit, I'm an indecisive player. I don't like taking sides unless I have a gut feeling. Right now though my feeling is either Deer, jee, Ellibereth. DarkLightA's logic on Post 44 stuck out to me. I think the likely hood of one of the three being scum is pretty good.

I'm leaning toward Elli, based on his defensiveness when asked questions throughout the beginning. He tried to duck behind the same broken down logic of 'L-2 doesn't equal lynch.' Also, he tried to shift any responsability of a kill to the players who 'hammered' saying they would be scum. Maybe it's just me, but I read all of his post as awfully defensive.

Unvote
Vote: Arthur Dent

I've seen a pattern in scum. You seem like one of them. Partly because of your leniency towards people you suspect, and the way you're not committing yourself to voting.

[SensFan]

Let me guess...we'll get the reasoning for that vote in the post-game as well?

[Mr Finch]

Do you read the thread? It wasn't directed at you. It was directed at Elli.... which I quoted right before I said it.

Yes, I read and re-read and re-reread the thread. And if Elli is going to be away for two or three days, what was the point of saying it? There wasn't any.

I can offer opinions, I was actually just about to post something to someone..which will be later in this post.

I haven't talked enough to Deer, like i said, he kind of disappeared. Why does everyone seem to think someone is bussing right when they accuse someone....

Did I say I thought you were bussing? No. I asked if you were. It was a straight yes or no answer question.

Not talked enough? It's hardly surprising when all you can do is make posts like "fensesitting" (SIC) rather than make a decent statement.

I believe that you are active lurking and not offering anything pro-town, so I am not sitting on the fence:

Vote: Jee

Would be great to hear from Kami-Sama who has (I think) posted nothing since last Friday.

[jee]

Do you read the thread? It wasn't directed at you. It was directed at Elli.... which I quoted right before I said it.

Yes, I read and re-read and re-reread the thread. And if Elli is going to be away for two or three days, what was the point of saying it? There wasn't any.

then what was the point of saying i was talking to you

I can offer opinions, I was actually just about to post something to someone..which will be later in this post.

I haven't talked enough to Deer, like i said, he kind of disappeared. Why does everyone seem to think someone is bussing right when they accuse someone....

Did I say I thought you were bussing? No. I asked if you were. It was a straight yes or no answer question.

You were not the only one who suggested bussing.... There were others, example:

@Jee: What the hell is that unexplained vote for? Bussing deer much?

Unvote, Vote jee

I believe that you are active lurking and not offering anything pro-town, so I am not sitting on the fence

Really...? If you think I have a problem with lurking and not offering you really need to look into other people. You've had it out for me since my vote on Deer, and I can't figure out why. I'm an aggressive player. You really need to stop tunnel visioning before something happens. I hate referring to other games becaues I myself hate reading full sets of games when someone points them out, BUT, I played in Newbie 819 as a mafia member. This playstyle is completely different, but I dont think anyone is going to bring attention to themselves as mafia (call is WIFOM or whatever). And something has bothering me with ArthurDent

Arthur Dent stuck out a lot to me after his #122. This is a bad case of fensesitting and it stuck out a lot. Scum players can be indecisive because they know who the real mafia is. Its easier for them to not get involved with accusing someone, then it is to lurk and fense sit. After I accused him of it, all he had was:

I'll admit, I'm an indecisive player. I don't like taking sides unless I have a gut feeling.

He blames his very scummy post on his playstyle.

Unvote
Vote: ArthurDent

[Deer]

I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being.

I'm interested about this "slip". Not trying to defend either one of you for now - I'm just curious. Care to elaborate?

Are you bothering to read the thread? I've explained it two, if not three times already.

Is it the whole thing where you said Elli was scummy cause she thought she kept talking about bussing and scumpairs? Sorry, I figured a slip was more of just a passing comment that accidentally gave one away. Keep in mind, I am still a noob

[SensFan]

I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being.

I'm interested about this "slip". Not trying to defend either one of you for now - I'm just curious. Care to elaborate?

Are you bothering to read the thread? I've explained it two, if not three times already.

Is it the whole thing where you said Elli was scummy cause she thought she kept talking about bussing and scumpairs? Sorry, I figured a slip was more of just a passing comment that accidentally gave one away. Keep in mind, I am still a noob

I have a theory.

My theory is that Elli had a scumpartner mention bussing, or has read previous games where scum mention bussing, but didn't know what the term meant. So she used it, because it really doesn't make sense for her to accuse someone of bussing D1. Then when I called her on it, she looked it up.

Am I looking too hard into this?

[RPG*Twilight]

Arthur Dent: I really have one question for you. If you had facts on a person, would you vote them? Or do you only go off "gut feeling"... because that's a horrible way to go about this game, IMO.

DarklightA: Why would you wait until after the game to tell us anything about someone... isnt the point to give the information so you and everyone else can have said information to make a decision to lynch... why would the information be useful at all after the fact? It's like saying you'll vote for the president after he's been elected.

That is just driving my scumdar crazy... I have no idea how to take this.

That being said, it does look like your bouncing around your vote quite a bit, DLA... From the RVS to voting Jee to Dent.

I've seen a pattern in scum. You seem like one of them. Partly because of your leniency towards people you suspect,

and the way you're not committing yourself to voting

.

Interesting. For two reasons. You're not committing to voting or to helping the town by withholding information about SensFan. I do see in the beginning you were against my L-2 lynch, pro-town, yes. But is it smoke and mirrors? From your latest actions, it does kind of sound like it, doesnt it?

Unvote
Vote:DarklightA

You have been pretty inconsistent in this game, from defending a lynch to now just muting yourself pretty much.

One last point:

A hypocrite is a person who says one thing and does the opposite.

and to reitierate the quote from above:

I've seen a pattern in scum. You seem like one of them. Partly because of your leniency towards people you suspect,

and the way you're not committing yourself to voting

.

Just a thought...

[DarkLightA]

Let me guess...we'll get the reasoning for that vote in the post-game as well?

I believe I explained it well.

DarklightA: Why would you wait until after the game to tell us anything about someone... isnt the point to give the information so you and everyone else can have said information to make a decision to lynch... why would the information be useful at all after the fact? It's like saying you'll vote for the president after he's been elected.

The fact is that I think Sens is scummy in all games I play with him.

Interesting. For two reasons. You're not committing to voting or to helping the town by withholding information about SensFan. I do see in the beginning you were against my L-2 lynch, pro-town, yes. But is it smoke and mirrors? From your latest actions, it does kind of sound like it, doesnt it?

Okay, that's NOT a good reason to vote. If you were to do a little reread (only 5 pages!), you would find that I've said that I have 3 suspects, one of them is Sens. I have constantly had a vote on one of them.

A hypocrite is a person who says one thing and does the opposite.

and to reitierate the quote from above:

I've seen a pattern in scum. You seem like one of them. Partly because of your leniency towards people you suspect,

and the way you're not committing yourself to voting

.

Just a thought...

[/quote]
Are you sure?

[SensFan]

DarklightA: Why would you wait until after the game to tell us anything about someone... isnt the point to give the information so you and everyone else can have said information to make a decision to lynch... why would the information be useful at all after the fact? It's like saying you'll vote for the president after he's been elected.

The fact is that I think Sens is scummy in all games I play with him.

The solution is to realize you need a different way of reading me, not to just decide to vote me and never provide reasons.

Vote: DarkLight

I've had enough of your games.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Arthur Dent - 3 (Kami-Sama, DarkLightA, jee)

Deer - 1 (Mr Finch)
jee - 2 (Ellibereth, Deer)
DarkLightA - 2 (RPG*Twilight, SensFan)

Not Voting - 1 (Arthur Dent)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Monday, December 7.

[RPG*Twilight]

Okay DarklightA, I really just have one question for you.

How do you see yourself helping the town by withholding information?

I'm really curious, because I see no possible way that helps.

[Mr Finch]

MOD: My vote's on Jee, not Deer. Also, can we get a prod on Kami please?

[Mr Finch]

MOD: My vote's on Jee, not Deer. Also, can we get a prod on Kami please?

Ah, bugger. Ignore the first bit of that, I just realised that I didn't unvote.

So:

Unvote

Vote: Jee

[Arthur Dent]

And something has bothering me with ArthurDent

Arthur Dent stuck out a lot to me after his #122. This is a bad case of fensesitting and it stuck out a lot. Scum players can be indecisive because they know who the real mafia is. Its easier for them to not get involved with accusing someone, then it is to lurk and fense sit. After I accused him of it, all he had was:

Arthur Dent wrote:
I'll admit, I'm an indecisive player. I don't like taking sides unless I have a gut feeling.
He blames his very scummy post on his playstyle.

Unvote
Vote: ArthurDent

I'm a bit baffled at how I'm fence sitting. A fence sitting is someone who's torn between two sides, but I've already said that I have one way I'm leaning. So if I am fence sitting, then the two sides are 'am I right? and 'am I wrong?' And if that's scummy, you'll have to explain it to me, because I don't get it.
Plus, I'd rather be an 'indecisive player' than use the erratic play style you've been using.

Arthur Dent: I really have one question for you. If you had facts on a person, would you vote them? Or do you only go off "gut feeling"... because that's a horrible way to go about this game, IMO.

Oh, goodness, if I had facts on a person, I'd vote for them in a heartbeat. Anybody's initial instinct can be wrong. But, from my experience, people instincts can be good ones. The fact may come over the instinct, but I've always believed in following your gut until either more proof comes along to prove or debunk your initial gut.
Currently, my gut is still telling me Elli.

I was waiting for him to get back from his absense. But with three votes, I may not get a chance too.

Vote: Ellibereth