Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[hitogoroshi]

Vote Count, Day 2, Post Day Kill

hiphop ( 1 ) - Xylthixlm
shotty to the body ( 0 )
charter ( 0 )
Energetic Penguin ( 0 )
hitogoroshi ( 1 ) - RayFrost
Idiotking ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
Infinis ( 0 )
Xylthixlm ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 4 ) - Infinis - Vi - roflcopter - charter
Pads ( 1 ) - SpyreX
popsofctown ( 0 )
Zakeri ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 1 ) - Idiotking
RedCoyote ( 1 ) - hiphop
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 2 ) - shotty to the body - sotty7
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 0 )
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 7 ) - shotty to the body - Energetic Penguin - Maemuki - popsofctown - Zakeri - sigma - Pads - sotty7 - hitogoroshi
Total Votes ( 19 )

With 19 alive, 10 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 12th, 10am EST

You may have noticed that I didn't unvote because of what was being said against me, but what wasn't said about the vote. To quote my last post:

Though, that being said, if none of you agree with my gut re: listmaking, then I'm probably in the wrong here, so I guess I'll unvote.

Is it so scummy to think that maybe your gut can be wrong if no one agrees?

[RayFrost]

You may have noticed that I didn't unvote because of what was being said against me, but what wasn't said about the vote. To quote my last post:

Though, that being said,

if none of you agree with my gut

re: listmaking, then I'm probably in the wrong here, so I guess I'll unvote.

Is it so scummy to think that maybe your gut can be wrong if no one agrees?

implies that others said you were wrong, but I was the only one, IIRC

[hitogoroshi]

Vi and Red also said it was weak. Regardless, I was looking for positive evidence: I thought it seemed like a scumtell and I offered up my best guess as to what was setting off my gut. Having multiple people who know what they're talking about say no without anyone saying yes really suggests that I'm just wrong about it, rather than it being some higher-level scumtell only I can comprehend. Perhaps I'm a bit too quick to abandon my reads but I think via the whole 'first rule of catching those who stick out from the crowd: be a crowd' principle, it's better to do so than to overly tunnel and put too much faith into my own instincts.

[Xylthixlm]

hitogoroshi, has anyone ever told you that you picked a bad username? Seriously, "murderer"? I'm going to expect you to be scum in every game...

[Zakeri]

Vote: Maemuki

I have a Mason reading between him/her and Elvis_Knits.

[hitogoroshi]

hitogoroshi, has anyone ever told you that you picked a bad username? Seriously, "murderer"? I'm going to expect you to be scum in every game...

Yeah, I picked it when I was a weaboo 13 year old at a different forum, and now I kinda use it separate of it's Japanese origin because it's just my net handle and I've grown in to it as my identity. I've actually been trying to just get "hito" (or failing that, "flaminghito") on sites I register for now because I kind of hate the kind of person who takes words in a language they don't know and uses them and so this username makes me a hypocrite. :/

[Shotty to the Body]

hitogoroshi, has anyone ever told you that you picked a bad username? Seriously, "murderer"? I'm going to expect you to be scum in every game...

My name is about blowing people away with a shotgun why don't I get a scum-tell for it?

[Shotty to the Body]

I suspect IK is town, though I don't really follow his question towards Vi.... Maemuki is a fine lynch after reading bunny's posts, I'll have more for you all tomorrow.

[RedCoyote]

I was intending to make a long post, but I don't really see the necessity. The only thing I wanted to touch on was that hiphop's vote is no different from Vi's earlier one, and that I am suspicious of the sudden drop in activity in Mae and pops.

I don't know what Mae is doing, but with the holiday around the corner, she sure isn't putting too much stock in defending herself. Other than Xyl's earlier post, I'm hardpressed to see any sort of defense for Mae. How rofl is really wrong here? The elvis connection was solid, and couple that with the decrease in activity, the lame exchange with Vi earlier, and the general uneasy vibe I got from her D1, I don't see any reason not to

unvote

.

Idiotking is more and more moving into my undecided column. elvis was kind of pushing him late D1, but he seems pretty calm and collected. In a sense, Idiotking is a good example of how to go into D2, how to handle an imaginality scumflip, and Mae is, well, opposite of that.

Let's

vote: Maemuki

.

[hiphop]

hiphop, please vote for elvis. your argument that a lack of elvis->imag connections means the imag->elvis connection isn't as strong is flawed.

this is the only time elvis mentions imag yesterday:

Imaginality's reads are all over the place

its an incredibly noncommittal comment. it draws no conclusions one way or the other as to what this could mean about imaginality's alignment. believe me when i tell you that scum are absolutely loathe to commit to an opinion about their scumpartners, to the point where they often ignore them altogether.

Back to Sotty.

You talk about ignoring someone, take a look at elvis's posts on sotty. I found one. here He attacks people for being on the confid and csl wagons. Yet he says this

Pops and sotty probably strike me as the most protown of the bunch. sotty especially I remember being well-thought out yesterday.

These are the only two sentences that he talks about sotty in the entire game. Than we have sotty's only post on elvis found here

Vote: Elvis

I just felt like she wasn't fully here yesterday and I do agree with Vi that she was on the “easy targets” I am having a little issue here in that I am not fully sold on Vitown and also Elvis is voting for Sigma who is still someone very high on my list for scum. So yeah I am feeling torn.

What? This made six votes on elvis. Well after the town's feelings were known. Take into account that sotty did not want to put down his vote, and we have scum. This post shows that sotty did not want to go against the town, but still wanted to persuade people not to join the bw. Since I believe that rc is scum, and I don't have two votes, I will

fos Sotty

. It is also interesting to note that that quote is also the only time that elvis mentions pops name too. I need to look into that.

I fail to see why Sotty's name not appearing in Imaginality's read would make Sotty a likely candidate for a buddy. Someone like Vi, who is very prominent, is an absence that is rather curious, but Sotty hasn't talked much at all. Also, that Imaginality was willing to openly support Sotty's points without provocation indicates a more likely chance of Sotty being town.

What do you think about sotty now?

mod: post 1013 and 1022 says we have two votes for sigma

yes I am straight up opposed to a sigma lynch, if all the evidence one has is connections to elvis. Post 93 (yes same link) tells

me

for now that sigma and elvis are not connected. Because of imag's posts, I don't like a idk lynch either, unless it is for an SK, or 2nd mafia group (I don't think there is one).

@rc- What is wrong if my case looks like vi's( not saying it is) If I believe you are scum, because of the way you act and some of your actions are scummy, than yes I will put my vote where it belongs. (Still need to post it. I don't think I have room in this post)

You are right. Where is pops? Give mamuki another day (make it a full 72 hours and don't jump the gun), but pops needs to post.

mod: prod pops

Sotty you want elaboration. For me it is post 441 and post 616 that does it. He says look at these votes, but he doesn't make any comment of his own. Just a simple you do the thinking. What does the tell you? Also, take into account, if a player makes a scummy post, what does he have to do to redeem himself? For me he hasn't redeemed himself.

[RedCoyote]

@rc- What is wrong if my case looks like vi's( not saying it is) If I believe you are scum, because of the way you act and some of your actions are scummy, than yes I will put my vote where it belongs. (Still need to post it. I don't think I have room in this post)

It's pure, unadulterated meta. I challenged Vi and got nothing, so I challenge you just the same. It's almost not even worth mentioning your vote, and I don't think I even would have but for the complete opposite direction you're heading. You were building up something tangible against Sotty (who I think is suspiciously playing not up to her capacity), elvis is shot, and then you vote me? I don't understand where you're coming from, frankly.

[RayFrost]

oooo, I feel like hiphop is doing what I believe is known as flailing.

Cute.

FoS: hiphop

ftw

[sigma]

hitogoroshi's unvote is unusual, and RayFrost gets points for noticing it. I don't feel like he's had much of an impact on this game so far, but I haven't noticed anything scummy either. He's someone I want to keep an eye on.

---

Yeah, I can't ignore rofl's 1036. After reading for myself, Mae's constant defenses of e_k happen too much to be a coincidence.

Unvote

Vote: Maemuki

---

Hey look, E-Penguin's still in this game.

@Mod: Prod for E-Penguin, please

Also,

@Mod: V/LA Thursday through Saturday.

I'll try and check in when I can, but being at family's house means that this game will be a lower priority than usual.

[Vi]

Unvote

Vote: Maemuki

Vote: Maemuki

I have a Mason reading between him/her and Elvis_Knits.

Hop wagon easy!

(Bonus points for Zakeri's :?y reasoning - though it's the hardest stance he's taken so far)

weaboo

----

It's pure, unadulterated

scum

meta.

Fixed.
How does this contrast with

Sotty (who I think is suspiciously playing not up to her capacity)

?

[sigma]

Hop wagon easy!

Your hypocrisy/noise is getting really irritating. You hopped onto two of my wagons on D1 (ConfidAnon, CSL). Explain to me how that's different from what I just did with your Mae wagon.

[Vi]

Hop wagon easy!

Your hypocrisy/noise is getting really irritating. You hopped onto two of my wagons on D1 (ConfidAnon, CSL). Explain to me how that's different from what I just did with your Mae wagon.

I had pointed out a couple of times prior to my vote that CSL was indefensible. (plus yes, I did it to end the Day)
Contrast your votes today.
*Vi - oh Vi needs the pressure as public opinion starts swaying that way on its own
*Maemuki - what they said

Do you have any opinions that are

counter

to what everyone else believes? (aside from me=scum)
Do you believe I was correct in calling out Zakeri?
Do you have any opinion on E-Penguin, now that you've called him out for a prod?

[sigma]

Questions. Much better.

Do you have any opinions that are counter to what everyone else believes? (aside from me=scum)

hrm. counter-opinions.... well, I didn't think elvis_knits was scum. That's probably not the best example to bring up. Trying again...

Let's take a look at what 'everyone' believes right now... probably looks something like:

roflcopter=town
mae=scum

Honestly, I think those are the only consensus points right now, and I do agree with both of them. I do think that I've done a poor job of giving opinions on others, as I don't really have any decent scum-reads at this point other than you and Mae -- and I'm not that sure about you. I have more town-reads, but I don't really want to get into those in detail, as I don't want my town-reads night-killed. Let me get back to you on this point after I've done more homework.

Do you believe I was correct in calling out Zakeri?

Zakeri is absolutely a good callout. I would like to see more actual content from him.

Do you have any opinion on E-Penguin, now that you've called him out for a prod?

Honestly, Energetic Penguin has done a pretty good job of active lurking so far which looks scummy. But, it may be genuine lurking since he hasn't posted on this game day. I wanted a prod of him to see if the distinction holds true for day 2. If he responds to his prod with another wagon vote or similar, I will consider that extremely scummy.

---

@Zakeri: What is your opinion of vi? What is your opinion of me? Finally, what is your opinion of SpyreX? Please use words like 'leans town' or 'looks scummy' and provide reasons for your reads. Substitute a different set of 3 players if you want, but I'd really like to see some opinions from you on other players besides Mae at this point.

[Vi]

I'm not that sure about you. I have more town-reads, but I don't really want to get into those in detail, as I don't want my town-reads night-killed. Let me get back to you on this point after I've done more homework.

Have you had a problem with your Town reads getting killed in this game? (Other than e_knits)

[sigma]

In this game specifically? I highlighted two of hoopla's posts as 'excellent' and 'hoopla's right' respectively. It wasn't just me who had a pro-town read on her, obviously, but I certainly thought well of her posts.

In general (not specifically from my experience in this game) I agree with the conventional mafia wisdom that pro-town lists provide a good starting point for mafia NKs, especially as we may not have 2 mafias in this game after all. Feel free to disagree with me and tell me why I should provide a townie list.

[Vi]

In this game specifically? I highlighted two of hoopla's posts as 'excellent' and 'hoopla's right' respectively. It wasn't just me who had a pro-town read on her, obviously, but I certainly thought well of her posts.

In general (not specifically from my experience in this game) I agree with the conventional mafia wisdom that pro-town lists provide a good starting point for mafia NKs, especially as we may not have 2 mafias in this game after all. Feel free to disagree with me and tell me why I should provide a townie list.

1) The Mafia can already tell who's unlikely to be suspected without your input
2) People (and I'm notorious for this) do this thing called "change their minds"; i.e. the people you don't suspect today may be the ones you suspect tomorrow
3) It would in this case prove that you actually HAVE stances on people

[roflcopter]

vi, why do you feel the need to bitch at people for joining the wagon YOU ARE ON?

[sigma]

Decent points all. After I make this post, I will be re-reading this thread carefully. Once that's done, I will give you a few town reads on people as well as my scum reads. Sound good?

@Everyone: I pledge to re-read the thread carefully and give the results of my re-read within 24 hours.

[Vi]

vi, why do you feel the need to bitch at people for joining the wagon YOU ARE ON?

future reference mostly
plus i've been in one of my more pleasant moods recently

[roflcopter]

more importantly, why is joining a wagon simply because someone else made a point you agree with a bad thing?

[Xylthixlm]

oooo, I feel like hiphop is doing what I believe is known as flailing.

Cute.

FoS: hiphop

ftw

hiphop needs more actual votes