Mini 868 - Classic Werewolf - GAME OVER

[MrSuave]

I haven't really noticed cruelty honestly. so I'd have to look into it. Are you eager to get a lynch because it's your win if you do Chaco? you seem a little eagar and worried. D=

[Jazzmyn]

I am beginning to think that the "Lynch all Lurkers" is actually a good idea now (in retrospect) and this game is a good example of why. So many lurkers, assured (relatively speaking) that they can do next to nothing in the early part of the game and still survive to the end game, have chosen to lurk up a storm and this is the result. We are now at (I think) LyLo, and at least three of the five remaining players (2 of whom are presumably scum) have lurked their way through the game, and the town is now in a very difficult position because lurking does not allow for strong reads on players.

Thus, lurking without fear of lynching just feeds the scum win condition and harms the town. I don't like this and I will probably start advocating lurker lynches in future games as a result. I am beginning to think that the site as a whole needs a shift of mentality to encourage active posting and to discourage lurking, because lurking with a concomitant policy of not lynching lurkers only serves the scum cause. Better to encourage activity among

all

players and risk an occasional lurker townie lynch than to give the scum full reign to lurk like mad and avoid lynching due to policy; also better to encourage activity among all players and risk an occasional lurker townie lynch than to put the town in a position where scum can NK to keep lurking townies alive in order to sow confusion and doubt in the end game. Plus, advocating for activity rather than rewarding lurking will likely improve the site overall and stop the madness of months-long days and multiple replacements each day. If players get the message that they are required to "post or die" and if that message is reinforced by action, I think it will improve the quality of the games on the site overall, and quite dramatically.

/rant

Okay, now on to specifics.

Cruelty claimed his lurkiness outright (under the guise of other words but the words are disingenuous and his D1 behaviour amounts to nothing more than lurking) but that doesn't excuse him. See players like killa seven and MafiaSSK for other examples of this particular brand of selfishness and blatant anti-town behaviour. I dislike it and always have, and will always call it out for the selfish, anti-town, and pro-scum behaviour that it is.

DraketheFake did nothing but lurk and a look at some of his previous games shows that, as scum, he lurks and makes excuses for not posting and also busses his scumpartners. Nikanor replaced DraketheFake and made several promises to post specific content but did not follow through on many (maybe even most) of them. His most recent posts seem like mostly filler fluff while avoiding posting any real content.

MrSuave has been a non-entity all game due to deliberate lurking and lack of participation, and it appears that he has used that strategy as scum successfully in the past. Lurking to the max. That said, if what MrSuave says about Nikanor is true (although I have no compelling reason to either believe it or disbelieve it at the moment), then it would appear that Nikanor just wanted to keep MrSuave alive long enough to ensure that a Village Idiot (Nikanor's term, not mine) survived long enough so as to be lynched in LyLo or, alternatively, be easily defeated in the end game.

Chaco replaced raid, who was not at all a lurker but was quite active, yet Chaco has refused to post any real content despite his promises to do so when he replaced in, and he has not responded to requests for his insights on the game at all.

So, see what I mean? Five players left, four of whom have either themselves lurked up a storm and/or their predecessor lurked up a storm and got away with it, so what the heck is a town player to do with that? You all look suspicious to me in one way or another, and to bring this full circle, I blame that partially on the apparent policy that suggests that lynching lurkers is a bad idea. As it plays out in a real game rather than at the policy level, it seems quite apparent that the policy is flawed because it helps scum more than it helps town. Thus, the policy should be tweaked at least and abandoned at worst.

/second rant

One more observation, for what it's worth.

I commented earlier on looking at interactions and voting patterns. There is one more voting pattern that I was saving for later (i.e. after I had an opportunity to explore it further and check to make sure that it was accurate) and it is this:

Raid garnered an awful lot of attention on Day 1 (deservedly so) but a review of the votes on him shows that every single one of them was from townies, and not a single vote on him was from scum. If there are 3 scum in this game (as I'm assuming), then it strikes me as very, very unusual for Raid to have garnered not a single scum vote like that unless he is scum himself. Not impossible, of course, but with a wagon like his and with all of the suspicion that he garnered from now known townies, it seems quite unusual that not a single vote from a non-townie was cast for him.

Thoughts, anyone?

Regards,
Jazz

[Nikanor]

Nikanor replaced DraketheFake and made several promises to post specific content but did not follow through on many (maybe even most) of them.

I thought I had posted everything I promised, except for my d3x post. Have I forgotten some?

His most recent posts seem like mostly filler fluff while avoiding posting any real content.

I'm trying to figure out who the scumteam is by looking for connections. There's a reason for why I'm asking the questions I am asking.

Raid garnered an awful lot of attention on Day 1 (deservedly so) but a review of the votes on him shows that every single one of them was from townies, and not a single vote on him was from scum.

Good catch.
Doing an iso and ctrl+f on raid throughout d3x's posts made me see that d3x and raid had a lot of interactions (understandable for two of the most active players). Just glacing through the first few, isos 11 and 14 catch my eye, with 14 being the more substantial of the two.

[MrSuave]

what do you think of my assesment of you mr Nik? and are you trying to seem friendly by saying meaningless things like "Good catch?" I feel veeery suspicious of you right now... veeeeery suspicious...

also, on a side note, because I havn't been hammered for a quick scum win, I'm going to say that my assesment on Chaco to be correct! =D

I'm not scum, therefore he is scum. The End.

Vote: Chaco

I feel safe that he won't be quickly killed because of the fact that he is indeed scum. In the games I've played there have been many times my gut has lead me to the right answer, but I never always followed through, and it cost me. NOT THIS TIME!!! NOT THIS TIME!!!

[stuntkeyboardist]

Day 4 Vote Count

MrSuave - 1 - chaco
chaco -1 - MrSuave

cruelty - 0 -
Nikanor - 0 -
Jazzmyn - 0 -

3 to lynch; 105 hours left

[Nikanor]

are you trying to seem friendly by saying meaningless things like "Good catch?"

It's called teamwork. When two players who think of each other as town band together in their scumhunting, we can get a lot more done than we would have been able to do alone.

what do you think of my assesment of you mr Nik?

I've already commented on that.

[cruelty]

I haven't really noticed cruelty honestly. so I'd have to look into it. Are you eager to get a lynch because it's your win if you do Chaco? you seem a little eagar and worried. D=

All Chaco's vote does is confirm that one of you are mafia.


Jazzmyn screamed shark re: my day 1, like I said she would earlier. I find this interesting.


MrS literally mentioned d3x only once, and even then it was only in a half-assed reply to Nikanor, who asked what he thought about the d3x/Jazz debate.

I haven't really noticed cruelty honestly. so I'd have to look into it.

Hm. This set off alarm bells for me, it's the sort of thing that a town player would notice him saying and possibly use to make a connection between the two of us. Nothing in his play this game suggests he's up to making a subtle play like that, but I can't help but wonder if this is a subtle way to try to implicate me in the event that he goes down.

[MrSuave]

I think your looking into that last quote far too much >_>

[Nikanor]

Mhmm.
I know that I'm town.
I'm pretty positive that Jazzmyn is town.
One of MrSuave and Chaco is scum; it's pretty unlikely both of them are scum.
Since there are two scum, I'd say that no matter which of MrSuave and Chaco are scum, cruelty would be the partner.
@MrSuave & Chaco: Would you be down with a cruelty lynch? Why or why not? Please, nobody else comment on this before MrSuave and Chaco have given their answers.

[MrSuave]

umm... at this point, no because of the great risk. that statement in itself is fairly scummy. it's a trap! why is it a trap? because if you say yes you're going to seem scummy and if you say no it's the same thing. it gets all WIFOMy. I dun like that. I don't like your play right now either. I know that Chaco is scum, because I'm not dead. And I know that he could use the same argument, but I guess it comes down to who you trust. I know I've been one of the lurkers, and I'm sorry. But at least I really havn't made promises that I don't keep... I think anyway. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). so right now, Chaco is scum, and I have a

FoS:Nik

. That is where I stand, and I know I'm right about Chaco.

(Side note, it was a bad play that scum voted first ^_^, silly scum, trix are for kids!)

[Jazzmyn]

Please, nobody else comment on this before MrSuave and Chaco have given their answers.

Okay, I'll wait.

Regards,
Jazz

[MrSuave]

well, all we're waiting on is Mr. Scum aka Chaco. if he doesn't post tonight he's getting prodded

[Nikanor]

Thanks for waiting Jazz, but I've already seen enough to decide for whom I will vote.
I like MrSuave's answer. I'll let Chaco answer, but I'm pretty sure my vote is going to end up on him today.

[Chaco]

If you can win the game by lynching a townie today, then by all means go ahead. It will only peg Suave as scum.

Suave's logic makes zero sense, and is ridden with fallacies.

Dumb or Scum guys, seriously.

Nik,

IGMEOY

...

[Jazzmyn]

Personally, I don't like either of their answers (and I think that Chaco's is worse than MrSuave's) but Nikanor, can you please explain why you were ready to accept MrSuave's response before hearing from Chaco since you specifically asked for both of them to respond?

Regards,
Jazz

[Chaco]

and I think that Chaco's is worse than MrSuave's

Naturally.

[Nikanor]

Personally, I don't like either of their answers (and I think that Chaco's is worse than MrSuave's) but Nikanor, can you please explain why you were ready to accept MrSuave's response before hearing from Chaco since you specifically asked for both of them to respond?

His post gives me warm feelings. Then again, I'm a sucker for Appeal to Emotion (read /in-vitational 2 for scumCojin's AtE and my subsequent falling for it).

[cruelty]

Mhmm.
I know that I'm town.
I'm pretty positive that Jazzmyn is town.
One of MrSuave and Chaco is scum; it's pretty unlikely both of them are scum.
Since there are two scum, I'd say that no matter which of MrSuave and Chaco are scum, cruelty would be the partner.
@MrSuave & Chaco: Would you be down with a cruelty lynch? Why or why not? Please, nobody else comment on this before MrSuave and Chaco have given their answers.

Interesting.

If I also know I'm town then where does that leave us?

Why do you dismiss Jazzmyn as being scum?


I find this recent anti-cruelty sentiment to be a little unsettling, I'm not entirely sure where it came from. Elaborate please.

[Nikanor]

I find this recent anti-cruelty sentiment to be a little unsettling, I'm not entirely sure where it came from. Elaborate please.

I wanted to see if either of them would deflect onto you given the chance. It's too bad they're not planning on making this easy.

[Nikanor]

Why do you dismiss Jazzmyn as being scum?

I don't think Jazz is scum because of her scumhunting and her vote for d3x.

[Chaco]

Bus votes can happen, Nik.

[MrSuave]

yup, and you bickering right now is like 2 scum buddies trying to make the more innocent looking one look innocent! =O the Nik I know would not say that anything I say gives him warm feelings. and even if they did, he would totally just screw me over anyway.

btw chaco, did you just admit to being more scummy than me? O_o uh... what are you saying. is your scum meta obv scum?

[Chaco]

Actually, to be honest, I play more townie when I'm scum and more laid back as town. I said naturally as a bit of sarcasm, nudging at the fact that you're so obv scum it's not even funny.

And, Suave, kick your outside meta out the window. If you're using it to convince people in this game it will not work.

Jazz, is probably town, and is the most townie to me at this point.

Both cruelty and Suave were on Coug's wagon, hmm....watcha fucking know two days back to back!

Nikanor helped lynch D3x along with Jazz, so they're golden to me right now.

Suave's the play.

[MrSuave]

I gave my reason. and my outside meta? I'm assuming you're talking about how I talk about Nik. well weather you believe me or not that's what I think about his play. So far he hasn't been "nice" to me in the two games we've been in together before. I was scum in one, but I was town in the other. he was town in both. this is why it catches my attention when he suddenly says that I give him "warm feelings" >_>. also, all you've given for a defence is that my case is crap, and that I should die. how is that even a rebutle? give me a solid reason, other that "you are scum lol".

[Chaco]

I never uttered the words "lol". Because if I had it would imply that I am laughing out loud, and as you can tell I am not doing so. Never will I utter that.

Also, that meta is worthless. He wasn't nice to you? Believe it or not, not every mafia player on this site is a breath of fresh air. That meta, really is worthless. I find it funny how easily you are manipulated by that. Considering, to me, it was laden with sarcasm. Considering how he called you on AtoE.

Also, rebuttal.