Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[ConfidAnon]

Bah, I (and we) need the answer to this for a couple reasons anyhow.

shoot Vi

Geez Vi is hated . . . and do you have reasons?

Sorry, can't comment much today, not much time.

[Benmage]

I think Ecto is only L-3....everything wants in me wants to just shoot him, or vote right now...i wanna hold off to do this read of him.

Plus Vi's flip will be telling in some random off chances she flips scum i cant imagine this a bus. However i severely doubt this because i think i got a fantastic read on her....but then again have been wrong in the past.

[Benmage]

Amish =/ 8 days is long.

[don_johnson]

not sure if vi's hit. could be only one shot per day for all of us, or not all of us may be able to shoot. let's lynch ecto, let vi die, then someone shoot benmage. that should net us plenty of info and drop someone from each "faction". i like games with mechanics like this because you can move them along. let's not get all lazy and drag this shit out.

[Benmage]

not sure if vi's hit. could be only one shot per day for all of us, or not all of us may be able to shoot. let's lynch ecto, let vi die, then someone shoot benmage. that should net us plenty of info and drop someone from each "faction". i like games with mechanics like this because you can move them along. let's not get all lazy and drag this shit out.

And the reason behind me not shooting you is?

[don_johnson]

you tell me.

[Benmage]

you tell me.

Well im gonna see what rolls with vi. and than kill you.

[don_johnson]

you tell me.

Well im gonna see what rolls with vi. and than kill you.

what do you mean? are you going to kill me depending on her flip? or are you going to kill me regardless?

if she flips scum wouldn't it make more sense to kill Conifd?

if she flips town, wouldn't it make more sense to shoot Ecto?

i am not following you. maybe its because you are full of shit.

if you are going to shoot then go ahead and shoot. stop being such a pussy.

[Benmage]

regardless

[Ectomancer]

lol ok. I'm flat out accusing you of active lurking because you're not actually contributing to the game. Your shot wasted a heal of a power role. If you actually want her dead, make a fucking case. DJ at least explained why he shot Vi.

On that note, why did you shoot Vi?

@Benmage: I'm gonna be in another country; so very away.

Once again someone who makes statements with no backup.

Mischaracterization approaching Vi's level there Amished. Contribution?

Let's see if there is anything directly attributable to Ectomancer.

Pages worth of full attack on Nacho. +++ contribution

Endorsement of VP questioning Ben over his failure to provide reason to

vote, and in fact voted after he said he didnt see anything wrong! +

contribution

Full assessment of Don's actions surrounding his joining the Confid

wagon ++ contribution

Thorough evaluation of Amished's 3rd party speculation ++++

contribution.

Forcing Vi on his nightless gambit and revealing that he had no actual
desire to follow up on this line of thinking. He just wanted to look
(irony here) like he was contributing when in fact he was just trying to
look that way. +++ contribution

So why shoot Vi?

Don shot Vi. - While I protested that it could have been an upfront scum
gambit to bus/shoot a buddy, I think a meteor strike appearing in the
newspaper today about as likely. In this situation, Don is an enigma,
while Vi, Vi is scum. I'll explain why.

Amished with no reasoning suddenly follows scumbag Vi. I think he is
simply backing a buddies play to remove a threat. Establish Vi is scum
before you start following that line of reasoning though.

Some people deserve to be allowed to die. When Vi turns up scum, perhaps our healer might decide to be abit more discerning about who he decides to heal and when. Vi is definitely not obvtown, and claimed vanilla. Why in hell would you heal him?

At least one other question will be answered for me that makes a big difference in how I'll play. Questions to the mod didn't make things clear and I didn't realize exactly how unclear it was until events in game.

[Ectomancer]

All role PMs are out.

Lies.

Vote: hohum

Didn't even random vote. Voted for the mod of all things he could have done. Is that something Vi doesn't think about? Hell no! He knows exactly what he was doing! Look!

The "Random Voting Stage" is a tradition celebrated by Townies who don't want to win and scum that want to burn time until deadline.
The idea behind it is to basically hope that conversation falls out from
it somehow due to the inherent NONrandomness of someone's vote.
By using dice you are not making a nonrandom vote, and therefore doing
nothing to end the useless RVS.
Therefore you are guilty of making the first blatantly anti-Town action in the game and should be wagoned accordingly. Ideally a mod should be able to include some kind of benign conversation starter in the setup.

He did even WORSE than using dice,

he avoided participating in the
rvs at all.

. Also, look at that last line. He states that ideally a
mod should include a benign conversation starter, and then attacks a
player that uses the games flavor as the benign conversation starter.
Total hypocrite in game. This shows he is not posting what he actually
believes.

]Why did his Vote make up your mind?

"hmm, Ecto is being scummy"
Nacho: *vote*
"actually that was a good idea, let's do that"

----

@Nacho: Trim quotes to live. Trim quotes or die. I literally cannot
read that post, and I think I was implicitly accused of something in
there.

---

vi: please explain what's wrong with my six (now seven)
posts? i am still waiting on an answer to my first two questions. is
there something else i should be doing?

Less waiting and more
doing something else while you're waiting comes to mind.

Unvote: Ectomancer
Vote: don_johnson

(L-6)

Voted Ecto and implied there was a reason associated with Nacho's
response, but then we find he was simply wagoning. Then, rather than
support that wagon, he jumps off and votes Don for not contributing. I
guess if you are making a bunch of noise about others contributions,
that means you are contributing? NO.

I like d_j's list, but not because they haven't explained
their RVS votes so much as because they're already flying under the
radar.

Unvote: don_johnson

Let's see, VP Baltar, Sotty7, Amished, maybe ConfidAnon and
PorkExpress... Oh hay, may as well go with the statistically probable
one.

Vote: VP Baltar

(L-6)

Very next post, more vote hopping and no contribution, again.

The ConfidAnon wagon is lame and it has all three of the
people I just listed as good scum candidates on it back-to-back-to-back.
Amished 124 looks like the kind of post I would make to force a weak
wagon on someone.
d_j is also on the wagon but he's playing so badly that I'm less
interested in him.
I like my vote but would freely switch to whichever of VP, Sotty, and
Amished has the largest wagon.
This unfortunately has the side effect of alienating half of my fan club
at once, but etc.

This looks like a slip of revealing inside information. At best his
"scum candidates" are accused of lack of contribution. Yet, he uses a
vote (and a good one) on Confid as

another

reason these people
are scum? Keeping our options wide open arent we Vi?

On Nacho vs. Ectomancer: Nacho reminds me of me. I don't
think he's scum ATM.
Ectomancer can... well, he knows how that sentence ends.

More bias and biasing. "Nacho reminds me of me" buddy buddy buddy and
Ecto can...get after your ass like nobody else will?

[Nacho]

had four votes by page three you had
nothing really to say about that. What do you think about the two wagons
side by side?

I don't mind the Nacho wagon as much tbh. I like
Admiral D3X,

I can go with what Ectomancer is doing

, the jury is
out on PorkchopExpress, and Benmage is already in front of me.
Do you have any solid insight you would like to contribute to the
conversation?

Wait, I thought Ecto wasn't doing anything? Oh, and here we have Vi's
"contribute" word again. Where is Vi's contribution? Oh that's right, he
accuses people of not contributing.

Again, how do you define "scummy
townies"?

People who act scummy, and yet happen to be Town (or
are probably Town).
I have no idea why you think it was too early for that suggestion to be
tossed around.

Unvote: VP Baltar
Vote: Sotty7

(L-6)

Obviously avoiding me where possible.

More vote hopping with no case. Contribution? It's what's lacking.

Deflection how? This is still me not
avoiding you which was your reasoning for voting me in the first place.
So I scum because I have opposite reads to you? I don't buy that. I
disagree with plenty of people but that doesn't make them auto scum in
my book. But it's nice to know how to get on your good side quick (agree
with you at every point)

Well, I

do

like having
followers... :vain:

I'm reading your question about the Nacho wagon as an attempt to steer
the conversation away from the ConfidAnon wagon, which was part of why I
was talking to you in the first place.

Really? Detracting from the Confid that you think is town? Clearly just
slinging mud wherever it will stick.

Vi is neutral to me, which has me
worried. I've been able to read her better in other games than I have
here.

The rapid vote switching and suspecting everyone doesn't seem
like a good setup to the game either.

I'd love for you to elaborate on this, especially considering I don't
suspect "everyone". (although it's true that I don't have much to any
obvious Town reads)
Similarly, listing posts that are scummy without bringing up any
justification neither helps nor convinces anyone.
Why are you so confident - or even

bringing up

- that d3x could
be third party?

I've also an eyebrow to raise about how you jumped on the ConfidAnon
wagon and then off it in favor of the equally large Benmage wagon - each
time for reasons that

just happen

to have already been mentioned
by others.

Several points here. First, I just demonstrated how Vi listed or voted
pretty much everyone. 2nd, Vi brings up the 3rd party

himself

,
yet later uses it to accuse others and

despite never getting an
answer himself to this quite important question he drops it so that he
can accuse based upon "3rd party speculation"

. Another hypocritical
move.

@Vi: I was the first to actually vote
for CA, so good detective work on that one. In that post (93) I also
expressed my wish to vote for Benmage, so this isn't a new development.
At that point, Benmage didn't have a vote on him either.

I would
be more inclined to go along with this if you mentioned anything about
WHY you wanted to vote either of those people at the time.

Really? And where were your reasons for your vote hopping? More
hypocritical non-contribution from our contribution hound.

I was (somewhat) obvious Town.

vi is one of those players that always
reads town imo. only way to know for sure is investigate,vig, etc.

lol, I thought I was acting really scummy in this game - good
for my meta!

Geez, no contradiction there.

Ectomancer: Everyone has a gun. I think that has been made
rather apparent by now.

Oh wouldn't you like us to believe that? Why don't you shoot me then
scumbag? Because you can't? Oh but how convenient to be healed and be
"confirmed" as the townie who wouldnt shoot.

@Vi: If d3x is SK, then he's a threat
to the mafia; and if I can lynch a mafia while also adding another
suspect (or even not) then there's a chance that d3x hits mafia, mafia
goes after the "other" killing role; two anti-town killing roles dead
and three mafia dead in a cycle. Obviously a lot of things have to fall
in place, but it's not outlandish. Mafia has always been my priority.

If we were in LyLo then I would see your point. At the
beginning of the game, getting rid of a night-kill is a priority
(especially since if this game is 8-3-1 that sounds like the setup's
fault).
Further, notice what you're doing -

making excuses to avoid lynching
someone you're calling out for scum

without providing a suitable
alternative that you are as confident in.

Slandering Amished without addressing Amished's point, or really
addressing his reasoning. We are talking about a 3rd party here, and
while they can be lumped into a general "scum" category, the two
certainly are not the same thing.

@Amished: I kind of agree with Ectomancer 309 in that rushing a lynch because my vote's going to go away won't do much good.
I disagree about the extra killing though. It occurs to me that if we don't take the game to Night and there aren't many power roles, we'll be better off democratically choosing who to shoot.

Comments on Ecto's contribution that he supposedly didnt make. Here proposes a nightless game, but then later refuses to pursue it. What did you think of that ruined your gameplan?

That would be a strong implication from my posts...
But I would recommend you hold your fire until there's a decision made on this game going nightless tbh.

Well ok, let's talk about it.

Wait, does that heal actually count? *sets out mod bait*

I didn't like this much when you wrote it Vi. We don't know the number of power roles and cant exactly take a poll. I had planned to wait until your alignment flip to see where your allegiance lies to evaluate the earnestness of the idea, but if you've been healed, I'd like you to re-evaluate this and either elaborate on why it would work for us, or snuff it as not useful.

You don't like anything anyone says except for third party speculation. Or would you rather I die?

Simply put, unless there's a role that gives Town an advantage that outweighs a Mafia night-kill (by which I mean

Cop

) there's no point in

not

killing the day away.
While there is a decent possibility for there to exist a Cop in this setup given the flavor, the number of places left to look for one is getting smaller considering there have been two claims so far, so that Cop is already in heightened danger.

Great, so there is your reason. There's no point in not killing the day away. So why don't we? Let's do it!

It wounds my soul to move my vote from Ectomancer-scum, but I can hop onto an Amished wagon.

Unvote: Ectomancer
Vote: Amished

(L-5)

more vote hopping

PoE is Process of Elimination.

Vote count looks like this.

U. Vote Count

Benmage (L-5) ~ VP Baltar, Nachomamma7
VP Baltar (L-5) ~ Amished, Benmage
Amished (L-5) ~ Sotty7, Vi
Ectomancer (L-5) ~ pwnz, don_johnson
Nachomamma7 (L-6) ~ d3x
don_johnson (L-6) ~ ConfidAnon
pwnz (L-6) ~ Ectomancer

Not Voting: PorkchopExpress

This? More lack of contribution while "contributing" with a vote count.

blah blah blah blah

no comment necessary that I haven't said a couple of dozen times already

Way to avoid actually responding.

*messes up the vote count*

Unvote: Amished
Vote: Ectomancer

(L-4)

MORE vote hopping ffs.

Hypocrisy goes here.

Clearly you didnt understand post 360, nor bother to read 370...But hell i'll indulge you...What about 367 stuck out as particularly good, suddenly so convincing you want to vote me?

Yea, I've read the thread. 360 doesn't do anything for me. Coasting is just as much a scumtell as it is a lazy towntell. *waits for ben to bring up meta* And meta on it's own isn't a case.

I brought up meta...you playing this game?

If you're talking about your case on VP Baltar - and if you're not, oh well - then you absolutely

did

bring up meta.

With that said, meta itself

can

make up a case.
In addition, while "lazy Townies" coast, they're also the ones that hurt less if mislynched.

Completely crap response just making noise. Hello? Ben just said he brought up meta? He certainly didnt deny it, so why does Vi need to respond as though he did? Noise and fluff and trying to look busy, that's it.

No summary required. Vi should have been allowed to die for all the reasons above.

[don_johnson]

I'm a sissy.

[Ectomancer]

not sure if vi's hit. could be only one shot per day for all of us, or not all of us may be able to shoot. let's lynch ecto, let vi die, then someone shoot benmage. that should net us plenty of info and drop someone from each "faction". i like games with mechanics like this because you can move them along. let's not get all lazy and drag this shit out.

Exactly, plus other mechnics questions you aren't asking or would even know to ask.

you tell me.

Well im gonna see what rolls with vi. and than kill you.

what do you mean? are you going to kill me depending on her flip? or are you going to kill me regardless?

if she flips scum wouldn't it make more sense to kill Conifd?

if she flips town, wouldn't it make more sense to shoot Ecto?

i am not following you. maybe its because you are full of shit.

if you are going to shoot then go ahead and shoot. stop being such a pussy.

Good questions and demand.

regardless

Ummm yeah. Explain your regardless reasoning. The whole point of shooting Vi is to determine alignment and utilize that information along with other information we will get from this. If you intended to shoot Don regardless, why didn't you shoot him already?

[Ectomancer]

I'll go ahead and give the question to one other answer. I'm a retired soldier. I fought against the Indians and now I'm trying to settle down peacefully in this little town except Vi and his buddies has other plans. I'm shooting Vi for all the reasons above,

plus

to dispel the notion that the mod revealed alignement in his flavor of Vi being shot. I don't expect to miss, and I don't expect to simply wound him either.

[Amished]

I read your {ecto's} first post, and about 3 sections of your 2nd; and I see at least 3 glaring mistakes.

Also, vote-hopping is not inherently scummy. Provide motivation more than picking up on the surface if you're gonna convince anybody.

@Benmage: Yeah, I know 8 days is a long time; that's why I wanted to warn Hohum/Mitey sooner rather than later (this snuck up on me, time flew waiting to travel ). I'll be around til I leave at least.

Random question: Ecto, why didn't you bring any of this up when I was voting Vi before DJ shot him? Why now instead of you seeing she's more widely read?

Also, I have confidence in Benmage to not shoot dj mostly cause of in game flavor. I'm pretty sure that just slipped his mind (I've seen Ben forget some little things from time to time).

[Benmage]

Also, I have confidence in Benmage to not shoot dj mostly cause of in game flavor. I'm pretty sure that just slipped his mind (I've seen Ben forget some little things from time to time).

Indeed, but if its me or him, its him whose dying. And the dudes tunneled for no apparent reason for quite some time.

[Ectomancer]

I read your {ecto's} first post, and about 3 sections of your 2nd; and I see at least 3 glaring mistakes.

Also, vote-hopping is not inherently scummy. Provide motivation more than picking up on the surface if you're gonna convince anybody.

I don't care what you have to say until you've read everything. I have noted that you interupted your read to hurry over and post a strawman to defend your buddy though. Why the rush, rather than finish the read and post a proper reply? Better to sling mud on it first ehh?

Random question: Ecto, why didn't you bring any of this up when I was voting Vi before DJ shot him? Why now instead of you seeing she's more widely read?

Also, I have confidence in Benmage to not shoot dj mostly cause of in game flavor. I'm pretty sure that just slipped his mind (I've seen Ben forget some little things from time to time).

Why would I reveal my case to Vi until I had enough of one to lynch? I'm not trying to alter Vi's behaviour, which is what you do when you don't like what someone is doing. You vote them, warn them about the nasty behavior and wait for them to change or not. I'm not interested in getting scum to change their play.

[don_johnson]

Also, I have confidence in Benmage to not shoot dj mostly cause of in game flavor. I'm pretty sure that just slipped his mind (I've seen Ben forget some little things from time to time).

Indeed, but if its me or him, its him whose dying. And the dudes tunneled for no apparent reason for quite some time.

tunneling? please explain. i have "attacked" four different players and implicated two others. how is that "tunneling"?

unvote

[Benmage]

@Ecto i want to see what happens the flip...if the kill goes into night. I dont know. Whats wrong with waiting?

Plus he has slipped my mind. I dont really want to kill him, but i sure as hell aint gonna let him kill me. He could single handily lose this game.

[Benmage]

Also, I have confidence in Benmage to not shoot dj mostly cause of in game flavor. I'm pretty sure that just slipped his mind (I've seen Ben forget some little things from time to time).

Indeed, but if its me or him, its him whose dying. And the dudes tunneled for no apparent reason for quite some time.

tunneling? please explain. i have "attacked" four different players and implicated two others. how is that "tunneling"?

unvote

tunneled me. what were ur reasonings for wanting to kill me again?

[Ectomancer]

Also, I have confidence in Benmage to not shoot dj mostly cause of in game flavor. I'm pretty sure that just slipped his mind (I've seen Ben forget some little things from time to time).

Indeed, but if its me or him, its him whose dying. And the dudes tunneled for no apparent reason for quite some time.

Well he already shot twice and is out of bullets (at least for today), so he certainly cant shoot you. Your vote is somewhere else, so you don't look to be lynching him. What are you going to do? Wait until tomorrow when he could get another bullet to shoot you? If you don't care about the reveal, then why wait, especially if you are concerned that it could take us to night?

What I'm saying is your actions don't seem to match your convictions, and by waiting you're just gauging the town's reactions to your statement to Don. So either you meant it, and were just taunting Don when you could have waited (what purpose did that serve if his response didnt matter?) So...I can only assume you said it to decide whether town would approve or not. Why do you care? If he's scum, shoot him!

[Benmage]

I've given my reasoning.

[don_johnson]

tunneled me. what were ur reasonings for wanting to kill me again?

again: i have attacked several players besides you. how is that "tunneling"? i.e. what have i done that qualifies as "tunneling"? voting you because i thought you were scum? shooting you? or was it shooting vi and voting ecto? or was it me accusing vp baltar of being scum?

the accusation of "tunneling" is a complete mischaracterization of my play.

as for the second question, we already went over this. not sure what benefit you see in bringing it up again. perhaps you are trying to distract town from the fact that you have threatened(repeatedly) to shoot me, but don't seem to have the bullets or the cajones. ecto's 445 is chock full of good thinking.

[Benmage]

ecto's 445 is chock full of good thinking.

I think ecto is scum...there were other people i wanted to shoot over you. Namely VPB. So i didnt want to waste my bullets...

I havent given you much thought these past few days..i knew you wanted to shoot me, voted me etc...but other things made me forget about this.

I cant go in tomorrow knowing you're just gonna shoot me.

tunneling was a misstatement...i wanted more an idea on your unwavering position on me, and why you still are so zealous to shoot me. So please answer that.

[don_johnson]

tunneling was a misstatement...i wanted more an idea on your unwavering position on me, and why you still are so zealous to shoot me. So please answer that.

i was unaware that i was exhibiting the trait of "zealousness". you have done nothing to convince me that you are not scum. hence my position that you are most likely scum. did i say i was going to shoot you tomorrow?

ecto has posted some thought provoking material recently and has also taken a position regarding vi(by shooting). this reads as possible town to me. i await vi's flip, i think we should go to night phase at some point to clarify game mechanics and give possible power roles a chance to work, and as of now i am okay with lynching you to get there. do you have any other specific questions?